Awkwafina (Shang-Chi) is being accused of cultural appropriation by some, for previous use of a “blaccent” while she was rising to fame

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

I don't see how, if someone can explain it then I'd concede. Because if it's the spelling then isn't it simply because the name Aquafina is a trademark by Pepsi and she had to spell it differently to avoid getting sued?

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I know people have responded to you already, but I have noticed that a lot of times in threads about contentious issues like this (mainly about respecting marginalized groups' feelings), what largely gets a lot of posters frustrated and gets bans (aside from the "I don't care about how this affects people" responses) is when folks ask questions by making assertions like the trademark comment here. I'm not saying that to be rude or aggressive toward you, I believe you're asking this in good faith, but my thought process is if she knew she couldn't use a corporate brand name why did she decide to change the spelling in that way (the connections already laid out by other posters) instead of just using another name? Why would she have chosen to call herself Aquafina in the first place? She already claimed she just wanted a silly name and didn't put any more thought into it than that. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to bring this trademark stuff into it. And it has the added effect of giving people who want to handwave this away something to latch on to.

Again, not meaning to be rude or mocking or anything. I read that you aren't American and deal with racism yourself, so not trying to deny your experiences or ignore cultural differences. If this response is out of line then do call me out on it. I just notice this happen a lot in discussions and we can make things so much smoother if people could just ask questions without the added stuff. We don't have to have a debate where someone asserts a thing from a place of ignorance that they have to concede, when the discussion is laying it all out in real time. If you really need clarification, just say you don't know and ask.

Start checking people.

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100%, especially us white people. We need to check our peers because we'll be listened to more than the people being directly affected.

 

[Compbros]

Cultural appropriation is partaking in anything from a culture not from your own.

Some forms of appropriation are harmless, either on their own or in context, such as eating food at a restaurant outside of your culture. Some are not harmless, such as, I don't know, using a caricature of Black culture to prop yourself up while not being Black.

Cultural appropriation conversations tend to focus on negative examples because we live in a world where certain cultures are less valued than others, meaning the exchange from one culture to another, more dominant culture can harm or demean the original one.

All you have to do is look at this thread for example to see how many people like facets of Black culture but don't like when Black people assert any sort of authority over it, while at the same time sympathizing with other cultures in the way they're portrayed and say, understanding immediately why an East Asian accent being done by a non-East Asian, or even an East Asian person in certain contexts, might be racist...

Kinda like fucking Awkwafina.

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So, it's not inherently negative but it's mostly used in negative connotation, that makes sense. Sort of like how people use tropes to say why something is bad but tropes aren't bad in and of themselves, but how they're used.

Absolutely, it's beyond disgusting that the culture can be seen as lesser but used as a stepping stone to launch your career, account, status, or what have you. I will never understand people seeing what Awk did and not see it in the highly negative light of cultural appropriation. It's almost comical how much it's downplayed.

Speaking of...this thread has been unbelievable in the handwaving. They're acting like it's just people trying to tear down a successful Asian woman instead of the Asian woman doing something seen as a caricature of black people and being rightfully called out for it. It's not like Malibu's Most Wanted where he's called out several times in the movie and the joke is that he's acting this way when he's clearly not ingrained in the culture. The joke is simply that she's acting black but isn't. The joke isn't on the character or person, the joke is on black people.

 

[Order]

threads like this are why i'm a firm believer that some people just need to shit the fuck up and not have an opinion on everything

if you're not black or asian, why the fuck do you think we wanna hear your thoughts on this

 

[JayCB64]

what

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I'll be real with you, as someone who talks a lot about comic book shit, this isn't the first time I've seen Dierce try and force a notation of a world wide anti-DC bias - but this would be the first time I've seen it randomly shoved into political talking points lol.

Think the core of what they are saying is apt though, actors shouldn't get a pass for stuff for just being in content we like, regardless of..if they are a Batman or something.

 

[John Rabbit]

threads like this are why i'm a firm believer that some people just need to shit the fuck up and not have an opinion on everything

if you're not black or asian, why the fuck do you think we wanna hear your thoughts on this

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We don't make it known too often, but if white people go more than 5 minutes without telling someone how a problem that doesn't affect us doesn't seem to actually be a problem at all, we start having violent spasms.

 

[Cantaim]

I remember back in 2018 when she was in Crazy Rich Asians this exact conversation happened then too. There's no reason to give her the benefit of the doubt. She is a culture vulture and a hypocrite full stop.

