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Bayonetta 1 - janky and not as good as I remember
- Thread starter SpokkX
- Start date
I played through it on U in early 2015 and still loved it as much as I did five years earlier.
My copy just arrived in the post and I'm unsure what one to play. I'm thinking about not even using the B1 code so I can sell it on for more, if I decide to sell it!
My copy just arrived in the post and I'm unsure what one to play. I'm thinking about not even using the B1 code so I can sell it on for more, if I decide to sell it!
I agree OP, especially the jankyness and ridiculous camera. Tried getting into this game several times, it's just not happening. I also don't get the hard on many people have for this Kyama guy (sorry not sure how he's called). He's probably a nice guy in real life, but his internet presence is disgusting and toxic.
I don't really like speculating about how Itsuno will surpass the Bayonettas, not only because they're distinctly different games but because even his games are held back tremendously by their design. Kamiya is occasionally spotty with it himself, granted, but comparatively speaking, design often ends up being Itsuno's Achilles heel. DMC4's combat system makes DMC3 look dated without it's lack of style switching but conversely DMC4 is way too thinly spread on account of it's levels not accommodating the characters, especially in DMC4SE. If the DMCV rumors are true about the character count and the way it's designed I'm a little concerned in this regard, not so much that he won't provide good combat mechanics (it's really the one area where Itsuno can rival Kamiya) but that the levels won't measure up for it.
That question was already answered by Ninja Gaiden II a couple of years ago.
If we are talking about combat system, Itsuno already surpassed Bayonetta with DMC4SE.
The real test will be DMC V, DMC4 was held back thanks to the new engine and development trouble.
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I liked both for different reasons. Bayo 1 had a better story, combat was a little deeper, it was more challanging. Bayo 2 had the better art direction/vivid colours, more focus on bosses and less on levels, combat was a little more fun for picking up and playing.
Both games are expceptional in my eyes, it wouldnt feel right to try put down one to praise the other
Both games are expceptional in my eyes, it wouldnt feel right to try put down one to praise the other
Well it's still one of my favorite action games of all time but I do think the second had some significant improvements. I just find the first one a bit more frustrating overall.
I'd rate the first one 9.5 and second 10
I'd rate the first one 9.5 and second 10
His internet presence is a model of greatness, if people take offence with it they need to come back down to reality and stop trying to hold every single person on the internet as a model of forced human perfectionism. He causes no harm.
On topic, dear god Bayonetta one is so much harder than I remember. Having a whale of a time getting Pure Platinums on 2 on normal, and with Bayo one I'm getting stones and bronzes like no bodies business. (Kind of wish they'd added Amiibo support to one like they did for two for easy Halo gets to get all the unlockables - I might have actually been able to get them all for once D;)
ill agree with the above.
far has combat system is held on its own, dmc 4 se> bayo 1 > bayo 2.
i found bayo had some of the least interesting combos and weapons for a game that good with its combat. enemies and bosses also turn into gigantic damage sponges.
i still like it more than bayo 1 as a whole tho, bayo 1 had great combat and unlockables but was terrible at pretty much everything else(imo).
dmc4 se hands down has combat that easily trounces bayo 1 and dmc3, but the levels are absolutely awful.
between the two id put my money on dmc v having better combat.
far has combat system is held on its own, dmc 4 se> bayo 1 > bayo 2.
i found bayo had some of the least interesting combos and weapons for a game that good with its combat. enemies and bosses also turn into gigantic damage sponges.
i still like it more than bayo 1 as a whole tho, bayo 1 had great combat and unlockables but was terrible at pretty much everything else(imo).
dmc4 se hands down has combat that easily trounces bayo 1 and dmc3, but the levels are absolutely awful.
between the two id put my money on dmc v having better combat.
I do believe DMC4's combat still stands the test of time and I can accept the argument that DMC4's combat system is still the best on the market. But again that's not what I'm worried about, DMC3 was still the much better game in spite of it's comparatively inferior combat because the general design of the game was much better built to support it. My favorite Kamiya action game is Viewtiful Joe, and despite the game having nowhere near the combat complexity of current era contemporaries and even Kamiya's own games, it's mostly the razor sharp core and structure that keeps me coming back to it. It's by that similar token I still consider the two Bayonettas to be better games than DMC4, though perhaps only on par with DMC3. At the end of the day that's what I'm most worried about, because Itsuno's DMC games usually have to make some kind of blatant concession for their qualities, and if the rumors about DMCV having three playable characters, a more open world and occasional Musou-level enemy encounters (though not exactly an alien concept considering the LDK difficulty option) are true, it's a pretty bold leap that makes me a little worried (but still hopeful) about the game's consistency. But hopefully, third time's the charm.
