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medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,440
I mean it's kind of obvious, all the original media showed off women soldiers because that's part of the game, and then suddenly they just stopped. Even the launch trailer of the game which was post-initial backlash. But now all of the big trailers for Firestorm, Pacific and now Wake Island have been men only.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
I thought Jungle Carbine was on the naughty list? It is literally the only weapon that I can eyeball as the popular tool of my own deaths. Does it still kill with a one-bullet headshot and two-bullets bodyshots?

That weapon was a sniper for Medics without the optics.
It is better than most sniper rifles if you can headshot but it's not very effective at extreme range. It and the Tromboncino are similar guns and I perform about the same with both, only the jungle carbine has more ammo and a slightly longer range that can make a big difference.

They are tricky to use because you need to get in close but they require more skill than most weapons and are fun to use. This patch has made them more viable though since they already were super viable before, even though every 'stat analyser' would tell you that bolt actions were out for the count pre-patch. These range nerfs should make carbines easier to use for the average player as you will be safer further out though as exposed as before in CQC, just as any strong headshot weapon is affected.

I am a bit dissapointed that the Jungle Carbine has invalidated the tromboncino though, I think that gun is the most fun to use. I feel it could use a balance pass that either:

1) switch the one hit HS ranges, trombone at 100 and Jungle at 75 meters. I'd use the Trombone.

2) Nerf Jungle RoF, make machined bolt bring it up to the current base RoF (lower than the Trombone), I might use the Trombone. The Jungle would probably feel bad though (unless you upgrade RoF).

Right now the jungle is better at both headshots and body shots, so there's no reason to use the Trombone which is a shame.
 
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Mr Eric

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,141
Played a few games yesterday (on X) and "couldn't fetch report" EVERY... SINGLE...MATCH

How is this even possible ??? It happened once in a while before, but yesterday it was systematic. how can such a thing pass any test ???

Also regarding the TTK, I just don't like it. Not that it's completely game breaking like some say, but it's just feels less fun than before when you have to empty a full mag to kill a guy passed 10m (of course taht's hyperbole but you get the idea). My main problem would be the medic who's left with potato launchers whatever the distance is. I really don't think this will help any noob to enjoy the game, but I can clearly see why a huge part of the community isn't happy with it (from slightly unhappy like me to really pissed of depending on what class/weapon you usually like most).
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
It is better than most sniper rifles if you can headshot but it's not very effective at extreme range. It and the Tromboncino are similar guns and I perform about the same with both, only the jungle carbine has more ammo and a slightly longer range that can make a big difference.

Right now the jungle is better at both headshots and body shots, so there's no reason to use the Trombone which is a shame.

Feels like Commando Carbine -> Trombone -> Jungle Carbine all pushed the power levels of these hobo snipers on Medics. This all stems from the launch allocations of weapons, where medics had the worst one (close range SMGs), and all of the updates were designed to give medics better long range capabilities with either that ZT??? SMG, or bolt rifles.

I think a sniper on medic is overpowered. You can take fire from recon or MMG, heal up, and then counter-snipe them. Plus Jungle Carbine is decent close-up, where MMGs/Snipers are quite bad.

It is a mess, and this patch just shuffled the cards. Perhaps the game is different on PS4, where bolt-action is harder to pull off and controller favors spray weapons more.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
Feels like Commando Carbine -> Trombone -> Jungle Carbine all pushed the power levels of these hobo snipers on Medics. This all stems from the launch allocations of weapons, where medics had the worst one (close range SMGs), and all of the updates were designed to give medics better long range capabilities with either that ZT??? SMG, or bolt rifles.

I think a sniper on medic is overpowered. You can take fire from recon or MMG, heal up, and then counter-snipe them. Plus Jungle Carbine is decent close-up, where MMGs/Snipers are quite bad.

It is a mess, and this patch just shuffled the cards. Perhaps the game is different on PS4, where bolt-action is harder to pull off and controller favors spray weapons more.
I wouldn't say OP, they allowed medics to be effective at assault rifle/semi ranges without the RoF, so if you can't HS you won't have an advantage, and that is quite difficult to maintain with consistency at close to medium ranges.

