Barack Obama on Broad Slogans: "You lose people with 'snappy' slogans like 'defund the police'"

[Masterz1337]

This is some weak shit from the democratic establishment. Just because turn-out was high for the republicans due to the Trump cult they've gone all coy on progressive agendas. Not like it would've taken much for them to go that way though, moderates generally look for any excuse to throw progressive plans under the bus. Any talk about police reform would be twisted.

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To be fair, the way elections are won is by getting the support of the largest amount of voters. There's always this mythical "voter who will now vote for the first time" for the cause, and in 2020 we saw this to be true, but we saw it equally on both sides so it didn't really matter in how people expected it. It did yield results in parts of Georgia and such, but also Republican erosion in rural areas factored in too. You can't just sink your teeth into one sect of people to expect to win. So yeah, we need to court the small amount of voters who could vote either way, and also attract new ones. But if we only attract new ones, then we lose the ability to win congressional seats. I don't think its crazy to assume that BLM protests may have galvanized people in rural areas to vote red getting them congressional seats, while also galvanized cities to vote blue, which def helped in PA and GA win electoral votes.

 

[Deleted member 82064]

Never got the defund the police slogan. Especially when most people didn't actually mean what they were saying. Defund has specific meaning and if you have to twist that meaning and explain in detail what you actually mean, then you don't have good slogan in your hands. Not to mention there were people who actually meant defund the police.

 

[Eeyore]

Defund the Police is a terrible slogan. It sounds needlessly extreme and scary to the average person.

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Kinda like the average police officer.

 

[Rockets]

dude has some seriously skewed takes of his own when it comes to law enforcement

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Found this in the replies



"Crowley came across as thoughtful, decent man, while Skip was on his best behavior." Wow. He talks about a grown black professor like he's a petulant child. Honestly this is one of the most blatantly racist things I've seen recently and the fact that it's Obama saying it.. Jesus Christ

 

[Bonafide]

it's amazing how "pragmatics" always shit on things people in their base want but are unpopular but when other people do the work, put the time in to change how society views it then they stand behind it.

fuck outta here man.

 

[ToddBonzalez]

Getting murdered by the police also sounds extreme and scary so that seems an apt response.

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Yeah no doubt, but you'd prefer defunding the police had broad public support, right?

 

[Izzard]

Thanks for your input, war criminal.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like these people that are screaming "Defund the police" are maybe in a better position to know what kind of stuff they want to yell than... well, Obama ?

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Surely the input of a very popular figure who won the presidency twice has a good idea about what the public wants though?

I'm not that knowledgable about US politics, but he is a well loved figure still isn't he?

 

[addik]

Listen, I agree with Obama that broad slogans may be less effective, but you also have to balance it out with the effects of using softer language aka: "Defund the police" actually implies that the police force is unjustifiably overbudgeted especially in comparison to social services. "Reform the police" may work, but it doesn't really show how systems at work in the police force propagate violence and hatred, especially towards minorities.

But it's definitely a struggle to get that message across, but softening the language may not get anything done as well.

 

[Pollux]

I mean, the original message was "abolish the police". People only changed it to "defund the police" when people started complaining exacetly like what's heppening now. And if we did change it do "reform the police", I'd suspect we'd get remarks that it needs to be "help the police" instead. Which at that point, congrats, we've succesfully marketed the phrase to a point where it's the exact opposite of its original meaning.

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Yeah, that's a fair point and at a certain point you do need to draw a line. But there needs to be a balance between actually getting your message across and not going so far that you've completely changed that message.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Enjoy losing to Republicans I guess.

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George Floyd was killed in a city ran almost entirely by democrats.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Chicago Police find drugs less then 5% of time in police raids News

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/they-had-the-guns-pointed-at-me-another-chicago-family-wrongly-raided-just-1-month-after-police-created-policy-to-stop-bad-raids/

www.resetera.com

why exactly are people pretending the police having outlandish budgets that could be going to actually beneficial social services is a good thing?


I think it's because they are much more comfortable with the way things are than they are with the idea that things would change.


let's be honest; if "defund the police" doesn't sit well with you, you probably aren't the person who feels threatened by police

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I'm not saying it isn't? The question is whether the messaging from the slogan is effective, and while yes, black people constantly have an uphill battle when it comes to any sort of equal rights in this country, "defund the police" is very simple to counter with shit arguments that will be eaten up by a large chunk of people.