Truthfully I wish DMC4SE used the time it spent making Trish and Lady into making a few new levels instead, because I can't say I find those characters all that great compared to Dante, Nero and Vergil. I really hope their style of play isn't indicative of the alleged third playable character in DMCV.
For me, the only thing that's remotely bothersome about Bayonetta is the 720p resolution, but even then, it looks ace on the Switch's screen.
Interesting to see such passionate individual preferences among the two games in the series. I, uh, really, really like them both.
EDIT:
Yeah, this too. I obviously can't blame the original game for lacking this feature, but I misunderstood and thought the Switch version would have amiibo compatibility for halos (like Bayonetta 2). I've already done my grinding on other consoles, so it would have been a really welcome feature.
Interesting to see such passionate individual preferences among the two games in the series. I, uh, really, really like them both.
EDIT:
Yeah, this too. I obviously can't blame the original game for lacking this feature, but I misunderstood and thought the Switch version would have amiibo compatibility for halos (like Bayonetta 2). I've already done my grinding on other consoles, so it would have been a really welcome feature.
OP, you are completely correct with every problem you listed in your post. Thing is, it is the best game in the genre regardless of those issues. That's how good the good parts of Bayo 1 are. I will say that playing it on PC with almost non-existent load times helps alleviate much of the tedium.
I loved Bayo 1, but after playing Bayo 2, feels like a worse game. For me, Bayo 2 improved all errors Bayo 1 has: no annoying QTEs, less gimnick levels (and easier to control), witch time improved,...
IMO Bayo 2 improves the experience of Bayo 1. Both great games.
IMO Bayo 2 improves the experience of Bayo 1. Both great games.
Yes, I feel the same. At the time Bayonetta was amazing and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I then played 2 and could see a big step up, before going back to 1 and realising that the gap was bigger than I had thought.
Both fantastic games, but two is far better in terms of gameplay and pacing.
Both fantastic games, but two is far better in terms of gameplay and pacing.
Yes, I agree. Bayonetta 1 and Dark Souls 1 were my number one games last gen, but...
it took me some time to realize that PG are really really bad at pacing. They're king at coming up with a great core gameplay but then they ruin it
by taking you away from it either through stupid mini-games, set-piece boss-battles, cut-scense. Bayonetta 2 is not a big improvement in this regard because 40% of the bosses strip you away from half of your move-set.
It's quite revealing that I spent most of my time in Bayonetta 1 in the hidden survival mode stage.
MGR a game that was already short had that stupid sewer level, W101 had tons of shitty mini games...yeah my honemoon phase with PG has been over for some time now.
PG should do 15€-20€ loot based games that revolve only around combat. Ditch story and all the other stuff.
it took me some time to realize that PG are really really bad at pacing. They're king at coming up with a great core gameplay but then they ruin it
by taking you away from it either through stupid mini-games, set-piece boss-battles, cut-scense. Bayonetta 2 is not a big improvement in this regard because 40% of the bosses strip you away from half of your move-set.
It's quite revealing that I spent most of my time in Bayonetta 1 in the hidden survival mode stage.
MGR a game that was already short had that stupid sewer level, W101 had tons of shitty mini games...yeah my honemoon phase with PG has been over for some time now.
PG should do 15€-20€ loot based games that revolve only around combat. Ditch story and all the other stuff.
These are the only two points I really agree with. I still think it's a fantastic game. I think Bayo2 is definitely more polished but I also remember it being slightly easier. At least on the standard difficulty.
I just hope Kamya doesn't listen to "fans" for Bayo 3. They already did with Bayo 2 and we got an inferior game.
I think more people are turned off by the bike and rocket levels than thought they were enjoyable.
The spectacle saves the majority of the gimmicky bullshit youre ranked on. With how harsh rankings are in 1 its very demoralizing for a player.
The spectacle saves the majority of the gimmicky bullshit youre ranked on. With how harsh rankings are in 1 its very demoralizing for a player.
Compared to the first game, they basically chopped off the hardest difficulty and added an extra easy mode. This is prob my biggest complaint about the game.
The boss fighters were some of the best parts of the game.
Do we even know if Kamiya is working on this one? Anyway consedering Bayonetta 2 was significantly better then 1 to me, hopefull they do continue to listen to fans then as it seemed to work out well for them.
I love how you put fans in quotes as if hardcore Bayo 1 players are the only true ones.
I expect Bayo 3 to continue in Bayo 2's foosteps and I can't wait.
