-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Batman: Three Jokers - A three-issue DC Black Label miniseries (#1 out now!) [Tag spoilers!]
- Thread starter Deleted member 11370
- Start date
OP
OP
Just go through the issue and... it's OK. I was expecting something much blander. It's not like it sticks the landing 100%, but at least it's not the rushed mess I was dreading.
The whole premise of the story proved to be really, really flimsy. If Johns wanted to do an exploration of Batman, Batgirl and Red Hood, he really didn't need this Joker story to do so. The whole "3 Jokers" thing is completely inconsequential to the overall arc of the characters.
I'll collect my thoughts, reread the whole series back to back and come back to post more later. I'm trying to process how I feel about it now.
The whole premise of the story proved to be really, really flimsy. If Johns wanted to do an exploration of Batman, Batgirl and Red Hood, he really didn't need this Joker story to do so. The whole "3 Jokers" thing is completely inconsequential to the overall arc of the characters.
I'll collect my thoughts, reread the whole series back to back and come back to post more later. I'm trying to process how I feel about it now.
Also, the ending confirms... or at least heavily implies... that the real Joker is The Comedian. Bruce says he has known his name since after one week of their first encounter, and the ending retcons The Killing Joke. That, of course, makes no sense. But, hey.
Basic thoughts I just posted in the Comics OT:
www.resetera.com
I really liked how Three Jokers ended up, except maybe for the Jason/Barbara yearning, though the letter being lost means nobody necessarily has to make it a thing.
I found the Joe Chill/parents' death closure part satisfying, and I'm just fine with the Joker revelations being more slight than world shattering... as long as future writers don't make Kid Joker Jr out of that boy 😂
It was nice to see a panel acknowledging their Batman:Endgame battle to the (quote-unquote) death. It's surprising now when parts of the New 52 get acknowledged.
Ending TLDR for y'all:
The Killing Joke Joker origin is canon (as long as Three Jokers in even canon!) Joker's wife from the KJ flashbacks didn't actually die, but was put into witness protection and now lives with their son. Joker doesn't know this, but Bruce does (along with Joker's real name) and has kept this hidden the whole time.
Batman saves Joe Chill from being thrown in chemicals by the oldest Joker. That Joker is then killed by Killing Joke Joker and it's unclear which of them created the other. We're left with one Joker, who Batman takes to Arkham Asylum.
It turns out Joe Chill killed the Waynes out of haves/have-nots frustration, but grew repentant in jail. Bruce watches over Joe as he dies of cancer and seemingly gets closure.
Jason feels a romantic connection with Barbara over their shared Joker trauma and expresses that in a letter, saying he'll give up Red Hood for her if she feels the same way, but the letter falls off her door and gets swept away by a janitor.
Barbara also called Jim Gordon "Dad" as Batgirl on the job after he expressed some concern to her, though that could be seen by him as sarcasm (I actually have no idea if she's come out to him already.)
COMICS!!! |OT| October 2020 | I see that face in my nightmares.
Kree and Skrulls, as united by Hulkling, go to war with Cotati aka sentient alien plant people with Earth as the primary battleground. Avengers and Fantastic Four mediate
www.resetera.com
I really liked how Three Jokers ended up, except maybe for the Jason/Barbara yearning, though the letter being lost means nobody necessarily has to make it a thing.
I found the Joe Chill/parents' death closure part satisfying, and I'm just fine with the Joker revelations being more slight than world shattering... as long as future writers don't make Kid Joker Jr out of that boy 😂
It was nice to see a panel acknowledging their Batman:Endgame battle to the (quote-unquote) death. It's surprising now when parts of the New 52 get acknowledged.
Ending TLDR for y'all:
The Killing Joke Joker origin is canon (as long as Three Jokers in even canon!) Joker's wife from the KJ flashbacks didn't actually die, but was put into witness protection and now lives with their son. Joker doesn't know this, but Bruce does (along with Joker's real name) and has kept this hidden the whole time.
