I really wanna get these games on my Switch sense I never played them before is this digital only tho for the US? Because ya boy running out of space and don't wanna buy a SD card just yet.
I really wanna get these games on my Switch sense I never played them before is this digital only tho for the US? Because ya boy running out of space and don't wanna buy a SD card just yet.
I really wanna get these games on my Switch sense I never played them before is this digital only tho for the US? Because ya boy running out of space and don't wanna buy a SD card just yet.
Bayo 2 is way more inviting to new players/people who just want to blow through the game once or twice hence it's higher scores. I think it just comes down to what you want from the experience. Most people enjoy the spectacle and fast pacing of the sequel but scorechasers seem to overwhelmingly prefer Bayo 1. Nothing wrong with either side but I just don't expect a big outlet like IGN to compare them on that level, they gotta meet deadlines and review the next thing.
The crux of the issue for me is how all the things they broke about the first game aren't actually what makes Bayonetta 2 more inviting for new players. You can have an accessible game without alienating hardcore players, but the fact that Bayo 2's problems aren't talked about anywhere is hardly gonna incentivize Platinum to change their approach to this stuff. We're so used to mainstream reviews being basic and surface-level, but as far as I'm concerned, we SHOULD expect at least some of them to examine the mechanics more closely. I'm so tired of reading reviews describing combat in any given title as "fluid," "fast-paced," "deliberate," "challenging," etc, when none of that stuff actually means anything. Is it really so much to ask for more in-depth mechanical analyses in mainstream reviews?
The crux of the issue for me is how all the things they broke about the first game aren't actually what makes Bayonetta 2 more inviting for new players. You can have an accessible game without alienating hardcore players, but the fact that Bayo 2's problems aren't talked about anywhere is hardly gonna incentivize Platinum to change their approach to this stuff. We're so used to mainstream reviews being basic and surface-level, but as far as I'm concerned, we SHOULD expect at least some of them to examine the mechanics more closely. I'm so tired of reading reviews describing combat in any given title as "fluid," "fast-paced," "deliberate," "challenging," etc, when none of that stuff actually means anything. Is it really so much to ask for more in-depth mechanical analyses in mainstream reviews?
In this thread you're takin about panther offset and dodge offset and shit that 90% played this game never used, or is ever fully explained in the game. Do you honestly expect a game journalist to write that down? Somebody who plays hundreds of games a year to go hmm the decay for combo counter is different from bayonetta 1 that I played a couple times 4 years ago
The crux of the issue for me is how all the things they broke about the first game aren't actually what makes Bayonetta 2 more inviting for new players. You can have an accessible game without alienating hardcore players, but the fact that Bayo 2's problems aren't talked about anywhere is hardly gonna incentivize Platinum to change their approach to this stuff. We're so used to mainstream reviews being basic and surface-level, but as far as I'm concerned, we SHOULD expect at least some of them to examine the mechanics more closely. I'm so tired of reading reviews describing combat in any given title as "fluid," "fast-paced," "deliberate," "challenging," etc, when none of that stuff actually means anything. Is it really so much to ask for more in-depth mechanical analyses in mainstream reviews?
Yes, this is absolutely too much to ask from the vast majority of reviewers. Most reviewers aren't hardcore character action players and neither is their audience.
Not trying to be rude, but get over yourself man.
You know the majority of reviewers and players never explore the mechanical depth of games, but they are free to review the game how they played it.
At the end of the day if you care about mechanical depth, its up to you to talk about it.
Kind of? You're asking for months of work, research, and reflection to be sunk into something by someone who has to play and write dozens upon dozens of these per year.
It's not like you see shot-for-shot analyses of cinematography choices in movie reviews, or book reviews that dig into the meat of how an author uses individual plot beats to create emotions in the reader.
They're reviews. They're summaries of overall impressions. What you want is much more akin to film theory analysis and in-depth literary analysis. Those are not typically written for a mainstream audience, and you're never going to see them in mainstream venues.
Just to let you know: Bayo 1 is on 360/PS3/PC, Bayo 2 is WiiU/Switch and Bayo 3 will be Switch exclusive. Nintendo funded 2 and 3 so there's no chance of them being on other consoles or PC.
Never played either and was really looking to get the Wii U version just to play but got this instead. Glad to see there is even a little improvement over the Wii U version. Buying the disc versions of both would probably have cost close to the same as what I'm paying for the Switch versions of both.
Just realized I'd be quadruple dipping and not triple dipping if I bought the Switch version. I legit forgot how many copies of Bayo I already own. lol
I got 360, Wii U, and PC. At one point I even considered getting the PS3 port when my 360 died.
Last year the way my orders were handled was extremely disappointing, to the point where I unsubbed from Prime in December last year. Mostly everything arrived late and their delivery estimates were off, most of my games arrived at the very last date of the estimate or 1 day late, which was very frustrating especially during hype releases.