OP
OP
Feels like I need to comment after finishing Bayonetta 2
It fixes all my issues with B2 with ease
Besides my "issues" it also just looks a generation ahead of B2. I barley notice it is only 720p in docked mode - could pass for o PS4 game imo
Also the pacing is just perfect - RE4 class here
I understand some people say the battlesystem in B1 is deeper. This is perhaps true but B2 is WAY more fun and therefore better in my book.
Overall - what a masterpiece. One of the most improved seques ever imo, up there with Uncharted 1 -> 2 and ZOE 1 -> 2
It fixes all my issues with B2 with ease
- Camera is really janky and frankly quite bad. Misses focus on bosses and action constantly
- The game is too fast - sometimes it is really hard to make out what is happening unlike in for example other action games such as Nier, Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. Perhaps I am getting old but damn I cant keep up
- It is really badly paced with constant cutscenes that break up the action like an old Kojima game
- Instant death QTE-events.. yeah
- Reuse of assets. The first 5-6 levels are pretty much reused in different forms in about 50% of the levels
- Just bad boss battles. Seriously they are really confusing, stones break, you fall down on to be picked up by the boss and this is "good" since you can now damage the boss.
- Gimmick levels such as motorbike and flying are really undercooked
Besides my "issues" it also just looks a generation ahead of B2. I barley notice it is only 720p in docked mode - could pass for o PS4 game imo
Also the pacing is just perfect - RE4 class here
I understand some people say the battlesystem in B1 is deeper. This is perhaps true but B2 is WAY more fun and therefore better in my book.
Overall - what a masterpiece. One of the most improved seques ever imo, up there with Uncharted 1 -> 2 and ZOE 1 -> 2
I don't remember fans asking for nerfed Wicked Weaves and a lame Devil Trigger knock-off. I remember fans asking for less bullshit and more action, and B2 delivered that in spades.
- Camera is really janky and frankly quite bad. Misses focus on bosses and action constantly
- The game is too fast - sometimes it is really hard to make out what is happening unlike in for example other action games such as Nier, Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. Perhaps I am getting old but damn I cant keep up
- It is really badly paced with constant cutscenes that break up the action like an old Kojima game
- Instant death QTE-events.. yeah
- Reuse of assets. The first 5-6 levels are pretty much reused in different forms in about 50% of the levels
- Just bad boss battles. Seriously they are really confusing, stones break, you fall down on to be picked up by the boss and this is "good" since you can now damage the boss.
- Gimmick levels such as motorbike and flying are really undercooked
3 new characters with unique movesets, Vergil is so fun to play.
I'd definitely say that for the time, Bayonetta was worth seeing through all these faults. Now... It's still more than worth looking past the faults IMO, you just need to be patient.
I'd definitely agree with everything in the OP though. I'm just enjoying the game in spite of all that. Really excited to get through it so I can play 2 for the first time.
I'd definitely agree with everything in the OP though. I'm just enjoying the game in spite of all that. Really excited to get through it so I can play 2 for the first time.
I replayed it very recently, I still think it was great. Could be my nostalgia blindfold.
The angel section felt a bit slow though, especially with the background music.
The angel section felt a bit slow though, especially with the background music.
I'd never played Bayonetta until the Switch release and decided I'd play through 1 before playing 2, some parts have been really enjoyable and wacky and others have made me want to snap my Switch in half.
I look forward to finishing it (and never having to play it again) and moving onto Bayonetta 2 though.
Maybe I just need to git-gud.
I look forward to finishing it (and never having to play it again) and moving onto Bayonetta 2 though.
Maybe I just need to git-gud.
Ehhh playing 1 for the first time and hardly enjoying myself. Was gonna power through to get to the second game but might not bother now.
If this is 'the best action game ever made' then perhaps the genre is just not for me :(
If this is 'the best action game ever made' then perhaps the genre is just not for me :(
Its my first time playing and the constant lenghty cutscenes are really burning me out - the story isn't interesting and the dialogue is so damn cheesy, tempted to skip through them but don't want to be lost for the sequel, assuming its much better in that regard.
Ive reached chapter 11 on bayonetta 2, realised I had the discount on eshop and bought bayonetta 1 for a tenner. Its still great even compared to 2.
I can defintly see the extra fluidity and polish in the second game, and I prefer the slightly less wacky stuff in the cutscenes. 2 is way better but 1 is still awesome.
I can defintly see the extra fluidity and polish in the second game, and I prefer the slightly less wacky stuff in the cutscenes. 2 is way better but 1 is still awesome.
Interesting seeing how series vets are experiencing the game.
