What does that have to do with anything? Ninja is self employed, he is free to choose who he works with and why he doesn't work with other women.
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Awarding discrimination - The Game Awards
- Thread starter Alucard_DCLXVI_
- Start date
What does that have to do with anything? Ninja is self employed, he is free to choose who he works with and why he doesn't work with other women.
Some married couples are like this, it's not necessarily due to sexism. As for the analogy with actors, some actors don't do nude scenes/movies with explicit sexual scenes, it's not uncommon, and for similar reasons.
If Ninja were female and chose to only stream along with other females I wouldn't condemn her for the same reason.
If Ninja were female and chose to only stream along with other females I wouldn't condemn her for the same reason.
User Banned (1 Week): Rationalizing sexism and exclusionary rhetoric
I'd hardly say him not playing with women is problematic enough to warrant him being ineligible to win the award.
You can understand what he means about his comments, but it says more about his relationship than anything else IMHO and not that he's discriminating against women, I think you're going a little far with it and need to chill out.
It also says a lot about viewers that they would start malicious rumours in the first place just because he played a few games with a woman.
You can understand what he means about his comments, but it says more about his relationship than anything else IMHO and not that he's discriminating against women, I think you're going a little far with it and need to chill out.
It also says a lot about viewers that they would start malicious rumours in the first place just because he played a few games with a woman.
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I think I would look for context yes. If the refusal is based solely on such shallowness id call him out on it. If there's an underlying business that concerns his personal life I wouldn't give a flying fuck
Yeah, people do change. And yep, what he is doing is sexist. My post was short sighted and I tend to defend people I feel I know to a fault (probably like most people). I just don't think this is enough to warrant him not getting an award.
because it doesn't matter what the underlying reason is or if ninja is or isn't sexist - the act of not engaging with women because they're women is sexist in of itself. there are a billion different reasons why you might not be playing a game with a woman at any given time - but, if you do have the opportunity - and the reason that you're not going to is because they're women... that's sexist.
again, would people be okay with a white streamer not playing with black streamers because they feared someone could construe their conversations as racist?
I don't know how much you go to big twitch streams but I'm going to assume it's very little , a significant portion of Twitch's userbase is awful and if they sense even the slightest bit of drama potential WILL go onto the very easily accessible woman's stream and then harass them about this stuff or constantly harp on it. They can brigade them with infinite alts until the streamer is basically forced to go into sub mode and limit how they have to run their stream.
This is the difference, if you're a real world celebrity you're basically largely shielded from almost everyone on the planet unless you actively choose not to be. If Twitch is your job you are actively forced to be so public that anyone with the internet can talk to you, make new accounts and constantly brigade you, harass all your social media, doxx you, swat you, and hurt you. Twitch streamers are infinitely more accessible for everyone basically all the time than any movie celebrity is. It's not even like Ninja is alone in this regard, there are women streamers who don't team up with other male streamers to protect themselves for the same reason.
Now, do I think it's stupid that Twitch culture is that bad and Twitch themselves are ill equipped to effectively combat the millions of trash people they have on their website? Yes.
Do I fault anyone for wanting to avoid setting off the significantly large garbage user collective and avoid making their own life or other people's lives worse? No. It's certainly super easy to complain they won't just do it and bare the pain of these people harassing them when it's not me that has to suffer, but I'm not gonna give in to that and won't fault anyone woman or guy for avoiding that situation.
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This is also in general what people miss out on when comparing it to a real work place or whatever. When you work with women at a real job, millions of people don't have access to the woman and see you interacting and can spark drama or harass her over it. Normal work places are like infinitely more private than twitch streaming, and generally not surrounded by anywhere near the level of garbage people that Twitch streaming is since there is no anonymity barrier in real life.
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Boogie was invited to this event. That should tell you how little fuck they gave about doing the right thing.
Actually it's exactly the same. It's his job and it's how he makes money. It's his workplace. So if he had that attitude do any other job he'd be fired quick. If he wasn't a streamer would his wife refuse to let him work anywhere thereby supporting his broke ass?
Rationalize it any way you want but it's discrimination and he is very very lucky he hit it lucky self employed in this gig because otherwise that attitude would make him unhireable.
something causing jealousy/relationship issues is nowhere near the same thing as being racist.
so no.
also
this is where I bail.
I honestly don't have a response to that line of thought.
But what if the underlying reason is that if he streams with a girl, his wife gets jealous enough to leave him? Is streaming with a random girl online worth ending a multi year marriage for?
Ninja runs his own business. As such, refusing to work with women is basically workplace discrimination (i.e. sexism). Whether you like to admit this or not
He should probably go to marriage counseling then. It's no different than a controlling bf saying his gf can't hang out with or talk to guys
User Banned (1 Week): Rationalizing sexism and exclusionary rhetoric
I totally agree with this
You're making a very good pont OP. The Game Awards wants to be the Oscars of Videogames. Well, what the Oscars just did recently with Kevin Hart... I think the TGA are not at the Oscars level yet.
No it's not, lol. He's not flat out refusing to work with women and have had worked with them, like the one video I've seen about Ninja so far is the one of him playing with Ellen!
So sexist, he refuse to work with women is what his words being twisted into by a lot(see first quote). He already alluded to it being a request from his wife as much as possible without flat out saying it, which if he did, well, you know what "gamers" reaction to that would be.
Should be an easy lawsuit then. Would be a great way to make a point too, if you're so sure of yourself.
Damn dude, you got me. Let me get a lawyer on the phone right now
If he had a 9-5 office job, I'm guessing it wouldn't be an issue.
