Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT2| Changing the past doesn't change the future

[ZattMurdock]

Watched Civil War once again last night with my mom and her boyfriend and something the Vienna sequence stood out for me. I did already thought about that before, but now is kinda obvious:

They are setting up T'Challa to become the leader of the Illuminati, aren't they? What he says to Nat at the Sokovia Accords ceremony is pretty telling. So who could be the MCU version of the Illuminati?

Black Panther
Doctor Strange
Sersi?
Xavier?
Namor?

 

[Trup1aya]

So, what's the consensus on how Thanos was handled?

Personally, I felt like they really shortchanged him after all of his buildup. His death wasn't really memorable at all, since there was zero strategy involved in the final battle outside of "let's just fight harder this time." I guess that's the downside to a movie with this many main characters who all need their time in the spotlight, a climactic 1v1 fight that acts as the culmination of lengthy character development for both the hero and the villain... just doesn't fit the format.

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Thanos' character development happened in IW. This movie wasnt about Thanos. In fact, the Thanos we see in Endgame hadnt yet learned of the Avengers or ldealt with the struggles that culminated in him gathering the Stones. This movie was about our heros dealing with and overcoming their grief.

 

[Visanideth]

On the other hand, the time shenanigans also created a timeline in which there was no Thanos post 2015, Infinity War, or snap.

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Yeah that's kind of messy too.

Honestly (and sorry this is going to be long) my theory based on the Ancient One's speech and Banner+Tony+Clint's speech was that they hired consultants and went with a particular theory about quantum physics that well, in broad terms (I'm not qualified in any way to explain this but I have a good friend who's a physicists who could do this better) goes like this:

Relativity is that one theory that can imply that time is just another dimension and you can travel it: and since it's a dimension, the universe is contiguous and that's how you get the "run so fast you can travel in time" stuff. Everything happens at the same time, so if I kill Marty McFly's dad in 1978, Marty disappears in 2010 - at the same "time".

One theory derived from quantum physics is that the universe (and time) instead is a discreet thing, you can't really travel from one spot to the other because once something happened it happened. If you could actually travel back in time, you'd enter that moment in time (a discreet thing) and do your changes and what would happen is that this very long chain of pearls that are the snapshots of time would chance at the same pace as time progresses. So the new past never catches up to your presence. People would never have to deal with their memories being changed or something like that, because every snapshot, every "pearl" evolves at the same pace. It's not multiverses - it's one universe rewriting itself constantly, but never catching up.

But I was ultimately wrong, because the Russos said it's multiverses.

 

[Visanideth]

The other timelines have their own protectors. Our Avengers aren't responsible for them. It'll have to be enough that they return the stones (and kill one timeline's Thanos for them).

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How about the timelines they create?

 

[AWizardDidIt]

They are inherently dangerous in the context that if you create new realities every time you time travel, and the odds are so stacked in favour of Thanos, in order to save X trillion people in their timeline the Avengers created n*X timelines thus creating n*X trillions of people who will die and the same amount who will mourn them and suffer. The Avengers have created more pain than they eased.

It's not something easy to handweave away, for me.

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That's not how multiversal theory works. Infinite timelines exist. You dont "create" new ones when you time travel in the film, just observe that they exist.

 

[Yasuke]

How about the timelines they create?

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Those timelines have their own Avengers and such with their own odds of defeating Thanos. They're not their problem.

 

[Halbrand]

Yeah that's kind of messy too.

Honestly (and sorry this is going to be long) my theory based on the Ancient One's speech and Banner+Tony+Clint's speech was that they hired consultants and went with a particular theory about quantum physics that well, in broad terms (I'm not qualified in any way to explain this but I have a good friend who's a physicists who could do this better) goes like this:

Relativity is that one theory that can imply that time is just another dimension and you can travel it: and since it's a dimension, the universe is contiguous and that's how you get the "run so fast you can travel in time" stuff. Everything happens at the same time, so if I kill Marty McFly's dad in 1978, Marty disappears in 2010 - at the same "time".

One theory derived from quantum physics is that the universe (and time) instead is a discreet thing, you can't really travel from one spot to the other because once something happened it happened. If you could actually travel back in time, you'd enter that moment in time (a discreet thing) and do your changes and what would happen is that this very long chain of pearls that are the snapshots of time would chance at the same pace as time progresses. So the new past never catches up to your presence. People would never have to deal with their memories being changed or something like that, because every snapshot, every "pearl" evolves at the same pace. It's not multiverses - it's one universe rewriting itself constantly, but never catching up.

