She just went off on her own. Unlike Nebula she had no reason to stick around with the Guardians or Avengers.
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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch
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She just went off on her own. Unlike Nebula she had no reason to stick around with the Guardians or Avengers.
I *might* have imagined this in my head, but I recall there being speculation that it was going to take place in the 60s or 70s after Agent Carter, and basically be about her origins in the Black Widow program. She was never frozen but isn't there some suggestion in the movies that she's actually older than she looks? Maybe I'm just confusing her comic origins instead. Hmmm.
I don't know, they had a connection but obviously not enough to keep in contact when the dust settled. Lots of questions left unanswered with that Gamora.
One important thing that means EVERYTHING if you want to be that guy and NOTHING if you just want to enjoy movies is the fact that Strange seemingly had to prompt Tony into sacrificing himself.
Now, this goes back into Strange apparently picking one of 14 million outcomes by giving the stone to Thanos, without having any other way to influence the outcome.
Which means that once he gave the stone to Thanos, there was really just one possible future and things would fix themselves.
So while the 14 million futures line is cool and makes things sound epic, the reality of it was "there's a scenario where we give him the stone and everything goes our way, or we can not give the stone and lose in 14 millions different ways". Strange had no ways to steer things in the right direction after he gave Thanos the stone, so there wasn't multiple scenarios past that points that would lead to defeat.
Now, this goes back into Strange apparently picking one of 14 million outcomes by giving the stone to Thanos, without having any other way to influence the outcome.
Which means that once he gave the stone to Thanos, there was really just one possible future and things would fix themselves.
So while the 14 million futures line is cool and makes things sound epic, the reality of it was "there's a scenario where we give him the stone and everything goes our way, or we can not give the stone and lose in 14 millions different ways". Strange had no ways to steer things in the right direction after he gave Thanos the stone, so there wasn't multiple scenarios past that points that would lead to defeat.
Because James Gunn was executive producer on Endgame and he wants to shoot a gonzo version of The Search for Spock with GotG3.
This all checks out if they are going for the power level exclusively. I am approaching this more from the Lex Luthor (when he is written good) vs Superman dynamic initially. His power comes in the form of scheming and the building himself up along. Doom can throw many wrenches out there. Especially if we see the rise of other iconic villams he can ally with. I am more or less arguing not to break out Galactus, Mephisto, etc. as the big bads... yet.
Reset the super power arms race and have it more of slow burn plans unfolding in which power levels won't solve the issue.
I totally forgot about that!
This implies Loki may never have a redemptive arc in that timeline.
That's a question for GOTG3, but Nebula did kill her sister (past Nebula), and she practically has no other connection to any of the prime timeline people.
I still prefer my original idea that it's 2 hours of Scarlett Johansson and Zoe Saldana in bikinis chilling out in the Soulstone.
It's not a hand wave. It's perfectly consistent.
When a person travels in time, they create a new timeline. This doesn't mean they generate a new reality. it means they alter the trajectory of the reality they arrive in, sending it in a new direction.
When our MCU Captain left the prime timeline to stay with Peggy Carter, he set off an event that sent this reality in on divergent course - a new timeline. He lived a full life, then he jumped back to the MCU. At this instant, his arrival would set the MCU on a divergent path ie, a new timeline for the reality we've been witnessing all along. The dyanmic doesn't change between "visitors" and "visited". So yes, by those rules, when Thanos jumped forward into the primetime line, he altered the trajectory of it- creating a new timeline for our reality. The theory doesn't break.
People have to stop assuming plot holes simply because they don't follow the logic.
Why would Thanos jump to the future of another timeline? Because he didn't like the idea of his work being undone. Had he succeeded in stopping the Avengers in Endgame, he could have returned to his timeline with a full Gauntlet and performed the snap there too. Why wouldn't he want his plan to occur and last in as many realities as possible?
