Best doors are no doors.
So by definition we are that stupid as gamers ?Why wouldn't we be?
If something leaks that is pre-alpha, then the whole internet thinks that represents the final product.
I get people wanting more transparency from game development, but y'all are too quick to judge EVERYTHING lol.
We are rapidly approaching (or already at) a point where any major game is simply enormous. I don't think the average consumer realizes how exponential the scope of games has become. Especially in the multiplayer space. Creating a game considered AAA in modern standards requires orders of magnitude greater resources than it did in, say, the 2000s.We've recently seen games like Halo Infinite and Battlefield 2042, to name a few, crash and burn after going through a very tough development cycle.
What does it actually take as a team to convince those in power to delay a major release so a game can avoid these types of issues?
It just seems this continues to happen over and over again which ultimately hurts the staff that worked so hard on making these games a reality.
We are rapidly approaching (or already at) a point where any major game is simply enormous. I don't think the average consumer realizes how exponential the scope of games has become. Especially in the multiplayer space. Creating a game considered AAA in modern standards requires orders of magnitude greater resources than it did in, say, the 2000s.
So, when you ask why higher ups may deny a game being delayed beyond a certain point: I expect in many cases it's because that game has probably already received several delays, from a schedule that is already longer than any 2010 game would scope for, requiring 5x the money for every month because you need 5x the man power to achieve that modern quality standard.
At some point a game just has to come out. Only a dev like Rockstar can sit on an intensely expensive project for 5+ years and find the financial feasibility in it.
And mind you, there are still plenty of things specific to a project that can go particularly bad too, so factors like that could always play in. But yeah, games are super big right now, and I think sometimes we don't talk about how frightening that sort of is across the industry.
Have there been times where you've seen a story altered because of what would be required to program or create? As in simplified or removed, as an aspiring writer i do often wonder how much creative control a writer can have within the gaming industry among others.
Couple of questions about one subject:
Is there always a Game Design Document (GDD) when developing a game?
How detailed and big are these documents?
Does everyone in the team have access to it?
How much does a team rely on such a document?
I'm sure some parts of (even the core) design will change during development. How is this communicated normally to the team? Will the Game Designer alter the GDD and then point to these changes or does he present it in a big meeting?
Automatic doors that just have an animation but no collision!
Not saying it applies to you, but how does it feel when a developer has to release a game in a state when it clearly needs more work to be fit for release?
Like not in terms of the quality of the game itself, but when you get games that are, or are bordering on being, absolutely unacceptable in terms of performance.
Devs know flaws of their games better than any player that is going to touch it.
The question is never "do devs not see it", but "how early the problems are caught and what you can do about it within the time or budget or team capacity".
Here is the thing: no game is good INSTANTLY. You can agree on some direction with a prototype that is quite good, but a prototype is still a prototype. Games act and look like shit when they start developing. It is normal. Systems and things are creates out of nothing, lol.
So the thing is, unless the direction itself has been red flagged, at the beginning problems are not an indicator of a bad product - they are just a natural part of development.
And then things start getting finished.... and that's when you start noticing problems. But at that point things are already in motion, you can't just easily change stuff, and besides the skill of a dev or a team there are so many other things that influence the final quality of a game.
But to answer your question, devs do know when they're releasing a bad game and it is a shitty feeling.
Makes sense, so how are games budgeted/staffed generally? I'm guessing it is on a per project per year basis with a ramp up, IE year 1 conceptual phase, year 2 full work phase and you gain 20-50 new employees, year 3 should be release with 3+ months of post launch support and DLC wrap up?
Sometimes it's a requirement, either regulatory or contractual.Why does no game simply boot at the title screen? I don't want to look at crappy logos for a minute until I can load my save. Like, I get it the first time you boot, but after the game detects a save file, it should just skip to the title screen.
Sometimes it's a requirement, either regulatory or contractual.