 

[kevinking94]

Im asian myself, and when I watched crazy rich asians and heard her speak, i was like wtf? not a good look at all. I never looked much into her, but i thought her "voice" was at the very least, super corny. Hopefully an apology is issued and the right steps are taken to enlighten ignorant people.

 

[wolfshirt]

threads like this are why i'm a firm believer that some people just need to shit the fuck up and not have an opinion on everything

if you're not black or asian, why the fuck do you think we wanna hear your thoughts on this

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Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

I'm going to need a good explanation for why black people can grow up around other cultures and not adopt a faux accent/pattern of speech but non-black people who grow up around black people can't do the same.

Because that just sounds like a weak ass excuse to me.

 

[Order]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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maybe do a little more reading if you wanna learn instead of responding then

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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The responses in this thread, especially on the first page, would indicate that a lot of users need to do the learning part before they try the conversing part.

 

[GYODX]

Then. Why. Does. She. Only. Talk. This. Way. For. A. Character. And. Not. In. Interviews?

Why are the options bite off black culture or talk in an Asian accent when she has shown she does neither in regular conversation? Surely you understand why her performance getting her success while black people who speak like this on the daily are punished for not sounding smart or speaking white enough is problematic?

Why is this so hard to see?

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This is what seals it for me. She seemingly only speaks that way when she's in character. She's literally doing to black culture what she says she refuses to do to Asian culture, what she calls "making a minstrel out of our people." How can people not see the hypocrisy in it? And calling it merely hypocritical… is being *charitable*.

She knows better and should just own up to it and apologize.

While I sympathize with the argument that some people just really don't want to see an Asian woman make it too big, I honestly don't think that's what is happening here, considering people have been calling her out for it for *years*.

 

[Thordinson]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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The best way to learn about issues that one doesn't know about/may not be affect by is to listen first, I've found. Conversation happens after.

 

[Slayven]

These threads always make me think of one person, especially when the question of how non-Black people can partake in Black culture gets raised: Teena Marie.

For those who don't know, Teena Marie was a fairly popular R&B singer in the 80s. Came up through (and dated) Rick James. If you're a Black American, you know who she is (or you've heard her music). Extremely talented, was an R&B singer to her core. To the point that when she had an opportunity to cross over into mainstream Pop and leave that "Black shit" behind, she didn't. She was a pretty white woman with an extraordinary voice. She could have been a bigger presence in music if she wanted to be. But she didn't. She died making R&B music and working with Black artists, because that was the music she was called to make. And while I'm sure there were some Black people out there who criticized her, and yes white privilege was definitely something she benefited from, she was nonetheless respected. Adored even. Her music is a mainstay at the Cookout. When she passed, Black people mourned the fuck out of her.

And that's the difference. If you want Black people to "buy" you, to get you, if you don't want to be considered a culture vulture...well, the best and easiest thing you could do is not treat Black culture like it's disposable. Unfortunately, for people like Awkwafina, that's all Black culture is good for. Use it then lose it. She gets the smoke she asks for.

Anyway, listen to some Teena Marie.

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You made me think of Sophia Chang, breakfast club i know but still a good interview

most notably as the former manager of RZA, GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, A Tribe Called Quest, D'Angelo, Raphael Saadiq, and Q-Tip

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[F2BBm3ga]

Y'all remember that time Bomani Jones wore a Caucasian's shirt on ESPN and the yt's damn near rioted? Can you imagine a black person doing a stereotypical Asian accent and getting rewarded with fame and fortune? Like how has she made it this far?

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to be fair
you mean like this?

Or this (not black but just an example)


just sayin, making fun of or mocking asian accents in america aint nothing new or out of the ordinary. Not disagreeing with other points people brought up

 

[Nepenthe]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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When you're in a classroom, do you talk over the teacher and add your input? Give minorities the same respect.

 

[Slayven]

I know people have responded to you already, but I have noticed that a lot of times in threads about contentious issues like this (mainly about respecting marginalized groups' feelings), what largely gets a lot of posters frustrated and gets bans (aside from the "I don't care about how this affects people" responses) is when folks ask questions by making assertions like the trademark comment here. I'm not saying that to be rude or aggressive toward you, I believe you're asking this in good faith, but my thought process is if she knew she couldn't use a corporate brand name why did she decide to change the spelling in that way (the connections already laid out by other posters) instead of just using another name? Why would she have chosen to call herself Aquafina in the first place? She already claimed she just wanted a silly name and didn't put any more thought into it than that. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to bring this trademark stuff into it. And it has the added effect of giving people who want to handwave this away something to latch on to.