Captain didn't "delete" anyone's family - because Peggy's MCU family didn't exist in that reality. Nothing was "undone" as far as that reality is concerned, that future was never on the table for Peggy. You're talking about hypotheticals that don't matter because they aren't "real" in that universe. Peggy's family would still remain the same in the MCU timeline, and an infinite number of timelines that mirror it as far as Peggy is concerned. There's no need to mourn for Peggy's family.
It's also unlikely that he "stole" a shield. There's literally an infinite number of ways he could have legitimately come up with a shield in this alternate reality. Why would you assume he stole it? Because you don't like time travel?
Finally, chances are there will always be consequences for time travel. Just because this particular arc has seen a resolution, doesn't mean our hereos didn't inadvertently send the MCU and other realities on a dark path. Stark even alluded to the consequences of messing with time. It doesn't take much of a stretch to assume Marvel will drum up an interesting way to dissuade our heroes from taking these measures again - if for nothing else, to avoid retreading.
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They can finally adapt Apocalypse's origin in Ancient Egypt where Kang fought a young Apocalypse as Rama-Tut.
This was canon in the 90's Apocalypse mini-series!
Unsure. But I think we need to accept that some things need to be taken for facts. Like, they insist that Nat's sacrifice is permanent, but they also have Gamora back in the main universe.
I see it that way too - in the sense that while IW had 14 million possible endings or whatever, once IW happened, Endgame could only happen this way because this was the way that the OG Avengers would behave and it was always going to end this way. Although I guess there is that other alternate ending where Strange tells Tony what's about to happen after he comes back, and then Tony flies off instead and everyone loses. Looooool!
Tony probably knows about Gamora, I guess Thor or Banner could have told him she's the person who snitched on Thanos to begin with.
Past Gamora is literally another person though.
But yeah, with the multiverse and time travel, the door is always open for them to bring anyone back now.
You guys do realize that Disney+ will have a What If? Series that takes place in the MCU right? That alone should have given you a hint in the first place this is multiverse time travel
I mean they had to pull a Gamora from a different point in time. The Gamora we really know is still dead.
The chain of event of Thanos looking into main timeline Nebula's memory, was started right before Clint and Rhodey leaves that 2014 timeline to the main timeline. Steve returning those stones to that 2014 timeline isn't going to stop Thanos from learning everything and stepping into the main timeline eventually.
Which means in order words, the 2014 timeline always have all stones, but 2014 Thanos thought otherwise (because he wasn't aware Steve/Bruce was gonna return the stones of 2014 back) and assume (like The Ancient One initially) that 2014 timeline is going to be missing 1 or 2 stones permanently from the timeline and thus invade the main timeline.
Which means in order words, the 2014 timeline always have all stones, but 2014 Thanos thought otherwise (because he wasn't aware Steve/Bruce was gonna return the stones of 2014 back) and assume (like The Ancient One initially) that 2014 timeline is going to be missing 1 or 2 stones permanently from the timeline and thus invade the main timeline.
Yeah, I think the only thing that stops them from going an picking up one of the 14 million+ Natashas that are still alive in all the other realities is that the 14 million other Avengers would miss her precisely as much as they do.
Did I mention multiple realities cheapen narratives a bit :P ?
I don't think it's that complicated, the Avengers were basically already doing his job for him, and Thanos just took the shortcut to get all the stones immediately.
I didn't know this.
A big budget, fully funded and committed "What If?" series is a fucking dream. Hell, gimme a 6-part Marvel 1602 while we're at it. I WANT ALL OF IT DISNEY.
Great movie.
But it has more plot holes than Swiss cheese.
One I just thought of now. Why did they need to time travel to get all the stones when they could of just got the time stone, which would of given them complete mastery over time?
But it has more plot holes than Swiss cheese.
One I just thought of now. Why did they need to time travel to get all the stones when they could of just got the time stone, which would of given them complete mastery over time?
I think the most interesting potential for that angle is BP2
Who has been leading Wakanda for the last five years? And are they just going to give it up now that T'Challa is back?
