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Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I'm trying to adjust the gamma settings in the Evil Within 2 on PS4 and I never quite know what to do with the gamma/brightness options in games. It's driving me nuts.

If I adjust TEW2 per instructions, it goes down to 0 gamma and the game becomes real dark. On the other hand, I don't know if the default setting is how the game is supposed to look like. I wish games were clearer about this stuff.

On a calibrated TV, do you just leave it at the default? Or do you adjust it per the game instructions? Or something else entirely?
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
Um. I generally just leave it in the middle.

It's a simple yet elegant and flawless technique that has never let me down.
 

wondermagenta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
Cologne
I always leave it at the default settings in every single game. I don't know what's up with the recommendations you tend to get at the start, but I always find them so dark to the point that I can't even imagine that that's the intent. I tend to use screens from handheld devices like the Switch or the Wii U as a sort of reference point when calibrating my TV, and you're not gonna find games looking as crazy dark as the gamma suggestions in a lot of other titles would imply on those either.
 

cpcz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
377
New Donk CIty
i0MPdQU.png
 

Mavrick07

Member
Oct 28, 2017
398
I never adjust them but the fact that most of them tell you to adjust the setting so that something is barely visible always makes me laugh because if I did what they asked I wouldn't be able to see 90% of whats on the screen. Would love to know their reasoning on this.
 

Sprat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,684
England
I find a lot of my friends that complain about the recommended calibration being too dark also have things like black enhancer and dynamic contrast on which makes it even darker.
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,696
Tacoma, Washington
I always wonder what each developers' definition of "barely visible" is, as it seems to vary wildly. I'll usually play with the slider to darken the screen a bit, but sometimes I can toggle it all the way down with the logo still very visible.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,847
I'm trying to adjust the gamma settings in the Evil Within 2 on PS4 and I never quite know what to do with the gamma/brightness options in games. It's driving me nuts.

If I adjust TEW2 per instructions, it goes down to 0 gamma and the game becomes real dark. On the other hand, I don't know if the default setting is how the game is supposed to look like. I wish games were clearer about this stuff.

On a calibrated TV, do you just leave it at the default? Or do you adjust it per the game instructions? Or something else entirely?

Don't adjust it to the point the black crush is too noticeable. Make it so you can see easily but still keep a dark environment. The gamma setting wasn't even working well for me on PC as it would reduce the brightness of windows
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,598
I always wonder what each developers' definition of "barely visible" is, as it seems to vary wildly. I'll usually play with the slider to darken the screen a bit, but sometimes I can toggle it all the way down with the logo still very visible.

You can also adjust your TV/monitor 's brightness settings to reach barely visible. It makes sense that the expectation of how bright the image should be (based on the barely visible) would change depending on the game.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I always tweak it but if it's one of those where it makes the whites and blacks greyish where it looks washed out, then I stop and leave it where it is.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I find a lot of my friends that complain about the recommended calibration being too dark also have things like black enhancer and dynamic contrast on which makes it even darker.

For me, and what prompted the thread, was a worry that the default gamma is too high and that would result in me losing some of the amtosphere and feel of a horror title. The only thing I have enabled that effects dark areas is local dimming.

I always wonder what each developers' definition of "barely visible" is, as it seems to vary wildly. I'll usually play with the slider to darken the screen a bit, but sometimes I can toggle it all the way down with the logo still very visible.

Yea, I never quite understood what it means either. Do all the details need to be barely visible or just the general image? Because those are often two different settings.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I know what you mean man. With plenty of games this setting is just crap. They tell you to lower brightness until you don't see a icon anymore but sometimes you have these cases where no matter how far back you put the slider, you'll still see it. Keep it at default I say.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,791
I usually just leave it alone, since it tends to not look right if I adjust it very much.
 

Juste

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
298
Presumably 50+ million dollar AAA productions have professionally calibrated monitors, if not a "mastering" department that all target their SRGB environments gamma of 2.22 for SDR.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Bumping this because I'm trying to play Witcher 3 with HDR. Default gamma in the game is way too dark. It's like playing a game with incorrect RGB settings and crushed blacks.

I've been trying to tune it but I can't figure out what "barely visible" means... still. And if I do the gamma setting to where I can just "clearly" see the wolf, it's a vastly different setting than if I calibrate it to where I can just make a faint outline of the wolf out.

