How much of Origins did you play? Because there are so many memorable (and well designed) locations in that game
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Assassin's Creed Fatigue - Old Formula vs. New Formula
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
Okay it's not just me. I definitely almost hit "new one" then I realized what it was asking.
What I meant is, every time I try to play Origins/Odyssey, I feel like I'm playing a Single-player MMORPG. From the weight of the combat, the overwhelming size of things, the structure of missions, to the floaty and inconsistencies of certain actions and maneuvers. Even visually, the games just feel like a really nice MMORPG, without any of the benefits of an MMORPG.
No longer this tight focused action stealth title.
New by far, never cared for the series until Origins and now have gone through much of the backlog (Black Flag and Origins remain my favorites)
Frankly I also wish they just started a new IP -- or at least a spin off -- with Origins, to spare all the complaining from the fans of the original formula.
Frankly I also wish they just started a new IP -- or at least a spin off -- with Origins, to spare all the complaining from the fans of the original formula.
Odyssey is easily the best in the series and one of the best games of current gen.
More please!
More please!
Pretty much none of the games ever appealed to me. Assassin's Creed biggest strength was always doing parkour on tall ass, ornate buildings, but the core mechanics that define the moment to moment gameplay(the stealth/combat) are all booboo.
I have no idea how those same mechanics translated so well to multiplayer.
I have no idea how those same mechanics translated so well to multiplayer.
OP
OP
Honestly what initiative? Especially in Odyssey. You know what you will find in wthe world, tombs are more-less same, gear you gear it worthless, camps are literally one of 6 types...
Compare that to RDR2 where you literally don't know what you will find.
Oops, I thought the poll was for which one I prefer old vs. new. 🤦‍♂️
But I do prefer the new formula all around. I'm not necessarily a fan of the size/grind in Origins/Odyssey but all the mechanics are much better which makes them better for me across the board. Fatigue isn't really something I think about, I care about whether it's fun and whenever it stops being fun I play something else.
But I do prefer the new formula all around. I'm not necessarily a fan of the size/grind in Origins/Odyssey but all the mechanics are much better which makes them better for me across the board. Fatigue isn't really something I think about, I care about whether it's fun and whenever it stops being fun I play something else.
Both formulas are good but I'd wish they kept the old formula as a spin off. Kinda like what Capcom did with RE.
New formula is just too damn repetitive/long for my liking. Of course that's a specific game design in other to force players to buy into MTX.
New formula is just too damn repetitive/long for my liking. Of course that's a specific game design in other to force players to buy into MTX.
As someone who liked Origins, but did not like Odyssey, I would have to say it's not even about fatigue.
They just need to improve on it significantly! They need to understand it is not all about quantity, but also quality. I would much prefer unique meaningful content instead of copy-paste missions/areas to artificially extend game-length. (Oh and the combat sucks)
Personally I prefer the old formula. I think Unity was a step in the right direction, and again it just needed meaningful content instead of a collect-a-ton map.
But I'll say this: Origins is like AC 1 in ways. A lot of promise, but needs some tweaking. Unfortunately we never got the AC 2 equivalent. It does not seem Valhalla will be that either.
They should take notes from Deus Ex/ Witcher 3/ RDR 2
They just need to improve on it significantly! They need to understand it is not all about quantity, but also quality. I would much prefer unique meaningful content instead of copy-paste missions/areas to artificially extend game-length. (Oh and the combat sucks)
Personally I prefer the old formula. I think Unity was a step in the right direction, and again it just needed meaningful content instead of a collect-a-ton map.
But I'll say this: Origins is like AC 1 in ways. A lot of promise, but needs some tweaking. Unfortunately we never got the AC 2 equivalent. It does not seem Valhalla will be that either.
They should take notes from Deus Ex/ Witcher 3/ RDR 2
Feels like we get this thread every 2 of 3 months. My answer has and will be the new formula. Wasn't a fan of the series before the new formula.