Batman saves Joe Chill from being thrown in chemicals by the oldest Joker. That Joker is then killed by Killing Joke Joker and it's unclear which of them created the other. We're left with one Joker, who Batman takes to Arkham Asylum.
It turns out Joe Chill killed the Waynes out of haves/have-nots frustration, but grew repentant in jail. Bruce watches over Joe as he dies of cancer and seemingly gets closure.
Jason feels a romantic connection with Barbara over their shared Joker trauma and expresses that in a letter, saying he'll give up Red Hood for her if she feels the same way, but the letter falls off her door and gets swept away by a janitor.
Barbara also called Jim Gordon "Dad" as Batgirl on the job after he expressed some concern to her, though that could be seen by him as sarcasm (I actually have no idea if she's come out to him already.)
Last edited:
I honestly think if it wasn't for the hype and long wait people (including me) would be less harsh on it
Because it's really just fun "OGN" Joker story with some meta commentary on the evolution of Joker over the years, story about Trauma and the relationship the bat family to the joker, it wasn't earth shattering or "CHANGED THE WAY WE SEE JOKER FOREVER AND CAUSE MAJOR CHANGES" or even that deep, it's just a cool Joker story
Because it's really just fun "OGN" Joker story with some meta commentary on the evolution of Joker over the years, story about Trauma and the relationship the bat family to the joker, it wasn't earth shattering or "CHANGED THE WAY WE SEE JOKER FOREVER AND CAUSE MAJOR CHANGES" or even that deep, it's just a cool Joker story
But it's not a complete Joker story.
Johns seems to have dropped into writing half stories. The comics he writes just sort of stop, set stuff up he might go back to later on, and when he does go back to them the pay off just sets up more stuff. Like how Flashpoint sets up this big Pandora story which goes nowhere, his JL runs sets up Three Jokers, D.C. Rebirth and Doomsday Clock, all of which set up other stuff.
And when he does finish a run, all Shazam, it's a rushed mess which just sort of ends in a mundane fashion.
I like Johns as a writer, but I'd really, really like it if he could've written this as actually self contained rather than setting up a load of shit he'll sort of pay off, maybe, at some point.
In the Marvel Universe the no killing rule is definitely used less often then the Marvel Universe. Alot of marvel hero's have murdered pepole
Avengers has killed before and as long they're not Punisher kill crazy or killing innocent people they don't have too much a problem
If we use the murderer argument - Damian Wayne would also count since he has killed people. Cassandra Cain would also count
While I still find the whole concept wholy unnecessary and convoluted (at least for what was at first supposed to be an in-continuity story), I enjoyed all three issues. The art is stellar as expected (and has some of my favourite designs for Batman, Batgirl and Red Hood) and there are some really nice moments here and there.
This is selling pretty well, I think? I wonder if that would make DC more comfortable with making references to this down the road. I still think they won't, though.
This is selling pretty well, I think? I wonder if that would make DC more comfortable with making references to this down the road. I still think they won't, though.
Both were brainwashed children who Batman rehabilitated and he recently kicked off Damian his own son for jailing criminals in inhumane conditions
He even recently went to a new character that was killing Joker goons and probably because he was a kid whose parents were killed by clowns
Batman does allow for rehabilitation i think people are annoyed due to nature of comics and branding Todd keeps rejecting it and been doing the same song and dance
Yeah, honestly while I like a lot of the Joker elements in this book a great deal, I think the massive hype around the titular "Three Jokers" mystery/gimmick was a big mistake. If anything, I'd argue the strength of this book- especially after going back and reading the entire story from start-to-finish again, is how Johns explores the respective traumas of Bruce, Barbara and Jason. The titular three Jokers are great, and the book makes some solid use of making them terrifying, but for the most part they're not the beating heart of the book.
In that regard, Three Jokers might just be one of my favorite Batman stories in quite a long while. I think it's actually a shame that it was delayed for so long that it wound up coming out the same time that the mainline Batman comic was also doing a big Joker story with similar plot beats.
