Barack Obama on Broad Slogans: "You lose people with 'snappy' slogans like 'defund the police'"

Pekola · Dec 2, 2020

On an interview that's meant to air tomorrow, Former President Obama mentioned the following in regards to slogans like 'Defund the Police':

Former President Barack Obama told Peter Hamby on the Snapchat original political show "Good Luck America" that "snappy" slogans such as "defund the police" can alienate people, making the statements less effective than intended.

What he's saying: "You lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done," Obama told Hamby in an interview that will air Wednesday morning at 6 a.m. EST on Snapchat.

"The key is deciding, do you want to actually get something done, or do you want to feel good among the people you already agree with?"

A similar statement was made by House Majority Whip James Clyburn, who blamed "sloganeering" for losses during the election.

Some progessive democrats had a few choice words on the statement, like Cori Bush:

With all due respect, Mr. President—let's talk about losing people. We lost Michael Brown Jr. We lost Breonna Taylor. We're losing our loved ones to police violence. It's not a slogan. It's a mandate for keeping our people alive. Defund the police.

Source:

Obama: Broad slogans like "defund the police" lose people

"The key is deciding, do you want to actually get something done, or do you want to feel good..."

www.axios.com

EDIT: FULL INTERVIEW UP!

Siman shinsafe · Dec 2, 2020

I agree with him. It's needlessly shockingly and doesn't really describe what people want.
Reform the police.
Fix the police.
There are countless better slogans to use.

Magneto · Dec 2, 2020

Thanks for your input, war criminal.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like these people that are screaming "Defund the police" are maybe in a better position to know what kind of stuff they want to yell than... well, Obama ?

Don Draper's Hat · Dec 2, 2020

"Make America Great Again" seemed to work.

As did all the bullshit Brexit slogans here in the UK.

IMCaprica · Dec 2, 2020

He's not wrong. I know a guy who used "HOPE" and "CHANGE" as slogans and he lost people (when he started protecting the police).

Pollux · Dec 2, 2020

With all due respect to Cori Bush, you don't get to make the change you want unless you get the votes to do it. Get a better marketing team.

Mekanos · Dec 2, 2020

Gotdatmoney · Dec 2, 2020

Obama can say whatever the fuck he wants. Black people were dying to the police while you were president for 8 years and you didn't do shit either so why the fuck does your opinion matter? Activist designed the slogan to state their desire. They didn't come up with it so Democrats who don't do fuck all anyway can feign interest for re-election.

Xaszatm · Dec 2, 2020

One thing that bugs me is the idea that "Defund the Police" and "Abolish the Police" fails because it doesn't get people elected. It bugs me because that's not the reason for the slogan. These slogans aren't for elections, that's why they are formed from anti-government protests and not, you know, election campaigns. The whole point of "Defund the Police" is similar to "Black Lives Matter" and taking a knee during the national antherm. It's meant to anger and shock the nation. It's meant as a cry for attention on a serious issue. It's meant to be a purposefully combative statement to force people to pay attention to the issues at hand. Of course it isn't meant to win elections, that wasn't its purpose.

Xaszatm · Dec 2, 2020

Starbuck said:
With all due respect to Cori Bush, you don't get to make the change you want unless you get the votes to do it. Get a better marketing team.

...uh...she...she won though.

Soda · Dec 2, 2020

I'd still argue "Defund the police" sounds like "remove all funding and abolish all police" to me at first glance, when it seems that most people want to just divert some portion of funds from police to, say, social workers. I know some people ant complete abolition of police forces, but if the movement is really "Reduce funding of police," I'd say it's not unfair to say "Defund the police" isn't the best slogan.

I'm not sure if what I'm arguing is really what Obama is trying to say, though.

Equippedwithtowel · Dec 2, 2020

The democratic party doesn't get to tell activists that their demands could be more palatable if they just made them vague enough to be meaningless. If they don't like it make a better plan. Defund the police is a good slogan because it is memorable and clear. It just is not popular among people in power or wealth so they concern troll, Obama is no different.

Zvonimir Boban · Dec 2, 2020

What he's saying: "You lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done,"

The changes they want done are defunding (well really abolishing) the police.

Siman shinsafe said:
I agree with him. It's needlessly shockingly and doesn't really describe what people want.
Reform the police.
Fix the police.
There are countless better slogans to use.

They don't want to fix the police because the police can't be fixed.

That's why they want to stop giving the police more money.

i.e. Defund the police

Arguments about it being confusing are started by politicians that want to give more money to the police and are almost always in bad faith and we shouldn't let ourselves get sucked into the bullshit.

Nanashrew · Dec 2, 2020

It's a demand from the people and no slogan.

MechaJackie · Dec 2, 2020

Yes We Can~~'t make a better world~~

J2C · Dec 2, 2020

I agree with him. I don't think complex issues need simple slogans, particularly when it seems more designed for social currency than it is for change

Khanimus · Dec 2, 2020

Hecht · Dec 2, 2020

Zvonimir Boban said:
The changes they want done are defunding (well really abolishing) the police.

They don't want to fix the police because the police can't be fixed.

