BTW, hat fighting style is Jean Claude using in that movie, btw? Karate, I guess? It's been 20 years since I saw that. Bolo rules.
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BBC: Final Test of a Shaolin Warrior Monk
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
- Start date
BTW, hat fighting style is Jean Claude using in that movie, btw? Karate, I guess? It's been 20 years since I saw that. Bolo rules.
For sure, but let's be real, I'm fairly certain all those Ancient Secret Art disciplines are bullshit.
I personally seriously doubt there was a secret ancient way to punch people only a handful of monks in bum fuck wherever managed to figure out.
But hey, if you pay them they will teach you their ancient ways. No, not all the secrets at once, one must take many paid lessons before they can learn the secret punch.
OP
OP
Hollywood has embellished the history for sure but I wouldnt go as far as to call it bullshit. I'm sure if I trained on top of a mountain for 11 years I would be a badass at whatever I was focused on.
I was there and I don't know, it felt mall ninja as all fuck.
I know there are people here who have been to China, so surely they know how you see pictures of let's say Zhangjiajie, and it's all OMG avatar, and you go there, and it's still pretty as fuck, but there is also an elevator, and escalator, a ton of shops selling t-shirts and a million tour groups with flags and megaphones.
That place is the same.
Like, you can buy a kung fu lessons. To learn the sacred ancient arts you must prove yourself to be pure of heart and that you have some money.
They come and do some flips and twirl some swords around on a schedule, and like, they're athletes no doubt, but I donno, they look more like acrobats than... what are they supposed to be again?
People who discovered a super great way to punch people and the best way they are utilizing it is getting money from Chinese tourists?
And again, FWIW, 100% of the Chinese amateur boxers and MMA people I met thought those guys are clowns who are scamming tourists. And they would talk about that shit A LOT.
Shaolin Monks are entertainers and acrobats at this point. I worked with a troupe of them for several years and they won't deny this. In fact this was a purposeful shift for them to continue to exist in a modernizing and homogenizing China. Their worth as entertainers is far more valuable than as warriors even if they still train in a similar fashion to their long since passed predecessors.
I have seen no compelling historic evidence that at any point in history monks in this or other monasteries were terribly effective fighting force.
And they may say they're entertainers to you, but they still charge money for kung fu lessons, and they sell those week long adventure packages for regional sales managers who just get their promotion, where the lodging is hilariously awful but it's okay because SpArTaN mOnAsTeRy.
I donno, maybe I'm really just so racist I can't see past my hate for China, maybe I shilled too hard and now it's like overflowed? but like, is there someone who been there and think it's not a tourist trap?
Seems like an ostentatious thing to do. These monks don't learn martial arts to go out and see how many asses they can beat.
There are a whole bunch of Chinese MMA people online who go around and try and show off shaolin and kung fu masters, and while yeah, it can sometime be a bit gross seeing someone who know how to punch people punch someone that doesn't, it's important to remember that most of those people do make claims about the effectiveness of their teachings.
I mean even in the video they say it's mostly done for discipline and spiritual reasons now more than actual combat. I'm sure this guy could easily mop up someone like me or any other average civilian but they aren't exactly trained to efficiently defeat people either tho.
Profiting off white dudes looking for some stuff to post on their IG. I fuck with the vision.
Listen, on that angle, I am with you, though like all touristy places in China, it's mostly Chinese tourists, which is why my friends hate them.
Though I believe it's mostly white people who are dumb enough to pay a lot of money to sleep on the ground with no wifi for a week.
Are you implying that these teachings won't be effective in most normal day to day scenarios? That there's nothing to be learned from using these techniques? If somebody undertakes a 1 week shao lin temple stay what are they really expecting to get out of it? I don't think they are going to march in to the nearest MMA gym and start throwing down. It's a cultural experience, maybe they'll learn a couple of useful things. Maybe it will start someone on a worthwhile path of self improvement.
Does it really matter if these aren't lethal and effective forms of martial arts? Are they really presenting themselves as the best fighters? Even if they are largely useless disciplines, would you prefer they die out? Going and beating people up for successful marketing seems pathetic to me.
It's hilarious cuz what are you really learning in a week outside of getting a taste of some CULTURE BRO
I'm not implying anything, I'm saying that a lot of my Chinese friends told me those guys at shaolin are pretty much scamming tourists, and I went there and what I saw seemed to be pretty consistent with that.
I fully accept that I might have just not understand something, but like, I would probably need something a tad concrete to make me reevaluate my not isolated experience (wudan shan is pretty much the same, only there you get to make wu tang clan jokes, so it is better. the mountain is also prettier, I say go there instead).