No lie, I actually LOVE how low stakes this book is overall. It's a frightening mystery and the psychological horrors cut rather strong, to the point where I felt that Bruce's final showdown between the Criminal and Comedian at Monarch Theaters with Joe Chill as their hostage landed far more effectively than Tynion's take in Joker War a couple of weeks ago did.
And honestly, reading those final pages a few times over, I actually like the book's retcon on the nature of the Killing Joke backstory. We still don't know what exactly happened to the Comedian Joker. Obviously the family from his TKJ flashbacks is real, but if his wife and kid never died from that electrocution accident, then I doubt he was ever visited by some cops to be informed of that story ahead of his stint at Ace Chemicals. So clearly Comedian Joker's memory is still distorted and not wholly reliable, as he so gleefully cheered in TKJ.
But all of this leads to another look at the panel of the wife entering Witness Protection Services too. Presumably that had to do with her husband becoming the Joker, but if Comedian's misremembering the past already, what's to say he wasn't the tragic husband with one bad day that his flashbacks depict him as. Maybe he was abusive and violent before he was Joker?
At the end of the day, I think Bruce's sentiment works really well- it doesn't matter who the Joker really was before. What matters is the well-being of that innocent family.
And honestly, reading those final pages a few times over, I actually like the book's retcon on the nature of the Killing Joke backstory. We still don't know what exactly happened to the Comedian Joker. Obviously the family from his TKJ flashbacks is real, but if his wife and kid never died from that electrocution accident, then I doubt he was ever visited by some cops to be informed of that story ahead of his stint at Ace Chemicals. So clearly Comedian Joker's memory is still distorted and not wholly reliable, as he so gleefully cheered in TKJ.
But all of this leads to another look at the panel of the wife entering Witness Protection Services too. Presumably that had to do with her husband becoming the Joker, but if Comedian's misremembering the past already, what's to say he wasn't the tragic husband with one bad day that his flashbacks depict him as. Maybe he was abusive and violent before he was Joker?
At the end of the day, I think Bruce's sentiment works really well- it doesn't matter who the Joker really was before. What matters is the well-being of that innocent family.
Ugh, issue three.
Bleh. The art was great, but it deserved a much better story.
The book seems to be a meta-narrative on whether it's better to define the Joker and directly link his origin with Batman or have him be a pure force of chaos, and it seems to settle on the latter, but then it throws it all away at the end to definitively say "no, he's Killing Joke Joker and Bruce always knew this"?
How the heck does that explain the previous two Jokers? Why is the third Joker the definitive Joker? "I've always known his name" is a weird line, when there's at least a good couple of decades when he didn't. Unless, of course, he also knew their names but they also had families in witsec or whatever. :/
The story about how each of the three Bat Family members dealt with trauma was good, and having Bruce reconcile with Joe Chill was also interesting, but the actual Three Jokers stuff was a wet fart. They should've dropped it. It would be relatively easy to do so - the story could definitely still be told with just one Joker, and would actually have raised far less questions that they refused to answer. It's insane that Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, isn't more interested in how exactly three Jokers had been operating under his nose for decades.
The whole thing feels like he had an idea, but then it changed somewhere along the way and he (or DC marketing) was just too attached to the "Three Jokers" conceit that he didn't drop it.
How the heck does that explain the previous two Jokers? Why is the third Joker the definitive Joker? "I've always known his name" is a weird line, when there's at least a good couple of decades when he didn't. Unless, of course, he also knew their names but they also had families in witsec or whatever. :/
The story about how each of the three Bat Family members dealt with trauma was good, and having Bruce reconcile with Joe Chill was also interesting, but the actual Three Jokers stuff was a wet fart. They should've dropped it. It would be relatively easy to do so - the story could definitely still be told with just one Joker, and would actually have raised far less questions that they refused to answer. It's insane that Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, isn't more interested in how exactly three Jokers had been operating under his nose for decades.
