Nah. Look at Ragnarok - he literally tells Hela he'd love for someone else to take the throne, but he can't let it be her because she's just the worst. He trusts Valkyrie with Asgard so he doesn't need to be its king, which suits him just fine.
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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch
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Nah. Look at Ragnarok - he literally tells Hela he'd love for someone else to take the throne, but he can't let it be her because she's just the worst. He trusts Valkyrie with Asgard so he doesn't need to be its king, which suits him just fine.
As was mentioned on the last page. Red Skull says "you must lose that which you love". He never mentions sacrificing or killing somebody. You just have to lose the one you love. So if Nat had killed herself, Clint would have lost the one he loves.
But then thinking about Gamora. She attempted to kill herself before Thanos turned her knife to bubbles. Her suicide would have awarded Thanos the soul stone if we follow this logic. Unless the one which you love have to be thrown off the cliff, which Red Skull never explicitly says.
A lot of people seem to be misreading the Soul Stone thing. The Soul Stone requires sacrificing what you love and what Widow is giving up is her love - the rest of her life with her family.
Both the Avengers and Clint's family are the only family she's ever known. She gives up her own life because of how much she loves them. She was also paying a debt she owed Clint for saving her life pre-Avengers.
Clint would have been giving up his life for his actual family, a similar sacrifice. He thought himself irredeemable for what he had become.
The Soul Stone bit contains no further thinking required.
Both the Avengers and Clint's family are the only family she's ever known. She gives up her own life because of how much she loves them. She was also paying a debt she owed Clint for saving her life pre-Avengers.
Clint would have been giving up his life for his actual family, a similar sacrifice. He thought himself irredeemable for what he had become.
The Soul Stone bit contains no further thinking required.
They're connected but they can't be influencing the Movies (the TV show is a spin-off after all), that does not mean they're not cannon...they have to have stories in which we can't expect people from other movies/shows to jump in and save the day...for eg, where was everyone when Hydra was causing trouble in Winter Soldier?
They said something about trying other things but it not necessarily meaning Avengers is done. I think we won't get a big teamup movie in Phase 4 and would instead get one in Phase 5. That's like 6-7 years of waiting now.
Yar, on its own Thor: Ragnarok feels triumphant and optimistic, but in light of both Infinity War and Endgame it turns out to be a super cruel movie...
Friends. Arguably the two greatest superhero films ever made, are about multiverse time traveling.
No, that would have worked. You are just retconning the logic for this new scene to make sense. It doesn't.
Well Tony literally had an opportunity brought right to his doorstep to help save trillions.
People could say Cap is being selfish too if they want, but it'd be a real dick move for any of the Avengers to actually say that to him considering all he's done. The soldier has to rest sometime. He wanted his dance.
No?
Lose what you love, and you get the stone. That's it.
I think the people are overcomplicating this is because they're conflating with how these kind of things go in other movies. Like you can just picture in your head "Sacrifice what you love most, and you get your reward." in some other movie. But the actual dialogue didn't actually say any of that, so...
What? That is a terrible test then since it doesn't require any action on the part of the person being awarded the Stone. I think you're wrong
I have seen this twice now. Fantastic both times. I had chills with Cap picking up mjolnir and when the portals opened.
Also read a couple of people mentioning how dark the final battle was, almost looked like a DC movie!. But i figured it kinda made sense as Thanos had just bombarded the area.. gonna be alot of dust/ dirt etc kicked up into the air.. or atleast that's how I rationalized it.
Also read a couple of people mentioning how dark the final battle was, almost looked like a DC movie!. But i figured it kinda made sense as Thanos had just bombarded the area.. gonna be alot of dust/ dirt etc kicked up into the air.. or atleast that's how I rationalized it.
Oooh alright Terry Technicality... still a really good roster mind.
And you're smoking plastic if you think they won't put some sort of reference or Fox IP in the next few films
I mean, Nat did succeed in killing herself. Clint didn't let go, she pushed herself off the edge.
The geeks have taken over Hollywood, lol. (At least they're good geeks who care about representation.)
Yeah but they spent all that time in the final fight trying to get to the van with the quantum tunnel. If they have the ability to travel independently (as we see Cap and Tony do in 2012 to get to 1970), why didn't they just do that instead of fighting their way to the van?
The way I see it.. he did lead, he led New Asgard for five years, and he was terrible at it. He stayed at home, played games, got drunk while Valk was out there helping the people. She said so herself "He comes around once a week for Beer." Thor was a terrible king, but he's a great warrior, and he figures this out by the end of the film.
Phase 4 will be 5 yeras long. I can't imagine it won't close with another Avengers movie in 2024.
Lmao the more I read these posts, the less I even want to wrap my head around all this timey whimey bullshit. They could have absolutely done this movie in a way that didn't raise so many questions.
I think it's a pretty valid interpretation, but I just feel that "you must lose that which you love. A soul for a soul" suggests a straightforward "you lose a soul you love and get a soul (stone) in return".
Releasing cosmic energy from using all stones activated mutant genes.
One and Done !
Our Rogers. They are one in the same, the timelines merged. Basically once rogers left 2023 to go back to 1945 the timelines merged into one timeline. So just one cap.