Would people be happy if he streamed with a 55 yo grandma?
except the point i was trying to make was that if someone rationalised a racist act the same way that ninja has rationalised not streaming with women - where said rationalisation is a hypothetical, worst-case situation where his twitch community spreads lies and disinformation about their interactions - would people still be as okay with this shit? because it would be as bullshit there as it is here. you would still be discriminating against someone for something out of their control regardless of how you tried to justify it.
and secondly - it doesn't matter what his reasoning is - he's still being discriminatory. holy fuck guys, how hard is this to understand?
edit: also, nice of you to misread and then intentionally ignore most of my post and then bail, great discussion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Get one on contingency, my friend. No need for a personal lawyer.
Honestly I don't follow him and don't feel he needs to satisfy me, I wasn't even going to post in the thread except I felt I had to point it out that is his job so it is comparable. He is very lucky to be in the position he is or he wouldn't have a job. I think it's dumb of him though especially for the stated reasons because as I said without it being this or a handful of other jobs it wouldn't fly, and two it's kind of funny to me that he makes this choice to keep a relationship if it's unhealthy and fragile enough that streaming with someone of the opposite sex could ruin it.
Just my two cents.
I agree. But would you agree that if marriage counseling didn't work then the potential loss of his marriage would be a valid reason not to stream with girls that aren't his wife? As someone who's dealt with a jealous partner before it's basically a mental illness in terms of how irrational it is.
Depends on who you ask. Pokimane and Valkyrea, two of the largest female streamers who also stream fortnite, say they understand his decision and don't think its that big of a deal. But overall reaction has been mixed at best.
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These are all very good points - the difference in accessibility is definitely part of it. You're right, I don't watch big Twitch streams, in large part because of the awful user base. I would hazard a guess that "real world celebrities" who are women *do* get a ton of harassment online, but it's a bit less direct and viewable in real-time than a chat room.
I'd expect that anyone who went on stream with him would know what it entails: a huge bump in exposure, some of which will be negative. If they don't think they can handle it, they wouldn't ask to go on stream with him...but he's made that choice for them, based solely on gender.
I think that Ninja, with his immense reach and influence, throwing up his hands and saying "sorry, I'm not willing to make the platform that made me rich better by being direct with my fanbase about how this behavior is unacceptable" is embarrassing. I think he is tacitly telling said fanbase that it's totally normal to do this sort of thing by publicly saying that's why he won't stream with women. I think that it's a bad look when the industry lionizes him in spite of it.
Lol comparing the kinds of things Kevin Hart said to what Ninja is doing here demonstrates a pretty big lack of perspective.
'I don't stream with black people because my wife doesn't like it when I stream with black people'
Just as a matter of curiosity would that be more or less of a problem for those of you insisting there's nothing wrong with his viewpoint?
Just as a matter of curiosity would that be more or less of a problem for those of you insisting there's nothing wrong with his viewpoint?
I'm pretty sure you meant to type Polanski, but I really do like this mental image. :)
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing concerns surrounding sexism; history of similar infractions.
Because one is obviously illegal, while another is a grey area at worst.
There is not a single valid basis for your wife not to want you to stream with black people. Just racist ones.
On the other hand, there are valid reasons for your wife to not want you to stream with other women, especially considering how the twitch fanbase behaves itself.
You know these things.
this thread is maddening. y'all genuinely don't give a fuck about the exclusion of women. if you ever wonder why women don't enjoy being in gAmEr spaces, go back and read this thread.
How hard is it to understand that reasoning does matter. Yes he's being discriminatory, but it's not like he's out there killing women or taking their jobs. He's simply not playing games with them on stream because it could potentially jeopardize his marriage.
Well sometimes celebrities do cheat and hook up while married and they meet each other at work, it happens
What about the female streamers linked above who understand where he's coming from?
OP
OP
This devolved rather quickly...
Ninja, the most watched streamer in the world, accepted an award in front of a global audience.
And he does not work with women.
"The Game industry awarded someone, who publicly said: "I don't play with female gamers".
-----
Translate that to any profession.
...and hopefully. You will find something... unimaginable.
Ninja, the most watched streamer in the world, accepted an award in front of a global audience.
And he does not work with women.
"The Game industry awarded someone, who publicly said: "I don't play with female gamers".
-----
Translate that to any profession.
...and hopefully. You will find something... unimaginable.
His reasoning doesn't matter in the context of giving him an award, which is what the thread is about. Nobody is denying him the right to exclude women, it's just not the kind of person the industry should be celebrating and giving awards to.
Generally, people don't love discrimination. Ninja discriminates against half the population of the entire world. He has earned his criticism.
Agreed, the man is a bit strange and it's a shame something this dumb is happening but he's not a monster.
As you said, he's one of the few massively popular streamers that actually takes some responsibility for what he says and who his viewership include.
That being said you could always say taking responsibility also means playing with Women and not letting such a fearful attitude of awkwardness get in the way with delivering a positive message.
End of the day though in my view it's a big ding against his character and approach but I don't think he is nearly as bad as the majority of popular streamers.
Yeah, game creators should start clapping for pedophiles and rapists like the mature film industry does.
I think you need to take a step back. Why are you trying to make this thread into a slapfight? I think it's rather relevant that the supposed victims of this guy's decision are, in general, kinda mixed about the decision he and his wife came to for the benefit of their relationship.
Then it all comes to his wife, if she probably didn't have a problem then I doubt he would care. He has a wife, jealously happens in people, he rather keep his marriage happy as can be, what can the dude do ?
which isn't justification enough to be discriminatory - nothing is, holy shit. it doesn't matter what sort of elaborate excuse someone can come up with, women are still getting discriminated against for - from their side - being women. if working alongside a women is enough to jeapordise his marriage (which again, is a complete hypothetical that's coming from ninja) then maybe it's worth talking that shit out rather than punishing any woman who wants to work alongside him.