The whole thing feels like he had an idea, but then it changed somewhere along the way and he (or DC marketing) was just too attached to the "Three Jokers" conceit that he didn't drop it.
Bleh. The art was great, but it deserved a much better story.
I thought it was fine, didn't really believe that it would be as insane as all the hype built up.
The last part with Jason's letter cracked me up, that's where that storyline belonged in the end, weakest part of the whole thing.
The last part with Jason's letter cracked me up, that's where that storyline belonged in the end, weakest part of the whole thing.
The X-Men don't have a no kill policy. Neither do the Avengers.
Well, that was...a whole of of nothing.
For such a long wait, it sure was a wet fart of a series.
at least I liked Faboks art.
Even the main thing that got the whole thing started "who is the joker" that he asked when he had the Mobius Chair was moot since he apparently has known for all these years?
For such a long wait, it sure was a wet fart of a series.
at least I liked Faboks art.
I know people like Blackest Night but I totally agree. I stopped reading almost everything after Flashpoint/n52.
I've been saying this for ages.
I still haven't read issue #3, but I will come back to the thread when I do.
Thanks everyone for reminding me of this "event".
I checked this out of curiosity because the idea sounded interesting, but I regret it. It's money and time I'm not getting back. I don't follow much of DC these days, so while I know Geoff Johns is a big wig over there I'm not familiar with his other works. And from reading this alone, the guy is a hack. I don't say this sort of thing easily. He is that bad. The writing is clumsy, self-contradicting, self-aggrandizing, and it's not doing anything notable, interesting, or even attempting at being innovative in any sort of way in 2020.
This story even manages to do a disservice to the Killing Joke by trying to retcon it at the end. Instead, the only thing he did was make me go reread my copy of it and -- guess what -- it holds up, it holds up so damn hard. Every single page of it is something unique, creative, extremely detailed, and making perfect logical sense in the boundaries of the story it's telling. Any page could be pulled randomly and there would be something amazing to talk about it.
On the other hand, you have this Three Jokers where most pages are baffling empty, with nothing of note happening. The story is trying to tell makes little sense at the end. Its internal logic is also super wonky, because you have this Red Hood guy murdering a bunch of Joker converts as if they weren't legit people and, more importantly, victims, which makes no sense in any Batman story -- he would never let that happen under his watch. And looking back at the panel structure of Killing Joke, it's clearly Geoff Johns instructed the artist to try to "homage" them without understanding that in doing so he's just limiting the story even harder, turning what was already badly told even more evident and stifled.
Like, even the after effects. The Killing Joke did not set out to do this, yet it changed the DC Universe drastically. While I read an interview that Moore regretted writing this story because of the change of tone it led to in the industry and "destroying" Barbara as a character, it ultimately led into other great things. I stopped following DC maybe back in 2010 or earlier, but I remember very well how Barbara, turning into Oracle, a badass hacker/leader/mentor to other super heroes was the source of inspiration to a lot of disabled people. This status quo lasted for nearly two decades. Three Jokers, though? What good can even come out of it? My only hope is that other authors look at this and decide never to write something so meandering and badly intended.
This story even manages to do a disservice to the Killing Joke by trying to retcon it at the end. Instead, the only thing he did was make me go reread my copy of it and -- guess what -- it holds up, it holds up so damn hard. Every single page of it is something unique, creative, extremely detailed, and making perfect logical sense in the boundaries of the story it's telling. Any page could be pulled randomly and there would be something amazing to talk about it.
On the other hand, you have this Three Jokers where most pages are baffling empty, with nothing of note happening. The story is trying to tell makes little sense at the end. Its internal logic is also super wonky, because you have this Red Hood guy murdering a bunch of Joker converts as if they weren't legit people and, more importantly, victims, which makes no sense in any Batman story -- he would never let that happen under his watch. And looking back at the panel structure of Killing Joke, it's clearly Geoff Johns instructed the artist to try to "homage" them without understanding that in doing so he's just limiting the story even harder, turning what was already badly told even more evident and stifled.
