• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
The idiom you're using strikes me as fairly conservative (people use it to talk about why taxes are bad).

Can you explain how it fits with corporate cities?
The 2 things are not mutually exclusive: you can be for criticizing/scrutinizing the legitimacy of use of tax dollars (especially when the use of funds is a transfer of wealth upwards from the working man to the rich investor/executive class: see subsidizing sports stadiums and Amazon corporate headquarters) but also an advocate for higher general progressive taxation targeting redistribution in legitimate public investments that benefit the public at large (see universal healthcare, subsidized/free higher education, greater public investment in infrastructure and basic/applied scientific research for accelerating the development of sustainable energy, etc.).
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
We really are heading towards real life cyberpunk, except it's stupid cyberpunk instead of cool.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
The 2 things are not mutually exclusive: you can be for criticizing/scrutinizing the legitimacy of use of tax dollars (especially when the use of funds is a transfer of wealth upwards from the working man to the rich investor/executive class: see subsidizing sports stadiums and Amazon corporate headquarters) but also an advocate for higher general progressive taxation targeting redistribution in legitimate public investments that benefit the public at large (see universal healthcare, subsidized/free higher education, greater public investment in infrastructure and basic/applied scientific research for accelerating the development of sustainable energy, etc.).

I think there's an interesting tension here where government is expected to outsource some responsibilities (like buying cars from auto manufacturers and waste disposal) but not others (city administration).

I see some difference between these company towns and the company towns of the past (namely, remote work makes it easier for a worker to vote with their feet) but this proposal feels anti-democratic.

At the same time, perfectly democratic (lower-case D) cities are having plenty of trouble without corporate administration so I'm unhappy with the status quo as well.

China resolves the fight between property owners and renters around building housing by simply having a totalitarian state making final calls on construction.

I think the legislators smell blood (cities aren't run particularly well in CA) and want to populate Nevada with high-income workers and don't really care if they're treated well.
 

RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,649
You know, I have been missing Mining Towns lately. Does the bill include a prevision for bringing back scrip?
 

I am a Bird

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,213
My dad almost went to work for a mill in an old mill town. My grandfather threatened him and made him get a job anywhere else.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
So the dystopia endgame ERA starts in Nevada...I was hoping this would be not in my lifetime. Hopefully this bill does not pass.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville

These books had these company zones, but in Wyoming instead.
Eventually there was an all out war between the US forces and the company forces.
 

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
As others have noted, this reminds me of Disney.

Did you know that Disney lobbied in Florida to create their own government to govern the area that is their theme park in Florida? The Reedy Creek Improvement District in Florida is a government created by the Florida legislature that is completely operated by Disney:

Reedy Creek Improvement District - Wikipedia

About (rcid.org)

From the "About" page of the Reedy Creek Improvement District's website:

In the mid-1960s, the Walt Disney World Company proposed building a recreation-oriented development on 25,000 acres of property in Central Florida. The property sat in a remote area of Orange and Osceola County, so secluded that the nearest power and water lines were 10-15 miles away. Neither Orange nor Osceola County had the services or the resources needed to bring the project to life.

In 1967 the Florida State legislature, working with Walt Disney World Company, created a special taxing district – called the Reedy Creek Improvement District – that would act with the same authority and responsibility as a county government.

Walt Disney World could then move ahead with its vision to turn 38.5 square miles of largely uninhabited pasture and swamp land, into a global destination resort that welcomes millions of visitors every year.

The new legislation said that landowners within the Reedy Creek Improvement District, primarily Walt Disney World, would be solely responsible for paying the cost of providing typical municipal services like power, water, roads, fire protection etc.
 

take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,253
iu


lol fuck that.
 

Syriel

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
11,088
Sounds like Disney's Celebration?

Celebration was deannnexed when the town was created. Disney has a minimal connection to it today.

Bay Lake, FL and Lake Buena Vista, FL are the two cities that make up Disney.

Golden Oak is a neighborhood in Lake Buena Vista, FL.

Yeah, I was just thinking that. Or in a broader sense, the Reedy Creek Improvement District.
Disney got some concessions but the county still has power over reedy creek

County power over RCID is limited. Disney pretty much controls both cities within.
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,837
What the actual fuck. That idea is fucking repulsive.

For some reason I expected the proposal to come from a Republican. Why am I not even surprised a certain kind of Democrat is where this is coming from? Kick this fucker and anyone else who even considers this out of the damn party. Enough.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,116
Toronto
This makes me glad the Sidewalk Labs project here in Toronto fell apart.

Google had the audacity to propose to the city that they collect municipal taxes in place of the city. The city responded with "lol, fuck no."
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,601
We literally did this already, and legislated it the fuck out of existence.

Why does no one learn from history?
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,675
Corporations practically run the country now. Might as well put that shit in wilting.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
Just our daily reminder that while Democrats are better then the GOP, the majority of them are still corporate backed stooges.
 

