• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Oct 8, 2019
9,144
So recently I played Final Fantasy VII Remake, then I played Horizon Zero Dawn because they announced the sequel, and now I am playing Assassin's Creed: Odyssey because it was 25 bucks and I havent played Assassin's Creed, and Kassandra looked interesting.

After playing all three its become perfectly clear that no one really put an effort into making AC: Odyssey feel like anything other than a video game. In FF 7 Remake, the people of Midgard are constantly talking, in particular there's a memorable scene where after attacking a Shinra base, you see this old lady wanting to get her gun to shoot up what she thinks is an attack by Wutai. Final Fantasy VII Remake is full of these types of scenes.



With Horizon Zero Dawn, you have cities of various sizes, with Meridian the capital of the Carja Sundom being by far the largest. You can understand whats going on in each city because a ton of thought went into each one. Meanwhile pretty much most cities in AC: Odyssey feel the same, and generally just functions as hubs for sidequest. Instead of civilians talking you instead get just a murmur. No matter what happens, all you get is that murmur. In fact pretty much every thing in AC: Odyssey looks the same, the same camps, the same forts, these places are full of the same enemies, who all fight in similar patterns. You can just bum rush most of these forts because unless you're fighting 10 guys capturing a camp isn't a challenge.

In Horizon Zero Dawn, you clear out a bandit camp, and then the bandit camp becomes a small town. Your character is clearly effecting the world, meanwhile in AC: Odyssey, you clear out a bandit camp, then you wait an hour and the bandits are back, because bandit camps exist to give you lieutenants for your ship (got a Legendary pathfinder called Rhea).

In Final Fantasy VII Remake the sidequest while few, make sense where they are placed, and all of them feel like they make sense for Cloud to do, You get that sidequest to find a bunch of cats, it makes sense because while Cloud pretends his some hardcore badass, his actually really nice, and stuff like that highlights it.

In my entire playthrough of Horizon Zero Dawn, I really only questioned why Aloy was doing a sidequest once, where Aloy was killing machines so some Banuk shaman could get high. Every other sidequest in Horizon Zero Dawn makes sense, Aloy is curious about the world so any sidequest that involves finding certain artifacts matches up with that. She wants to know about the Old Ones so any quest that involves going into their ruins make sense. There's a fantastic sidequest in The Frozen Wild, where you go into a dam, learn about the workers who worked in that dam, and then the Oseram you meet mentions that the important thing is the delve itself. It fits perfectly with Aloy as.a character. She's kind so the vast majority of the sidequest are about Aloy helping people.

In comparison I just got a sidequest (one of those timed ones) where some guy wants me to murder his daughter's lover because they were a writer. I then killed the guy to fail the quest, and then I went to the next timed quest and this time some guy wants me to kill an irate customer. In the first twenty hours Kassandra has never come off as so greedy she would actually take these quest. I understand that time quest are all crap, but at least try to make the timed quest make sense, or dont have them be in the game. You shouldn't make characters some blank slate so you can make any quest you want because you need the game to be over a hundred hours long, and have this huge map full of sidequest.

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey is a pretty fun game, but at the end of the day unlike Final Fantasy VII Remake, or Horizon Zero Dawn, it has no ambition to be more than just a fun game, that you play for a hundred hours, and then pick up the next one in a year or two. I am really excited to play the next part of Final Fantasy VII, and Horizon Forbidden West, but I have no interest in playing AC: Valhalla until its like 75 percent off despite the fact that I love Vikings.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,276
I'm sorry but nothing in FF7 makes anyone but the Main Characters feel alive. The people are dressed way differently than the party and the sidequests are godawful while some of the sidequests in Odyssey offer some fun dialogue and
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,509
Earth, 21st Century
I liked AC Odyssey for the 15-20 hours that I played, more than other pre-Origins games after AC2. But you're not wrong.