Just a note, you buy one title digitally and you get a discount for the other, which would round up to $60 if you get both. So getting Bayonetta 2 means you get Bayonetta 1 for just $10.
Seems to be sold out on Amazon UK. I wonder if this is a sign of the game selling well on its new platform, or Amazon have a low amount of stock for it.
The crux of the issue for me is how all the things they broke about the first game aren't actually what makes Bayonetta 2 more inviting for new players. You can have an accessible game without alienating hardcore players, but the fact that Bayo 2's problems aren't talked about anywhere is hardly gonna incentivize Platinum to change their approach to this stuff. We're so used to mainstream reviews being basic and surface-level, but as far as I'm concerned, we SHOULD expect at least some of them to examine the mechanics more closely. I'm so tired of reading reviews describing combat in any given title as "fluid," "fast-paced," "deliberate," "challenging," etc, when none of that stuff actually means anything. Is it really so much to ask for more in-depth mechanical analyses in mainstream reviews?
Yeah, kinda, if not DMC 4 would have been the highest reviewed game of all time , topping Ocarina of Time and all SOULS games.
Overall experience most critics had with Bayonetta 2 was very positive, thus the high scores.
I kind of wish they had dropped portable resolution a little to hit 60fps. Native will undoubtedly look gorgeous, but Zelda still looked great undocked in towns with 90% scaling on each axis. Bayonetta's fast paced action would make those drops even less noticeable. Adding a dynamic resolution scaler was probably far outside the scope of the port though, and I guess whoever did it just preferred the clean look of native resolution. I long for the day when graphics settings become commonplace on consoles. It would have been nice just to have more options both docked and undocked.
This release is really taking me for a ride. Went from preordering physical, to wanting to cancel, and now wanting both digitally. I'm trying to use the missed out on MyNintendo coins to keep myself away, but that's a pretty flimsy excuse.
I think the Switch release may finally motivate me to play one of these games for more than a couple hours. I got the first one on the 360 but shortly after they announced 1 and 2 coming to the Wii U so I wound up selling it and waiting for that version. Played the games on Wii U a bit but just never got around to playing it much (enjoyed what I played I just never really liked playing games with the Wii U tablet and never got around to getting a gamepad) and wound up selling it as well. With the portable factor on the Switch I can see myself finally giving it a fair shake this time. Plus I don't have a backlog on the Switch (yet) so that's more motivation to finish the game when I get it.
Seems to be sold out on Amazon UK. I wonder if this is a sign of the game selling well on its new platform, or Amazon have a low amount of stock for it.
unoillnino of ResetEra says: "Bayonetta 2 is one of the greatest games of all time, standing next to classics like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time. 10/10"
The crux of the issue for me is how all the things they broke about the first game aren't actually what makes Bayonetta 2 more inviting for new players. You can have an accessible game without alienating hardcore players, but the fact that Bayo 2's problems aren't talked about anywhere is hardly gonna incentivize Platinum to change their approach to this stuff. We're so used to mainstream reviews being basic and surface-level, but as far as I'm concerned, we SHOULD expect at least some of them to examine the mechanics more closely. I'm so tired of reading reviews describing combat in any given title as "fluid," "fast-paced," "deliberate," "challenging," etc, when none of that stuff actually means anything. Is it really so much to ask for more in-depth mechanical analyses in mainstream reviews?
Look, I'm with you here (and this is usually what I think of reviews of platformers or strategy games, which are what I know), but the reality is that reviewers in the general enthusiast rags are dabblers by the nature of their profession, and the vast majority of them aren't good enough at anything to grasp what being good at a game is even like, or what kind of observational acuity or mindset that provides you with.
The kind of specifics you're talking about absolutely deserve to be raised by people who know how to play, know what the hell they're talking about, and know how to communicate it well. In fact, that's the kind of content I'd much to prefer to read as an above-average but inexpert player; sometimes it's the expert perspective that enriches my understanding of a game (as was memorably the case with W101). And I know better than to find it in reviews, which is why I don't read any of them in genres that I'm confident reviewers don't understand as well as I do. For a specialist player, review scores are essentially just a sanity check for things that are extremely buggy or content-light, and should never be taken as a reliable measure of depth or difficulty.
Frankly, I've always been surprised that the Bayonetta games review this well at all. They're quite poor at the superficial, easy-to-write-about level of surface storytelling (not that reviewers know how to gauge that either—cf. the scores for BioShock Infinite), and button-mashers are in for a terrible time because these are games of finesse that are all about resisting the urge to button-mash as you get caught up in the fireworks and the rhythm. What their warm reception among lay-players tells you is that the entry-level experience is fun, accessible, and involving, and that everybody knows the overt spectacle is pretty cool.
On the flipside, though, I think it's a fair complaint that reviewers tend to be woefully unspecific about nuances of combat systems that are entirely within the reach of average players. There are some readily observable reasons that Bayonetta 2 really is a more accessible game, and you don't need to dig deep to find them. I was looking over my notes on the first two games (from the old place) earlier today to refresh my memory, so I'll just plagiarize myself and quote my own impressions of the middle difficulties on my first runs in 2014.