Enjoyable video. Thanks, OP. The dedication it takes to excel as a Shaolin monk is really something.
Good enough to open a kung fu gym at a strip mall.
There they can impart the ignorant west the gift of oriental spirituality and why standing with a horse stance is not asking to get kicked in the balls.
Oh I think a lot of them are basically scamming tourists for sure, but I don't see a problem there. It's not something like homeopathy where I'm willing to make a claim that the entire industry is a scam. There are clearly people who are quite serious about this and pursuing it as a way of life. Their revenue is mostly through entertainment, and they are open about it. If you invalidate the entire practice, it's likely to die out and we miss out on entertaining videos like the one in the OP.
It's so weird to me that of all the things in China, this is the thing the board decide to stan for and give all the benefits of the doubt.
They burned that place down during the cultural revolution, it's a national park now, all the temples were rebuilt using government money, there is literally a party member running that place. This is the thing that ya'll gonna go "well yeah, if China says so it must be true".
And like can't you see why they do it?
It's a BBC story about China that isn't negative, also [kung fu flute] we didn't kill Buddhist monks in the 60s, now watch those happy Buddhists do flips!
Don't get me wrong, I like The Last Dragon as much as the next person, maybe even more, but even as this board official paid China shill, I can't defend that crap.
I'm not "stanning" for China. I'm just saying you don't acquire skills like this without signifcant training and dedication. That can be true AND everything you've said true at the same time. No need to look at this as an all or nothing scenario.
But this all started because someone came in claiming MMA fighters could beat these guys up (true but not really relevant).
Have you been there?
Have you talked to anyone that been there?
Is it based on anything other than really wanting to believe that Kung Fu is real and because China said so?
I can only tell you about my experience.
You know what, let's forget Shaolin for a second, let's start with just normal, non dragon kick China.
You go to every overly-touristy mountain in china (and boy there are a lot of them) there is usually some temple they swear was built in the 12th century, but you read about it and it was burned down 7 times since, with the most recent one usually in 1966. In most places periodically some people come out dressed in some traditional clothes and wave some swords, and the Chinese tourists take photos of them.
And I don't know what to tell you, Shaolin felt exactly like that to me, and if there's something more special about that place other than that some Hong Kongers who never been to the mainland made some movies about it, I would really like to know.
And seriously, this board think everything is Chinese propaganda, but a bunch of buddhist monks doing flips happily and professing an unbroken historical chain of martial art history, in a government run national park no less is not even a little bit of a "here during the cultural revolution nothing happened"?
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I have seen no compelling historic evidence that at any point in history monks in this or other monasteries were terribly effective fighting force.
And they may say they're entertainers to you, but they still charge money for kung fu lessons, and they sell those week long adventure packages for regional sales managers who just get their promotion, where the lodging is hilariously awful but it's okay because SpArTaN mOnAsTeRy.
I donno, maybe I'm really just so racist I can't see past my hate for China, maybe I shilled too hard and now it's like overflowed? but like, is there someone who been there and think it's not a tourist trap?
To be straight you just come off like an ass in this thread who isn't ever gonna be satisfied by anything anyone says on the subject.
How did this thread end up discussing tourist traps and shit like that?
Amazing video OP, thanks for sharing.
Also this.
Amazing video OP, thanks for sharing.
Also this.
Well of course an egomanical MMA fighter would say that.
The soft master will always win against the hard master. A real deal master of Taiji Chuan, BauGuazhan, Xing Yi Quan will bounce any hard art proponet, like a ball, up and down the yard all day long.
Only true in bizzaro world
Taiji Chuan
BauGuazhan
Xing Yi Quan
There are literally hundreds of these videos on Youtube. Even a low ranked Lethwei, Muay Thai or MMA fighter will wreck these 'masters'. I love kung fu movies, I grew up with Jackie Chan. But let's be real, it's acrobatics. Still takes a lot of dedication, work and sportsmanship tho.
Yeah chess players stand no chance against MMA fighters either.
Or Nurses.
Because they aren't trained in MMA. This guy vs 90% of the population tho, that isn't trained in MMA (Maybe like you?) What would the outcome be...? I mean if he was deranged and wanted a fight.
Your thoughts?
If they trained in MMA, they'd likely do well. But, its a weird comment considering, they dont.
Thats like saying Connor Mcgregor could destroy a boxer..
Oh..
wait.
Yeah but whats their post count compared to ours?!
It's all martial arts tho so it's fair to compare. What do nurses and chess players have to do with martial arts?
Lol. Let me guess, the videos above don't count because in a sport context the soft master can't bend fingers/poke eyes/nerve strike/six palm exploding heart technique/kamehameha/spirit bomb?