Again, not meaning to be rude or mocking or anything. I read that you aren't American and deal with racism yourself, so not trying to deny your experiences or ignore cultural differences. If this response is out of line then do call me out on it. I just notice this happen a lot in discussions and we can make things so much smoother if people could just ask questions without the added stuff. We don't have to have a debate where someone asserts a thing from a place of ignorance that they have to concede, when the discussion is laying it all out in real time. If you really need clarification, just say you don't know and ask.


100%, especially us white people. We need to check our peers because we'll be listened to more than the people being directly affected.

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Damn it is wild seeing a tweet by Rod brought up here, more people should listen to TBGWT

 

[WarLox]

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

 

[Watershed]

Since she didn't grow up in an environment that is predominantly black or where AAVE is prevalent and acculturation to black socio-linguistic norms would be natural, her use of a blaccent is offensive and she needs to own up to it.

Edit: Also, selectively taking for yourself some desirable aspect of a marginalized group's culture to gain success without having to live any of the oppression that makes that group marginalized in the first place is wrong. What's that quote? Everybody wants to be black but nobody wants to be black?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

When you're in a classroom, do you talk over the teacher and add your input? Give minorities the same respect.

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My shitty opinion on the racism you experience doesn't matter? Let me tell you how that makes me feel as a non-Black person

 

[F2BBm3ga]

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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i mean probably. Me personally, having lived in queens for about 3 years in my 20s (astoria and elmhurst) it didnt matter if you were from Jamaica queens, bayside, long island, forest hills, white, black, asian, hispanic, arab, etc if you were under 30, you typically talked like that because people wouldnt stay in their little bubble.

not excusing nora, but, just talking about the nyc experience

 

[Deleted member 2109]

I see some people getting banned defending her simply because she was cast for a marvel film. Because some people somehow believe that marvel actors can do no wrong but of course this is unacceptable. She used racist caricature to get to where she is right now and wish the hardcore marvel fanbase would see it and not defend her.

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Look how quickly Jeremy Renner's accusations were ignored on this forum. Most people probably dont even know they exist.

Look at Chris Pratt being part of a homophobic church and clearly a staunch conservative. This doesnt get brought up in every single thread about the guardians films like it happens for other actors and films.

How about Josh Brolin's abusive past. Or Scarlett's long history of defending abusers. How about people suddenly talking about "separate the art from the artist" for Joss Whedon when they dont do that for others. And a list of other problematic things done by actors and people in the MCU.

All largely ignored or swept under the rug on this forum because of some comic book movies they like.

 

[Royalan]

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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Pro-tip: there's not much of difference between having a controversial opinion, and going out of your way to state "I have a controversial opinion! But I won't say it because I might get banned!"

My ears perk up either way. So you might as well just...you know, stand up in it.

 

[krazen]

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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Even if you take offense at the term AAVE and see it as 'urban' and separate from wider African-American culture (which I thoroughly disagree)' its still a problem because its not her natural speaking style and one she only brings out, in an exaggerated tone, for her comedic roles.

So we can quibble if its a direct critique on the nebulous "Black" culture, but in best case scenario its still her making fun of the urban poor.

 

[Darryl M R]

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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Do you know anything about Nora's upbringing, since your post here seems 100% irrelevant.

Say what you want with your chest, and tell me how Stony Brooks, Long Island is urban.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

My shitty opinion on the racism you experience doesn't matter? Let me tell you how that makes me feel as a non-Black person

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Don't forget the oft coupled refrain "You're the real racist for not allowing me to espouse my racist shitty opinion"

 

[Grenchel]

You made me think of Sophia Chang, breakfast club i know but still a good interview

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Thanks for sharing this. Super interesting person.

 

[The Adder]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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When you open your mouth, you close your ears.

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

Click to shrink...

Joined: Oct 30, 2017
Messages: 570
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Whose alt are you?

 

[Richiek]

Y'all remember that time Bomani Jones wore a Caucasian's shirt on ESPN and the yt's damn near rioted? Can you imagine a black person doing a stereotypical Asian accent and getting rewarded with fame and fortune? Like how has she made it this far?

Click to shrink...

to be fair
you mean like this?

Or this (not black but just an example)


just sayin, making fun of or mocking asian accents in america aint nothing new or out of the ordinary. Not disagreeing with other points people brought up

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Also, Shaq used a mock Asian accent to make fun of Yao Ming.