That's why they want to stop giving the police more money.

i.e. Defund the police

Arguments about it being confusing are started by politicians that want to give more money to the police and are almost always in bad faith and we shouldn't let ourselves get sucked into the bullshit.

It's messaging. You don't want a slogan that can be twisted by any opponents. "Defund the police," while accurate, is easy fodder for people to turn into something negative.

Mekanos · Dec 2, 2020

Gotdatmoney said:
Obama can say whatever the fuck he wants. Black people were dying to the police while you were president for 8 years and you didn't do shit either so why the fuck does your opinion matter? Activist designed the slogan to state their desire. They didn't come up with it so Democrats who don't do fuck all anyway can feign interest for re-election.

Obama stands by the term 'thugs,' White House says

President criticized violent rioters as 'criminals and thugs.'

www.usatoday.com

Pretty rich of Obama to talk about this stuff when Black Lives Matter started under his Presidency.

Pollux · Dec 2, 2020

Xaszatm said:
...uh...she...she won though.

And how's that slogan going in swing districts?

easy for her to say in a district that has gone Democrat for the last 70 years.

Tfritz · Dec 2, 2020

he's probably correct wrt it not getting folks on your side and not really appealing to folks who don't already agree with it, but otoh it seems like perhaps he should focus a bit more on discussing the ongoing epidemic of police brutality instead of semantic quibbling with the folks who say "perhaps there should be less police brutality"

Dalek · Dec 2, 2020

He's correct. My wife, my brother in law and my sister in law basically spent 90 minutes in a heated discussion with my conservative in laws trying to deprogram them from thinking "Defund the Police" means "allocate money from the police to other social services" and not "Abolish the Police". It was a fucking nightmare because of their first impression hearing the word "Defund". Eventually-after much yelling and hot tempers they eventually "believed" us and actually agreed with the message of the movement. Not every "call" to authorities necessitates a police visit-sometimes a social worker is better equipped-and the police don't need fucking tanks.

People are very sensitive about this movement-rightfully so-that they don't want to hear any criticism of the slogan. But it could have gone better in as far as messaging.

Magneto · Dec 2, 2020

Hecht said:
It's messaging. You don't want a slogan that can be twisted by any opponents. "Defund the police," while accurate, is easy fodder for people to turn into something negative.

Except that we live in a world where the opponents can twist ANY message. And lie about the meaning of it, even if they know that it's a lie.

Xaszatm · Dec 2, 2020

Hecht said:
It's messaging. You don't want a slogan that can be twisted by any opponents. "Defund the police," while accurate, is easy fodder for people to turn into something negative.

Yes but, again, it's not for voting. It's a combative statement on purpose. No one was shouting "Abolish the police" for votes. It was stated because of the outrage against the police. Similar to how taking a knee isn't productive to votes. It's not meant for that.

Dalek · Dec 2, 2020

Hecht said:
It's messaging. You don't want a slogan that can be twisted by any opponents. "Defund the police," while accurate, is easy fodder for people to turn into something negative.

Absolutely. And it works.

Brawly Likes to Brawl · Dec 2, 2020

I don't know where Obama and the democratic party seems to have gotten the idea that BLM or any racial activist group exists as a PR firm for their election campaigns, but they need to get a clue yesterday.

N.Domixis · Dec 2, 2020

Gotdatmoney said:
Obama can say whatever the fuck he wants. Black people were dying to the police while you were president for 8 years and you didn't do shit either so why the fuck does your opinion matter? Activist designed the slogan to state their desire. They didn't come up with it so Democrats who don't do fuck all anyway can feign interest for re-election.

Could he even do anything with Republicans blocking everything he did?

Xaszatm · Dec 2, 2020

Starbuck said:
And how's that slogan going in swing districts?

It's not? Because that's not the purpose? Like, that's the issue I'm having. We're taking a slogan meant as a demand of outrage against the awful police force and acting like it was meant to...get Biden elected?

Shaun Solo · Dec 2, 2020

Defund the ~~Police~~ MALARKEY!

There I fixed it for ya, Jack! I turned a policy demand into an empty platitude!

Addie · Dec 2, 2020

No candidate was explicitly running on "defund the police."

Activists are going to come up with whatever slogans they want -- and that's how it should be.

It's the job of elected officials or candidates for elected office to engage with messages that already exist. If they want to endorse it wholesale, that's fine. If they want to add some nuance, that's also fine. It's their job to figure out which path to take.

Zvonimir Boban · Dec 2, 2020

Hecht said:
It's messaging. You don't want a slogan that can be twisted by any opponents. "Defund the police," while accurate, is easy fodder for people to turn into something negative.

How Public Opinion Has Moved on Black Lives Matter - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Was "Black Lives Matter" bad messaging?

SageShinigami · Dec 2, 2020

I mean. On some level I agree with him. But only because I think I'm turning into a scumbag that will tell you "No, I don't wanna defund the police." Then do it anyway once I got elected. Pulling a page directly from Republicans.