Apart from the limited hs range what limits carbines at range is the bullet velocity. It is quite easy to avoid bullets at range and very difficult to hit ADAD-spammers (which is anyone decent). Recon rifles aren't as limited because bullet velocity is much, much higher. Look at a ranged duel between two jungle carbines, it'll go on forever. Prone MMGs are easily countered by any weapon, or revolvers for that matter.

These limitations for carbines still apply, unless players have bad movement (standing still or straight lines) they're unlikely to be sniped by carbines. At close to medium range carbines can be countered quite easily, though they are stronger at medium range against a selection of weapons.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
I wouldn't say OP, they allowed medics to be effective at assault rifle/semi ranges without the RoF, so if you can't HS you won't have an advantage, and that is quite difficult to maintain with consistency at close to medium ranges.

Apart from the limited hs range what limits carbines at range is the bullet velocity. It is quite easy to avoid bullets at range and very difficult to hit ADAD-spammers (which is anyone decent). Recon rifles aren't as limited because bullet velocity is much, much higher. Look at a ranged duel between two jungle carbines, it'll go on forever. Prone MMGs are easily countered by any weapon, or revolvers for that matter.

These limitations for carbines still apply, unless players have bad movement (standing still or straight lines) they're unlikely to be sniped by carbines. At close to medium range carbines can be countered quite easily, though they are stronger at medium range against a selection of weapons.

Then why am I killed by Jungle Carbines so often? This weapon is a meme between me and friend, because we both get killed by it often, and we usually play as assaults with rifles.

We aren't best, but usually ending the game with a positive K/Ds, even if I don't get the tank.

THEY TOOK OUR JEWBS

This is why we needed stats and real communication from DICE. None of this monologue about how DICE feels and then proceeds to make changes based on their whims.
If they can show weapons by popularity and kill/min, then we could have an informed discussion which weapons are better/worse. Plus the community would be much more understanding when you can point to the abnormal popularity/performance data and proceed to nerf the weapon.

At this point we can only discuss opinions and anecdotal experiences, the informed discussion on weapons is impossible.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
From a casual perspective, both BF1 and BFV have been basically incomprehensible. Nothing actually seems to work the way you'd expect it to and you have no idea why you die. The game helps very little. This ttk change is insignificant in face of all that.

For some reason BF3 and 4 were much better. It's really hard to quantify this.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
Then why am I killed by Jungle Carbines so often? This weapon is a meme between me and friend, because we both get killed by it often, and we usually play as assaults with rifles.

We aren't best, but usually ending the game with a positive K/Ds, even if I don't get the tank.

THEY TOOK OUR JEWBS

This is why we needed stats and real communication from DICE. None of this monologue about how DICE feels and then proceeds to make changes based on their whims.
If they can show weapons by popularity and kill/min, then we could have an informed discussion which weapons are better/worse. Plus the community would be much more understanding when you can point to the abnormal popularity/performance data and proceed to nerf the weapon.

At this point we can only discuss opinions and anecdotal experiences, the informed discussion on weapons is impossible.
I'd say if the same player that killed you had used an AR/semi you'd be equally dead in that situation, only the AR could then go on and get multiple kills quite easily when the carbine is more vulnerable against multiple targets. Also one thing you notice when looking through recorded gameplay where you're wrecking a server is that you kill the same people over and over again, those are the easy kills with bad movement. I rarely have top scorers show up in footage more than once or twice because these players take smart routes and firstly don't get caught in bad situations (no cover/support) and secondly respond with good tactics (movement and aim) from advantaged positions when caught. When sporting Jungle Carbine it still makes sense for medics to pick up assault weapons to become more effecive.

Looking at BF statistics just now confirmed my feeling that I'm more efficient with SMGs (KPM about 13-20% higher with ZK compared to Trombone and Jungle), but carbines are more fun so I use them anyway. If I'm up against players that are above my skill level in tough games I need to switch to SMGs to stay competitive, but that is rare.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
My initial post patch impression is that the auto spotting is overbearing and breaks the immersion, and the top tier players have responded to the TTK changes by switching to the jungle carbine.
Yep, jungle carbine and type 100 everywhere. Honestly, new players will still get destroyed by veterans, so not sure the ttk makes a large difference.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,687
Well on a more positive note, the fleigerfaust seems to be better balanced now. Still useful but not overkill like it was. Takes some effort to aim now and you can't 1-man takedown a plane anymore. Good job there.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Yep, jungle carbine and type 100 everywhere. Honestly, new players will still get destroyed by veterans, so not sure the ttk makes a large difference.

