-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Batman the Animated Series vs Avatar the Last Airbender
- Thread starter Bor Gullet
- Start date
My post isn't about the quality of the show. I loved TAS. It's about being able to consume batman in multiple mediums and multiple iterations with tons of quality content where it has diluted any need of mine to re-watch TAS as since then I've found other favorites. Plus I've soured a bit on Bruce Timm due to his weird obsession on Batman with Batgirl.
Avatar while it follows a fairly standard journey of the hero from start to finish, doesn't have many equivalents and it isn't spawned from a property that was long running and popular prior to it even being made.
BTAS is head and shoulders above anything else...an amazing feat and the best version of Batman, Gotham, the rogues, etc. ever.
She's definitely a huge reason for the success of both shows!
It's interesting how people value the long-term storytelling of Avatar over the episodic storytelling of Batman.
and also seem to completely disregard the merits of visual direction, animation, music, etc
Batman TAS is the pinnacle of the DCAU. Superman is the runner up, especially season one.
the Justice League cartoons are boring. They also have that garish digital animation and the music is much, much weaker without Shirley Walker. I would also point out that if your friend isn't that into superheroes it's probably better not to show them the cartoon that's over-stuffed with crazy superheroes.
also, if you're gonna show them Batman it's always good start with some of the bangers like Two Face Parts 1 & 2 or Heart Of Ice.
Since when?
Last edited:
Wow I m shocked by the outcome. I generally think Avatar is far superior in terms of concise overall plot and meaningful character development and story. I like Batman a lot. Don't get me wrong. But in a vacuum I feel like avatar definitely wins.
I don't disagree that BTAS is the best DCAU show, though they did say Unlimited, which from my recollection (plus general consensus) is better than regular JL by virtue of not needing padding to fill out two episodes. Plus the fight animation is better, usually in the episodes directed by Joaquim Dos Santos (who worked on AtLA S3, to tie things together.)
Part of my problem with the post-BTAS DCAU (and this includes The New Batman Adventures) is the over-focus on fighting which is largely very dull.
i realize that's what superheroes are supposed to do but those are never the most interesting parts of the movies, either.
BTAS was a little too samey for me visually. Got a little tiring.
ATLA had incredibly cool looking environments and varied scenery though I will say the soundtrack sounds kinda cheap in places.
It's true that it is heavily dependent on whether the episode has an animation studio/directors who can make it dynamic. But overall, I'd certainly take the more toned-down nature of BTAS. Probably why people say The Late Mr. Kent is one of the best Superman TAS episodes.
i'm not complaining
It is one of the best Superman episodes!
Last edited:
Honestly I think an argument could be made for BtAS making more mature themes for "children's" shows common. Obviously Avatar had mature themes as well...but would that have happened when it did for Avatar without the existence of BtAS?
i may be affected by nostalgia, but batman tas ranks higher than avatar tla. i haven't seen batman in many years and i've watched about 5 years ago.
i generally prefer serialized stories with large story arcs, and avatar does it really well, but didn't knock my socks off. for people arguing that batman is overdone in multiple forms of media, i'd also say that serialized story telling is also done better in many other series. i give it props for being a western made animated work that's done very very well.
what batman tas has is style that oozes out of every facet. the dark deco motif is distinctive and timeless. the musical score is as good as anything out there. the thread on the title cards just opens a flood of memories of each episode. to me it is the definitive version of batman, which is significant for a character and franchise that has many successful iterations.
i generally prefer serialized stories with large story arcs, and avatar does it really well, but didn't knock my socks off. for people arguing that batman is overdone in multiple forms of media, i'd also say that serialized story telling is also done better in many other series. i give it props for being a western made animated work that's done very very well.
what batman tas has is style that oozes out of every facet. the dark deco motif is distinctive and timeless. the musical score is as good as anything out there. the thread on the title cards just opens a flood of memories of each episode. to me it is the definitive version of batman, which is significant for a character and franchise that has many successful iterations.
OP
OP
I would argue that the fact that Batman TAS is so many people's definitive version of Batman despite there being endless variants across media Is the biggest testament to its quality, vision and achievement.
OP
OP
JL had a weak first season with the creative team finding their footing (not to dissimilar to B:TAS). but season 2 and JLU is pretty gold.
Bruce Timm has said JLU is his best and favorite show he's worked on.
Batman TAS's first season order was 60 episodes and you might be surprised how many classics were made fairly early on
It is true that in the second season the animation becomes more consistent. But that's a much shorter season and the end of the show.
The New Batman Adventures, now retconned as Season 3 of Batman TAS, has far more consistent animation then what had come before but at the expense of the weaker, simpler character redesigns. Consistent but not quite as impressive over-all.
OP
OP
You'd also be surprised at how many shitty episodes there are in B:TAS. But hey at least Shirly Walker's music was always good.
Also Kristopher Carter and Lolita Ritmanis produced some excellent music for the later DCAU shows.
Oh, yeah, there's definitely more than a few shitty episodes of Batman TAS. And there's some real whack animation even in some of the good episodes.
i've actually been doing a big DCAU watch over the course of the last few months on DCU. It's a shitload of content to go through...
Oh yeah, the main villain of both shows is Mark Hamill. I'm not so sure that Joker could take Ozai in a fight though. Maybe sub him out for Skips to level the playing field a bit.
I would argue that Superman the Animated series is way better than both.
Nobody will follow me on this journey though.
'I am many things Kal-El...but here I am God'
Nobody will follow me on this journey though.
'I am many things Kal-El...but here I am God'
OP
OP
I didn't think about this.
Joker is iconic but Hamill's performance as Ozazi is really good.
Last edited:
I think the first season is pretty strong. The second season is much more uneven and the third season kind of sucks.