Pollux · Dec 2, 2020

Xaszatm said:
It's not? Because that's not the purpose? Like, that's the issue I'm having. We're taking a slogan meant as a demand of outrage against the awful police force and acting like it was meant to...get Biden elected?

Ok - what the point of the outrage? What's the end goal? Y'all just want to shout into the night and that's it? Because of so - cool. But if you want something more than that then your cool slogan won't work.

Djalminha · Dec 2, 2020

Lots of people marched this year under that slogan, would they really have reached more people with an explanation of the slogan?

Reform the police is not less snappy, it's the exact same format just calling for something different.

Artdayne · Dec 2, 2020

Racial justice has been politically unpopular until you make it so.

Defund the Police is a perfectly valid slogan.

Nanashrew · Dec 2, 2020

Mekanos said:

Exactly.

Gotdatmoney · Dec 2, 2020

Starbuck said:
And how's that slogan going in swing districts?

easy for her to say in a district that has gone Democrat for the last 70 years.

Who the fuck ran on defund the police in swing states. Name them. All of them.

Shaun Solo · Dec 2, 2020

Starbuck said:
Ok - what the point of the outrage? What's the end goal? Y'all just want to shout into the night and that's it? Because of so - cool. But if you want something more than that then your cool slogan won't work.

To defund the police. See, the slogan works!

Dalek · Dec 2, 2020

Xaszatm said:
Yes but, again, it's not for voting. It's a combative statement on purpose. No one was shouting "Abolish the police" for votes. It was stated because of the outrage against the police. Similar to how taking a knee isn't productive to votes. It's not meant for that.

The problem here is you're saying it's not for votes-but the opposition is clearly using it to get THEIR votes. And it's working.

Hecht · Dec 2, 2020

Gegz said:
Except that we live in a world where the opponents can twist ANY message. And lie about the meaning of it, even if they know that it's a lie.

Well yeah, but make them work for it.

Xaszatm said:
Yes but, again, it's not for voting. It's a combative statement on purpose. No one was shouting "Abolish the police" for votes. It was stated because of the outrage against the police. Similar to how taking a knee isn't productive to votes. It's not meant for that.

If you want the change to happen, then you need to get people on your side. I'm aware that there is a large subset of people who will never be in line with it, but being able to say things like "Libs want to make it so that the police can't respond to your calls!" makes it difficult to entice people who can be swayed by pithy slogans

Rockets · Dec 2, 2020

Fuck off Obama. Glad to see him finally get called out for this shit. I know Cornel West has been waiting years for this day lol

Zvonimir Boban · Dec 2, 2020

Starbuck said:
Ok - what the point of the outrage? What's the end goal?

Less money for the police?

UnpopularBlargh · Dec 2, 2020

Siman shinsafe said:
I agree with him. It's needlessly shockingly and doesn't really describe what people want.
Reform the police.
Fix the police.
There are countless better slogans to use.

Come up with a better phrase that unambiguously means "reduce police funding and redistribute it to more important social services that are actually helpful" because every time we use the word "reform" it just ends up meaning "give the cops even more money"

Deleted member 2620 · Dec 2, 2020

Mekanos said:

Zvonimir Boban said:
Arguments about it being confusing are started by politicians that want to give more money to the police and are almost always in bad faith and we shouldn't let ourselves get sucked into the bullshit.

Yeah. Hell, a beloved former president is in an awfully good position to help shape public opinion on this, but unfortunately he wants police to get more money so that's the direction he's shaping it in.

Deleted member 11413 · Dec 2, 2020

Siman shinsafe said:
I agree with him. It's needlessly shockingly and doesn't really describe what people want.
Reform the police.
Fix the police.
There are countless better slogans to use.

No, people say "defund the police" because they want police funding cut. YOU are uncomfortable with that idea, but YOU do not speak for the people who are demanding defund the police. Fucking hubristic nonsense.

Pollux · Dec 2, 2020

Gotdatmoney said:
Who the fuck ran on defund the police in swing states. Name them. All of them.

Go look up all the swig districts that lost because of that branding. Then get back to me about how this shit works in Ohio or other areas of the country that aren't classic solid blue areas.

hidys · Dec 2, 2020

He is absolutely right.
It's a bad slogan when you have to explain what it means.

And there is a reason Bernie Sanders won't touch it.

Trigonometrize · Dec 2, 2020

Tfritz said:
he's probably correct wrt it not getting folks on your side and not really appealing to folks who don't already agree with it, but otoh it seems like perhaps he should focus a bit more on discussing the ongoing epidemic of police brutality instead of semantic quibbling with the folks who say "perhaps there should be less police brutality"

He has discussed it though. https://barackobama.medium.com/how-...he-turning-point-for-real-change-9fa209806067

It's just progressives like Cori Bush can't take the L on those three words, and even double down on it by calling it not a slogan

ToddBonzalez · Dec 2, 2020

Defund the Police is a terrible slogan. It sounds needlessly extreme and scary to the average person.

GreenMachine · Dec 2, 2020

dude has some seriously skewed takes of his own when it comes to law enforcement

Barack Obama on Broad Slogans: "You lose people with 'snappy' slogans like 'defund the police'"

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