Ugh, why is the gamma in this game borked? It's so frustrating.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,219
Bumping this up, it's a years old topic but that's still a problem because devs keep doing it. Had this problem three times in a row now where if I adjust it to the setting it wants me to then the game is way to dark and I lose out on seeing a lot of details.

The latest was with the Resident Evil 2 remake where I get the game is dark on purpose, but when adjusted to those setting, I can barely see anything in the cutscenes besides the characters themselves and some of the big objects, it's just too dark and it feels like I'm losing out on lot of neat details that are just viable. RE2R is worse in this regard then most because their are three brightness settings really poorly explained, 2 of which are the obnoxious barely visible and the third not to see an image at all.

I really do wish devs would just not make brightness and gamma settings work like that, I don't really get why it became the norm this gen when it's not useful. Like JUST DEFINE WHAT BARELY VISIBLE MEANS!?!? Like said about, " "at a glance", or "squint but can still see it" ", like why is like small image of what it wants difficult to ask for?
 
Oct 25, 2017
727
I feel like every modern tv or monitor features some dynamic lightning or something. It would be nice to know what devs were referencing
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Destiny 2 in the dark is completely invisible on console, where it's no issue on pc. I always turn brightness up pretty far in games before it gets too washed out or looks like that patrick meme. Games are calibrated weird these days.
 

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,692
So the whole point of ingame brightness settings is to compensate for your TV's settings being wrong. With a TV with a correct image you basically never have to change the default brightness setting in the game. Some cheaper TVs can't be calibrated into having a correct image so they will always need brightness adjustment in the game.

I always leave my games at the default setting because my TV settings are very close to perfect.

Like others said, if you have set dynamic contrast (really anything that changes according to the scene) then turn it off before doing the ingame brightness setting.
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
It depends on your display, that's why it's adjustable... there's no "right" universal setting.
 

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,692
"Barely visible" isn't that hard to understand. What they mean is to turn the brightness setting down to the image being invisible. Then turn it up. The first step where it is no longer invisible but you can see there is something there which isn't the black background is "barely visible".

Now this might be too dark for you but then there is probably some setting on your tv to blame for this. Dynamic contrast or just regular contrast being set too high. Or the HDMI dynamic range is set to high when it should be low or vice versa.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I think this is set up so you can have 40% black crush and 40% white crush, therefore only colors 140-200 are visible and have extreme banding. Developers only intend games to be viewed at 8 bit color.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,678
Fundamentally it is to try and ensure that there is a seperation between something that is pure black and something that is not. However this perception changes upon your viewing environment.
So when a game is asking you to set it , it's wanting to adjust the brightness so that no black data is lost for the viewer.

If you have a calibrated display, then you may have a setup for a bright and dark room , as well as having black point set correctly, so that no clipping occurs/it isn't raised beyond where it should be to begin with.
Obviously unlikely TVs and Movies, games offer the ability to change their output internally, in order to try and optimise themselves a little.

Personally I find it easiest to turn it down to the lowest, then increase it until i first see it (which helps to prevent retinal retension from all the staring)

Of course, incorrect display settings, dynamic settings and other bits and bobs that people have enable will interfere with this setup. It might seem right on the setup screen, but then be wrong in game.
Of course, the game can have a bit of a funny setup too, it's not unique to HDR games, plenty of games handle this in an unorthodox fashion.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,989
So the whole point of ingame brightness settings is to compensate for your TV's settings being wrong. With a TV with a correct image you basically never have to change the default brightness setting in the game. Some cheaper TVs can't be calibrated into having a correct image so they will always need brightness adjustment in the game.
I always leave my games at the default setting because my TV settings are very close to perfect.
I would say that it used to be the case where you should probably ignore the settings if you have a calibrated display, but particularly with games that support HDR now -even if you are playing in SDR- you often have to follow the instructions for the image to look good. And you certainly have to if you are playing in HDR.

