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Based on how tech has progressed since the Switch, how powerful could a Switch Pro in early 2021 actually be?
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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I think, it's because of these rumours always coming up, that Nvidia is a more "difficult" partner to work with. I always read people claiming their involvement with the original Xbox and PS3 was "bad". It also plays a role that AMD was often praised as a partner for Xbone and PS4...
So I think, because people underappreciate Nvidia's role with the Switch's success, sadly.
I expect a switch Pro to still have 256 cuda cores but they will be based on Turing (without RT) and double the ram bandwidth and a better CPU (a72 cores) all made with 7nm.
Along with smaller bezels and maybe a 1080p screen, it will have about the same battery life as the switch lite, games will aim for 60fps or higher res/settings, for example doom will be 1080p DLSS 60fps handheld and 1080p 60fps docked
Along with smaller bezels and maybe a 1080p screen, it will have about the same battery life as the switch lite, games will aim for 60fps or higher res/settings, for example doom will be 1080p DLSS 60fps handheld and 1080p 60fps docked
The Tegra X1 (Switch) has the same size as Apple's A12X and they use TMSC for their Chips.
No more than 3x if we consider a battery with similar size.
Still less power than a XOne, but with slightly more efficient techniques for shading and upscaling.
Still less power than a XOne, but with slightly more efficient techniques for shading and upscaling.
32 Tensor cores probably isn't enough for DLSS, also while a 256 Cuda core part would be cheap, it's size on 7nm would be very very tiny, performance wise, you'd be looking at something like 500gflops portable and 900gflops docked, might as well just stick with Mariko imo.
3x Switch (1.2tflops) matches the PS4 base model, portably you'd be looking at 700gflops which Mariko on 12nm can surely hit, it's actually lower than the Tegra X2's 750gflops little reason to expect something like that imo.
Maybe a 512 cuda core Mariko would be what they do.
If Nintendo do a pro model I don't think it will be a radical design change, if we judge by there history,
if they're building a new soc, they're not gonna use old designs. it's not gonna resemble the X1 at all. but that leads to the issue of spending money now when they'll have to spend money again in the near future for a Switch 2 design
Yes, but the Switch generates its flops more efficiently than XBO/PS4 era hardware. So 3x the OG Switch power will put it roughly equal to PS4.
I look at it like the ps4 Pro + X1X, Nintendo won't want to be doing much for a switch Pro, they wilo raise the clocks + add more cu's, the gpu might be an upgraded architecture if nvidia have that available for them, but Nintendo won't want to push the boat out to much, they will want improved framerate and resolution for the lowest cost possible.
Whatever the computational power of the Switch 2/Pro will be, it's going to be a completely custom SoC right? We now know that Nintendo is using largely off the shelf Tegra X1 SoCs for the Switch, but I don't believe Nvidia has any obvious successor that Nintendo can easily customize or use as a base for their next system. So I'm guessing they'll have to work with Nvidia to design a custom SoC for the next device.
Imagine a Switch 2 with A76 cores, 8 GB of RAM, an Ampere based GPU, and a 1080p OLED display.
Imagine a Switch 2 with A76 cores, 8 GB of RAM, an Ampere based GPU, and a 1080p OLED display.
I think a switch Pro will be a tx1 in its final form and a switch 2 will be a new SoC made specifically for the switch 2.
Nvidias products are dictated by there biggest customers and now Nintendo is a massive customer for them.
I think the triple whammy of small size, battery life, and price point will limit how far the handheld aspect of the Switch 2 can be pushed. However, perhaps a more significant jump in power will be possible in docked console mode.
Ah, of course. We're talking about nvida flops here. Makes sense.
The key to a Switch pro is designing the handheld to be docked with an eGPU in mind. That way the portable has a marginal increase while still having reasonable cost. Add a dock that does the heavy lifting and you are well into PS4 Pro levels and still very much cost effective.
Remember the jump from Nintendo DS to DSi? It would be exactly like that and not an ounce more. Don't expect a decent jump in performance until Switch 2. And at most that will reach the power of almost a base XBO. No 4K either.