Games have started to make great strides in portraying believable worlds and - here, I'll just say it - combating "ludonarrative dissonance," but AC is a gamey ass game. And unlike, say, DOOM, which wears that on its sleeve, AC reaches for something more but gives up before getting there. You are still doing things for "reasons" but those reasons can be insanely contrived just to match the gameplay loop.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
I wouldn't call Horizon a good example of a game where the player is affecting the world. You actually have more impact as a player in Odyssey than in Horizon, although I do have to admit it's still barebones. I hope that is one aspect Valhalla will improve upon.
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,921
I didn't play Odessy but I played Origins.
And I have the same.impresssion that you do of Odessy.

AC is has that whole virtual world thing.
But it's not even a good excuse for how gamey it is.

It's like a parody of a video game you'd see in other media.

Not sure if I'm articulating that right.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
Agree with everything you said OP. Loved FF7, but AC was Just a boring boring game.
 

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,432
Considering the discovery modes for both Origins and Odyssey are legit educational tools on Egyptian and Greek societies......that's a hell of a take OP. Especially compared to FVII and Horizon. I don't even know why Horizon is open world with how wasted it was.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,399
London
I'm a huge AC fan and I got 20 hours into Odyssey before getting bored senseless. It's the same camps and forts over and over and over again, with a ridiculously large map. The gameplay loop isn't deep or varied enough to support the enormous map.

Also, it felt utterly ridiculous being on, say, Athens' side when doing quests in Athens, but simultaneously murdering Athenian guards throughout the city just to loot some chests.

Having some of the discovery mode lore in the game, like the old games, would have gone a long way to keeping me interested in the world. I'm sure discovery mode is great but I really, really missed the history notes when playing the game.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,970
I'm sorry but nothing in FF7 makes anyone but the Main Characters feel alive.
Gotta disagree there. Mind you, the sensation kind of breaks later on in the game, when you're running past certain NPCs many times during a single chapter, and their ambient dialogue is the same every time... but FF7, especially early on, has tons of ambient NPC dialogue that add flavor to the world and which reflect what's going on in the world and in the story. Helps give the world a more lived-in feel than it might have otherwise had.
 

Meatfist

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,292
I'm making my way through Odyssey right now and like it quite a bit, but it's #1 problem is that the game is scared to death of providing anything less than a constant serotonin hit. CAMP CLEARED! NUMBERS GO UP! BOXES CHECKED! LIZARD BRAIN SATISFIED!

Give me less quests, less systems, less UI, less checkboxes, less handholding, and then polish what's left
 

elknoir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
111
Funny that's how I felt about Horizon. I could never get into it because to me it just felt like "another one of those" open world games. However I loved Odyssey because it is so shamelessly a video game. It sort of embraces it and is just like eff it. Have fun. It didn't pretend to be something that it was wasn't. It was a video game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I'm sorry but nothing in FF7 makes anyone but the Main Characters feel alive. The people are dressed way differently than the party and the sidequests are godawful while some of the sidequests in Odyssey offer some fun dialogue and
Agreed.

They were a bunch of dolls repeating lines everytime I passed by and never once moving around or doing stuff. Meanwhile, Odyssey had people go to sleep and walk around. Not perfect but still way way more "alive" than FF7R ever was.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
I actually just finished AC Odyssey. I bought it after FF7 remake, too. I thought it'd be cool to run around Greece since I had a vacation there years back and it'd be amazing to see all that... and it was!

I thought it was honestly a pretty good game overall but obviously you're comparing different dev priorities. A ton went into making Odyssey just fucking massive. The world makes FF7R feel microscopic. It'd be cool to see all of FF7 done like Odyssey's world, but that'd mean sacrifices. Overall I think Odyssey had some better side quests than FF7 but also some worse. FF7 has much more care done for its main characters and story though.
 

R dott B

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
Funny that's how I felt about Horizon. I could never get into it because to me it just felt like "another one of those" open world games. However I loved Odyssey because it is so shamelessly a video game. It sort of embraces it and is just like eff it. Have fun. It didn't pretend to be something that it was wasn't. It was a video game.
This is where I'm at.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,276
Agreed.