I'm playing Bayo 1 for the first time ever (haven't played 2 either). I'm 4 chapters in and so far really enjoying it. The visuals look kinda dated, but aside from that, loving the insane and hilarious cutscenes. I also enjoy QTEs but I'm a weirdo. My only complaint is that the fast paced action feels overwhelming at times, but I figured I just need to git gud.
I'm playing Bayo 1 for the first time ever (haven't played 2 either). I'm 4 chapters in and so far really enjoying it. The visuals look kinda dated, but aside from that, loving the insane and hilarious cutscenes. I also enjoy QTEs but I'm a weirdo. My only complaint is that the fast paced action feels overwhelming at times, but I figured I just need to git gud.
Try the second one. It's much more fun right from the start. Also has a much more colorful and interesting world.
Y'all are crazy. I replayed Bayonetta when the PC port came out and found it to still be amazing. Everyone always talks about the crazy set piece moments but I always loved the quieter parts of Bayonetta 1 as well. Most of the parts in Paradise are like that with just exploration and combat sequences mixed together and beautiful music playing. Love the game.
The sequel is also amazing but for different reasons. Once it gets going it doesn't stop and it has so many amazing boss fights that are more rival fight styled. The Inferno parts are incredible.
The sequel is also amazing but for different reasons. Once it gets going it doesn't stop and it has so many amazing boss fights that are more rival fight styled. The Inferno parts are incredible.
I'll take your word for it and keep slogging on...
I really love the character and the ridiculousness of the set-pieces but it seems the game constantly goes out of its way to constantly halt any momentum/fun. The fact 2 has less gimmicks is immediately promising.
Bayo 2 is masterfully paced. It's also easier on Normal, and more empowering thanks to Umbran Climax. The basic attacks also feel more fluid and flashy, with a stronger sense of feedback. All of this, combined with fewer/better genre shifts, and no cheap deaths, means the whole game flows better.
The difficulty spikes are the most unforgivable part, for me. At the Jeanne fight in chapter 12 and it's just a miserable experience. Unacceptably difficult for "normal" mode. The fact that witch time just doesn't work sometimes feels artificial as fuck too.
The first game really is much worse than I remember.
The first game really is much worse than I remember.
You just have to learn the fight. DMC1, DMC3, Ninja Gaiden Black, and pretty much any good character action game won't let you breeze through the game without learning the enemies in the game. Techniques like Dodge Offset really, really help with Jeanne, so you can think of her as a skill check, similar to how many of Metal Gear Rising's bosses make sure you've learnt a technique before you can beat them (such as parrying). It is forcing you to improve, and it's not an unfair boss, so eventually once you learn her you'll be able to beat her easily.
Also, Normal difficulty is the highest difficulty available from the start. If you wanted a difficulty you could breeze through, there's Easy.
You can only get Witch Time on Jeanne from her Wicked Weaves. So just shoot her with Scarborough Fair and Kilgore (Kilgore are very effective against her and pretty much everything in the game), Dodge Offsetting along the way to get your Wicked Weaves out, and get Witch Time when she does her Weaves if you can.
A fair challenge shouldn't be a criticism. It's just part of the package with this awesome genre of games.
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As usual, Dante is a wise and cool guy. You never disappoint us, Son of Sparda. :D
I literally just finished playing it on Wii U to gear up for Bayo 2. It is still a GREAT game, but there were certainly more issues than I remember. I definitely fought with the camera a bit, especially when it can't keep up with fast fights (like vs. Jeanne), it starts to re-use bosses way too quickly as fodder, the gimmick levels are a bit wonky (but I actually dig Route 666, even if I did clip through the road at several points), and the QTEs can be rough. It's also way harder than I remember, I died more than I'd like to admit.
Despite that, I still love it. I'd say the final climax is still one of the most memorable sequences I've played, and the music is amazing. Bayo and Jeanne are super-fun characters, so I'm glad we're getting a whole trilogy now.
Despite that, I still love it. I'd say the final climax is still one of the most memorable sequences I've played, and the music is amazing. Bayo and Jeanne are super-fun characters, so I'm glad we're getting a whole trilogy now.
i love Bayo more than most here but, absolutely nothing compares to the magnificence that is the most perfect hand in action games
Fun fact I actually posted in the OT a while back that the one thing I think I loved the most about DMC4 was the Devil Bringer and that Bayonetta would've been perfect with something like it - which was when I realized that Kulshedra, a weapon I was very ambivalent about when using it years ago, kind of fills several of those niches for me.i love Bayo more than most here but, absolutely nothing compares to the magnificence that is the most perfect hand in action games
It ain't perfect but with enough luck I hope Bayonetta 3 includes something even more like it.