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[BBC] In China, Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony
- Thread starter Deleted member 5028
- Start date
Gaming sites are trailer aggregators and press release coverers. They aren't actually journalistic outlets.
Just our monthly reminder that the global economy is built on the back of slave labor. Strong economies built on slaves seems to be a constant in human history. Which is especially sad now as we have the technology to eliminate most manual labor and greed keeps us from doing it. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
It's literally the opposite. China is poised to take over the power vacuum both economically and militarily the USA is going to leave as it's corrupt government and climate change cause it's continued withdrawal from world influence and eventual collapse mid century. Corporations are already breaking their backs to please China, it's buying power is too big for a capitalistic corporation to ignire. China is already using economics to slowly take control of large portions of Africa and the developing world as their loans basically make the country's subservient out of debt obligations to them. It's going to be the global super power by mid century and it's human rights abuses will be forgotten as they will write the history books going forward.
It's literally the opposite. China is poised to take over the power vacuum both economically and militarily the USA is going to leave as it's corrupt government and climate change cause it's continued withdrawal from world influence and eventual collapse mid century. Corporations are already breaking their backs to please China, it's buying power is too big for a capitalistic corporation to ignire. China is already using economics to slowly take control of large portions of Africa and the developing world as their loans basically make the country's subservient out of debt obligations to them. It's going to be the global super power by mid century and it's human rights abuses will be forgotten as they will write the history books going forward.
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I'm not sure that I see things unfolding as you do. Yes, if I'm a world leader I certainly have less faith in the US than I did 5 years ago but I'm unconvinced that will move countries like Europe, Japan and Australia to embrace China instead. Their values are quite different than the CCP's. China, I think, was on a smarter path until a few years ago. As they've become more assertive in converting their soft-power into hard power they have managed to piss off most of their neighbors and even their ventures into developing countries have begun to rankle people. China will also be hit hard by a demographic problem as their population gets older and they don't have enough young people to sustain an elderly population without negative effects. Given the size of China's population I think it's ultimately only a matter of time before they become the preeminent world power but I'd be surprised if it's before 2050.
User Banned (Permanent): Downplaying human rights violations.
I am a chinese and I feel sad to see such post at a gaming forum. I use Youtube,Twitter everyday and believe it or not, this is where I see that news first. I haven't see any major gaming media report on this yet, I just feel a bit of odd.
I don't want to and I don't think you all will believe what I say, but I have ethnic minority friends in Xinjiang (not Uighurs), they sure live a good life. You can say that I am brainwashed or something, I can say some of you are brainwashed by the western media too, but such argument is pointless right? To me, this report shows some of the Uighur come to Guangdong, Hubei or anyother part of the China to find a job and get themsleves paid it sure can be depicted as some Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands. I briefly looked the news, they say those factories is like prison, to be honest, any major labor-intensive manufacture factory is like prison in china.
Even though you dont belive what I said, think about this: why the chinese government risk moving thounds of uighars to thousands miles away rather than build factory in Xinjiang? Dude, the chinese government is so foolish!
I dont really care what mindset you guys held and what are you thinking, but if you truely care or just curios about what hapened in china or xinjiang, you should come and see for yourself.
I don't want to and I don't think you all will believe what I say, but I have ethnic minority friends in Xinjiang (not Uighurs), they sure live a good life. You can say that I am brainwashed or something, I can say some of you are brainwashed by the western media too, but such argument is pointless right? To me, this report shows some of the Uighur come to Guangdong, Hubei or anyother part of the China to find a job and get themsleves paid it sure can be depicted as some Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands. I briefly looked the news, they say those factories is like prison, to be honest, any major labor-intensive manufacture factory is like prison in china.
Even though you dont belive what I said, think about this: why the chinese government risk moving thounds of uighars to thousands miles away rather than build factory in Xinjiang? Dude, the chinese government is so foolish!
I dont really care what mindset you guys held and what are you thinking, but if you truely care or just curios about what hapened in china or xinjiang, you should come and see for yourself.
I understand that you're Chinese and may have "first-hand?" view of the situation, but we have video documentaries (this is the one I've seen) showing how Xinjiang has all of these cameras and police surveillance, and the local folks are scared stiff to even talk about what's going on.
Now, you are right in that 99% of us (hell, maybe even everyone in the thread so far) haven't exactly been in these places and seen how things are with our own eyes in the camps/schools/what have you. But I feel that what we have is more than reputable enough to show that this is no facade. And besides, if we can't believe them, who do we believe? The Chinese government that seemingly has a history of covering themselves to make it look like they've done nothing wrong? Doesn't exactly sound like a source I'd trust.
I'm a much more calm person and willing to calmly say what I feel instead of just shouting the inevitable "fuck you" you're going to receive from others, so just a heads up on that. Be glad I was the first to comment. It won't be pretty from here on out.
I've been following this thread and just wanted to say thank you for your calm.