Our cap goes back to 1945 had a life with peggy, knowing that he can't change anything. Gives up being Captain America, takes the last name carter more than likely get's a new identity since peggy is still with shield.
Lives out his life with her until 2014 when she dies. Hangs around for a couple years until 2023 and shows up on the bench. T he moment young cap goes into QR the timelines become one, and there's just one cap now who's like 100 years old or so.
The timeline of Peggy carter series is not being referenced only Jarvis played by same actor from the show as a easter egg for fans of the show. SHe says she married someone but wouldn't tell us in Winter Soldier, I believe seeing steve when she had alzheimer's was painful because she had lived her life with steve knowing she can't tell young steve or it would be undone.
So basically they foreshadowed this a long time ago. Never gave the name of her husband, hence why cap told SAM no, when he asked. Was afraid it would be undone, timeline wise and didn't want to take the chance in screwing up the timeline and erasing that lifetime he has with her.
Just introduce mutant genes. Imagine during the Wanda/vision series that's happening if she is in wakanda where they are rebuilding vision and they use her powers to make a similar stone that's not the infinity stone for vision and run tests on wanda finding out she's got some kind of weird chromosome. Hence why the hydra experiments worked on her and her brother.
Come to find out the power of the stone and hydra's experimenting unlocked what was already there. Watch her father not be dead. Remember they said they were killed from Starks missles. Imagine if her father being magneto controlled the missiles, and made it look like he died to protect her from hydra and others finding out about mutants.
Imagine if Pietro is alive, imagine magneto finds his body, takes him somewhere removes the bullets and finds a way to heal his body.
That would be cool.
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I guess there's the implication he made a trip to Wakanda to learn about Vibranium. I don't know if his final suit was made of Vibranium, but it worked the same way as T'Challa's Black Panther suit.
IW does take place two years after Civil War and Black Panther, so I imagine he got caught up on the tech.
They aren't wrong. The person getting the stone in both cases is losing something they love a lot. Natasha is a close aunt to Clint's family and they have been partners for over a decade. After his family gets wiped away, she's all that he has left. She also is the only one who believed in him enough to go get him in Japan.
They would both be making a large sacrifice if the other died, but would also both be making a large sacrifice by killing themselves. Because it goes both ways, it meets both criteria no matter what happens.
How does that make it the worst scene in the film?
Why should you have to earn a shot of all the female characters? Why should the shot be treated any differently than a mixed gender hero shot or an all male one?
I thought the point of all this was to normalize women in heroic roles, so that their big moments were not taken as some kind of statement.
Cap's arc was super satisfying. Tony's death didn't move me much, but Cap getting a happy ending sure did.
I don't think they'll go that route with characters who have been around for a long time like Apocalypse, lol. (Never mind characters like Wolverine, Magneto, Xavier, Mystique, etc.)
You're still losing someone you love, regardless of whether you're the one who throws them over the cliff or not. The pain and the loss is the point, not the act of murder.
I had this thought too. This movie is completely crazy and it's equally crazy how mainstream moviegoers are totally bought into it.
I feel like this is a good point. With the whole "a soul for a soul."
This makes less sense then. Cause with her sacrificing her family, why would Clint be the one to get the soul stone? Other than him being that family and him having lost one he loves. Then it makes sense.
Yeah, for about 53 years there are two Steve Rogers. The one frozen in 1945 that woke up in 2012 and the one who went back in time in 2023 to (presumably) 1970 so he could live out his life with Peggy.
The past can't be changed. Rogers still has to fall into the ice in '45, wake up in 2012, lead the Avengers, all that stuff. The Steve Rogers who has already been through all of that can't change or interfere with any of it otherwise the timeline, his future, will change and there's no way of knowing how.
So he kept out of everything, kept his existence a secret the entire time, didn't even go to Peggy's funeral since he had already been, and on the day he knows he would go back in time to be with Peggy, he sits on the nearby bench and waits for Bucky and Falcon.
The great thing about using Natasha and Clint for this scene is that it works in both contexts. They love each other and they love their families and would do anything for them.
I can't believe no one is talking about the biggest plot hole of them all: how fortnite is still a thing 5 years from now.
Mr. Sinister finally getting his chance to shine!
(Oh, that's not what you meant?)
We'll hear, but we're not getting a movie until 2022 at the earliest. Probably 2023.
I've always been Team Tony. The way Bucky said bye you just knew he was never coming back or something else. Just felt kind of selfish to me but it all made sense. Cap spent his life making sacrifices. There's no wars, Hydra and Thanos is gone so he did what Tony always said and take care of himself for once.
Thanks for the explanation. But why did the Avengers see their old selves (i.e. 2 of each hero) when they respectively traveled into different timelines to heist the stones?
Says it right there.
Also, since when does only a person have a soul? It's a metaphysical concept. Even if only people have souls, sacrificing your soul is what the Stone demands. Thus, theoretically all that matters is you cast down what is part of your soul, not another person.
They don't have anymore Pym Particles, and the Platform was destroyed by Thanos. The Van was the only working time travel / quantum device at that moment.
I dunno, but whatever it takes.
As soon as I realized they were going back in time, I thought he'd dance with her there. It didn't happen, and then I just kinda forgot about it, cuz Tony's sacrifice overshadowed everything. So glad they gave a great ending to Cap's arc as well.
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