On Bayonetta 1 (written before I played 2):
QuixoticNeutral said:
Curiously, compared to W101 I get the impression that expert-level play is far more approachable in Bayonetta because the Wicked Weave combos come so naturally, while I made it through all of my first Normal run in W101 without ever really understanding how to use Wonderful Rising/Stinger/etc., manage battery levels, or use the Team Attack for stuns and throws. But what W101 does quite a lot better is provide a gentle curve for mid-level play, where you can flub combos or poke the enemies in spurts but still deal a reasonable amount of damage and survive a fight with good weapon choices or by reading the enemy well. In Bayonetta, when I am doing well I do exceptionally well, and Pure Platinum medals rain from the sky—but when I am doing poorly the enemies completely take me apart and there isn't much opportunity to recover, especially if my magic is depleted and I'm facing enemies like Gracious and Glorious where I can't rely on Witch Time to let me get some hits in and build momentum again.
In every mechanical respect Bayonetta 2 is the more polished game. I can't think of a single clunker of a verse that I dread going through a second time when running for Platinum medals. Everything is just so crisp: the improved butterfly hover and camera in the double jump that makes the occasional platform jumping that much more tolerable; the length, pacing, and responsiveness of the vehicle sections; the tying of chapter clear-time medals to verses alone so as to encourage exploration in exquisite environments that, while linear, feel less like corridors; the binding of enemy weapons to the special-attack button such that they can be used in tandem with your other moves; the clarity of your arsenal's animations that make their diverse strengths, weaknesses, and combo timings intuitive within a minute of trying them out in the practice room; the presence of a practice room. It's Bayonetta sans frustration.
[...] Bat Within is purchasable from the start, hearts are easier to accumulate as Muspelheim portals are mostly right along the main path, and, as I only fully realized after completing the game and reading this thread, taking damage does not chip away at your magic power. That last change is a critical and welcome one, as one of the problems I had with the first game was the gulf between fighting well and fighting poorly: in the more difficult encounters, if you got off to a rocky start there wasn't much opportunity to recover.
I did voice some reservations about how Bayonetta 2 has a kind of "flat" progression that runs out of new styles of challenges somewhat early, since the arenas are mostly just arenas and don't introduce quite the same range of stage-specific mechanics as the first game, but that's beside the point. My point is that reviewers really should be picking up on this stuff, at least, and it doesn't require mastery of the various offset/combo interactions, deep understanding of the scoring system, or anything else that might give B1 a higher ceiling at the expert level. It's not hard to pick out specific reasons why B2 comes off as more "fluid", instead of just asserting that it is. And if I wanted to hear about the expert level, certainly I'd never go to them.
It's not like you see shot-for-shot analyses of cinematography choices in movie reviews, or book reviews that dig into the meat of how an author uses individual plot beats to create emotions in the reader.
Which is fair, but also an accurate illustration of why, as someone who gets fairly deep into books and films, I don't read mainstream consumer-advice reviews there either. To me, they're worthless—I'd much rather read criticism of the kind you've specified, where I might actually have a chance of learning something—but even I have to begrudgingly concede they aren't as worthless to everyone else. In the end, as a member of the audience, you know what kind of critical writing is actually useful for your purposes. General-audience reviews exhaust their purpose quickly for anyone who isn't just as much of a dabbler as the reviewers are. As such, the fixation on review scores on boards like this one has always seemed odd to me—we're the players with the least use for review scores—but I've come to realize they get attention for the same reason as sales threads: we're only here to cheer on the games that we want to see do well. A 90 for Bayonetta may not be terribly informed, but it will move more units of Bayonetta, and if your independent evaluation is that these games are superb (which in this case would be a correct evaluation), this is good news.
But I think it's valid, if you're a player who thinks a series is going in a different direction than you'd like and is being rewarded for it by reviewers and/or sales, to worry that future sequels won't swerve back to the direction you preferred. And I want to hear more from those who understand Bayonetta's systems better than I do, regardless of whether their sense of which game is better than the other lines up with my own.
Last year the way my orders were handled was extremely disappointing, to the point where I unsubbed from Prime in December last year. Mostly everything arrived late and their delivery estimates were off, most of my games arrived at the very last date of the estimate or 1 day late, which was very frustrating especially during hype releases.
Yep, all those complaints from previous Wii U owners were just completely baseless. There's absolutely nothing to be disappointed about no matter how you use your Switch. It's a perfect port and every owner of a Wii U copy should plop down $60 regardless of financial strain rather than more logically making purchase decisions. /s
Yep, all those complaints from previous Wii U owners were just completely baseless. There's absolutely nothing to be disappointed about no matter how you use your Switch. It's a perfect port and every owner of a Wii U copy should plop down $60 regardless of financial strain rather than more logically making purchase decisions. /s
