I don't mean to knock TDKR but there is some irony considering the good guys fighting in the end battle are comprised of almost entirely of an army of cops
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Batman himself shows up at protest in Philadelphia
- Thread starter Imperial Bishop
- Start date
Not only that but after it was established that the reason they were able to eradicate organized crime is because they gave police unprecedented power which let them lock up people up on easy charges.
IIRC, the police are not implied to have abused this power in any significant way, which is why it's heroic that they manage to come back to fight Bane's army of goons. Far more is made of the fact that the bill that granted them this power was based on Gordon's lie about Dent, but the issue there seems more of the principle of the thing rather than that Police now can abuse the disadvantaged however they want.
I really love Nolan's TDK saga, but rewatching it will be....something. In general, the last few years have turned the whole Batman fantasy upside down for me. That Batman is a billionaire isn't really just this fun escapist thing anymore now that we are living in such socio-economic disparity. The idea of Jim Gordon being honorable police is suspect at best. He's my favorite hero and life kinda ruined him.
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Yeah...
BLAKE: These men, locked up in Blackgate for eight years, denied parole under the Dent Act. Based on a lie.
GORDON: A lie to keep a city from burning to the ground.
Maybe I haven't seen it recently enough but the message of the film is kind of muddled.
Seeing all these videos I wonder if coronavirus infections will go up among the people protesting
True. But while there can be superficial comparisons of Wayne and Wayne Tower to Trump/Trump Tower, I also can't help but be reminded in TDKR of Trump when Bane takes over Gotham by exploiting populism, and Joker's view - "when the chips are down, these civilized people will eat each other" - seems even more relevant and believable today with political divides seemingly stronger than ever.
edit: Thomas Wayne also says in Batman Begins that "Gotham's been good to our family. But people less fortunate than us are suffering" and is helping fund city initiatives and public transport.
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You know the world is in the toilet when even scenes from kids superhero movies don't seem far fetched anymore.
I not really bothered by the trump connection, since besides the fact that both have a building with their name on it, there's basically no connection. And that's more just a superhero thing in general. Lex has Lex on his tower, Stark has Stark on his tower, it's just a rich person thing in superhero worlds.
What I mean with Batman is that there is no such thing as a good billionaire. They can do all the philanthropic shit they want, a company can only make that kind of money exploiting people. And charity is all well and good, but the reason billionaires need to do charity at all to keep the masses happy is so they don't realize that the things they give them are actually their rights that are being denied. The billionaires of the world could eliminate poverty itself if they used their power to create a socialist system instead of a capitalistic one....but they'd have to give up being billionaires to do so. So if Batman were to truly be a hero, he'd need to give up his money and use it to change the system that gave him all his privilege, effectively eliminating a significant part of the Batman fantasy.
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Well you can have exactly the same issues and more with Tony Stark in the MCU - probably the most popular superhero of 2019, so it's not as if the heroic billionaire superhero isn't a thing so much in 2020 anymore, if we're talking about how the Dark Knight movies have aged. And the trilogy ends with Bruce according to his will giving Wayne Manor to the city on the condition that it be used as a home for at risk and orphaned children.
words can't express how bad this fight aged the moment it left theaters
Billionaire capitalist who doesn't go after white collar criminals that actually destroy society? Also you don't get to become a billionaire without being a villain either.
"I support them protesting for their right to life, long as it doesn't cause property damage", some people priorities are so fucked up.
I mean....yes? I do? I just don't care as much about Tony Stark. He's not my childhood favorite hero. Besides, Tony is far more likely to be republican in his belief system.
I don't like ascribing modern political ideaology to superheroes since 1. They're designed to be both vague and malleable so that they don't alienate people while still being able to change with times, so it's not like it's a legitimate character trait for most of them and 2. even if they were assigned political beliefs, as I've said in other threads, the current incarnation of the GOP isn't based in ideaology or policy or morals, it's based in fascism and Trump's cult of personality, so the normal rules are out the window anyway.
But having said that, with my understanding of Tony as a character, I don't really envision most versions of him actually willing to be sympathetic towards socialist causes. He is, perhaps more than any other hero, a founded on the notion of venture capitalism. Superhero characters are pretty malleable, but it's a stretch for me to think Tony would be willing to dismantle the system that made him.
