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Lorcain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
509
Great news. Larian deserves this opportunity. Divinity Original Sin 2 is one of the best games of this gen, and one of the best turn-based crpgs of all time. I'm interested in seeing their approach to real time with pause (if they have that as an option), and if they do, how robust the party AI customization will be.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
This announcement is kind of making me want to try to do my first full trilogy run (BG1, BG2, and ToB with the same character) but I have no idea what I'd do. Ideally something I haven't already played quite a bit, which leaves out the OP dual class combos like kensai/mage and berserker/druid.
 

moustascheman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,662
Canada
So many takes I already fear in this thread. We got:
A) Making everything voiced
B) Make it turn based
C) Make it 3d
D)Remove rng
E) Original Sin style co-op
F)Avoid making it isometric

I don't have much faith in this.
What's wrong with making it 3d? Aren't most CRPGs these days 3d or atleast have 3d models for characters and enemies (Shadowrun, PF: Kingmaker, Pillars of Eternity, etc). Also wasn't a good deal of dialogue in BG1/2 voiced?
 
May 17, 2019
2,649
What's wrong with making it 3d? Aren't most CRPGs these days 3d or atleast have 3d models for characters and enemies (Shadowrun, PF: Kingmaker, Pillars of Eternity, etc). Also wasn't a good deal of dialogue in BG1/2 voiced?

More talking about environments. The original is famous for hand drawn backgrounds, which still hold up twenty years later. Meanwhile I can't stand the flashy sparkly of D:OS's world.
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,151
Chile
I think they'll probably just lower enemy ACs and modify health to speed up fights. For example a goblin in 5e has an AC of 15. Let's say you're playing a first level fighter with +5 attack bonus (+2 from proficiency, +3 from STR). That would mean you'd have to roll a 10 or more to hit, which gives you a roughly 50% hit rate. This is fine in PnP since you don't usually have many encounters each session and in a RTwP system since the game basically automates the attacks for you, but in a turn based rpg it might get annoying since the amount of misses will prolong the length of each fight.

If you lowered that AC down to 10 for example (the amount would probably vary from creature to creature), you'd suddenly have a 75% hit rate since 3/4 attacks will now be hits, dramatically speeding up each encounter without completely throwing away the system they already have. This is what I'll imagine they'll do, lower the enemy ACs and modify some health values so that the early levels are a lot less frustrating, while keeping 5e's bounded accuracy system intact.

Initiative was in NWN but it was basically a non-factor in that game (despite how many feats increased it). If this is RTwP, it'll probably be the same. Speaking of features that wouldn't work in RTwP, I wonder how they'll handle the Paladin's Divine Smites (considering that you're supposed to declare them after a hit) and the Rogue's cunning action (or bonus actions in general) if this is RTwP.

Oh, I never played NWN so I didn't know initiative was a thing there, even if inconsequential. I assume they're gonna take a look at that and figure a way to implement it that actually works or just outright scrap it.

Action Surge might be another thing that could be changed (because attacking twice in RT doesn't mean the same that attacking twice in TB).
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,595
I mean, I'd prefer a larger party size, but I must say I don't think the part size is that important. I think PoE2's 5 worked very well and I was also fine with Tyranny's 4.
It's much important that they manage to live up to the companions of BG2 - That game is still the undisputed king in that regards.
If bg2 is king then Planescape and MotB are the god emperors
 
May 17, 2019
2,649
What the hell is wrong with making it all voiced?

VO is expensive as heck, which means reactions to dialogues need to be more repetive and have less responses. Thus it will be less reactive overall. Not to mention the need to deviate from the traditional BG method of dialogue only storytelling. Not to mention just how horrid the VO work was in both D:OS and PoE. Far better silent really.
 
Feb 12, 2019
1,429
As someone who runs a 5e group, it's a ruleset with a lot of flexibility and mechanics ruled through DM fiat. That makes it fantastic for P&P, where you don't need a hyper-specific rule to resolve every single situation (and instead can just say "make X skill check with advantage.") However, that also means it's tricky to directly translate to a video game, where everything needs to be resolved consistently. I'm all in favor of them taking some liberties with it in favor of a more interesting game, because it'd definitely be simple and a little boring if they did a 1:1 translation.