They were a bunch of dolls repeating lines everytime I passed by and never once moving around or doing stuff. Meanwhile, Odyssey had people go to sleep and walk around. Not perfect but still way way more "alive" than FF7R ever was.

yeah and I give it more leeway since it's a gigantic open world compared to FF7's more linear game.

and somehow FF7 still felt artificial no thanks in part due to the horrible voice direction all around
 

Necromorph

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,535
AC Odyssey and Origins is a checklist of what's trending on videogames, and mixed in the most boring way.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
Praise for the side quests in FF7R? Well I don't know friend but I get the thrust of your post.

I do think it's fair to point out that Odyssey dwarves both these games in terms of scope so you can lose the little things. The sheer magnificence of the world created deserves praise imo.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
Not sure those other games are bastions of making a world feel alive, as much as I love them? If anything Odyssey is more systemic than the other two, where NPCs are more static in behavior. And I like Horizon and FF7 more than AC, mind you, but that seems like a weird comparison. I would have thought you would have used an example like RDR2 or something lol.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
I wish more effort was put into making EVERYTHING in the game grounded in the world they are exploring. One of the biggest strengths of open world games is their potential for fascinating world building. The UI stands out like sore thumb immediately in Odyssey, it's overbearing and doesn't really fit with the historical theme.
 

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,723
I fucking hated Odyssey for, uh, 40 hrs, but after beating everything in Origins I went back to it. Once you get to level 30 things really pick up, but you gotta be down for mindless grinding and some terrible writing and voice acting.

But honestly no other game is both mindless and engaging like Odyssey. I like it
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,382
Odyssey has a more immersive world than both of the games you used as examples to tear it down. FFVII in particular is very static since the devs don't expect you to go back through areas all that much, because if you do you realize that the npcs aren't wandering around and instead are stuck in the exact same moment of time repeating the exact same lines of dialogue over and over, triggered by the player's proximity. These stations only change if you progress the story.

Horizon is more old school with it's approach to AI routines and such. Technically yes you can follow an npc carrying a box and he will set that down somewhere, but those npcs can't deviate from that path in anyway. Hell, Aloy is borderline invisible if you say, melee or aim your bow at npcs. Shattering the illusion.

AC:O, both of them, have really good behaviors dictated by whatever goal they have at the time, which can change based on various things like the passage of time. Most importantly, they have reactions to different stimulus that make for really believable reactions. You'll notice that there is a metric fuckton of varied animations too when it comes to npcs, so many that they have an entire mode partly dedicated to flexing the amount of effort and detail put into the world, one that happens to let the player go into the different stations. A lot of effort was put into the animation of various professions that existed at the time.
 
Last edited:

dodmaster

Member
Apr 27, 2019
2,548
This is what you get when you make a game factory churn out entertainment.

After seeing the size of the map, I lost the will to play Odyssey any further. Now I'm playing through the Witcher 3 and while there is sidequest fatigue beginning to set in, the lore and the characters are excellently put together.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,810
For all the effort Horizon seemingly tried to put into making believable towns, it completely failed to actually make me care about it. About five hours into it, I just wanted the game to be over.

Odyssey, on the other hand, gave me other things to care about. I couldn't give two flying fucks about the towns, and the game never felt lesser for it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,582
It's funny that all the games you mentioned are all pretty 'video game' y. Odyssey is pretty mmoish which is fine? Nothing wrong with a game being a video game as long as its fun which you mentioned.

been a while since I touched odyssey, but I do recall the meatier side quests were pretty ok, but yeah I do agree sometimes games can be a bit much. I'm all about boutique experiences in my open world games. Always loved how witcher 3 was good about that in the map. You can easily distinct which are the meaty story side quests vs just some filler stuff.
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
Manchester UK
Just wait til do hunt the cult quests and you work for the obvious cult member who "tricks" the player to work for them and player character gives zero shits about. For a game dying be a RPG you have zero choice in shaping the character personality wise they programmed to do any quest just so player can't miss anything
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Love Horizon but it's definitely not a good example of an engaging open-world.