If its unnatural avoidable death like car accident then yah, but its natural death or unnatural unavoidable death then no.
Like you can rewind to a month before Titanic set sail and tell the passengers not to board it. Or tell a village to evacuate because a tornado is going to hit their place 2 months later.
So its not really a binary thing. Its a yes and no.
Or maybe because the Avengers are woke and understand what consent means. :)
Tony knows that if he doesn't do that, Morgan has a 100% chance of dying, and he does too.
But now I'm imagining a scene where Tony fights Thanos using the infinity stones instead of snapping. If his body could hold out even for just a couple minutes... imagine Tony's brain having access to infinity stones fuckery.
There's been nothing shown that indicates the time stone can actually move the user forward and back in time like that. We've only ever seen it used to make loops and turn back the clock on specific moments.
I think you can "reverse" natural death too, but you would simply be reversing a person's individual "time". So if someone dies of old age and you reverse it an hour, an hour later that person would still die of old age. Or even cancer or whatever. You could probably use the time stone to reverse several years of that person's life, but that would mean those years are reversed for that person and he doesn't remember any of those things. Could be a pretty weird experience.
I guess I'm still thinking of them from the comics.
Each stone is supposed to be the zenith of power in each of it's field.
I think this is where infinity realities vs a single real timeline makes sense.
If it was one timeline that is constantly changing (a closed loop), then snatching Gamora and bringing her in the future would be a 100% positive action and could be applied to Natasha too. She was pretty adamant about not wanting to die (which is different from being fine sacrificing her life, to elaborate on your point about consent). You go pick her up, fixed. She's the same person, in the same timeline, who was dead for a while.
But if it's multiple realities, well yeah, you screw up some of them, and you're factually taking a different person to your reality.
It's animated unfortunately. The first one is What If Peggy got the super soldier serum. I think it's still a cool idea and will check it out when it hits Canada.
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Yes! The unsnap opens up many interesinting storytelling opportunities for all their properties. Especially in BP now that you mention it.
I think the idea is that the time stone can reverse and forward time in its own timeline. Meaning you could rewind in the same line of events and try to change things, like fighting Thanos 13 million times and losing. Or give him the stone knowing eventually you'll win :p .
well yah precisely what I kinda mean. It doesn't really change much.
Thats true in the end. Jumping to Endgame event timeline is easier than gathering the stones himself anyway.
Because the only way they can do that is with the Eye of Agamotto. And only the master of the mystic arts could wield it
I want a movie showing ant-man's road trip across the US in the beat up van helping average folks in flyover states.
I'm pretty sure in interviews etc they said Okoye took over, which seems to make sense and tally with her reporting in from Wakanda to Avengers HQ after the time jump. She's one of the leaders - there's Rocket handling part of Space, Danvers handling the other, and then Rhodes, Widow and Okoye are handling various aspects of Earth. Maybe M'Baku was so shellshocked by what he'd seen he didn't want to take over.
Any word on the giant blu ray box set that encompasses everything from Iron Man 1 to Endgame? I've been holding off on Marvel blu rays since Guardians of the Galaxy knowing this would eventually be happening. Best guess is this Christmas?
I think in the movies the powers of the time stone are on a local scale unless paired with the whole gauntlet which makes it universal. The same with the reality stone, that would sort of explain why Malekith needs the convergence to bring everything together once he has the Aether? Thats my head canon anyway.
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They managed to get Incredible Hulk into their phase 1 boxsets, so, maybe? Would be a glaring omission if they didn't. I wonder if they'll wait for FFH to do the full set, since that's now considered to be the last piece of phase 3 as well.
I wish for a 7 episodes series Steve Roger's adventure to return the stones, each 15 mins episode showing Steve returning a stone. The last episode showing Steve Rogers living out his life with Peggy.
They included Incredible Hulk in the Phase 1 boxset, so you'd think so
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