This announcement is kind of making me want to try to do my first full trilogy run (BG1, BG2, and ToB with the same character) but I have no idea what I'd do. Ideally something I haven't already played quite a bit, which leaves out the OP dual class combos like kensai/mage and berserker/druid.
Fighter/Mage/Thief triple multi-class. You know you want to hit level 2 with the Mage right around the time everyone else is hitting level 4. (In all seriousness, I've done that and it's served me pretty well.)
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,741
GameSpot has a thing with Swen talking over the trailer. #yesiamprobablylate

 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,450
New York
Because Baldur's Gate worked great with rtwp and I love that system. Also, the co-op was awful in the original trilogy. The game would have to deviate from its roots drastically in order to accommodate it.
Pillars of Eternity 2 made it work perfectly well with an option to play in real time or switch it to turn-based combat. No reason a game coming out even further down the line couldn't...
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
I mean, I'd prefer a larger party size, but I must say I don't think the part size is that important. I think PoE2's 5 worked very well and I was also fine with Tyranny's 4.
It's much important that they manage to live up to the companions of BG2 - That game is still the undisputed king in that regards.
I think party size is critically important. Going turn-based and having fewer options per character makes a larger party size viable. Going RTWP or having many options per character makes more than 4-5 characters tend towards a chaotic mess (one reason why Pillars of Eternity reduced party size for the sequel).
 

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
What the hell is wrong with making it all voiced?
1. Most videogame voice acting is terrible to me. Like, I default to turning voice acting off because the quality of delivery (and direction, which is just as important, and often unsupervised by writers in the videogame industry) is so poor.
2. Voicing everything is prohibitively expensive, which for a smaller dev (if Larian can still be considered that), often leads to money not being available for other areas. It also puts constraints on the length, amount, and variety of dialogue.
3. Voicing everything requires dialogue and other content to be locked earlier and makes editing or changing it harder. This puts unnecessary constraints on the writing pipeline and makes it harder to adjust all the way down the line, including post-launch.
 
Feb 19, 2018
1,650
Fingers crossed for all races from the 5e Player's Handbook, including Tieflings and Dragonborn, being included as playable races.

Personally crossing my fingers for a Dragonborn story companion as well, there is some serious potential in the Forgotten Realms Dragonborn lore, particularly with the ongoing Tymanther vs Unther conflict and FR dragonborn essentially being fantasy Klingons with some cool twists.

And considering how popular the Red Prince and the Lizard race was in Original Sin 2, I'm pretty sure the majority of D:OS2 players will be happy if they could play Dragonborn and get their warrior lizard fix that way.
 

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
In general, I don't think this is a game that needed to exist, and I don't trust Larian to deliver a version I would be excited about unless they rein a lot of their goofier and tonally discordant impulses.
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
Regarding the ruleset and what they're gonna carry over from the tabletop, I think it's really important to know whether the game's gonna be Turn Based or RTwP - because 5E's combat economy is based on turns and limited possibilities inside that turn (1 action, 1 bonus action and movement, in its very basic form); class features like Extra Attack don't give you another action but another "attack" (which is one of many Actions you can do), for example. I'd imagine if it was RTwP they'd have to scrap or really redesign the concept of initiative (and initiative order) and surprise rounds because as they are they're not really compatible with a real time system.
I also wonder if they're gonna keep grappling/shoving and make them a thing (as in tabletop 5E) or just ignore that part completely.
This is one reason why I think it's important Larian goes TB for the game. Doing otherwise would basically throw a huge amount of pre-existing, excellent D&D design work and playtesting into the trash. It's why Temple of Elemental Evil had a hugely superior combat system to any other D&D 3/3.5 implementation.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,637
Tel Aviv
If bg2 is king then Planescape and MotB are the god emperors
I mean this is subjective, but I think BG2 has better companions and banter. Yeah, the description of the companions in PS:T and MoTB is cooler, but they're less realized characters and their banter and interactions were not as memorable IMO.