O'Neal Issues Apology

Laker center says he was only joking in comments about Yao and that his relationship with Louis Farrakhan is his own business.

www.latimes.com

The Laker center was criticized by a weekly Asian publication more than six months after looking into a cable television camera and, according to a column under the headline, "Shaq is a Racist," saying, "Tell Yao Ming, 'Ching-chong-yang-wah-ah-soh,' " apparently mocking the Chinese language.

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"To say I'm a racist against Asians is crazy," O'Neal said. "It's probably [someone] just trying to start trouble.... I'm an idiot prankster.

"I said a joke. It was a 70-30 joke. Seventy percent of people thought it was funny, 30 didn't.

"At times I try to be a comedian. Sometimes I say good jokes, sometimes I say bad jokes. If I hurt anybody's feelings, I apologize."

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[Mass Effect]

When you're in a classroom, do you talk over the teacher and add your input? Give minorities the same respect.

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lmao you know some Era posters definitely did that shit

 

[Euphoria]

Do you know anything about Nora's upbringing, since your post here seems 100% irrelevant.

Say what you want with your chest, and tell me how Stony Brooks, Long Island is urban.

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Everything I am reading says she was born in Stonybrook but grew up in Queens after her mother died when she was 4. That's kind of like saying I am from Bayshore despite living my first 13 years in Brentwood and afterwards living in CI, all because I was born at Southside.

Granted the area in Queens was Forest Hills, so it was a really white area.

 

[effingvic]

I remember she got a lot of criticism for this when Crazy Rich Asians came out and I'm shocked she's yet to change. I wish they didn't cast her as a pivotal character in Raya.

 

[Darryl M R]

She was born in Stony Brook, but grew up in Queens, though Forest Hills is an upper class neighborhood.

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Everything I am reading says she was born in Stonybrook but grew up in Queens after her mother died when she was 4. That's kind of like saying I am from Bayshore despite living my first 13 years in Brentwood and afterwards living in CI, all because I was born at Southside.

Granted the area in Queens was Forest Hills, so it was a really white area.

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So be it Stonybrooks or Brentwood, she did not grow up in an "urban" (read: black) environment where AAVE would be used, understood, and respected.

WarLox idiotic point still makes zero sense.

 

[Richiek]

Do you know anything about Nora's upbringing, since your post here seems 100% irrelevant.

Say what you want with your chest, and tell me how Stony Brooks, Long Island is urban.

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She was born in Stony Brook, but grew up in Queens, though Forest Hills is an upper class neighborhood.

 

[F2BBm3ga]

I remember she got a lot of criticism for this when Crazy Rich Asians came out and I'm shocked she's yet to change. I wish they didn't cast her as a pivotal character in Raya.

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Isnt the issue that she did change? Like just dropped it

she did not grow up in an "urban" (read: black) environment

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i disagree with this aspect. Again, having lived in nyc, even if u were from a more white neighborhood, you still interactad with the rest of the city, especially as a youth, unless your parents kept u in a bubble with lock and key.

 

[Mass Effect]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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Ok explain what you can add to this conversation then.

And if it starts with "well my black/Asian friends think..."

 

[Particle Physicist]

How much leeway do you get for growing up in that culture though? I was listening to an interview with a black comedian from the same area in New York and she mentioned that's just how people from there talk. Noted it wasn't appropriation when you grow up in it.

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I grew up around it and I don't speak that way because it always felt like appropriation. Her accent also sounds fake as fuck.

 

[Euphoria]

So be it Stonybrooks or Brentwood, she did not grow up in an "urban" (read: black) environment where AAVE would be used, understood, and respected.

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I agree, where she grew up wouldn't really be the kind of place I would think her to pick up that kind of accent. I just keep reading the Stonybrook thing and I think it's incorrect.

Her accent used in shows is 100% forced.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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Don't respond to anything they @ing you with or you'll get banned. Bow out the thread and hold your peace. Whatever you wanted to say just pretend you said it instead

 

[Royalan]

I remember she got a lot of criticism for this when Crazy Rich Asians came out and I'm shocked she's yet to change. I wish they didn't cast her as a pivotal character in Raya.

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(Again, putting on my "I don't speak for every Black person!" hat)

But...speaking for myself and Black people I've spoken to about this, it's not even so much that we want Awkwafina (and entertainers like her) to change. Maybe update their references, be a little more committed to the performance of Blackness, but not exactly "change."

I think what a lot of people want from folks like Awkwafina is to just acknowledge what they're doing. Black people know that our culture is awesome. We give you life. You LIVE for what we do. We been knowin this. But the extent to which people won't acknowledge "this, what I'm doing, is Black culture" even in 2021 is fucking astounding. And yes, that is Awkwafina.