Whilst there's alot questionable about KiwiW's post, this highlights something that I've always been uncomfortably conscious of. Gaming brings me so much joy and I love new tech, but undeniably I am part of a system which is treating people in incredibly inhumane ways. I don't know how to resolve this outside of simply dropping gaming as a hobby. But why stop there - should I refuse to use a mobile phone, a computer, my headphones? My mind goes in circles and I feel powerless yet complicit.
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Well, if you are living in China chances of seeing this news on Twitter or youtube are even slimmer cause those mediums only use algorithm that cater to your interests. With the recent news shows Chinese governments trying to cover up and dismiss coronavirus outbreak thus they're not the trustworthy news source what's really going on if you want to learn what really is happening.
About not having factories in the region make sense they wouldn't want to do any kind of investment untill they totally cleanse the area. Also it is much more convenient for big companies to turn blind eye to this issue and it is easier to erase the traces. So no backlash or boycott to hold them responsible. See Nintendo's non-reply.
Also no, factories shouldn't be like prisons. I wouldnt wish the same conditions to the Chinese citizens either. But this is not about how the factories build like. It is about "workers" that "graduate" from "re-education" camps are not allowed to leave the factory. That's not employment that's slavery.
At least you are thinking of questions and answers. I assume you're in good faith and knowing the power of propaganda I can see how you come to these conclusions. You're having an Uyghur friend doesn't prove anything since there is a such thing called model minority.
Also dont get it personal, this is about Chinese governments wrong doings and human rights violations. This thread is not about targeting Chinese citizens or culture.
Well you dont have ro quit gaming or buying necessary thing for your livelihood. But you can be loud why you don't upgrade immidiately and also buy second hand. Or choose brands who are not involved. When you are in a shop ask if it is from China if so tell them what's going on and why you dont wanna buy such product. Choose products from Vietnam or any other country. That's a big help.
Ask Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Samsung, Asus, LG whoever on the list to come clean and you dont want to support human rights violations.
I'm sure Nintendo who sued leakers in lightning fast fashion is more than capable to make sure their contractors are not using slave labour. If they can do it for Pokemon they can definitely do it for avoiding slave labour.
Fact is industrial labour culture in China is absurd even outside of forced labour situations such as this. This has been well documented in the past (see example below) and has consistently failed to gain traction as far as international attention goes.
Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city
In an extract from his new book, Brian Merchant reveals how he gained access to Longhua, the vast complex where iPhones are made and where, in 2010, unhappy workers started killing themselves
www.theguardian.com
A bunch of stories like this popped up throughout 2017. 2018 was Apple's strongest year ever. That's just one example. We (the collective "western civilization" we) clearly don't care. It's infuriating, really.
Look into how your cat's food is made some day (by slaves on fishing boats) or how our plastic recycling is burnt as fuel to make tofu by poor Indonesians. Our entire system is built on human suffering borne by the backs of developing nations. It gets real dark real fast.
That's the core problem.
China is just one cog in the machine of slavery production. Even if we waved a magic wand and ended China's slavery labor, well there's the billion others to go.
The solution is not in front of us, but in the future. The current world leaders and company owners that were raised and lived by these very ancient ideals that can basically be summed up as "money is power, fuck whoever stands in your way to get that money and power".
The solution is to teach the current and upcoming generation. Our children, our children's children. These children will one day grow to become the future world leaders and company owners that will be born and raised by modern progressive ideals that actually realizes that actions have consequences and that money isn't everything. These new leaders will takeover the old and will (hopefully) use their knowledge to help heal the world and put an end to all of this suffering. It won't happen overnight, it won't even happen in the next decade or two (a bit but not enough), but it will take a long, slow, steady process that we can only help grow and nurture as it eventually blossoms into a brighter future for the entire planet and for all that inhabit it.
I wish I shared your optimism, but nothing about China's growth has inspired me to expect anything but continual abuse of human rights for profit :(
So...still nothing from major gaming sites. Not even a mention or reply from ERA's beloved journalist?
People like to feel good and role play things like "if only we'd have known at the time" we would have saved them - then other people go hey - look, it's happening, right now. Some will shrug, some will defend it. I don't know how you fix it. I'm happy to pay more money for things - electronics in this case (or pay more for animal meat, but that's a tangent). If it means humans and living things can be treated with dignity. But too many people just do not care. Value is placed on the product and not how it got to your door. It's why boycotts work. But you can't boycott a cause you don't know exists. Enter media silence -
I'm not a big fan of the site, but I'm pretty sure NintendoLife covered the story, so there's that st the very least.
More like self-interested PRs. No. There were multiple tweets notifying but zero response. Shame.
Many websites have email contacts or forms for story tips. I'd encourage everybody to use them - send the original BBC article or another credible source.
Can't they vote for it like it happened in Catalonia? It is really easy to say "HK should be free", but you have to hear all of its citizens before that. There is a strong sentiment of community and just a small portion of chinese people wants to become independent.