Let's take a racing game for example, here are some considerations:
There's probably a few other things as well but it's mostly the above. Heck it might even be hiding a loading segment in the backend too, especially if the game's frontend uses a 3D environment.
- Some of the car manufacturers you work with require an OLP (officially licensed product) badge to be shown on startup.
- It's a driving game and you need to warn people that the driving in-game is for entertainment purposes only, and shouldn't be replicated in real life because it's dangerous.
- It's a fast-moving game, higher chance of epilepsy issues so you need a flashing images warning.
- You might need some legal boilerplate text on startup depending on what game engine you're using.
For someone with 0 programming skills, but would like to fiddle around with some game developing engines, what do you as a professional recommend?
Why is ultrawide not supported by many games on pc? Are there any reasons other than ultrawide having a low adoption rate and it taking time to customize the UI?
I have two questions - one very specific and one more related to process.
The specific question is about clipping. What is typically done to resolve clipping issues? Is it a matter of assigning a "hard" border on a polygon to make sure other objects collide properly? It feels like it happens a lot on custom models like gear that changes while a character is wearing it. Where is the line typically between "this is fixable" and "this isn't with fixing"?
The other question is - in your experience how often is peer review done?
Why does no game simply boot at the title screen? I don't want to look at crappy logos for a minute until I can load my save. Like, I get it the first time you boot, but after the game detects a save file, it should just skip to the title screen.
What does it actually take as a team to convince those in power to delay a major release so a game can avoid these types of issues?
Wow, I greatly appreciate this thread.
One thing I really wanted to know. I've seen a lot of people say next-gen exclusives will be more costly and time-consuming to make sure to the increase in required asset quality. However, I've also seen and heard a lot about how assets for last-gen games were already created at very high levels of detail and then brought down with decision and retopology - not just for PC ports and such but things like these Zbrush models for Nathan Drake and Kratos:
So if that's the case, I would've assumed the work going into these assets wouldn't actually increase, and the only change would be not needing to cut their detail as much. Can you comment on this in any way?
Hi!
How accurate is a video game color work? And how often do you feel that is misrepresented on certain screens, videos, screenshots etc. is that an issue at all in game development? Is there a consideration on how people will look at your game? Do find yourself looking at stuff you worked on and finding that something looks off?
I also have kinda of the same questions on the sound department, specially the mix.
Being a film colorist myself sometimes I feel like dying when I watch certain theatrical releases of work I did on certain theatres/projectors/broadcast or even home releases.
Another thing I would like to kindly ask you, is why do games come with so different sound levels between them? Like if I want to have a session on game A I know that I will need to rank up the overall volume of my speakers quite a bit…but then if I jump to game B than I will need to bring it down considerably….shouldn't there be an default sound mix value to avoid this issue?
Sorry for so many questions!
Thank you for your time!
Thanks.
Are devs upset when their game details leak before the big reveal?
The money goes towards paying people. If you have a team of 50 for three years, those salaries add up. Oh, and they all need multiple software licenses that last for those three years. And they all need computers, a desk to sit at, the a building to put the desks in. And you have to pay your taxes.Where does most of the time and money go into making a game. What has changed and would those resources be better off used elsewhere in your opinion?
The money goes towards paying people. If you have a team of 50 for three years, those salaries add up. Oh, and they all need multiple software licenses that last for those three years. And they all need computers, a desk to sit at, the a building to put the desks in. And you have to pay your taxes.
Yeah, it sucks!Thanks.
Are devs upset when their game details leak before the big reveal?
AAA Dev here. I'll give a simplified example.I guess what I was trying to say is why do games take so long compared to what they used too. Are they spending way more time on something specific like artists or people adding features to the engines, etc?
Even iterative games from the same studio seem to take longer.
Zbrush assets are still an order of magnitude past what any computer could use as an asset without exploding. I think the zbrush sculpt engine technically doesn't even use polygons so they can get as much definition in as possible. So the assets still have to be downsampled etc, the benchmarks are just different. In essence, the total time to make an asset doesn't change.