Like, even the after effects. The Killing Joke did not set out to do this, yet it changed the DC Universe drastically. While I read an interview that Moore regretted writing this story because of the change of tone it led to in the industry and "destroying" Barbara as a character, it ultimately led into other great things. I stopped following DC maybe back in 2010 or earlier, but I remember very well how Barbara, turning into Oracle, a badass hacker/leader/mentor to other super heroes was the source of inspiration to a lot of disabled people. This status quo lasted for nearly two decades. Three Jokers, though? What good can even come out of it? My only hope is that other authors look at this and decide never to write something so meandering and badly intended.
Last edited:
I liked that more than I expected to going into it. It pivots towards being a 'Killing Joke 2', and it's clear that's the actual story Geoff John's wanted to tell. In that regard I like it.
In contrast to 'The Killing Joke', the idea that the Joker would try to invalidate Batman's 'one bad day' works for me. I like how Joe Chill was handled - it's a pretty good way to end his story. I liked Batman already knowing the Joker's name - and implying he had more sinister origins.
I disliked how the premise was handled. There's no clever resolution, it was just an interesting question to ask and a weak answer. Given the setup establishes the 'three jokers' as a truth it's stuck having to half-commit to a 'It was a gag' and establishing a 'true' Joker.
I thought Red Hood was a miss - he's wasn't interesting as a loose cannon. Batgirl story is dragged down by his, but (again, seeing it as a 'Killing Joke 2') I did like that Batgirl's identity is no secret to Jim Gordon.
I mostly liked it, but I dislike how the core premise was handled, so I'm not sure where that leaves me.
In contrast to 'The Killing Joke', the idea that the Joker would try to invalidate Batman's 'one bad day' works for me. I like how Joe Chill was handled - it's a pretty good way to end his story. I liked Batman already knowing the Joker's name - and implying he had more sinister origins.
I disliked how the premise was handled. There's no clever resolution, it was just an interesting question to ask and a weak answer. Given the setup establishes the 'three jokers' as a truth it's stuck having to half-commit to a 'It was a gag' and establishing a 'true' Joker.
I thought Red Hood was a miss - he's wasn't interesting as a loose cannon. Batgirl story is dragged down by his, but (again, seeing it as a 'Killing Joke 2') I did like that Batgirl's identity is no secret to Jim Gordon.
I mostly liked it, but I dislike how the core premise was handled, so I'm not sure where that leaves me.
Lol
(Didn't Captain America threw him out of a helicopter or helicarrier because he was sick of his shit)
it' was an ok ending
the idea of jason killing a joker being a bad thing is something that just doesn't work for me, it's arbitrary morality , joker is like a doomsday , put him down lmao
the idea of jason killing a joker being a bad thing is something that just doesn't work for me, it's arbitrary morality , joker is like a doomsday , put him down lmao
Totally forgot this was coming out today ha ha.
Overall, it is okay. I don't regret getting these issues because the art is fantastic and there are some great character moments, but the main mystery itself is just meh.
Overall, it is okay. I don't regret getting these issues because the art is fantastic and there are some great character moments, but the main mystery itself is just meh.
Although despite not really caring that the Waynes' killer is known, I actually like the resolution with Joe Chill here. Also lol at pushing the Barbara x Jason more, but because the letter was swept away, it could just not be brought up again. :V
As for the Killing Joke retcon, meh, but whatever.
As for the Killing Joke retcon, meh, but whatever.