While I agree with your last sentence, I think a lot of what you describe is pretty common to Western RPGs in general, not MMOs in particular.
I don't see any incentives to explore the world in diferent ways. Movement and traversal options are "ride mount" and "run slowly" through huge empty land. And even in smaller, populated areas, your freerunning is intrinsically pared down and shallow, with little manual control over where you can go and what you can do. It's functional but there's nothing to it.
As for incentives to explore the world in different ways, I am entirely confused at what you mean. The only incentives are "?"s scattered through the world that are copy pasted forts and camps with a checklist objectives. All of which are discovered while riding your horse for minutes on end. There's literally no different way to explore. Combat, I'll give that there's regularly more things you're able to do at any one point if all you did in the old games was counter.
Senu and Ikaros are just Eagle Vision with wider range, more steps and no risk. Yeah sure you've got a whole bunch of more information, but it literally doesn't affect the way you clear forts. Because the encounter design is either so flat (in Origns) or so predictable (in Odyssey) that there's nothing to do.
I get what you mean OP. I watched the leaked footage of Valhalla, and man I just felt tired of it. It just looked too similar to Odyssey which I got burnt out from playing.
I don't really prefer one formula to the other, and I definitely felt tired from the old formula after 4. My problem with the new one is I just don't think these type of open world games with their infinite side quests to do are for me. I get that I can ignore them and focus only on the main story, and I'm not trying to insult those that do like it, I just don't think the main narrative was good enough to keep me invested, and the gameplay isn't fun enough to continue to do for dozens of hours.
I don't really prefer one formula to the other, and I definitely felt tired from the old formula after 4. My problem with the new one is I just don't think these type of open world games with their infinite side quests to do are for me. I get that I can ignore them and focus only on the main story, and I'm not trying to insult those that do like it, I just don't think the main narrative was good enough to keep me invested, and the gameplay isn't fun enough to continue to do for dozens of hours.
The new formula is good but too close to The Witcher 3 imo, and it loses a lot of what made the old AC games feel unique. I've been replaying AC2 on PC recently, and I realized how much I miss interacting with all of the little things in the world like avoiding guards in crowds or throwing down money to distract singers. The "NPCs are gameplay obstacles/tools" aspect of the older games is something that's missing from the newer games, and it makes them feel less distinct because of it.
I think I managed to finish 3 of the old games and I've yet to get even halfway through one of the new ones before bouncing off.
I liked both formulas.
I do have issues though. Both of them.
The old formula was really good but after AC2 they started expanding on the game and making it have more "busy work". This style of gameplay doesn't really mesh with the original design.
In the new one I feel it is really fun and interesting to explore. The issue I have with it is that they put too much stuff into the game that it feels really uneven at times and some quests feel really samey. What they need to do is look at the way Elder Scrols and Fallout designed their quests. More quality than quantity. Instead of long length, make the story short and sweet like the past games and go all in with the crazy quests in the side content department.
The busy work stuff can stay but the golden quests need to be more varied in the objectives department.
Then there is the gameplay which I feel is good in the new formula but it is very quickly getting boring. The new game having very similiar combat just burns me out before I even played it.
I guess to put it simply, they should make it more like Elder Scrolls and find a way to make the main story shorter but better pacing.
I do have issues though. Both of them.
The old formula was really good but after AC2 they started expanding on the game and making it have more "busy work". This style of gameplay doesn't really mesh with the original design.
In the new one I feel it is really fun and interesting to explore. The issue I have with it is that they put too much stuff into the game that it feels really uneven at times and some quests feel really samey. What they need to do is look at the way Elder Scrols and Fallout designed their quests. More quality than quantity. Instead of long length, make the story short and sweet like the past games and go all in with the crazy quests in the side content department.
The busy work stuff can stay but the golden quests need to be more varied in the objectives department.
Then there is the gameplay which I feel is good in the new formula but it is very quickly getting boring. The new game having very similiar combat just burns me out before I even played it.
I guess to put it simply, they should make it more like Elder Scrolls and find a way to make the main story shorter but better pacing.