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It's not the responsibility of activists to hand-wring about what plays poorly with suburban Karens. They are concerned about the survival of people in their communities, so they demand what they believe is necessary for their own safety and prosperity. The messaging is effective because it conveys their demands, whether or not some people are uncomfortable with those demands is kind of irrelevant to the manner in which they are made. Making people uncomfortable is the point.

Snappy as in poorly thought out? Because that's 100% the truth considering some insisted it meant only meant defund while many others insisted it was a call to get rid of cops period.

There was no confusion around Abolish ICE as poorly received it was. Yes we can and Make America great again didnt have its supporters divided on the meaning either.

There is no argument that says funding changes cant be a part of police reforms.

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If there is no argument that says that then why concern troll about defund the police? It's one of many demands being made by activists.

 

[Tfritz]

Never got the defund the police slogan.

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it means they want to reduce funding for police departments

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

Could he even do anything with Republicans blocking everything he did?

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Executive actions are a thing. No?

Also anyone saying it's the slogan that's the problem needs to watch the John Oliver segment on how better slogans won't fix this (time stamp @ 29 minutes):

 

[Hecht]

Would you have told BLM activists to change their slogan because it was bad messaging?

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I would never tell the groups affected to "change their slogan," especially things like BLM because again, it makes perfect sense to those that have an ounce of common sense. But take the graph you posted - BLM started back with Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, and that graph doesn't start going up into roughly four years after the fact. Those four years were spent basically trying to convince simple minded fools that BLM doesn't mean that other lives don't matter.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

let's be honest; if "defund the police" doesn't sit well with you, you probably aren't the person who feels threatened by police

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Yup

 

[freetacos]

The "bad slogan" argument was done in bad faith for BLM, and it is done in bad faith here. We literally have data that shows people did not support Black Lives Matter years ago but overwhelmingly do now, and the "slogan" hasn't changed. Fuck outta here with that

 

[RedMercury]

It's a bad slogan when you have to explain what it means.

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We need good vague slogans that activate emotions but ultimately mean nothing like "Make America Great Again" and "Hope" and "Change", those have worked out well

Mad disappointed in this forum right about now :/

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

He's kinda right. You don't want a slogan that can be easily twisted by your opponent to mean something else that they can use against you.

It's not necessarily about slogans making people lose because clearly some slogans work (Yes We Can, MAGA 🤮) but it's about carefully choosing a slogan that can't be easily twisted by your opponents. It's all about politics and I get where he's coming from.

 

[Bonafide]

Never got the defund the police slogan. Especially when most people didn't actually mean what they were saying. Defund has specific meaning and if you have to twist that meaning and explain in detail what you actually mean, then you don't have good slogan in your hands. Not to mention there were people who actually meant defund the police.

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because saying you're going to "reform" something means nothing. super weak language. from a politician's stand point they like that language because it means they can just move around without standing on specific policy.

 

[Bear Patrol]

Obama again steering to a center that only exists in his head and not in reality.

Nah. I never said anything about that. But I will continue to say it's a terrible fucking message if you need an interview in MSNBC with Joy Reid to explain that the slogan actually means we should send people other than the police to certain calls and that maybe a cop with a gun shouldn't be going to mental health call outs. But hey, keep trying to tell me I'm tone policing and trying to shut down discussions.

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Of course you'd say that given that you're apparently a prosecutor from Kentucky. Trusting someone in your position to take any sort of hard stance on police brutality is the real joke, especially given that you also don't seem to care too much about worker abuse. Not surprised that you're in here trying to deflect and tone police.

 

[freetacos]

Chicago Police find drugs less then 5% of time in police raids News

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/they-had-the-guns-pointed-at-me-another-chicago-family-wrongly-raided-just-1-month-after-police-created-policy-to-stop-bad-raids/

www.resetera.com

why exactly are people pretending the police having outlandish budgets that could be going to actually beneficial social services is a good thing?


I think it's because they are much more comfortable with the way things are than they are with the idea that things would change.


let's be honest; if "defund the police" doesn't sit well with you, you probably aren't the person who feels threatened by police

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fantastic post

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

We need good vague slogans that activate emotions but ultimately mean nothing like "Make America Great Again" and "Hope" and "Change", those have worked out well

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Just go completely positive lol

Improve the Police

 

[AusGeno]

Thanks for your input, war criminal.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like these people that are screaming "Defund the police" are maybe in a better position to know what kind of stuff they want to yell than... well, Obama ?