Oh no they will cost more for sure. You still need to hire artists capable of making those assets, at which point you're competing with every other studio making a AAA game on salary. Equally, making a kratos head that can be knocked down to decent quality means the head doesn't need to be AS good in zbrush, but making a head that can be knocked down to excellent quality means the zbrush asset has to be better, if you follow me. Ideally yes you would just make the Best Kratos Head Ever and use that one asset for the rest of time, but that's not entirely realistic. That one artist has to be better than they used to be, and they will probably spend as much time on kratos's head as they used to spend on all of kratos, so overall making kratos needs more time, and time costs money.This is pretty much what I thought, thank you. So would that mean that on average, the idea that next-gen games will cost more to make is probably wrong? Unless they get larger in terms of general scope, of course. Then it wouldn't be just about asset quality, but amount as well.
I'm on the communication side.
It does upset you and frustrate you. Especially if it messes up your marketing, social media and or asset creation process. Think of it this way, all these leakers on social media say they side with developers all the time against the big corporations etc. Who do you think has to work overtime when the processes I've mentioned above gets disrupted? Yeah, we do.
How labyrinthine is the process to fix small errors, like typos, or say, music loop point errors?
Another thing I would like to kindly ask you, is why do games come with so different sound levels between them? Like if I want to have a session on game A I know that I will need to rank up the overall volume of my speakers quite a bit…but then if I jump to game B than I will need to bring it down considerably….shouldn't there be an default sound mix value to avoid this issue?
Sorry for so many questions!
Thank you for your time!
Roughly speaking, there are 3 main ones, which each of these split into multiple smaller ones that differ per company / studio / organisation. The time spent in each is very different for each game and studio.
1. Preproduction
- The phase during which you define what you want to build and how to build it.
- Lots of tech exploration, direction exploration, feature prototyping, workflow improvements and similar.
2. Production
- The phase during which you build your game.
* Alpha / feature complete - hitting this milestone usually means all of the features you would like to ship now exist in software - before hitting this you mostly prioritise tasks.
* Beta / content complete - hitting this milestone means you have created the content you would like to create (different from features) - before hitting this you balance between tasks and bugs.
* Final / content lock - hitting this milestone means you have something that can be shipped, and only certification work remains - before hitting this milestone you exclusively focus on bugs.
3. Live service / post launch / sustain (different names for the same thing)
- The phase during which you support your game after it has released.
I can answer these two:
I can answer about music loop point error. This often happens within several situations:
- The musician is not a video game composer, just a regular composer, and does not have good knowledge on how to do good loop points (it's not as easy as it sounds)
- The programmer doing this is not a sound/musician guy so it does not care, does not notice it.
- Both of the above and people using mp3 for some reason, as those can't loop properly.
You can have two persons that can fix this, a video game composer with extensive knowledge on how to loop a track and how to fix it, or an audio programmer, which is more and more prominent on big studios nowadays, who knows sound and can code or even modify the track audio wave so it loops correctly.
At the end the fix is not hard to implement if you have the right people on board.
Typically there is a standard to output all your sounds to try to fix this. Problem in video games is that you can't just do like in movies, pass the game thru a big audio studio and mix all of it. Different gameplays produces different sounds and music, so you have to adjust lots of parameters to try to level all sound (max sounds at any moment, max voices, mixer limiters, sound limiters, and so).
There is also the volume in-game setting, normally you want to have all your volumes at max and then the player can lower some of them, but there are games where these volumes are different at default, or even the default setting is at 50% (which I think is an error to do so).
I try to output at about -16LUFS, this is a standard musical measure. For example Youtube is -14LUFS (nearer to 0 is louder). The problem with this for short SFX is that it's not an accurate measure, so at the end your ear hearing the game is what makes the balance, hence the difference in some games you notice. And also that is for individual sounds, not a mix of SFX and music which is what the game will output.
At the end, is not an easy task to do and it's much harder to balance compared to other media.
oh cool! I always wanted to ask a few regarding time since my main field is PM.