What a lot of people don't acknowledge is that what makes cultural appropriation so problematic, PARTICULARLY when it comes to Black culture, is the erasure that is tied to it. We're tired of seeing people get praised for shit we've literally been doing for years. We're tired of being criminalized and look down on for the very aspects of our being that you ACTIVELY mine and mimic in a desperate attempt to make yourself something other than...well, absolutely boring.

 

[BLEEN]

These threads always make me think of one person, especially when the question of how non-Black people can partake in Black culture gets raised: Teena Marie.

For those who don't know, Teena Marie was a fairly popular R&B singer in the 80s. Came up through (and dated) Rick James. If you're a Black American, you know who she is (or you've heard her music). Extremely talented, was an R&B singer to her core. To the point that when she had an opportunity to cross over into mainstream Pop and leave that "Black shit" behind, she didn't. She was a pretty white woman with an extraordinary voice. She could have been a bigger presence in music if she wanted to be. But she didn't. She died making R&B music and working with Black artists, because that was the music she was called to make. And while I'm sure there were some Black people out there who criticized her, and yes white privilege was definitely something she benefited from, she was nonetheless respected. Adored even. Her music is a mainstay at the Cookout. When she passed, Black people mourned the fuck out of her.

And that's the difference. If you want Black people to "buy" you, to get you, if you don't want to be considered a culture vulture...well, the best and easiest thing you could do is not treat Black culture like it's disposable. Unfortunately, for people like Awkwafina, that's all Black culture is good for. Use it then lose it. She gets the smoke she asks for.

Anyway, listen to some Teena Marie.

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I've heard of Teena before in passing but had no clue of her stellar career. What a legend.

Thanks for bringing her to my attention!

 

[KartuneDX]

Man she's a woman of color from NYC. There's no appropriation. We even went to the same college and she's been like this all her life, as are most BiPoC from major metropolitan areas. This argument surrounding her just seems entirely trivial as a PoC who enjoys her work and most of the "anger" tends to come from white conservatives/suburban types who aren't exposed to this.

 

[Zebesian-X]

Can we not do this? Some of us do want to converse and learn.

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If you're interested in learning then listening is a better place to start

 

[Watershed]

You don't even need to focus on her upbringing and where she lived to wrap your head around her fake blaccent. Just recognize that she only uses her blaccent in comedy, it is selective and exaggerated, and clearly taken from another culture which also furthers a harmful stereotype of people from that culture, all for her own personal success. It doesn't matter where she grew up, what she did/does with a blaccent is wrong.

 

[est1992]

Man she's a woman of color from NYC. There's no appropriation. We even went to the same college and she's been like this all her life, as are most BiPoC from major metropolitan areas. This argument surrounding her just seems entirely trivial as a PoC who enjoys her work and most of the "anger" tends to come from white conservatives/suburban types who aren't exposed to this.

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Niggas finna be on your head

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Man she's a woman of color from NYC. There's no appropriation. We even went to the same college and she's been like this all her life, as are most BiPoC from major metropolitan areas. This argument surrounding her just seems entirely trivial as a PoC who enjoys her work and most of the "anger" tends to come from white conservatives/suburban types who aren't exposed to this.

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I don't think this is the ringing endorsement you think it is.

 

[F2BBm3ga]

Man she's a woman of color from NYC. There's no appropriation. We even went to the same college and she's been like this all her life, as are most BiPoC from major metropolitan areas. This argument surrounding her just seems entirely trivial as a PoC who enjoys her work and most of the "anger" tends to come from white conservatives/suburban types who aren't exposed to this.

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Uh what? You knew her?

 

[captmcblack]

You made me think of Sophia Chang, breakfast club i know but still a good interview

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I got nothing to add to this thread because everything good has already been said, but I wanted to call this interview out. Even though it's Breakfast Club, this shit is a great, great interview and I appreciate this person really showing love to the culture (and getting loved back) - and telling the story of that.

 

[Ashlette]

As a black person, i dont agree with op but im not sure how to articulate my opinion because it seems like it's either agree or get banned for 2 weeks.

But i would say there's a discussion on black culture vs urban culture thats not being had.

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lol i'm 100% sure that you are not.

i guess you can find your black friend to cover for you, though. or just use google image search.

 

[Slayven]

I got nothing to add to this thread because everything good has already been said, but I wanted to call this interview out. Even though it's Breakfast Club, this shit is a great, great interview and I appreciate this person really showing love to the culture (and getting loved back) - and telling the story of that.

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Her book is dope as fuck