But I was ultimately wrong, because the Russos said it's multiverses.

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That's the Doctor Who direction I expected them to go for before I saw the movie, but it definitely wasn't the case even without any post commentary from the Russos. The physicists who consulted seem to have argued in favour of branching timelines. Tony name drops the Deutsch Proposition, Deutsch being a physicist who believes in the Many Worlds idea of branching timelines.

 

[Visanideth]

Those timelines have their own Avengers and such with their own odds of defeating Thanos. They're not their problem.

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That's... a way to see it, I guess.


But this brings us back to the rat problem.

The Russos state that there's infinite timelines, and timelines are different. In one timeline the rat does it, in many other it doesn't do it. Ok.

So, if the Avengers are not visiting their own timeline but others to pluck the stones out, and the timelines aren't identical, how do they make sure they enter a timeline where New York exist, or that there's even Avengers?
The entire "official" theory of the movie flip flops between alternate timelines and timelines like it doesn't care. If you postulate that there's timelines where the rat doesn't exist and there's at least one timeline where Cap can go into hiding without creating thousands new timelines due to how it works, then how can they be sure that the timelines they visit have everything they need to succeed?

The sentence about the rat really doesn't make sense. The moment Strange gives the Time Stone to Thanos, he sets the universe on ONE course that leads to the end of Endgame. The alternate timelines need to be identical before any external intervention changes them to work, or they're a multiverse, and the avengers have no way to know what they'll find when they visit them. And if that's the case, the discussion about the rat means the Russos don't get their time travel, because the rat needs to behave the same way in every universe.

 

[Halbrand]

If Cap going back to be with Peggy is in an alternate timeline that alone causes an infinite amount of timelines, with young Steve going to a new different timeline in each new one.

 

[DeltaRed]

I was thinking Widow saying Hawkeye didn't judge her by her worst mistakes is similar to what he says to Wanda in AOU, "It doesn't matter what you did, or what you were." Arrow guy always giving second chances.

 

[FFNB]

I've seen the movie four times at this point, which is nuts for me, but one of the things that really jumped out at me, that I noticed in my second or third viewing, but didn't really think to much of it, was Bucky and Caps interactions at the end of the film. I'm 100% certain Cap told Bucky that he was planning on staying with Peggy.

Bucky's line, "I'll miss you, buddy," and Steve's, "You'll be okay," would be an odd exchange for someone who was, theoretically, supposed to step on the platform, disappear, then return in 10 seconds. Bucky's smile as he turns away to see Steve on the bench, as Sam is in the background yelling at Hulk to bring him back, is also a telling moment. Him and his expression were the focal points of that shot, and that smirk was totally him thinking, "Hey, he did it."

 

[Serpens007]

That's... a way to see it, I guess.


But this brings us back to the rat problem.

The Russos state that there's infinite timelines, and timelines are different. In one timeline the rat does it, in many other it doesn't do it. Ok.

So, if the Avengers are not visiting their own timeline but others to pluck the stones out, and the timelines aren't identical, how do they make sure they enter a timeline where New York exist, or that there's even Avengers?
The entire "official" theory of the movie flip flops between alternate timelines and timelines like it doesn't care. If you postulate that there's timelines where the rat doesn't exist and there's at least one timeline where Cap can go into hiding without creating thousands new timelines due to how it works, then how can they be sure that the timelines they visit have everything they need to succeed?

The sentence about the rat really doesn't make sense. The moment Strange gives the Time Stone to Thanos, he sets the universe on ONE course that leads to the end of Endgame. The alternate timelines need to be identical before any external intervention changes them to work, or they're a multiverse, and the avengers have no way to know what they'll find when they visit them. And if that's the case, the discussion about the rat means the Russos don't get their time travel, because the rat needs to behave the same way in every universe.

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I imagine that it's since they are traveling through their own timeline, creating a branch once they get to the past, since the past of the current future can't be changed.

Strange set the course for THAT timeline to have the potential to get into the ONE course that leads to the win.

 

[Ragnorok64]

That's... a way to see it, I guess.


But this brings us back to the rat problem.

The Russos state that there's infinite timelines, and timelines are different. In one timeline the rat does it, in many other it doesn't do it. Ok.

