Dropping support for a game after launch would be better than taking advantage of your user base, which almost every multiplayer game does now.
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Battle Passes are turning games into work instead of fun
- Thread starter Hamster Plugin
- Start date
Dropping support for a game after launch would be better than taking advantage of your user base, which almost every multiplayer game does now.
If a game is the complete package and the developers intended for it to be so, then yes. Move on and make the next latest and greatest.
Right, because supporting a game post-launch necessitates exploitative meta-games and social engineering.
Battle passes are just the next level of manipulative trash practices this industry has come up with.
Not a fan either. I just finished my Apex battle pass. I doubt I'll play enough next season to complete the next one. Pretty much every online game nowadays competes for your time and money to finish content. Meh, I quit every game that has (monthly) content updates because feeling obliged to do something or "missing out" isn't for me.
I like the sense of progress and the rewards but I usually don't buy them because I can't commit the time to make any meaningful progress during a season. I think most battlepasses don't allow you to finish the rewards after a season ended, right? That's what keeps me from buying them.
yeah apex was the first one i bought and while i was happy to support the game and feel like i got a lot of fun out of it, it was stressful and kinda weird to feel obligated to play so regularly.
even if i was going to play that much anyways, i'd prefer for it to be on my own time.
even if i was going to play that much anyways, i'd prefer for it to be on my own time.
I thought the last Rocket League BP was easy enough to get everything and accessible enough by just playing the game normally outside of having to equip some cosmetics etc. I think I maxed out the BP halfway through the season. It's stuff like Apex that requires you to be really good in a game where a lot of people are even better than you where I'd agree it starts feeling like work. Every now and then I'd have a good match in Apex, but between those matches the BP was slooooow.
I'm still more or less in the "meh, whatever" group wrt battle passes. I've played a ton of Apex Legends, but never had a hard time just ignoring the whole cosmetics and BP parts of the game. Only bought the season 2 BP since I happened to reach level 50 just by playing the game like I always do, and will likely do the same with season 3.
Yeah. Paid for Battle Pass once with Paladins. Never again. It's more tedious than those mobile games mechanic where it requires you to login every day.
Dota 2 started this trend and people tolerated it because you can resell those stuff for money. Other games though, no way to resell and it just become worse and exploitative.
Dota 2 started this trend and people tolerated it because you can resell those stuff for money. Other games though, no way to resell and it just become worse and exploitative.
There are numerous factors with Battle Passes that did not exist with Halo back in the day, and yes, you can get addicted to nearly anything, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be wary of certain things that are more likely to cause addiction (and are arguably designed to cause it).
Battle Passes encourage you to spend time playing the game in a rather specific way. To log in each day. To play a bit every couple of days. To play quite a lot every week. If you don't you get behind. If you don't for too long your opportunity to get the best stuff disappears forever. You are encouraged to spend time to unlock the things you've effectively already bought. If you do spend that time you feel more and more like you've wasted unless you get to the end. Battle passes also materially affect how users play in a way that is often not positive.
I'm not anti GaaS, but people should be aware of how/why these systems work and the downsides of them. If I were a parent I would not want my child to have a Battle Pass (but that would be quite hard to achieve with Fortnite because Epic have made it possible to get in on the pass for free after which it's not that hard to keep getting the next one and the next one and the next one).
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Yeah I'm inclined to put this down to the ERA bubble/demographic. Not saying it's not a valid concern or reason to not want to like or play GaaS games but I think for the masses (and for myself personally) battlepasses are fine. I see people call it shady or "it tries to lock you into one game forever". Like, yeah no shit. That's literally how GaaS works. If they don't keep you around, they don't make any money. In the case of Fortnite or soon D2, it's for mostly free games. End of the day, if you don't enjoy the game, don't play it.
It doesn't have to be black or white though.
As it is, the majority of games with online features are taking advantage of their user base and feed them garbage that is basically gambling.
I'm all for DLC, expansions or any other meaningful support after the game is released but let's not pretend that GaaS is about anything else than milking money off of everyone.
So, dropping support. :)
Adding more content is taking advantage?
Exploitative, what? That you get to have more stuff and challenges to do is exploitative? Have you tried, you know, just playing what you want for fun?
What does a servicing model have to do with monetisation models? They are not 1:1.
I've got no problems with BPs since they are almost always purely cosmetic. If it's like that, then I'm okay with it since the main game stays the same. And I couldn't care less about the newest exclusive skin. So I play the game exactly the way like I want without thinking about such things. I like the GaaS approach more than the MP expansions of the past which just fragmented the userbases. Of course the best course of action would be constant content without any moneymaking mechanics but that's utopic in todays landscape ^^
I literally only play rocket league for the sake of getting the items now. I actually wanted a season pass system in RL, since tbh their lootboxes were some of the worst in gaming all around, but this sucks too. The BP might actually be having even more of an effect on my play that the shitty crates
How does this work with games like fortnite, destiny etc ? Only iterate through expansions ? Or never change the map/content in battle games ?