Towns are mostly cool to look at because of the overall visual design, but outside of that, they feel really lifeless, and exploration isn't the game's forte.

Hopefully that gets adressed in Forbidden West
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
Origins was the perfect amount of AC for me, but Odyssey was just too much map.

I also hated the level cap increase updates over time because of the way the world levels up with you and you have to level up your gear as you level to get it all to keep up. Just a resource and timesink that pissed me off because I had a few gear sets that I liked and they became obsolete every 5-6 levels unless I put resources into them all over again.
 

Deleted member 58846

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 28, 2019
5,086
While I like FF7R more than AC: Odyssey, using it (or, even more hilariously, Horizon) as an example of a "more alive world" than ancient Greece is just absurd. FF7R isn't even a world, it's a series of repeating corridors where the same NPC chatter plays on a loop. Horizon has a totally static world, look but don't touch. Odyssey has a lot of flaws, but its systemic nature leads to a far more reactive world than anything either of the other two games ever muster.
 

Potato Mage

Alt-Account
Banned
Apr 28, 2020
516
Personally I think Odyssey is the best game out of the three by a mile. I've tried to get through HZD 3 times and given up half way out of boredom every time. The A.I is terrible and the open world is extremely basic.

Ff7 was enjoyable but a lot of the game felt dated.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,328
São Paulo - Brazil
Your experience was very similar to how I saw Origins OP, although I cannot judge the other two games.

Possibly because of the setting I couldn't help to comapre it with the pyramids: it has a lot of stone blocks, cutting them and carrying them takes a lot of effort, putting them in place even more so and the end result is a very impressive building to look at. Yet in terms of structure, it's very simple and basic, a man-made mountain really.

And this is how Origin felt. Impressive to look at, but structurelly empty. And this is reflected in the world. For me, it's not so much thatit felt dead, but it felt unconnected and empty of meaning. Just a place to get quests or kill a bunch of people, as you described. A lot of stones blocks put together for sure, but not in any particular creative arrangement.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Can't argue about personal taste, but I would argue that saying FF7R (which I loved to play, don't get me wrong!) has a world that is more alive than ACO is factually wrong.

Midgar is essentially a stunning looking film set that feels very alive it you don't look too closely, but once you pay attention the illusion becomes pretty obvious. The same NPCs will mostly stay in the same spots all day long, and if you stay next to them for a few minutes you will quickly realize that their conversations are very limited and quickly repeat the same few lines.

ACO on the other is a very systemic game, and you will see a lot of things like animals attacking or Athenian and Spartan soldiers fighting by themselves when wandering the world. It is also a much more realistic world, where you can go into most houses and see people's kitchens or beds (where the go sleep at night), giving the feeling of being an actual world people live in.

I remember sneaking up on an outpost I wanted to attacked on AC Origins, and as I came over the hill I saw everything was on fire because a hippo was attacking the place, which had knocked over some oil I to the fire.

So yeah, it is pretty baffling to me how anyone could argue that FFVIIR feels more alive as a world, tbh...
 

Labyrinthe

Member
Mar 12, 2018
952
While the AC games are huge, it's still easy to blast your way from point A to B.

I also used the horses like tanks in those games. Fun gameplay compared to many AAA open world games.

The cities in Origins were really well done and had some dynamic events happening sometimes too from what i remember.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,119
Odyssey is a video game ass video game with very little in the way of immersion or realistic world design but the counter examples given by the OP are not much better at all.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
The Witcher 3 and RDR II are the only two games this generation which make it feel like you're existing in a real World due to the World design, the characters, the story, cut scene quality and the quality of the side quests.

Neither Horizon or AC Odyssey did that for me, they're both 7/10 games to me. FFVII is laughable at times and sometimes even feels PS3ish in terms of some of the quests, NPC's and textures and I waited almost 20 years for it to arrive.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,254
New York City
So I'll like it? Man, it would be great to play a video game again instead of a cinematic experience. It's AC tho.. bleh.