So, if the Avengers are not visiting their own timeline but others to pluck the stones out, and the timelines aren't identical, how do they make sure they enter a timeline where New York exist, or that there's even Avengers?
The entire "official" theory of the movie flip flops between alternate timelines and timelines like it doesn't care. If you postulate that there's timelines where the rat doesn't exist and there's at least one timeline where Cap can go into hiding without creating thousands new timelines due to how it works, then how can they be sure that the timelines they visit have everything they need to succeed?

The sentence about the rat really doesn't make sense. The moment Strange gives the Time Stone to Thanos, he sets the universe on ONE course that leads to the end of Endgame. The alternate timelines need to be identical before any external intervention changes them to work, or they're a multiverse, and the avengers have no way to know what they'll find when they visit them. And if that's the case, the discussion about the rat means the Russos don't get their time travel, because the rat needs to behave the same way in every universe.

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The movie uses alternate timeline and alternate reality interchangeably, but what you're referring to are alternate dimensions or universes. Alternate universes tend to involve significantly different worlds and histories.

Within this movie they travel to points in thier own history where they've intersected with a stone. So the timelines are identical until they show up, start changing stuff, and cause a new timeline to splinter off. Now if they were to keep the stones, that splinter would be doomed, but since they return the stones that doomed branch is clipped. Though that reality with continue on along a different trajectory where in Loki escapes in 2012, Howard has a heart to heart with "Howard" and there's a security breach, Thanos and his army straight disappear, etc.

I wonder if Thor's mom survives Dark World with the knowledge that Thor was trying to warn her that day, even if she turned down the specific warning?

 

[Alice]

Glad to see that discussion about "Timelines" hasn't moved an inch since the last time.

Protip: The most accepted theory when it comes to our reality, is also that there's a vast amount of universes splitting off at certain branches of history actions or non-actions.

To every reality, their reality is the reality, doesn't mean you're suddenly responsible for all the others when there's absolutely no damn tangible way to interact.

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Glad to see that discussion about "Timelines" hasn't moved an inch since the last time.

Protip: The most accepted theory when it comes to our reality, is also that there's a vast amount of universes splitting off at certain branches of history actions or non-actions.

To every reality, their reality is the reality, doesn't mean you're suddenly responsible for all the others when there's absolutely no damn tangible way to interact.

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NO

ONLY ONE STEVE ROGERS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY 9/11 IN EVERY REALITY

FOR REASONS

 

[Alice]

NO

ONLY ONE STEVE ROGERS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY 9/11 IN EVERY REALITY

FOR REASONS

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Steve Rogers was Thanos all along.

Also this "it's totally a bummer that there are other realities where people don't fare so well" argument is silly when you consider that that was the point why Cap went to return the things they took in the first place.

They did everything to fix the prime reality, AND to prevent it from actually branching off into different realities that would fare worse than ours did. Technically they even helped remove Thanos from one reality forever.

 

[Serpens007]

NO

ONLY ONE STEVE ROGERS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY 9/11 IN EVERY REALITY

FOR REASONS

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I remember the "Steve Rogers is the real villain of the MCU" take lol

 

[Yasuke]

That's... a way to see it, I guess.


But this brings us back to the rat problem.

The Russos state that there's infinite timelines, and timelines are different. In one timeline the rat does it, in many other it doesn't do it. Ok.

So, if the Avengers are not visiting their own timeline but others to pluck the stones out, and the timelines aren't identical, how do they make sure they enter a timeline where New York exist, or that there's even Avengers?
The entire "official" theory of the movie flip flops between alternate timelines and timelines like it doesn't care. If you postulate that there's timelines where the rat doesn't exist and there's at least one timeline where Cap can go into hiding without creating thousands new timelines due to how it works, then how can they be sure that the timelines they visit have everything they need to succeed?

The sentence about the rat really doesn't make sense. The moment Strange gives the Time Stone to Thanos, he sets the universe on ONE course that leads to the end of Endgame. The alternate timelines need to be identical before any external intervention changes them to work, or they're a multiverse, and the avengers have no way to know what they'll find when they visit them. And if that's the case, the discussion about the rat means the Russos don't get their time travel, because the rat needs to behave the same way in every universe.

Click to shrink...

You just don't understand the premise of time travel very well.

Any time the Avengers travel to NY during the summer of 2012, there will be a battle featuring the Avengers and Loki. That timeline doesn't become different from theirs until they show up and start mucking about in it.

There's no timeline where that rat doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and effects that timeline in such a way that would prevent that rat from ever existing.

There's no timeline where New York doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and sets forth events that would...nuke NY? Or prevent it from ever becoming NY. Or whatever.