The biggest problem is that they just don't have many interesting ideas for the villains in the later half of the show and Superman is a very frustrating fighter to watch because he just slowly reacts and stupidly flies into everything.
also, Harley Quinn >>>>>>>> Livewire
Scarecrow though.
Both are great but I have to give it to Batman. It's impact on animation and DC in general cannot be understated. Those DC animated films still get a lot of attention due to the legacy of the DCAU. No one cares about Marvel animated films even though it's the hottest franchise on the planet.
Avatar is surely amazing though. I watched it after the whole thing ended while I was in college and I was amazed they told a consistent, epic fantasy story through the medium of children's animation.
I do have to ask, why the sudden attention around Avatar? Maybe it's just me but I feel like I am seeing a lot of Avatar discussion online recently and I'm not sure what sparred it.
4. Opportunity to post some more prequel memes
SU is definetely ahead in Soundtrack, but it's just so... self-absorbed and preachy.
It just got put on Netflix. Thats why.
Honestly I haven't seen much of Avatar.
I kinda got put of because it looked like it was geared towards young children.
I guess? I think it dives into a lot of themes practically no other kid's show would touch and was revolutionary for its depiction of LGBT characters in western animation. It's just a show that is really pleasant and chill to watch even if it does get a little... saccharine.
Which would I rather watch right now? Avatar 100%. Batman was a really groundbreaking show with massive cultural ripples, but there are a lot of dumb pointless episodes scattered throughout between the classics. The show has some hard swings.
I disagree strongly with this. Season two of TLA is really, really fucking great. Season three is slightly less good. Is slightly less good than 'really, really fucking great' bad? No. And season three of TLA is still extremely good. With an almost perfect ending and wrap up of the series. One of the best endings there is.
Also, TLA gets much better about five episodes in. Less antics of Aang, it gets more serious.
Of course there are still antics, and if you really don't like the art style at all, there's not much to do about that. But if you like cartoons in any way you're missing out on something great by not watching TLA. And no, I don't like DBZ that much either ;)
Even though they have little in common, I'm gonna chose Avatar because I like a continuous storyline over a serialized one.
That's fantastic obviously.
If your personal media input just isn't limited to (western) animation (that is aimed at kids) though, this point just doesn't really stand out too much i guess.
Compared to atla of course, SU definetely did some things there that atla didn't.
I think why i personally prefer atla is that the entire show is a physical journey to pretty much all the places on a completely fictional planet that is very well crafted.
I do need my scenery sightseeing.
SU has some great sceneries aswell here and there, but
it's mostly just "Get off mah Planet!!!" until they finally pay one visit to Evil HQ and then that's it.
How many episodes in?
Sure but that's apples and oranges. I'm not going to expect Steven Universe to tackle the same themes or have the same depth you might see in a Naoki Urasawa manga, or an HBO drama like the Wire or the Sopranos. When you compare it to other animated American series aimed at kids it was no doubt gamechanging. That's all I'm saying really.
I mean I love both ATLA and SU, I'd probably say I even prefer ATLA but SU will go down as a beloved classic series I'm pretty sure.
I honestly can't remember.
I'm sure I at least gave it the customary three episodes.
Despite the "OK Boomer" type cracks it probably is kind of hard to separate the shows from the times they were made and the times when they were watched.
When I first saw Batman the Animated series I was about ten, riding high on the Burton movies and reading the comics. I couldn't get enough of anything connected to the comics and loved anything that reflected their tone even a bit. It was just after peak Batman mania when people, even where I lived 4 thousand miles away from America, had Batman stickers on their cars and stuff. Batman (and the X-Men show) were like nothing I had seen before in terms of animated programming.
When Avatar came out, I had already seen Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, etc etc. I had started and then left a career as a journalist and was living in Japan. I tried watching it a bit then because of hype on the internet but it didnt take at all and, you know, I dont think it was made for me. I cant compare the experiences of watching either, they are too far apart. It is not really possible to look objectively at art in a bubble.
When I first saw Batman the Animated series I was about ten, riding high on the Burton movies and reading the comics. I couldn't get enough of anything connected to the comics and loved anything that reflected their tone even a bit. It was just after peak Batman mania when people, even where I lived 4 thousand miles away from America, had Batman stickers on their cars and stuff. Batman (and the X-Men show) were like nothing I had seen before in terms of animated programming.
When Avatar came out, I had already seen Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, etc etc. I had started and then left a career as a journalist and was living in Japan. I tried watching it a bit then because of hype on the internet but it didnt take at all and, you know, I dont think it was made for me. I cant compare the experiences of watching either, they are too far apart. It is not really possible to look objectively at art in a bubble.
I'll never understand the love for Avatar but I also admit that I like Batman because I watched it when I was a kid. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug.
I was in college when I watched ATLA after it finished airing and had already seen tons of classic anime, but I still loved it. So I dunno really what age or being knowledgable in anime has to do with enjoying it or not. Like it's just a well done and enjoyable show, regardless of anime or whatever.
I was saying that I dont think you cant really be totally objective about a piece of art and your opinion will reflect on when you encountered it, what your mindset was at the time and when it was made and what was going on then.
I used myself as an example to say why I preferred Batman because it was the right thing at the right time then. Some people looking back might say it was too simple or there have been better Batman media since then but there wasnt at the time and so the impact or rose glasses is strong because of it. On the other hand I couldnt really give Avatar a fair shake when it came out because not only was I not the target audience anymore but many of the aspects that seemed to attract people to it seemed derivative to me at the time.
So I am just explaining my own bias to illustrate my first point that it is very hard to totally separate when, where and how you experienced something from what you think of its overall quality. I am not dunking on Avatar.