The default settings for Resident Evil 2 in SDR look like this:
srgb-default-q9jmt.jpg


Compared to a calibrated sRGB image:
srgb-min-1-nxkmb.jpg


Or BT.709:
rec709-9ljui.jpg


By following their instructions, these are the "objectively correct" settings for the game if your display is calibrated, because that's the only point at which the image in their instructions disappears.
But many people - even those with calibrated displays, such as EvilBoris - thought this was too dark, and some of the later areas in the game are certainly darker than the station.
I believe if you're playing in HDR, there's no way to get an image that looks like the ones above, since a raised black level seems to be an aesthetic choice.

Based on its name, the BT.709 option is what should be used on calibrated televisions - and probably most displays, since few if any monitors are actually calibrated to the sRGB transfer curve even if they have an "sRGB" preset.
sRGB also specifies specific brightness and black level values, and those are never used. For example: my monitor's sRGB preset locks out the brightness control, but at a value which is significantly higher than the sRGB spec, and with a 2.2 gamma curve rather than the sRGB transfer function.

Based on the output shown above though, I question whether the game's sRGB and BT.709 nomenclature is accurate.
  • The sRGB transfer function is linear near black, giving it a slight boost in brightness to the darkest shades - probably because it was intended for use with CRTs.
  • BT.709 implies a 2.4 gamma on the display (if the display has sufficiently deep black levels) which is darker than sRGB.
And yet the output from the game is the opposite of what I would expect to see.
  • Since sRGB lightens the image near black, I would expect the sRGB output to be darker to compensate for this; but it's lighter.
  • Since a 2.4 gamma darkens the image, I would expect the game's BT.709 output to be lighter to compensate for this; but it's darker.
It's like they labelled them wrong, or just put arbitrary labels on the settings.
It's better than the mess they had in Resident Evil 7, but which one is correct?

"Barely visible" isn't that hard to understand. What they mean is to turn the brightness setting down to the image being invisible. Then turn it up. The first step where it is no longer invisible but you can see there is something there which isn't the black background is "barely visible".
The problem with that, is that "invisible" can be arbitrary and subjective.
This test pattern alternates between #000000 and #010101 (I prefer creating animated test patterns rather than using static images for this).

black-4k-pqj60.gif


If I display it on my television that uses a VA-type LCD panel -which most televisions do- it is effectively invisible.
It looks like a solid black screen due to the way that viewing angles work on high-contrast VA-type LCD panels. VA-type LCDs are very contrasted when viewed on-axis - to the point of "black crush" - and that tapers off quickly at an angle.
Here's an over-exposed photograph of a 5000:1 native VA-type LCD display, showing how only the very center of the image shows anything like the rated contrast of the panel - which gets narrower the closer you are to the display.
fg2421-contrastb8k6n.jpg


Why does that matter?
Well the test pattern looks like a solid black image when I view it on-axis. But if I get off-axis and view it from the side, the pattern is clearly visible. The signal is being displayed on the panel. Even moving your head a bit off-center can make the pattern visible.
If I raise the brightness control even one more notch, the black level of the display is very noticeably raised; but it takes an increase of several notches before that test pattern is clearly distinct from the background when viewed on-axis.
So what is correct? The panel measures perfect gamma tracking using a meter, but subjectively shadow detail is crushed. And the only way to bring that shadow detail back is to either raise the black level or tweak near-black gamma subjectively.

This is one of the many reasons why I dislike VA-type LCD panels, despite how the contrast rating compares to IPS.
The subjective contrast is far less than the objective measurement, and all its other problems make it an easy choice to go with IPS rather than VA for me (or OLED if you're buying a large display).
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
Bumping this because I'm trying to play Witcher 3 with HDR. Default gamma in the game is way too dark. It's like playing a game with incorrect RGB settings and crushed blacks.

I've been trying to tune it but I can't figure out what "barely visible" means... still. And if I do the gamma setting to where I can just "clearly" see the wolf, it's a vastly different setting than if I calibrate it to where I can just make a faint outline of the wolf out.

Ugh, why is the gamma in this game borked? It's so frustrating.

I know this comment is almost 2y old but since the thread got bumped I just want to say that Witcher 3, Devil May Cry 5 and Nioh all had black crush in my experience.

I calibrated my TV with a blu-ray disc (Disney WOW) that I bought back when I got PS4 and all the other games are perfect (as in when I go to the brightness settings the test images are slighty visible as intended). Those 3 were the only ones that were wrong and had to be tweaked in-game.