You're creating issues that don't exist with the MCU's version of time travel, and I'm sure it begins and ends with you confusing alternate timelines and alternate dimensions.

 

[xxracerxx]

I've seen the movie four times at this point, which is nuts for me, but one of the things that really jumped out at me, that I noticed in my second or third viewing, but didn't really think to much of it, was Bucky and Caps interactions at the end of the film. I'm 100% certain Cap told Bucky that he was planning on staying with Peggy.

Bucky's line, "I'll miss you, buddy," and Steve's, "You'll be okay," would be an odd exchange for someone who was, theoretically, supposed to step on the platform, disappear, then return in 10 seconds. Bucky's smile as he turns away to see Steve on the bench, as Sam is in the background yelling at Hulk to bring him back, is also a telling moment. Him and his expression were the focal points of that shot, and that smirk was totally him thinking, "Hey, he did it."

Click to shrink...

Only seen it once, but it was obvious that Bucky knew as soon as he told Sam to go on and speak with Cap.

 

[Visanideth]

You just don't understand the premise of time travel very well.

Any time the Avengers travel to NY during the summer of 2012, there will be a battle featuring the Avengers and Loki. That timeline doesn't become different from theirs until they show up and start mucking about in it.

There's no timeline where that rat doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and effects that timeline in such a way that would prevent that rat from ever existing.

There's no timeline where New York doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and sets forth events that would...nuke NY? Or prevent it from ever becoming NY. Or whatever.

You're creating issues that don't exist with the MCU's version of time travel, and I'm sure it begins and ends with you confusing alternate timelines and alternate dimensions.

Click to shrink...

Then why do the Russos say there's a huge number of timelines where the rat doesn't trigger the machine and the avengers don't get to save anyone?

 

[Trup1aya]

That has got to be the worst analogy ever.

Nobody forced the Russos to write the story in a way that implies the genocide of trillions of people (how many people do avengers kill whenever they create a new timeline, by chance?) just to add some spectacle.

It's superficial storytelling and I think it's precisely what whoever wrote the Ancient One's speech wanted to avoid. They wanted to avoid people having to think that there was one reality where the avengers won and 14 millions where they lost.

But the Russos wanted to shoot Cap dancing, and here we are.

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There are several MCU movies worth of evidence that multiple timelines exist. This has long been the plan... It isn't Russos doing, and will likely be a plot point going forward.

And TAOs speech doesn't counter this theory. It supports it... Just like her speech in Dr Strange.

 

[Truant]

You guys are thinking way too hard about this.

 

[DeltaRed]

The movie tries to dump on BTTF but at least everyone understand's whats happening there. Should have copied it, Thanos is Biff.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

don't worry yall, reed richards is coming

phase 5 otw

 

[ZattMurdock]

The movie tries to dump on BTTF but at least everyone understand's whats happening there. Should have copied it, Thanos is Biff.

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I don't agree with you, I think the Russos are lying and that the screenwriters reading of the film is what the film actually tells us, but you did make me chuckle. Thanos as Biff as Trump is too perfect.

 

[Serpens007]

You just don't understand the premise of time travel very well.

Any time the Avengers travel to NY during the summer of 2012, there will be a battle featuring the Avengers and Loki. That timeline doesn't become different from theirs until they show up and start mucking about in it.

There's no timeline where that rat doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and effects that timeline in such a way that would prevent that rat from ever existing.

There's no timeline where New York doesn't exist unless someone travels back in time and sets forth events that would...nuke NY? Or prevent it from ever becoming NY. Or whatever.

You're creating issues that don't exist with the MCU's version of time travel, and I'm sure it begins and ends with you confusing alternate timelines and alternate dimensions.

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No, you're wrong. There are timelines where the Rat didn't do anything. But the 2023 Avengers can't travel there since it's not their past.


But...

You guys are thinking way too hard about this.

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Basically this

 

[Yasuke]

Then why do the Russos say there's a huge number of timelines where the rat doesn't trigger the machine and the avengers don't get to save anyone?

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The rat not triggering the machine doesn't mean the rat doesn't exist. It just means it nearly missed it or something happened in its timeline preventing it from getting to that point.

What that something was is impossible to say.

 

[Trup1aya]

How about the timelines they create?

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"create" really isn't the best word to use. its the simplest way to articulate these branches though.

if you create timeline in 2012, but the timelines history extends back trillions years before that day, then did you really create it?

actually our heroes are observing that other timelines exist... and these particular timelines had people come from a timeline that was further along and do things.