Not all games fit the model of the witcher or games in the old days like half life etc.
But so does any game that offers rewards or loot. However said rewards are structured. I totally get your point ts more that creating loops that people enjoy is what gaming is. And the line between a loop being addictive in a good way and a bad way is not "GaaS" per se.
I think there are times and places for BPs and good and bad implementations.
I don't personally think the BP makes players addicted its the gameplay loop itself - if that is enjoyable and fun then the rest follows. The BP might as you say negatively impact HOW people enjoy the game though.
No but you are saying in order to add more content post launch lootboxes and battle passes are required are you not?
Because if so then I would rather there was no support after the game launches but these things were taken out
I agree, that's why I stopped playing BFV even though I enjoyed the core gameplay. I'd rather pay for periodical DLC than the constant nagging of a battlepass. And yes I know, BFV's battlepass isn't a "true" battlepass because it doesn't have a paid and free track, but it behaves exactly like one.
I've done all the Fortnite ones so far.
The change they made this season with Daily challenges where you don't need to actively boot the game up daily to get the challenge has been great. Just need to make sure you clear them before the weekly reset on a Wednesday.
The thing for me is that I still enjoy the game itself as long as i'm playing with friends, and I like the cosmetics they include in the passes.
Something like Apex where I had 0 interest at all in the cosmetics but enjoyed the game means a battle pass there would be worthless for me.
The change they made this season with Daily challenges where you don't need to actively boot the game up daily to get the challenge has been great. Just need to make sure you clear them before the weekly reset on a Wednesday.
The thing for me is that I still enjoy the game itself as long as i'm playing with friends, and I like the cosmetics they include in the passes.
Something like Apex where I had 0 interest at all in the cosmetics but enjoyed the game means a battle pass there would be worthless for me.
That's not really a retort is it. You're refusing to reflect on what behavioral loops systems such as these incentivize and instead deflect the issue. Yes, I play games for fun? That doesn't exist outside of the sphere of the economic drive behind these mechanics. I've also been pulled into no-lifing games like these to keep up with the grind. There's a meaningful discussion to be had here. No need to stifle it if you don't want to engage with the subject. I don't see how post-launch support necessitates battle passes and engagement traps. That premise doesn't ring true given how many multiplayer games used to subsist on different models in the past.
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Totally agreed, I used to be a big multiplayer person but I can't remember the last MP game I really got into because of how terribly grindy everything has become. I was hoping Gears 5 would scratch that itch but it maybe has one of the worst progression systems I've seen.
It's just really sleazy and prioritizes keeping whales on board rather than keeping your fans consistently engaged.
It's just really sleazy and prioritizes keeping whales on board rather than keeping your fans consistently engaged.
"Every" game has slowly been turning into EverQuest.
Actually Luke Smith said "unlike other games just playing destiny 2 will level you up"
so just play what you want.
so just play what you want.
It would be fine if it weren't for the "hey look you can buy levels for a humongous price just to not grind"
Now this is the really bad shit
Now this is the really bad shit
Having to figure out what I need to buy in order to get the chance to get most out of a game is an instant turn off.
Because they're not designed to fit that model. We've had multiplayer games too in the past, going back to Quake in the 90s. And they didn't need to be a gaas.
I don't know, seems like every game that offers a "servicing" model happens to have battle passes/loot boxes/pay to win items/etc.
For F2P games, whatever. That's their way of guaranteeing profit I guess. Can't justify those terrible MTX models for $60 games though.
As I said, I'm all for support of a game post launch, but for something worthwhile. Look at last gen to see how it was done a bit better, mostly without making people addicted to spending their money in a game.
I was way into the Apex season 2 battle pass...until monster hunter iceborne was released. As long as the Battle Pass game is the sole game you play, they can be fun. Otherwise, yeah, it seems like a chore list you need to tackle before you play the game you actually want to play.
There definitely is a meaningful discussion to be had, like what are viable alternatives for games like these. Battle passes definitely are not perfect but at least you can clearly see what you paying for and its cosmetic. Would you prefer if you had the option to pay 10 quid and you got all the items unlocked straight away. Genuine question btw. Dev still gets money and you dont have to face the grind. Only issue he is with the people who either like the grind/level rewards or the people who like having items that others don't.
They exist so players have something to play for and spend more time on the game.
Those Battle Passes have the opposite effect on me. I'm playing less because I know that I can't get all of that stuff without spending a huge amount of time on ALL these games.
Those Battle Passes have the opposite effect on me. I'm playing less because I know that I can't get all of that stuff without spending a huge amount of time on ALL these games.
The Rocket Pass is one of the few passes, where you basically get the contents without work it you play the game here and there. And the challenges are very easy (win 3 times, play 10 matches with that topper, score 2 goals, say "Nice Shot" ten times et cetera).
I am the same, whats the opposite to carrot on a stick ? Parsnip on a stick ? No one likes parsnips right ?