Yeah, apple is consistently at 1-2 years ahead of the competition in GPU. The snapdragon 865 this year for 2020 for Android flagships are capable of 1.2 TFLOPs.
List of Qualcomm Snapdragon systems on chips - Wikipedia
Maybe. The cost of carts is also a big factor/bottleneck. We'd definitely got more games running at higher resolutions and frame rates for sure.
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2011 AMD GCN vs 2020 Nvidia architecture.
I don't really think it is a Pro model anymore, Nikkei described it as a next gen Switch, and I am starting to think that even if it was planned for spring next year, it might be delayed because of the virus going around China right now, in fact there is a chance next gen consoles are delayed from 2020 too, we'll have to wait and see, but I think now that we are talking about 4+ years, we should expect a fairly next gen like jump. Something like XB1 to XB1X which was over 4x the performance, switch can do that across the board as I've mentioned many times and if they also lean on DLSS, they can multiply that performance increase by 4 again, which would make next gen ports well within reason.
I don't think Nintendo is going to break the platform for more powerful hardware, especially now that they think streaming is going to be the standard before the end of the decade, they will put out a more powerful Switch and start working on streaming games to the current model in a few years when cross gen ends.
1080p portable requires a 2.5x performance increase, I think they will just go with a 4x increase but this isn't unreasonable if all they were doing was introducing a pro model, I don't think that is the case any more.
A 4X increase is in line with the xb1x upgrade and would offer xb1 performance as a portable and something greater than ps4 when docked. With DLSS tricks, docked could handle next gen ports with better fidelity than current Switch can do current generation.
I think a 2020 switch Pro would 2x switch performance,
A 2022 switch 2 will be 6x switch and 3x switch Pro.
unfortunately, it feels like the days of benching mobile gpus is slowing. there's the usual benches, but they're only compared to other phones. there are benchmarks that are for phones and pcs, but I don't really find any results for them
While mobile tech advancement is now slowing, fortunately there's still probably another large jump to be had over Tegra X1, which is 2014 technology (codenamed Erista in March 2014) and revealed in January 2015. It would soon to be found in Shield TV before making its way into Switch.
nvidianews.nvidia.com
www.anandtech.com
NVIDIA Launches Tegra X1 Mobile Super Chip
NVIDIA today unveiled Tegra® X1, its next-generation mobile super chip with over one teraflops of processing power – delivering capabilities that open the door to unprecedented graphics and...
nvidianews.nvidia.com
NVIDIA Announces Jetson TK1 Dev Board; Adds Erista To Tegra Roadmap
Lol you live in a delusional world. Not to be mean or anything but just compare the 3DS and 3DS XL and there's really not much of a difference. I dont expect much of a powerhouse for a Pro, remember that anyway, all the games that need to work on the Pro, need to be adjusted to work on the normal switch AND Lite
Well most people don't think the switch Pro will be a 3ds xl level upgrade, so I think it's you who may be living in a delusional world.
You really think Nintendo will release a switch with just a bigger screen and better CPU which only makes a few games not work on older switch models?
What does even 2x Switch performance really mean? You can't really mesure a console in term of power like that. Also Nintendo stated they wont have an upgrade in 2020 so i dont know why you stick to it. I honestly believe will make a Switch 2 instead of a Switch Pro probably around end of 2021 or early 2022
I mean, Sony and MS did actually have bad experiences working with Nvidia, though they both somewhat have themselves to blame. MS for being new and Sony for waiting until the last minute to put an actual GPU inside the PS3. Even Nintendo seems to have gotten disappointed by Nvidia at some point, if those Tegra 3DS devkits that are floating around are any indication. Of those, probably only the 3DS one was fully Nvidia's fault, but it's not hard to see how that would have built a not entirely unearned reputation of being hard to work with.
The DSi had twice the CPU clock and 4x the RAM. That would be a pretty decent jump for the Switch, though it would probably need similar bump to the GPU as well (the DSi GPU probably only went untouched because it was a pretty custom very fixed function design).
wonder how much different the 3DS's library would have looked if it had UE3 support. granted, UE3 was very inefficient on lower end hardware. it wasn't until late in its life that it got proper mobile support. Switch definitely benefits from UE4's optimizing for mobile hardware (though Unity still seems superior at this)
What I want just from Switch Pro has nothing to do with graphics or performance, although those things are nice . . . . I really want the joycons to be upgraded to "pro" versions. Grips, bigger buttons and sticks, better triggers, and an actual quality dpad on the left. Give me that plus a slight power boost and I'm sold.