Yeah, it's a complete mission failed on making more weapons viable. Things might change but so far I'm being killed by a smaller variety of weapons than before the patch.
 

Deleted member 8901

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,522
I've switched to Jungle Carbine on PS4. It's great. And the auto-spotting is helping me significantly picking people off from far that I otherwise never would have seen or noticed.

I can get used to the weapon damage changes but auto-spotting is just idiotic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Why is there a 35 squad-revives mandatory challenge... I doubt I average more than 5 in a game... Nope, not playing this week.

Trash reward + trash challenges: the worst kind of event.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,919
From reddit:
M1 Garand has a specialization that increases long range damage but decreases rate of fire from 360 to 300.

5.2 brought Garand ROF from 360 to 257 so now the specialization "reduces" it from 257 to 300......

That's when I realized nobody tested this or gave a fuck.

Just tested it and it's completely true. Wow.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
From reddit:


Just tested it and it's completely true. Wow.

DICE also said they were going to tweak specializations to make up for the damage reductions. According to reddit, the ONLY specialization change was the addition of the bayonet to one gun.

Their messaging in the past few months is about being careful and methodical with updates. Something went very wrong with 5.2.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,919
Their messaging in the past few months is about being careful and methodical with updates. Something went very wrong with 5.2.

Honestly just feels like someone in DICE leadership stepped in without being familiar with the game and rammed through this change to try and make the KPIs better, either for their sake or EA's. An ex dev was alluding to that on twitter.

Like if you were going to slam through an awful change, inbetween pacific drops would be the time to do it. But nothing about this was well thought out, tested, or executed. Even the update itself was broken with the ID_Sparta shit.

Imagine if they dropped the QoL improvements with a few tweaks to guns and then went straight into Wake Island with the Pacific afterglow intact. Instead, all the talk has been about the TTK since they started talking about it. Even the comments on the Wake trailer essentially say "thanks for the great map, now please unfuck the gunplay."

The TTK is actually higher than BC2 at some ranges, which was previously the slowest BF title.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
What happened to suppression, people are just completely unaffected by getting hosed with a machine gun. It's like every game they get more ridiculously ineffective.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,919
What happened to suppression, people are just completely unaffected by getting hosed with a machine gun. It's like every game they get more ridiculously ineffective.

It's 100% visual now. So if you are trying to use a MG, try to set up enfilading fire where players can't instantly pop you in the head.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Honestly just feels like someone in DICE leadership stepped in without being familiar with the game and rammed through this change to try and make the KPIs better, either for their sake or EA's. An ex dev was alluding to that on twitter.

Like if you were going to slam through an awful change, inbetween pacific drops would be the time to do it. But nothing about this was well thought out, tested, or executed. Even the update itself was broken with the ID_Sparta shit.

Imagine if they dropped the QoL improvements with a few tweaks to guns and then went straight into Wake Island with the Pacific afterglow intact. Instead, all the talk has been about the TTK since they started talking about it. Even the comments on the Wake trailer essentially say "thanks for the great map, now please unfuck the gunplay."

The TTK is actually higher than BC2 at some ranges, which was previously the slowest BF title.

The headlines about TTK also bury the other bad things about the patch. Old bugs have come back (T posing, dead peple hanging by the waist), post game reports seem totally hosed, the freaking minimap shows you which way enemies are facing, the auto spotting is COMPLETELY broken, not to mention a fundamentally bad idea.

Before the patch the auto spotting was the least of my concerns, but my lordy does it remove a layer of skill from the game. You don't have to scan your surroundings carefully, just wait for the icon to tell you where to shoot.
 

RNG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
Honestly just feels like someone in DICE leadership stepped in without being familiar with the game and rammed through this change to try and make the KPIs better, either for their sake or EA's. An ex dev was alluding to that on twitter.
Hmmmm, maybe these changes could be coming from that top FIFA microtransactions guy that recently moved over to DICE not that long ago.