In Odyssey, the game does something really smart - it gives you numerous long term goals that each push you in a different direction through the map:
- Main gold quests
- Hunting cultists
- Hunting legendary beasts
- Hunting mythological beasts
- Hunting/avoiding mercenaries
- Hunting for each of the legendary gear sets
- Hunting and gathering resources to improve your gear
- Bounties
- Taking down legendary ships to get new boat cosmetics
- Going after sync points
- Going after landmarks that look interesting
- Completing all quests in a given area
Now, I can understand how you wouldn't realize that all of these gears are turning under the hood to give you a satisfying experience of exploring the world, because the game doesn't necessarily make it explicitly clear that all of these are happening and placed where they are in the world for a reason, but they're nonetheless very much a thing and very much why this Odyssey in particular is so amazingly well designed. Origins was good too, but didn't have quite the same amount of different incentives pulling the player through the world in a large variety of possible ways.
I enjoyed Origins but 3/4 through Odyssey I was already tired of this new formula (and I used an XP booster for Odyssey). Hopefully it goes back to a more linear type city sized game instead of continent sized game for their first next gen only release.
It would be staggering how detailed they could make a single city if they focused on only that for a next gen only game. They could get the crowd sizes back to Unity with much more physics based environments.
There is a decent chance of this happening imo due to the way Ubisoft have pivoted away from GaaS so quickly and customers in general eating up shorter more linear based AAA games again now the fad of huge open Worlds seems to have faded.
It would be staggering how detailed they could make a single city if they focused on only that for a next gen only game. They could get the crowd sizes back to Unity with much more physics based environments.
There is a decent chance of this happening imo due to the way Ubisoft have pivoted away from GaaS so quickly and customers in general eating up shorter more linear based AAA games again now the fad of huge open Worlds seems to have faded.
I lost interest in the franchise after Rogue and especially by the time Origins and Odyssey came out. The old games were fun 20 hour experiences with fun historical set pieces and conspiracies with gameplay that didn't overstay its welcome. Now they are these big bloated open world rpgs that require ALL of your time and attention. I just don't have any interest in spending that much time in an Assasins Creed game of all things.
I like both kinds. Played all pre-Unity games this year and Odyssey when it came out. I'd say as much as I love the old games, I'd prefer them to keep with the Origins and Odyssey style.
Odyssey felt so much like an... Odyssey, I guess. It was a really great game for that. Felt like I'd properly been through a slice of Kassandra's story and life.
Odyssey felt so much like an... Odyssey, I guess. It was a really great game for that. Felt like I'd properly been through a slice of Kassandra's story and life.
I think the old formula was way more repetitive and most of the old games based around a gimmick or two way more than they should have. The new design isn't perfect, but I've played hundreds of hours between Origins and Odyssey and am still up for more (with new stuff in Valhalla, please! No rehashes of the old or new).
Odyssey has plenty of assassinations. You should give it a try. It's by far the best AC to date.
I would love a big open world with a city close to a 1 to 1 scale of the buildings like in Unity and Syndicate. But Hitman formula. With smaller well designed sandboxes inside the city where you can assassinate targets in a variety of interesting ways. You know....ASSASSIN'S Creed.
Russia during the October Revolution, choosing to play as Nikolai Orelov or another female protag. I want that done bigger than it was in AC: Chronicles.
Russia during the October Revolution, choosing to play as Nikolai Orelov or another female protag. I want that done bigger than it was in AC: Chronicles.
The new formula, it's basically the same game with a different skin, at least on the old ones you had some big improvements (gadgets, hideout, brotherhoods, boat).
Also even though I do think the new games are competent actio rpgs, they do not feel like AC games.
Also even though I do think the new games are competent actio rpgs, they do not feel like AC games.
I've played through all last gen AC games around the time of release and only noticed how I got sick of it when I started playing Unity.