RiZ IV

Member
Oct 27, 2017
802
This sounds like what they have in places like Dubai. I forget what they call them, but they have their own financial laws and regulations.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,397
Interesting way to draw corporate interest/jobs to the state. I wonder if corporate towns will make a return.
 

Sayuz

Member
Apr 29, 2019
953
How long before Amazon has its own drone armies and representation in the senate?

latest
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
I think there's an interesting tension here where government is expected to outsource some responsibilities (like buying cars from auto manufacturers and waste disposal) but not others (city administration).

I see some difference between these company towns and the company towns of the past (namely, remote work makes it easier for a worker to vote with their feet) but this proposal feels anti-democratic.

At the same time, perfectly democratic (lower-case D) cities are having plenty of trouble without corporate administration so I'm unhappy with the status quo as well.

China resolves the fight between property owners and renters around building housing by simply having a totalitarian state making final calls on construction.

I think the legislators smell blood (cities aren't run particularly well in CA) and want to populate Nevada with high-income workers and don't really care if they're treated well.
CA's NIMBYism is still deference to money and existing corporate power, just from the powerful individuals who make up those entities rather than the corporate face itself. It's really two sides of the same coin.

The fix is to get money out of politics and punish those who try to wield power that way with prison terms rather than fines/settlements.

Also, we need to return housing to its initial commodity status rather than it being an investment vehicle. Housing being an investment vehicle has wreaked havoc on American society at large.
 
Last edited:

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,200
Man, I know we need tech jobs out here because hospitality isn't going to get us too much further, but shit, this is a horrible fucking idea.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
CA's NIMBYism is still deference to money and existing corporate power, just from the powerful individuals who make up those entities rather than the corporate face itself. It's really two sides of the same coin.

The fix is to get money out of politics and punish those who try to wield power that way with prison terms rather than fines/settlements.

Also, we need to return housing to its initial commodity status rather than it being an investment vehicle. Housing being an investment vehicle has wreaked havoc on American society at large.

I don't disagree this is a problem.

But even in an uncorrupt city, rich people form your tax base and can vote with their feet if they don't like how things are going.

This seems like a bigger problem than just campaign finance.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
I don't disagree this is a problem.

But even in an uncorrupt city, rich people form your tax base and can vote with their feet if they don't like how things are going.

This seems like a bigger problem than just campaign finance.
If campaign finance reform is something that is implemented nationwide and this sort of punishment is doled out nationwide for corruption, where are they going to go to? Leave the country? Go ahead. Want to renounce your citizenship or live outside the country but operate a business within it? Wealth tax of 75% of all personal wealth to do so. Get rid of the loopholes. Make them so they effectively don't have that vote.

Also, we should be equalizing public services across municipalities rather than pitting municipalities against each other in a death race to the bottom. We need to operate more like Finland where public funds are used to truly elevate all ships... cross-municipality. Property taxes should be utilized/allocated at the state level to make this happen.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
If campaign finance reform is something that is implemented nationwide and this sort of punishment is doled out nationwide for corruption, where are they going to go to? Leave the country? Go ahead. Want to renounce your citizenship or live outside the country but operate a business within it? Wealth tax of 75% of all personal wealth to do so. Get rid of the loopholes. Make them so they effectively don't have that vote.

They would go to a jurisdiction that taxes them less?

This is sort of why state taxes are so low in the first place. Raise them too high and you have trouble attracting and keeping businesses and building economic centers.

Doesn't actually have that much to to with campaign contributions.

If we think of campaign contributions as an intervention on the equilibrium tax rate, the equilibrium tax rate without intervention still has pressure downward because capital is mobile.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
They would go to a jurisdiction that taxes them less?

This is sort of why state taxes are so low in the first place. Raise them too high and you have trouble attracting and keeping businesses and building economic centers.

Doesn't actually have that much to to with campaign contributions.

If we think of campaign contributions as an intervention on the equilibrium tax rate, the equilibrium tax rate without intervention still has pressure downward because capital is mobile.
I already said to criminalize leaving without paying. Let's see how many leave when 75 percent of all of their wealth is seized. The only people who actually have the means to get up and leave would be the disproportionally wealthy to begin with, which is a tiny fraction of the population at large. You can temper this by having a wealth floor at which the 75 percent wealth tax starts to apply (e.g., it doesn't kick in until you have more than $500k in total immediate familial assets and only for the amount exceeding that $500k).

Restrict the mobility of capital. Make it so that it cannot flee/escape. Much of the modern concept of the mobility of capital is attributable to neoliberal philosophy. Neoliberalism is a blight on the world.

Neoliberalism's core tenet is essentially avoiding/escaping the dictates of the domestic sovereignty (e.g., environmental and labor laws). Destroy neoliberalism. Make it so there is no escape for this power/wealth.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 6056

Oct 25, 2017
7,240
As someone who grew up in wv and who has met generations that remember miners scripts, has a wife who grew up in the remains of a miners house, and who has met elderly folk whose childhoods involved The Battle of Blair mountain I can tell you that companies forming governments and ruling over their workers is BAD. Its why we have unions.

Seriously...this shits fucked up.