I think PoE2 and D:OS2 proved that a fully voiced CRPG can work. This seems to be a high budget production, so I'd welcome a fully voiced games. I don't think it's a must though.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
1. Most videogame voice acting is terrible to me. Like, I default to turning voice acting off because the quality of delivery (and direction, which is just as important, and often unsupervised by writers in the videogame industry) is so poor.
2. Voicing everything is prohibitively expensive, which for a smaller dev (if Larian can still be considered that), often leads to money not being available for other areas. It also puts constraints on the length, amount, and variety of dialogue.
3. Voicing everything requires dialogue and other content to be locked earlier and makes editing or changing it harder. This puts unnecessary constraints on the writing pipeline and makes it harder to adjust all the way down the line, including post-launch.
That's a load of antiquated shit.

1. Plenty of games have decent-to-good voice acting, with some cases of outstanding quality. It's very rare that full voice over is detrimental to the quality of a title, anyway.
2. Voice acting is *proportionally* far less taxing on the overall budget than it used to be. Not to mention sometimes there are scenarios where putting a break on the verbosity of the writer is not an unhealthy thing to do at all. Aside from that, if devs do it it's because it also can boost sales significantly, which is their bet to make.
3. Larian decided to fully voice DOS 2 only after the game was already completed, not to mention they voiced DOS 1 only in its enhanced edition months later, which was more expansive than the original release. Any claim that they had to compromise on the writing to achieve voiced characters is baseless if not even delusional.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,309
the Netherlands
I am often critical about voice acting being forced into games, but I loved it in D:OS2. I don't get the fears about it being too costly or the amount of dialogue suffering from it after seeing both the quality of the voice acting in OS2 and the huge amount of dialogue still in the game. This isn't going to be a Skyrim scenario, where the extensive dialogues from Morrowind got condensed into bite-sized chunks of conversation.

Plus OS2 made voice acting fully optional, so if you don't like its quality you could just turn it off.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
I can only hope the game opens with dialogue as good as BG2's, which still rings in my mind today.

"Ah, the child of Bhaal has awoken.
"It is time for more... experiments"
"The pain will only be passing. You should survive the process"

Irenicus was a master class villain. Thanks mightily to his voice actor.

"You will suffer! You will ALL suffer!"
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
1. Most videogame voice acting is terrible to me. Like, I default to turning voice acting off because the quality of delivery (and direction, which is just as important, and often unsupervised by writers in the videogame industry) is so poor.
2. Voicing everything is prohibitively expensive, which for a smaller dev (if Larian can still be considered that), often leads to money not being available for other areas. It also puts constraints on the length, amount, and variety of dialogue.
3. Voicing everything requires dialogue and other content to be locked earlier and makes editing or changing it harder. This puts unnecessary constraints on the writing pipeline and makes it harder to adjust all the way down the line, including post-launch.

Voice acting in divinity os was not planned but they decided to add it after it was heavily requested by the players. They managed to fully voice act os2 without sacrificing dialogue and with how much more budget they have bg3 I don't think it will be problem at all. Voicing is usually done last and was done for os2 a shortly before launch and imo did not affect the quality of the dialogue at all. It made the game much more enjoyable for me and I hope bg3 is fully voice acted.
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
VO is expensive as heck, which means reactions to dialogues need to be more repetive and have less responses. Thus it will be less reactive overall. Not to mention the need to deviate from the traditional BG method of dialogue only storytelling. Not to mention just how horrid the VO work was in both D:OS and PoE. Far better silent really.

I disagree I thought os2 had decent voice acting and did not sacrifice dialogue choices at all in order to make that happen. Some of the best moments in the game e.g- lohse's song, would not have the same impact without voice acting. Voice acting was not planned for os2 but it was heavily requested which is why they decided to add it and imo made the game way better.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
So happy. BG II is probably my favorite game and I absolutely love Larian. I will buy this at a high price.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Easily one of most exciting game announcements in years for me. Baldur's gate is one of the best gaming franchises ever, and after Original Sin 1 and 2, I could not think of a better devbeloper to tackle it <3
 

johancruijff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,232
Italy
"Yes the game will have an isometric perspective!"

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