Aside from most of your both posts being exactly parroting the words of Chinese authorities and the state down to "poverty alleviating initiatives" and JAQing off, I don't think you've read the leaked internal documents of how the internment camps are run and how oppressive they are in physical and social control. While you're banned, spend the time to educate yourself on the leaked 400 pages detailing internment/concentration camps:
China Cables: Who Are the Uighurs and Why Mass Detention? - ICIJ
To better explain China’s actions and the findings of the China Cables, we answer some key questions about who is involved, the crackdown’s origins, and the significance of the secret documents.www.icij.org
‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions of Muslims (Published 2019)
More than 400 pages of internal Chinese documents provide an unprecedented inside look at the crackdown on ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region.www.nytimes.com
Data leak details China's 'brainwashing system' - BBC News
Leaked documents show new evidence of China's systematic brainwashing of Uighur and other detainees.www.google.co.uk
Here's a testimony of a Uyghur woman Mihrigul Tursun to USA Congress (while pro-govt propaganda sources like CGTN try to say she's fake news):
Here's a few documentaries on how the labour programs work, how the Muslims are targeted, and the surveillance systems through undercover reporting:
Thank you for this post. It will help to educate people like me who are criminally uninformed as well.
China isn't a proper democracy so they can't vote even if they want to. The Chinese government wants as much land as it can get.
I wouldn't hold my breath for the government that has a dictator for life, massacred its people in Tianenman Square, and goes to extreme lengths to suppress and control information shared with its people (leading to the type of BS posts we saw twice on this page) to allow people a free and honest vote.
Changing your supply chain is a far different than an investigation by legal. It's a significant risk to challenge China on this, and unfortunately I doubt they or anyone else has the balls, even collectively.
I live in a "proper democracy" and I get to "try" to pick a new president every 4 years. That's all I can vote for.
:_)
Also police tortures reported by the ONU. The democracy we live in, it's a joke.
The problem with these discussions is how people tend to see the democracy situation as a binary thing.
There's no such thing as "democracies", and "not democracies" (which you'll notice is always "we" are a democracy, whereas "they" aren't, how convenient ...)
There are simply varying degrees of democracy. Even the worst dictatorship has some minimal amount of "democracy", or else the population would mount a revolt against the dictator (which usually happens at some point, pointing towards the fact that in the end there is always a minimal amount of power in the people). And what we usually call "democracies" (US, UK, France, Germany, etc) are actually low degrees democracies. They may be higher degrees democracies than most other countries, but are still low degrees democracies. When all the power the people of these countries have is to vote for representatives once every few years, they don't have a lot of power (the representatives have, the media have, etc, but not so much the people).
This has bothered me a bit. I'm not. I don't agree with what was said at all, but I learned alot by reading the comment and the responses to it. Would have been interesting to see that conversation continue.
Do you really think an account like KiwiK with that post being their very first since joining in Feb 2019 was going to have a good faith discussion of his pro-CPC propaganda and justifying the atrocities against Muslims? What is missing from this conversation, more JAQing off, attention gaining, and dog-piling?
Muslims (and really anyone who cares about human rights abuses and atrocities) shouldn't have to be subjected to reading such posts because some people may find it educational to see them rebutted. It's pretty privileged to suggest otherwise.
I've emailed/tweeted almost all the big sites and sadly not one of them has responded. It doesn't seem like the posters here who tagged Schreier had any luck either (I doubt he's that busy if he has enough time to argue with twitter trolls)
Clearly this is something they'd rather ignore, so I hope this thread can remain pinned indefinitely.
Yeah it is dissappointing to see those people willingly ignoring news about the camps and "graduated" slaves are exploited like they're not human and in E3 cancellation I see people refer to ghe as journalist. *SMH*
We remember the jewish, romani and homosexual victims of holocaust so we can stop this; camps and cages in China and USA ( cages they still hold immigrant kids in). What's the point of remembering past occurence if we are going to ignore new ones?
We remember the jewish, romani and homosexual victims of holocaust so we can stop this; camps and cages in China and USA ( cages they still hold immigrant kids in). What's the point of remembering past occurence if we are going to ignore new ones?
Would emailing Microsoft,Sony and Nintendo help? Is there anything we can do that can get the message out?
Yeah, at this point it's pretty clear that they simply don't care at all.
The US is considering a bill to limit imports from that area:
www.pbs.org
I'm sure some of its supporters will be on board due to disliking the country but others will be supporting it for more noble reasons.
U.S. report finds widespread forced Uighur labor in China
U.S. lawmakers are pushing for a ban on exports from an area of northwest China following a report that found widespread use of forced labor.
www.pbs.org
They were bending over themselves to report on Blizzard's HK shithousing. Even this place blew up over that with multiple threads. It really is remarkable looking at how differently things have gone between that and this.
Anything would help. I would suggest emailing. Don't listen to the enablers and defeatist. Remember once Microsoft had halt and change all plans for online only anti-consumer console.
Boycotts, backlashes (which has a ground and doesnt come from a hate movement)almost always works. Make some noise.
I don't know how the discussion would have went. We never got to see!
I'm very passionate about human rights abuses and atrocities, hence wanting to discuss them - I quite disagree. But I understand wanting to create a safe space, particularly since this is a gaming and entertainment forum.
Agree 100%. It can feel hopeless, but let's do what we can.