I went back to the franchise with Odyssey, played it for some 200 hours and I'm definitely done with this particular formula. It was good busy work to tune out to after work or while being sick and definitely a great podcast game but I thought it sucked as an Assassin's Creed game and did not enjoy it all that much as part of the franchise. I think I'm done with the franchise for good and I don't see how Ubisoft could turn it around for me personally.
I went back to the franchise with Odyssey, played it for some 200 hours and I'm definitely done with this particular formula. It was good busy work to tune out to after work or while being sick and definitely a great podcast game but I thought it sucked as an Assassin's Creed game and did not enjoy it all that much as part of the franchise. I think I'm done with the franchise for good and I don't see how Ubisoft could turn it around for me personally.
Prefer the new format since the gameplay is so much better now in terms of stealth and being able to climb everything. I think some are mixed on the combat but Odyssey was an improvement on Origins so hopefully they can keep iterating with Valhalla. I think someone mentioned social stealth and that's probably something they can re-implement next-gen like the (disappearing/pop-in plagued heh) large crowds they attempted with unity.
Both have kind of stunk at telling a good story though for awhile now though and I think they've kind of gave up on that and pivoted to building out the world itself for you to explore as opposed to an engaging critical path.
Both have kind of stunk at telling a good story though for awhile now though and I think they've kind of gave up on that and pivoted to building out the world itself for you to explore as opposed to an engaging critical path.
I'm tired of both really. I was so tired of the first game I never finished it.
Didn't finish AC2 either, but somehow with Brotherhood I was able to beat it - mostly because of that pigeon side quest where you send your assassins on missions.
Then I didn't bother with any of the other games until Origin and Odyssey. I thought they were decent games and managed to finish both. However, Odyssey has killed my interest again after going through all the bloat. I couldn't beat Fate of Atlantis DLC, I'm going to watch the last two episodes on YouTube. I'm literally doing the same crap for over a hundred 100 hours!!
If Valhalla is the same shit I'm going to wait for a sale after a year or so and get the complete edition.
Didn't finish AC2 either, but somehow with Brotherhood I was able to beat it - mostly because of that pigeon side quest where you send your assassins on missions.
Then I didn't bother with any of the other games until Origin and Odyssey. I thought they were decent games and managed to finish both. However, Odyssey has killed my interest again after going through all the bloat. I couldn't beat Fate of Atlantis DLC, I'm going to watch the last two episodes on YouTube. I'm literally doing the same crap for over a hundred 100 hours!!
If Valhalla is the same shit I'm going to wait for a sale after a year or so and get the complete edition.
Neither, honestly. Loved AC2 and enjoyed Black Flag, Unity and Syndicate for various reasons. And I thought these new formula ones would be right up my alley, but they're just too bloated for their own good. Got about 30 hours into Odyssey and realized I didn't care about anything I was doing. I was just doing it for the sake of doing it and to make my numbers bigger. That's not fun for me anymore.
But gun to my head? Old formula, if only because I had the most fun with AC2.
But gun to my head? Old formula, if only because I had the most fun with AC2.
Odyssey could have been much much better game if they went for quality over quantity. Rather having hundreds of generic mercenary with same move set, have few fleshed out ones with detailed story and unique move set. The cultist stuff started off fun but kinda got boring because most of the people you assassinate are generic and have not unique combat scenario. Same with sidequests, while their are few good ones (Socrates questline), most of them are just garbage. The rpg stuff like branching paths. gears level and romance made the game worse because they were all surface level and added nothing to the game. I really hoped they would improve on these factors in Valhalla but looking at the leak does not seem like it.
Just reboot Ac2 with an interesting modern day story, bring back Ezio and parkour from Unity. You're welcome.
I got tired of the old formula by the 3rd game. I got tired of the new formula by the 10th hour. Origins and Odyssey are incredibly bloated.
I'm all for old formula to be honest, I think Ubisoft had a very solid foundation with Unity, they should have built on that, from the parkour to the Black Box assassination, it was easily the best modern AC title.