Man I just came here to post something to like this. Early MMO's had the monthly sub attached to it, and for a few of my friends this was a non-starter for them. I think my EQ sub in 2000 was $10 bucks a month and it went up incrementally seemingly each year. I remember bringing the game home and being shocked about the sub fee but for the amount of time I invested, it was cheap entertainment. Now there are subscriptions for everything-TV, movie tickets, shaving supplies, snacks, supplemental pizza insurance(oh it's gonna happen, folks!).
Had a shower thought the other day after having jumped from AC: Odyssey to Link's Awakening. Two games diametrically opposed on the spectrum of monetization.
Next-Gen platforms maybe should have an opt-in system-wide toggle to mute/hide all GaaS/addon monetization in games. Make it hard to find or whatever but having a feature that would just let you play a game as is without constant reminders that there is more to purchase / redeem / add! would be pretty neat.
Call it the Silence! toggle.
While playing AC:O I was left wishing for such a toggle that would simply mute or hide all the pop-ups, ads, reminders, icons, filters for various value-add GaaS things and leave me alone to simply play the game. The aforementioned slowed on-boarding down to a crawl and made me feel like I was walking through a shopping mall instead of staring up a game. (The game spends quite a bit of time letting you know of the numerous value-add expansions or passes it has on offer on a cold boot and also in-game with all the map filters for social/monetary vendors.
This was exacerbated when I moved to Link's Awakening that has zero of anything other than the game presented as is.
That said, I don't necessarily mind GaaS monetization (everything in moderation), but how this messaging is sometimes delivered to players could do with a sanity check.
Next-Gen platforms maybe should have an opt-in system-wide toggle to mute/hide all GaaS/addon monetization in games. Make it hard to find or whatever but having a feature that would just let you play a game as is without constant reminders that there is more to purchase / redeem / add! would be pretty neat.
Call it the Silence! toggle.
While playing AC:O I was left wishing for such a toggle that would simply mute or hide all the pop-ups, ads, reminders, icons, filters for various value-add GaaS things and leave me alone to simply play the game. The aforementioned slowed on-boarding down to a crawl and made me feel like I was walking through a shopping mall instead of staring up a game. (The game spends quite a bit of time letting you know of the numerous value-add expansions or passes it has on offer on a cold boot and also in-game with all the map filters for social/monetary vendors.
This was exacerbated when I moved to Link's Awakening that has zero of anything other than the game presented as is.
That said, I don't necessarily mind GaaS monetization (everything in moderation), but how this messaging is sometimes delivered to players could do with a sanity check.
Actually bought last season's Fortnite pass and never completed a single week of challenges. Only played for like two weeks and it really hit me how much I was playing just to tick boxes. Uninstalled it this season.
I'm all for more DLC after a game ships, but in most cases, I feel like it's less "Let's create new content and DLC people can buy!" and more "How can we ensure people play our games more and also get them to spend more than they would for normal DLC?" And thus nearly every online game has battle passes. I'd rather have a small package of cosmetic DLC which isn't too expensive rather than battle passes where your options are to repeat meaningless tasks for 50+ hours or pay a ton of money to instantly unlock all rewards.
I don't even bother with this crap. All I understand is I buy something so I have to do quests or challenges to unlock things I paid for in the first place?
Old men yelling and all but I neither have the time for this nor the ambition. For me it's simply something I completely ignore.
Old men yelling and all but I neither have the time for this nor the ambition. For me it's simply something I completely ignore.
I stopped playing Warframe because of their implementation of a battlepass. To their credit it's free but it also locks some stuff previously obtainable other ways behind it and is the only way now to get some things worth having. I don't like attempts to lock me into a game so I pretty much stopped playing despite my affection for the game. When a game becomes work (Especially timed work like a battlepass) I lose interest very quickly.
if that means designing your game as a one and done, fun experience where people do play (and keep playing) for the gameplay loop instead of forcing artificial manipulative grind inside (like insane requirement to unlock a scope or weapon which used to be there right away, passes or daylies) because you have to artificially maintain a playing populace to sell mtx, then yes, it's much better for the players.
Corporate bean counters looking for constant revenue can die in a fire.
I think those games look interesting, but I avoid them for that very reason. They want to trap you in their ecosystem, make you brand loyal, and extract as much money from you as possible. Fuck that.
Time to game is limited, I want something I can pick up and put down at my leisure.
Time to game is limited, I want something I can pick up and put down at my leisure.
I'm shocked how good Red Dead's Battle Pass is.
It levels up with any xp you earn in the game. For doing anything. There are no specific challenges tied to filling it out, it just goes up as you play. And it goes up quick. It's 70 levels and I bought it 11 days ago and I'm at 66. It lasts until November 18. You get back all the gold that you spend on it. I'm really happy with it. Don't feel like I've had to work on it or change how I play the game. I've just played the game normally and it's ticked along and given me cool stuff and money back.