EDIT: Here's the article

Formerly known as the boss of FIFA is heading up EA's European studios (DICE included). Makes sense, I wouldn't be surprised if these decisions are being made by him.
 
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Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
What happened to suppression, people are just completely unaffected by getting hosed with a machine gun. It's like every game they get more ridiculously ineffective.
I think it only stops passive regen and sometimes does a soft "spot" (unsure how that mechanic works) unless you're using the machine gunner spec, in which case it'll do a proper spot when fully suppressed.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
All this time playing the game and I had no idea you could slide by double tapping the crouch button whole sprinting.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I think the BTK is will be fine after fine tweaking some guns.

before automatic guns ruled at all ranges now everything has a correct range, you can't dominate everything at all ranges with a STG.

not loving the spotting this tbh.
It just feels weird that they put it in if they want boobs to live longer.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,919
Every game of Frontlines I join is a complete and utter fucking faceroll because the only spots open on the smaller modes are due to players quitting in frustration.

But yeah DICE, I'm sure the TTK was the problem and not players going 1 and 9 because they're getting swarmed by better players. I was literally the only player on my team with a positive KD.

I cannot overstate how frustrated and mad at this game I am for clunky shit that was never in previous titles
 

Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,282
Reading impressions and watching some footage of youtubers is just painful...
I didn't even watch the new trailer...
or play the game in the last two days (which is a long time for me, especially since the Pacific update).

EA wants new cows to milk, they don't give a fuck about customers who bought the deluxe edition at launch at full price in full confidence.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
I think the BTK is will be fine after fine tweaking some guns.

before automatic guns ruled at all ranges now everything has a correct range, you can't dominate everything at all ranges with a STG.

I don't know if this is PC vs Console thing, but STG was inferior DPS to MMGs on medium range, inferior to SMGs up close, and cannot duel snipers up far. It was a jack of all trades weapon, but in my anecdotal experience, it wasn't problematic.

And even if we go with the idea that STG and other auto-rifles were too dominant... Why nerf SMGs, MMGs, LMGs? Why not buff other weapons to be more effective?
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
Why is there a 35 squad-revives mandatory challenge... I doubt I average more than 5 in a game... Nope, not playing this week.

Trash reward + trash challenges: the worst kind of event.
Played 30 minutes of squad conquest and it was a breeze. Just found a squad full of assaults and chased them 20 yards behind, easy revives and we steamrolled almost every game.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
I don't know if this is PC vs Console thing, but STG was inferior DPS to MMGs on medium range, inferior to SMGs up close, and cannot duel snipers up far. It was a jack of all trades weapon, but in my anecdotal experience, it wasn't problematic.

And even if we go with the idea that STG and other auto-rifles were too dominant... Why nerf SMGs, MMGs, LMGs? Why not buff other weapons to be more effective?
Because they were already really good. In fact, I think the recon SLRs got an accuracy nerf so the bolt actions look less useless.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I don't know if this is PC vs Console thing, but STG was inferior DPS to MMGs on medium range, inferior to SMGs up close, and cannot duel snipers up far. It was a jack of all trades weapon, but in my anecdotal experience, it wasn't problematic.

And even if we go with the idea that STG and other auto-rifles were too dominant... Why nerf SMGs, MMGs, LMGs? Why not buff other weapons to be more effective?

On console STG is still great.


SMGs are still effective at the intended range, been using the type 100 on maps and I still do very well.
MMGs I couldn't care less about tbh since I dislike the style of play and the meta they produced.
LMG need some tweaking I agree.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
On console STG is still great.


SMGs are still effective at the intended range, been using the type 100 on maps and I still do very well.
MMGs I couldn't care less about tbh since I dislike the style of play and the meta they produced.
LMG need some tweaking I agree.
I've been trying to use the Suomi post patch and it's been challenging
 

klik

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
873
I have to thank this TTK update a bit because it made play with assault class after i played 99.9% of time as medic.


Its really fun to use assault rifles and to hunt tanks. It definitely makes me play a lot more careful because i dont have endless supply of bandages/medic bags.


Also,a question. Im using that panzer bazooka to shoot at tanks but it seems that i always done only 15-20 damage to tanks. Are they underpowered or is it PIAT better?