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How many elections did they win? How many policies have they enacted? I think he's absolutely entitled to offer advice in this space.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with the goals of the Defund movement, it's just really shitty marketing that works against them.

 

[Neece]

Republicans continue to have a much easier time controlling the narrative and messaging to the average american.

 

[RedMercury]

Just go completely positive lol

Improve the Police

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Haha but to polite there should be a "Please" in there and maybe a "If it's not too inconvenient"

 

[Pekola]

Personally, I don't get why Obama doesn't utilize his huge platform to unequivocally support the activists and signal-boost them. Instead he's wonking it up.

It's weird to me, but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised considering the kind of man he is.

 

[Pollux]

Obama again steering to a center that only exists in his head and not in reality.



Of course you'd say that given that you're apparently a prosecutor from Kentucky. Trusting someone in your position to take any sort of hard stance on police brutality is the real joke, especially given that you also don't seem to care too much about worker abuse. Not surprised that you're in here trying to deflect and tone police.

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You have yet to refute the fact that it's a bad slogan if you need an interview to actually explain what you mean.

 

[Rockets]

Obama again steering to a center that only exists in his head and not in reality.



Of course you'd say that given that you're apparently a prosecutor from Kentucky. Trusting someone in your position to take any sort of hard stance on police brutality is the real joke, especially given that you also don't seem to care too much about worker abuse. Not surprised that you're in here trying to deflect and tone police.

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He's a prosecutor???💀💀

 

[Xaszatm]

Yeah, that's a fair point and at a certain point you do need to draw a line. But there needs to be a balance between actually getting your message across and not going so far that you've completely changed that message.

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I would argue the only reason we're talking about "bad messaging" in the first place is because we changed it from the direct "abolish the police" to "defund the police" and made it too grey. Yes, no one would win under an "abolish the police" message but no one ran intiially under Black LIves Matter when it became a thing. In fact, that was one of the reasons why people started paying attention to Sanders back in 2016 because he was one of the few people to directly say the words Black Lives Matter. Similiar here I think we should have stayed with "Abolish the police". Would have it gotten as popular as BLM? Probably not, but it would have stopped this dumb "unclear messaging" problem it currently has. And would have served its actual purpose of "getting people's attention".

 

[Deleted member 11413]

An American citizen who has just as much right to criticize her message as she does to criticize Obama's.

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OK, no one is infringing on your right to criticize. They are just telling you they don't give a fuck about your criticism because it's crap.

It absolutely is.
What some people's concern is if you lose to Republicans Defunding the police won't happen.
Now I don't know if that will come to pass but I understand the concern. Define the Police is bad as a snappy slogan for a short term thing.
However if it keeps being said, and pushed and understood, it's powerful and people will understand the depth behind it.
That's what Obama doesn't seem to get. Keep it up long enough and everyone knows what it means and the rock the boat knee jerk reaction is still felt as needed too.

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I mean it's been empirically shown that defunding police doesn't happen under Democrats either unless you, ya know, demand it from them in the streets. And even after that it still doesn't happen. Defund the police isn't meant to be a 'snappy slogan' it's a direct demand for political action.

 

[Hecht]

It's not the responsibility of activists to hand-wring about what plays poorly with suburban Karens. They are concerned about the survival of people in their communities, so they demand what they believe is necessary for their own safety and prosperity. The messaging is effective because it conveys their demands, whether or not some people are uncomfortable with those demands is kind of irrelevant to the manner in which they are made. Making people uncomfortable is the point.

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*I* am aware it is not their responsibility. And yes, making people uncomfortable is a good way to make people confront problems that they generally aren't aware of. But having to spend time explaining it to people who are incapable of critical thinking or having to deal with opposition that can twist the messaging in a simple manner takes efforts away from the actual movement.

 

[woman]

Was "Black Lives Matter" bad messaging?

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Black Lives Matter isn't a policy prescription. There's no hope for Defund the Police to see a similarly dramatic turnaround in public opinion when the vast majority of Americans either want funding for the police to be increased or stay the same.

 

[danm999]

Black Lives Matter is a bad slogan because I think All Lives Matter.

If you have to correct me on this, it just proves it's a bad slogan.

 

[Dalek]

Republicans continue to have a much easier time controlling the narrative and messaging to the average american.