Then why do the Russos say there's a huge number of timelines where the rat doesn't trigger the machine and the avengers don't get to save anyone?

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if there's a timeline where the rat doesn't trigger the machine, it's not likely to be directly due to the Avengers traveling back in time.

 

[FFNB]

Only seen it once, but it was obvious that Bucky knew as soon as he told Sam to go on and speak with Cap.

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That too. XD

I've just seen a lot of people saying how Cap just completely bailed on Bucky, but I think Buck was more than happy for Steve getting his happy ending.

 

[Serpens007]

Off topic question, but which mobile Marvel game is OK at least?

 

[Chikor]

Or it could also be a good indicator that people had trouble understanding it. It could be the writing, or it could simply be something people couldn't pick up as easy (maybe comic book people pick it up easier, etc)

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If people having trouble understanding it, that's a pretty good indicator that it's not clear I think.
I mean, this is not Primer, I don't think they tried to create a clever puzzle that require careful and repeated viewing to get.
It's a summer blockbuster and I think they just had this idea that literally visiting some of the other MCU movies would be cool (and I think they were right, it's a cool idea, if anything I think they didn't do enough with it) and they kinda handwaved the time travel stuff, I don't think it was awful or anything and it really didn't impact my opinion of the movie one war or another, but I think it wasn't super coherent.

 

[Trup1aya]

If people having trouble understanding it, that's a pretty good indicator that it's not clear I think.
I mean, this is not Primer, I don't think they tried to create a clever puzzle that require careful and repeated viewing to get.
It's a summer blockbuster and I think they just had this idea that literally visiting some of the other MCU movies would be cool (and I think they were right, it's a cool idea, if anything I think they didn't do enough with it) and they kinda handwaved the time travel stuff, I don't think it was awful or anything and it really didn't impact my opinion of the movie one war or another, but I think it wasn't super coherent.

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At this point, I'm going to have to accept that it was poorly explained, even though the in-movie explanations worked for me. The Russo explanation should've eliminated any talk of potholes, but then the writers suggested that with Cap's scene, they'd intended to ignore the version of time travel they'd been adhering too for the rest of the film.

At the end of the day, interviews with directors and screen writers shouldn't be necessary to explain primary plot devices. So with the amount of confusion still running rampant, I'm going to have to say they dropped the ball here.

I'm certain Phase 4 movies will work to settle the issue. This discussion isn't going to die down before Spider-Man Far From Home. And It doesn't seem like this plot point is going anywhere after Endgame. It wasn't just a handwaved excuse to revisit old scenes. It was a long-game plan with seeds planted in earlier phases and with ramifications for future phases.

 

[Masterz1337]

Then why do the Russos say there's a huge number of timelines where the rat doesn't trigger the machine and the avengers don't get to save anyone?

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Strange looked at the possible timelines in which they won. The only one where they won needed tony to survive and the rat to bring back antman. If the rat hadn't done what it did, that possible timeline would have never happened. So Strange set everything he needed to up, so that by chance the rat could bring them back.

 

[Ragnorok64]

People keep mentioning the rat, but honestly given the difference in how time was passing, something or someone was bound to hit that button. Let's say that 24 hours/years passed by. You think no one would have bought the van in an auction or whatever? The chances that something would have freed him goes up and up over time.

 

[ZiggyPalffyLA]

Endgame brought up an interesting idea for me: Why should we care about the fate of this universe/timeline's heroes any more than the ones from a universe/timeline that they completed fucked up/destroyed in the movie? Sure, the MCU we know and love had a happy ending, but there are so many people dead or suffering in other timelines and universes, much of that due to the direct interference in Endgame.

 

[Ragnorok64]

Endgame brought up an interesting idea for me: Why should we care about the fate of this universe/timeline's heroes any more than the ones from a universe/timeline that they completed fucked up/destroyed in the movie? Sure, the MCU we know and love had a happy ending, but there are so many people dead or suffering in other timelines and universes, much of that due to the direct interference in Endgame.

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What timelines did they destroy? At most maybe the one where Loki got away with the Tesseract but there's no guarantee that will necessarily doom people. It will ensure that Thor will stick around longer.

 

[ZiggyPalffyLA]

What timelines did they destroy? At most maybe the one where Loki got away with the Tesseract but there's no guarantee that will necessarily doom people. It will ensure that Thor will stick around longer.

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They interfered in ways we can't possibly imagine the consequences of. It's why I don't like when time travel gets introduced into a series that's not about time travel from day 1.