While I enjoyed AC:Origins, I couldn't bring myself to even care about Odyssey, especially with how bloated they are, there are alot of unnecessary filler stuff in there, and truth be told the new formula is as far removed from AC pillars as possible.
While I enjoyed AC:Origins, I couldn't bring myself to even care about Odyssey, especially with how bloated they are, there are alot of unnecessary filler stuff in there, and truth be told the new formula is as far removed from AC pillars as possible.
Origins was great, but something about Odyssey just doesnt click with me. The sidequests in origins where great, in odyssey they where kinda crap. Also odyssey is waaaaaaay to long for its own good. Make no mistake i finished origins in 50 hours, but after 25 hours and i quit. Especially when i heard people finished it in 100 hours.
I like the new formula. But I do think it have too much land to explore and not that much verticality like the older games.
I'd like something in between, like a huge city and a smaller map overall. At least half of Odyssey's map.
They also should give the option to the player to play like the older games too: kiling with a single blow if it's a stealth kill. They did say that they would allow this with Valhalla, but I'll only believe when I see it.
I'd like something in between, like a huge city and a smaller map overall. At least half of Odyssey's map.
They also should give the option to the player to play like the older games too: kiling with a single blow if it's a stealth kill. They did say that they would allow this with Valhalla, but I'll only believe when I see it.
Reading a lot of replies I sincerely don't get why the game being long and having a lot to do is a bad thing. You are paying $60 or less for an experience that will get you at least 100 hours.
If you don't like it I understand.
But if you do, why is it a problem that it can last more, why the rush to beat it? I sincerely don't think that the game would be that much different if it was shortened to 30-50 hours, it would just have less.
The games can get repetitive but if you enjoy those repetitive actions missions, the boat, etc then yeah drop it and come back when you have nothing else to play. It is a good reason to drop it and come back.
The story is also not complicated, and not too focused, so playing the story on and off for months makes 0 difference at all.
In the end if you don't like the gameplay then yeah drop it. It won't change or get better, but the game is great and it having a lot to do is not a bad thing. Like why the rush to beat it when it can last you longer. I see it as a positive.
If you don't like it I understand.
But if you do, why is it a problem that it can last more, why the rush to beat it? I sincerely don't think that the game would be that much different if it was shortened to 30-50 hours, it would just have less.
To me not fun after x hours vs bad/boring is not the same.
The games can get repetitive but if you enjoy those repetitive actions missions, the boat, etc then yeah drop it and come back when you have nothing else to play. It is a good reason to drop it and come back.
The story is also not complicated, and not too focused, so playing the story on and off for months makes 0 difference at all.
In the end if you don't like the gameplay then yeah drop it. It won't change or get better, but the game is great and it having a lot to do is not a bad thing. Like why the rush to beat it when it can last you longer. I see it as a positive.
damn, I sure did.
Is this a practiced science around here, to over-complicate polls?
Just asking: What do you like better
That's too simple eh?
I love how everyone emphasizes the "ASSASSINS" as how the game should be as if you can't assassinate people in these games anymore. Did any of these people even play Origin or Odyssey?
3,564
That's right. That's how many people I assassinated in my Assassin's Creed: Odyssey playthrough. Two-thirds of my kills were single-shot, stealth mode, backstab assassinations. That's amazing for a game that doesn't let you assassinate people anymore...lol.
Single blow stealth kills are already a thing in the new games.
3,564
That's right. That's how many people I assassinated in my Assassin's Creed: Odyssey playthrough. Two-thirds of my kills were single-shot, stealth mode, backstab assassinations. That's amazing for a game that doesn't let you assassinate people anymore...lol.
Single blow stealth kills are already a thing in the new games.
I don't care which formula they use as long as they get rid of the ridiculous amount of "side quests". And I put that in quotes because side quests should be just that...optional quests. Not quests you have to do to beat the game.
I got burned out after Brotherhood for that reason and haven't played a new one since. Hearing about all of the games being bloated as fuck doesn't really lure me over either.