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It felt like all I heard in the past year was "who are you going to call when you've abolished the police?" From that side. Of course I knew better-but those 70 million Trump voters? They fell for it and they believe it 100%. There is validity in trying to not give them an edge against you. Everyone on this forum I would wager agrees with the goals of this movement. But for that 70 million-they hear "Abolish the Police and let Antifa burn your town down" and they can't be convinced otherwise.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

If we want slogans that won't subject Dem candidates to GOP attacks then they should all run ads that say "Vote Republican!"

 

[Deleted member 75819]

The slogan could be "Stop Killing Black People" and the pundit impersonators on this forum would be criticizing its effectiveness.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Could he even do anything with Republicans blocking everything he did?

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Stop making excuses for him. He disbanded an FBI team investigating white nationalist infiltration in police forces because Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin called him racist for it. Obama is fuckin weak and pales in comparison to most Black heros of the 21st century.

 

[Bonafide]

He's kinda right. You don't want a slogan that can be easily twisted by your opponent to mean something else that they can use against you.

It's not necessarily about slogans making people lose because clearly some slogans work (Yes We Can, MAGA 🤮) but it's about carefully choosing a slogan that can't be easily twisted by your opponents.

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most people cant even name the law obamacare actually stood for. the hand wringing about what the republicans are turn your slogan into is pointless.

 

[samoyed]

"Yes We Can", "MAGA", "BLM".

Obama is wrong here. I have a hard time believing he really thinks this because it ignores the last 16 years or so of politics as well as his own history-making campaign!

I am forced to believe he is intentionally scolding the progressive/activist wing.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

*I* am aware it is not their responsibility. And yes, making people uncomfortable is a good way to make people confront problems that they generally aren't aware of. But having to spend time explaining it to people who are incapable of critical thinking or having to deal with opposition that can twist the messaging in a simple manner takes efforts away from the actual movement.

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If people are incapable of critical thinking then that's not a problem activists or marketers or anyone else can solve. Republicans can and will twist any message they want, that's not a good argument against activists making clear demands that they want to see happen.

 

[Foffy]

Coming from the guy who failed to deliver HOPE and CHANGE, this is some rich shit.

I know I'd be expecting HOPE CHANGE from the same guy who did a PR spot twice in the same day selling the drinkability of poisoned Flint water. Maybe he really does know you lose people with snappy slogans...

 

[mbpm]

*shrug*

Establishment protects establishment. Did it with the NBA strike, doing it here.

Is anyone in power listening? Maybe only to themselves.

 

[Rockets]

.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Defund the police. Abolish ICE. Two slogans that were always dumb as shit because they were targeting law enforcement. You're not going to get support from 90% of the public with slogans like those.

 

[Eeyore]

Funny how cops murdering black people constantly ever since the damn Pinkertons, the protectors of the slave trade, is something that can be run on by Republicans but we have to tip toe around the American electorate to make things palatable for them. Fuck electoralism it is not up to activists to make a message that is politically savvy. That's for politicians but they're too busy pledging MORE money for the police. In Biden's case they're being called a socialist and cop hater by police unions while being so cucked that they take it because they're more afraid of them than they care about black families getting murdered and ruined.

This constant need to rationalize everything by political expediency instead of what's right is maddening.

Reported. In the year of George Floyd we don't need utter garbage like this on this site. We're not the old site.

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That isn't utter garbage, it's making a point that the message wasn't popular until recently and using that logic to apply to similar arguments made against Defund the Police.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

He's right, but meh.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

Obama again steering to a center that only exists in his head and not in reality.



Of course you'd say that given that you're apparently a prosecutor from Kentucky. Trusting someone in your position to take any sort of hard stance on police brutality is the real joke, especially given that you also don't seem to care too much about worker abuse. Not surprised that you're in here trying to deflect and tone police.

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Explains a lot! Incredible.

 

[IneptEMP]

There isn't a progressive "slogan" that could be forged via the English language, that also wouldn't be twisted by the right into something "negative" or framed as "weak messaging" by "allies".

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Obama again steering to a center that only exists in his head and not in reality.



Of course you'd say that given that you're apparently a prosecutor from Kentucky. Trusting someone in your position to take any sort of hard stance on police brutality is the real joke, especially given that you also don't seem to care too much about worker abuse. Not surprised that you're in here trying to deflect and tone police.

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Lol thanks for this, no wonder they are showing their ass in this thread.