 

[Equanimity]

I watched it last Saturday with the family; it was pretty good and I loved the way they handled some of the character arcs.

The final battle was underwhelming though, I expected more coming after Infinity War.

 

[Trup1aya]

Endgame brought up an interesting idea for me: Why should we care about the fate of this universe/timeline's heroes any more than the ones from a universe/timeline that they completed fucked up/destroyed in the movie? Sure, the MCU we know and love had a happy ending, but there are so many people dead or suffering in other timelines and universes, much of that due to the direct interference in Endgame.

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They didn't doom any timelines...

The biggest question mark is the timeline where Loki got away. But for all we know, Thanos never got ahold of all the Stones in that timeline.

As for the others, the Avengers were essentially never there. There impact was minimal. Those timeline still have all the tools to contend with Thanos.

I think the bigger question is whether or not borrowing these stones was ethical in the first place. Had they failed prior to borrowing the stones, then every timeline they stole from would likely have suffered greatly (in addition to the all life being wiped from the prime timeline)...And they were moments away from failing again.

They interfered in ways we can't possibly imagine the consequences of. It's why I don't like when time travel gets introduced into a series that's not about time travel from day 1.

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The moment they introduced Ant-Man in Phase 1, I felt Time-travel was likely incoming and then Dr. Strange came out and it was obvious.

 

[Solo]

It just occurred to me now that Dr Strange gave up the time stone to Thanos because, in seeing the 1 in 14 million chance to defeat Thanos, knew Tony had to live until the end, so he had to give up the stone to spare Tony's life. Thanos was going to kill him in Infinity War until Strange gave up the stone. So he saved his life for the express purpose of him being able to lay it down 5 years later to defeat Thanos in Endgame.

 

[Ragnorok64]

They interfered in ways we can't possibly imagine the consequences of. It's why I don't like when time travel gets introduced into a series that's not about time travel from day 1.

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That in no way, shape, or form answers my question.

 

[Chikor]

At this point, I'm going to have to accept that it was poorly explained, even though the in-movie explanations worked for me. The Russo explanation should've eliminated any talk of potholes, but then the writers suggested that with Cap's scene, they'd intended to ignore the version of time travel they'd been adhering too for the rest of the film.

At the end of the day, interviews with directors and screen writers shouldn't be necessary to explain primary plot devices. So with the amount of confusion still running rampant, I'm going to have to say they dropped the ball here.

I'm certain Phase 4 movies will work to settle the issue. This discussion isn't going to die down before Spider-Man Far From Home. And It doesn't seem like this plot point is going anywhere after Endgame. It wasn't just a handwaved excuse to revisit old scenes. It was a long-game plan with seeds planted in earlier phases and with ramifications for future phases.

Click to shrink...

FWIW it worked for me as well.
I wouldn't have mind if they could come up with something that felt a bit more tidy, but I don't think that I would have liked an exposition dump scene where the would be plot holes are "explained" in great sci-fi mumbo jumbo detail.

 

[DragonSJG]

Is there an alternate timeline where the decimation was permanent?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Is there an alternate timeline where the decimation was permanent?

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over 14 million of them

 

[Ragnorok64]

over 14 million of them

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That was 14 million possible futures, not 14 million alternate realities.

 

[ZiggyPalffyLA]

That in no way, shape, or form answers my question.

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And you didn't answer mine, but who cares? We're talking about comic book movies, it's just mindless speculation.

 

[Ragnorok64]

And you didn't answer mine, but who cares? We're talking about comic book movies, it's just mindless speculation.

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So you've got nothing.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

I'm gonna be that weirdo who thinks Starlord is an annoying - albeit funny - character, and who got a laugh out of his kinda monkeypaw moment of realizing Gamora has no idea who he is.

At this point, I'm going to have to accept that it was poorly explained, even though the in-movie explanations worked for me.

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Honestly I think there's too much effort to put blame on one place or the other when it's pretty evident there are issues on both ends. Some of the script was likely a bit more vague than the writers thought it would be; some people aren't as good at reading movies as they think they are.

 

[ZiggyPalffyLA]

So you've got nothing.

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Why are you trying to argue? Look at what we're discussing. I don't care. I was asking a simple question.

 

[Frostinferno]

Off topic question, but which mobile Marvel game is OK at least?

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Marvel Future Fight is by far the best. Once you get used to the mobile game nature of it, it's arguably the best Marvel game period when it comes to fanservice/content.