I'm easy to please.
I'm easy to please.
Probably a lot more like the launch software, indie software would have been giant on the 3ds as well. We wouldn't have the same Nintendo we have now though, 3DS's failure is what led to that day where Nintendo announced they were going mobile and working on the NX. If 3DS didn't failure out of the gate, Nintendo never would have botched the Wii U's first year as badly as they had, and there was no coming back from 2013's software output for the Wii U.
The modular nature of the Switch means I think they could separate the "larger console" and "graphical uplift" audiences. The former could potentially be marketed as a way for families to play tabletop on the go while the latter would appeal to more of the "core gamers" who also like Nintendo franchises. However, I think their aim is to have a three-pronged approach: a high-end, middle-end and entry level system at all times. Previously the three were Switch, 2DS XL and 2DS. Now it's Switch, Switch Lite and 2DS XL.
Assuming no significant inflation here's a pricing/progression structure that would allow for their 10+ year Switch lifecycle:
2020: DOCK PLUS is released alongside BotW2 ideally or otherwise a big holiday title for a $149 package, a bit like a more expensive version of how SS launched WiiMotionPlus, or $99 sold separately. The base model Switch is upgraded to DOCK PLUS and remains at $299.
2021: SWITCH XL launches - metal casing, integrated controls, slightly larger screen. Sells for $299 on its own but unlike the Lite can be docked on Dock Plus to make a stronger console (maybe even 1280p at 60fps on a good day). There are two $399 packages: SWITCH TABLETOP which includes the XL, two joycon and Mario Kart; and SWITCH PRO which includes the pro controller, Dock Plus and BotW2.
2022: SWITCH GO launches. It's a version of the Switch with a much-reduced bezel, slightly lighter and with a portable dock. A slight uplift built in much like the 2019 revision. $299. OG Switch discontinued.
2023: SWITCH ULTRA LITE launches; it may incorporate some new technology but its focus is being lighter overall with a reduced bezel again. $199. The original Lite drops to $99.
2024: The Go and XL drop to $249. The Ultra Lite drops to $149, Lite to $69.
2025: SWITCH 2: $349. The XL is discontinued, the Go drops to $199 and the Ultra Lite to $99.
2026: The original Lite is discontinued and the UltraLite $99 includes a pack-in title.
2027: SWITCH 2LITE releases at $199. Switch 2 drops to $299, the Go is discontinued. The UltraLite drops to $69.
Around 2028-29, the UltraLite is discontinued thereby ending the original generation Switch family of systems after 12 years.
Assuming no significant inflation here's a pricing/progression structure that would allow for their 10+ year Switch lifecycle:
2020: DOCK PLUS is released alongside BotW2 ideally or otherwise a big holiday title for a $149 package, a bit like a more expensive version of how SS launched WiiMotionPlus, or $99 sold separately. The base model Switch is upgraded to DOCK PLUS and remains at $299.
2021: SWITCH XL launches - metal casing, integrated controls, slightly larger screen. Sells for $299 on its own but unlike the Lite can be docked on Dock Plus to make a stronger console (maybe even 1280p at 60fps on a good day). There are two $399 packages: SWITCH TABLETOP which includes the XL, two joycon and Mario Kart; and SWITCH PRO which includes the pro controller, Dock Plus and BotW2.
2022: SWITCH GO launches. It's a version of the Switch with a much-reduced bezel, slightly lighter and with a portable dock. A slight uplift built in much like the 2019 revision. $299. OG Switch discontinued.
2023: SWITCH ULTRA LITE launches; it may incorporate some new technology but its focus is being lighter overall with a reduced bezel again. $199. The original Lite drops to $99.
2024: The Go and XL drop to $249. The Ultra Lite drops to $149, Lite to $69.
2025: SWITCH 2: $349. The XL is discontinued, the Go drops to $199 and the Ultra Lite to $99.