MMA is mixed martial arts. A person that isn't trained in multiple martial arts is generally at a disadvantage as someone that is trained in Mixed Martial arts.
Its two different specialities. I also said a mma fighter in boxing.
This is just splitting hairs but ok, Muay Thai vs Kung Fu then. Comparing the effectiveness of two martial art forms is valid. No matter which style it's always about fighting and winning.
Oh really ? Have you watched the young Donnie Yen in action ? He is not just an action star, he is a true martial artist, his mum is a grandmaster in many form of martial art, he might not he the best MMA fighter but he did put 7 triad members in the hospital for assaulting him and his gf in the early 1990s in Hong Kong.
Well, I'm going to be honest with you, my guy: I don't think that story is true. I don't think it's reasonable to believe one relatively lightweight man beat up 7 (8) men adept and experienced at violence by himself at the same time. However, I suppose stranger things have happened, theoretically. What's your source, and do they provide proof? If the answer to the former question is "a pop culture gossip site" and "none" to the latter question, I'm going to have to go on believing that this never happened, and no event remotely close to this has ever happened in Donnie Yen's life. I do enjoy his movies, though.
EDIT: As expected, I got ghosted.
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It is wild to me that you can't post cooking video from China without people say it's a government propaganda, but when it comes to Shaolin, anything but accepting the farcical version of events the CPC is telling is unacceptable.
For real, do you think I'm wrong based on anything other than some Kung Fu movies?
Those things are not based on true event, you know?
And those 70s movies that made shaolin famous in the west were made by people who have never even been there.
Because you said they look like staged acrobats and I confirmed from first hand conversations from several Shaolin monks I worked with for nearly 2 years straight that they would agree with you and you instead just diverted, without wasting a beat, into the historical usefulness of Shaolin martial arts. Then you go into a weird tangent about Chinese propaganda with no prompting on my end and are still going on about for whatever reason. You sound like you just want to argue and continue to come off like an ass as I said earlier. I'm done with your obsessive weirdness about this subject.
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Like, do you think anything I say is wrong or just think my tone is too harsh?
Again, it's weird to me that shitting about everything china seem to be almost encouraged here, but shaolin is the one holy cow you must never talk ill about.
And really, if any of you would have been there you'd understand how silly that all it, to my untrained white eyes that place looked way more like touristy historical recreation thing than a place where people train to be martial artists. Again, maybe I miss something, maybe there is really an ancient martial arts tradition that teach people moves that are suspiciously similar to Olympic gymnastics, I don't know, but you keep calling me an ass is probably not make me see the error of my ways.
Dude I agreed with you and so would a lot of monks on the staged nature of things and that it's for entertainment. What else do you want to hear? Your huge hate boner for this is truly bizarre.
I was just trying to provide my personal experience from being there, which I think is quite different than the image painted by the BBC.
You called me an ass for that.
I'm still not sure why.
Because you ignored my point, and continue to do so, to go on an unrelated rant with what now seems like some very unsavory overtones. As I said you're looking for an argument where there wasn't one which to me is the behavior of an ass.
You really don't engage with anything I said, so let me try again -
I think you think those acrobats represents at least in part, an old way of life and some old historical traditions. I think the BBC video push that POV and I think a lot of people in this thread think that too. I do not believe that's the case, at all, maybe I'm wrong, but I no one is trying to engage me on the substance here, not even you.
Like, do you think it's an unimportant point that the video in the OP paints a really weird and wrong picture of that place?
And if I'm just wrong that's fine, I've been wrong on bigger issues, but I don't think my problem is that I wasn't called an ass enough times.
This is specifically a performance routine, and he likely would have been able to do that staff technique fairly quickly at his level of skill and athleticism. I think the framing of all of this is bullshit from a reality standpoint. It's entertainment.
As for the MMA stuff, a lot of those Shaolin guys aren't much different than Yi Long or other sanda fighters. They're going to usually be at a higher level of fighting ability than the guys Xu chooses to go after lol.
The Shaolin Temple is a mixed bag. A great deal of it is Colonial Williamsburg reenactment stuff, and very touristy. The traditional Shaolin martial arts practiced there was cobbled together from nearby townspeople who still practiced some version of Shaolin wushu, and from other outside sources. Before renovation started following Jet Li's famous Shaolin Temple film, there were only a couple old monks there, (a caretaker, an acting abbot, and a cook).
To give legitimacy to the new Shaolin Temple, the government found an old monk (Hai Deng) around Emei Mountain in Chengdu who practiced some Shaolin-Emei style offshoot. I'm thinking they found a few other rather elderly martial artist monks and brought them in, if I remember correctly.