Compare that to Batman, yes, Bruce was born into wealth and privilege and yes there are versions of him that lean on his wealth, but the very fact that his superhero outfit is just a lot more low tech than something like Iron man's and the fact that many of his skills are centered around being worldly and in contact with the diverse peoples of the world, I find it easier to believe that Bruce would see the many injustices and crippling flaws of capitalism. What he'd do with that information is kind of up to the writers, but I like to think he'd atleast be aware that he has way more wealth than he needs, that other people deserve stability and security in their lives, and he has a moral imperative to provide it, and if that's ever going to succeed on a national level....he can no longer be a billionaire.
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First it's really late for me here so I'm probably not going to put in as much thought or time as I should responding here, so sorry for that. But I was probably wrong to say you can criticize Tony Stark just the same because they're fundamentally different characters.
Tony is a guy who starts as a hardcore Republican and moves more and more left/Democrat as time goes on. Starting with the first Iron Man he's looking at his mistakes and trying to make himself better and use his influence for good. He goes from making missiles to pioneering in green, reneweable energy with the arc reactor. He goes from talking about privatizing world peace to fighting for government oversight of the Avengers. I see him easily being sympathetic to socialist causes by the end of his arc but no, definitely not interested in dismantling the system that made him.
Bruce on the other hand and maybe this is what you can say hasn't aged so well is a much more idealistic version of a heroic billionaire I think. Unlike Stark he doesn't need to fix any past mistakes of his own or his father that came about from a misuse of their power. As a billionaire using his power/money, he's pretty flawless. Which perhaps makes him more unrealistic? On the other hand, Dark Knight Rises also has him putting in all his money into clean renewable energy, and again, ends with him giving Wayne Manor over to poor and orphan kids.
But yeah, we shouldn't think too hard about assigning political ideology to superheroes, and yes I know I'm probably doing that right now. Anyway, I gotta sign off for the night.
I was kind of dreading this. I'm trying to tune out the real time occurrences and pay attention to the developments - the powerful messages. Viewing this from another country, experiencing relative comfort - the impotence of that makes it feel like I'm tuning in for entertainment otherwise.
You see the heinous shit done by racists, by homophobes, by incels - there has never been greater restraint shown for a more valid anger than with black America, and the protests have only reinforced that fact.
That said, if Batman did show up to a protest it would be behind the riot shields, and he and his alter-ego would deserve to be pulled to the ground by his cape for different and equally valid reasons.
You see the heinous shit done by racists, by homophobes, by incels - there has never been greater restraint shown for a more valid anger than with black America, and the protests have only reinforced that fact.
That said, if Batman did show up to a protest it would be behind the riot shields, and he and his alter-ego would deserve to be pulled to the ground by his cape for different and equally valid reasons.
Everything aside, I do find it hilarious that one guy was yelling "HE'S HERE" like he was really gonna do shit lmao
He does? The Court of Owls is one of his most recent popular stories and it's completely about that:
Then you have Black Mask, The Terrible Trio, Rupert Thorne, Derek Powers etc.
You're specifically talking about the MCU iron man, which I can sorta see an argument for, but eh. But I'm talking about the broadstroke entire Iron Man character, of every continuity and the broadstroke entirety of Batman. That's why I emphasize the malleability of these characters, since they differ from incarnation to incarnation. I just think Iron Man is more embedded in his concept towards capitalism than Batman is, but you can have a story where Iron Man leans more leftist or one where Batman goes full right-winger, but it goes more against their core conceit imo than the opposite.
Either way, Batman is just more precious to me, but I can't look at his old identity the same way. I want political change in real life, which means I want political change in my favorite hero as well.
black people being routinely murdered in the street by police is anarchy for black people. Ask yourself, what matters more, some buildings or people's lives
Batman's a billionaire cop, I'm not saying something people haven't heard before but ya know, it feels in really stupid taste
I'm livid at both. And f you for thinking otherwise. Lot or pretentious keyboard warriors cheering on anarchy from the safety of their home.
He's also a socialist that bankrupted his company by pouring money into public works programs.
He's also beaten up his fair share of corrupt cops.
^ that's a cop
I couldn't help but look at this and think of the Spiderman scene.
I understand the cynicism, but it's okay to take a moment sometimes too.
Bruce Wayne would do more to help Gotham by paying a 90% marginal tax rate above a certain amount.