Chill stuff was enjoyable, but ultimately the joker stuff felt inconsequential
The answer to the mystery wasn't very riveting, and in the end we're right back to one joker anyway so whatever
Barbara and Jason stuff left zero impact on me whatsoever, dead weight
overall it was...okay
fun premise, execution a little dull
The answer to the mystery wasn't very riveting, and in the end we're right back to one joker anyway so whatever
Barbara and Jason stuff left zero impact on me whatsoever, dead weight
overall it was...okay
fun premise, execution a little dull
I want someone to tell me what they're trying to say by putting so much visual emphasis on
the JO of JOE CHILL at the ending
Like I think it's pretty obvious they're wanting me to think JOKER but I dont know why
Like I think it's pretty obvious they're wanting me to think JOKER but I dont know why
Last edited:
Thinking more, I liked the Chill stuff at surface level, but it's disappointing that the book just ends there.
Batman saw and came to accept that the catalyst for him becoming the Batman was a remorseful human being with his own issues and regrets, and made amends with him. How will this affect him going forward? Will he tone down the brutality with random thugs? Maybe try and help them up, rather than pushing them down? Will he try and improve conditions at Blackgate, or try and sway them more towards rehabilitation, rather than punishment?
It feels cheap to just end it there.
Plus it's insanely strange that the book just starts with Batman going "Okay, there have been three Jokers" and nobody questions it. If my mother told me that the person I'd thought was my uncle was actually three entirely different men who just made a concerted effort to dress alike and use the same name, I'd have some follow-up questions.
That, and Batman just off-handedly telling Alfred, a guy who Joker has repeatedly tormented and tortured, "Oh, I've always known who that guy is" is just bonkers and tone-deaf. Not to mention that Bruce's whole reason why he can't publicize that information is because.. Joker's family is living in Alaska with their normal names? All of Batman's funds and connections, and that's the best he could do? He honestly believes Joker couldn't find that out eventually?
I would say that it was Johns trying to make the book appear to have more meaning than it actually does, but honestly I think it's just a product of John using the nine panel structure without actually having a meaningful reason for doing so. Something needed to go in that panel, why not just zoom in?
Batman saw and came to accept that the catalyst for him becoming the Batman was a remorseful human being with his own issues and regrets, and made amends with him. How will this affect him going forward? Will he tone down the brutality with random thugs? Maybe try and help them up, rather than pushing them down? Will he try and improve conditions at Blackgate, or try and sway them more towards rehabilitation, rather than punishment?
It feels cheap to just end it there.
Plus it's insanely strange that the book just starts with Batman going "Okay, there have been three Jokers" and nobody questions it. If my mother told me that the person I'd thought was my uncle was actually three entirely different men who just made a concerted effort to dress alike and use the same name, I'd have some follow-up questions.
That, and Batman just off-handedly telling Alfred, a guy who Joker has repeatedly tormented and tortured, "Oh, I've always known who that guy is" is just bonkers and tone-deaf. Not to mention that Bruce's whole reason why he can't publicize that information is because.. Joker's family is living in Alaska with their normal names? All of Batman's funds and connections, and that's the best he could do? He honestly believes Joker couldn't find that out eventually?
I would say that it was Johns trying to make the book appear to have more meaning than it actually does, but honestly I think it's just a product of John using the nine panel structure without actually having a meaningful reason for doing so. Something needed to go in that panel, why not just zoom in?
At first I shrugged it off for that reason, maybe just fitting the page structure
But then a few pages later for the credits, they literally blow it up to be an entire page by itself, forcing me to reconsider
it just seems like it's being given a lot of attention without any followup or discernible meaning
maybe it's still nothing
And regarding something else you mentioned, yes it seems like a very bad idea to tell alfred that information
It's clear by this point Johns completely abandoned his own initial set up, and not just to make the story more approachable, unlike he claimed before. The last issue revealing that Batman knew the Comedian's identity pretty much denied this mini's own premise. It's not the first time this happens either (see the resolution to Pandora's plot back during the New52).
A character SOOOOO important they needed to be in the background somewhere of EVER #1 issue of the New 52. And yup. Never really mattered. At all.
Does Batman really think Joker couldn't find out about his family if he really wanted to? He probably already knows.
Jason pls..... thank god that letter fell off the door
Jason pls..... thank god that letter fell off the door