2026: The original Lite is discontinued and the UltraLite $99 includes a pack-in title.
2027: SWITCH 2LITE releases at $199. Switch 2 drops to $299, the Go is discontinued. The UltraLite drops to $69.
Around 2028-29, the UltraLite is discontinued thereby ending the original generation Switch family of systems after 12 years.
I don't think there will be a switch 2, just incremental upgrades gradually dropping support for the older models on a game by game basis.
This sounds way too convoluted. Considering switch is a part home console, I don't think we will see as many revisions as handheld generations like 3ds.
Nintendo also said they were not releasing another switch in 2019 but we got the lite.
And if you don't understand what 2x the power means then I don't really know what to say, it's very simple language.
we will probably just see 3 revisions during each generation.
1. Switch x release
2. Switch x revision + Switch x Lite, 2 years after original release
3. Switch x hardware revision 4 years after original release
Last year they said that they would not be announcing any new models at E3 last year to the press. They announced the Switch Lite about a month after E3.
This year they said that they have no plans to release new models of the Switch in 2020 to investors. They could release a Switch model early in 2021.
The Corona Virus puts all of this stuff into question a bit more, does Sony and Microsoft have to delay their next gen consoles to Spring next year? Does Nintendo who is having trouble shipping Switch consoles to Asia and Japan, (Europe and America seem to have some surplus supply from the holidays) change when they can release a new model of the Switch, would they simply want to let next generation consoles launch in Spring and they wait until the holiday season next year instead?
We've also already heard there was a delay to this version of the Switch via Nikkei, so what if because of these new delays, they decide to hold out further. It comes down to YoY sales IMO, and if next gen consoles do not launch this year, there is no way that Switch is down YoY, I doubt it would be down anyways, but they don't even need to drop the price if new hardware isn't coming from their competitors. That means they can save the price cut for next year and so a new Switch model could actually wait until 2022, the benefit here is cross gen games are going to last about 2 years, so if next gen consoles come spring 2021, cross gen won't dry up until 2023 minimum... A Switch 2 coming in 2023 could be drastically more powerful than a Switch coming in 2021 or 2022, simply because 5nm will be widely available and would offer ~12 to 15 Billion transistors for a Switch to play around with, far better performance and higher clocks than 7nm too. You could start to see 2TFLOPs portable and 4 to 5 tflops docked, DLSS can still be a thing too, so at that point you could see them matching next gen consoles if that is where they are going... There is just a lot more performance behind 5nm.
If next gen consoles launch this year, I think 2021 for a new more powerful Switch still makes a lot of sense around a 4x performance increase, but if you have YoY growth for the next 2 years without a more powerful model being introduced, you can look to about twice that performance in 2023.
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I thought the PS4 was 1.8TF and the XOne was 1.4.
https://www.eurogamer.pt/articles/2016-09-08-ps4-pro-vs-ps4-slim-vs-xbox-one-s
He's saying 1.2 NVidia 2020 TF would be equivalent to 1.8 AMD 2013 TF.
And the Vega 64 is 12.66TFLOPs
And the RTX 2070 is 7.465TFLOPs
AMD GFLOPs =! Nvidia GFLOPs, especially 2011 AMD GFLOPs found in the PS4.
Despite the 393GFLOPs number, the Switch docked without mixed precision is about 1/3rd as powerful as a PS4, and just under half as powerful as a XB1. With mixed precision Switch is about 2/3rd of an XB1 and 1/2 of a PS4... CPU is about equal to 45% for it's 4 cores vs PS4 base console's 8 cores. Memory bandwidth is saturated pretty quickly with CPU and GPU both working hard though, which is a huge hindrance to overall performance when used mixed precision especially when CPU is being utilized towards 100%.
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Considering technologies and how Nintendo prefer proven techs it would be:
2012 AMD TF vs Nvidia 2017 TF
Nintendo used the Tegra X1 which is late 2014 tech. If we believe that Nintendo is putting out a Pro device in 2021, then that would correspond to late 2018 tech for a Pro when extrapolated.
Yeah, well, basically none of what people are saying about Xbox and PS3 wrt NV is true.
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