1. How do you review the timeline based on the project? AzureDevops? you keep notes?
2. Do delays happen a lot?
3. Do you use Sprints and see the game advance every 2 weeks or something like that?
Since we are in "E3" season, how early before the presentation do you start working on a vertical slice demo or gameplay trailer. Does this process take a large amount of Development recourses. If you never had to show the game before it was basically done, how much dev time would that save?
I don't know if you'll know this. But how much work is porting to another platform, including something like a PS5 version of a PS4 game.
Oh and thanks for this thread! I love these kind of myth busting perspective pieces.
How much impact is Cross Gen actually having in terms of how modern game design is impacted? Like if say, Horizon Forbidden West was a PS5 only game would it suddenly have looked/played/felt far different than what we got?
Thanks for the thread!
- actually I've always wondered how game development process done (not talking about pre production, planning, beta alpha etc.), more like do you start by developing the tools and assets needed, and then starts with making the game from A to Z, or just random parts where X part assets are finished, and keep same process until all the parts done?
- does the game engine really matters? Especially when it comes to different genres?
Great thread!
Since you're a designer, what are some common design principles that can be found in most games? Sorry if this is too broad a question. Any insight is much appreciated!
Thank you for this thread!
Does having to scale games to different consoles SKUs (Xbox One -> Xbox One X, PS4 -> PS4 Pro, Series S -> Series X) add a lot of time/headache to development? And is there any truth to the assertion that something like a Series S could "hold back" what can be accomplished in a modern game?
Horizon: Forbidden West had a release date that was snuggling up against Elden Ring. Most of the universe regarded this as a Bad Idea. And yet here we are. Same with Titanfall 2 being sandwiched between Battlefield and Call of Duty. My question is; is there *any* veto power from *anybody* that can stop... this? Schedules are a thing, but to so brazenly volunteer to snatch defeat from the hands of even a chance at victory; does marketing have that much power against devs?
How much infrastructure work does you or your team do? Or DevOps for that matter. I left software for The Cloud long ago and always wanted to work in gaming.
Cool thread bro!
Have you worked in non-game software development and if so, what do you think is the biggest difference in your day-to-day??
How much thought/attention is UI/UX design given normally? Not to call anyone out, but it seems like as opposed to things like 3D camera control which is largely seen as a solved problem in modern games, many modern games seems to make the same sorts of mistakes over and over again (things like unclear menu options, illegible or "style-over-function" font choices, inconsistent or overly complex menu structures, and especially on PC things like a lack of quit to desktop and other quality-of-life options). Anecdotally i've always heard that UI tends to be one of the last things added in a development cycle, so it makes sense that it might not get the attention it deserves, but are there any standard frameworks or engine plugins that are available, and if so, why might a developer choose to roll their own instead of just using those? I get that there is probably a desire to make every game bespoke, but UI/UX seems like the type of thing that would benefit from much more consistency.
On a related note, why is it that so many devs seems resistant to providing control customization. Is this just another example of "more work than they have time for", or are there conscious decisions made to lock users into a specific control scheme? If the former, why do we still see many examples of PC ports that open up the controls for keyboard/mouse but keep the controller options locked down?
It feels like some games nowadays have a bunch of systems that feel really disconnected from each other and so I'm wondering how often this is a result of games with huge development teams where work is split into smaller teams that may not always communicate much with each other
How does "fading to black" look behind the scenes? Me and my friend were joking that it could be done by putting a big black transparent rectangle on top of the screen and then increasing the opacity of it
Interesting thread !
I have one question about UI and Menus :
Why is the framerate unlocked in menu screens in some games ? I had to stop playing some games from fear the console / PC would overheat while browsing menu items (ex : metal gear 5 on Ps4 in the chopper)
It's weird to me that the hardware is having a harder time on the menu that in the gameplay sections.
Is there a technical reason to not lock the framerate in menu navigation ?
Thanks for your answers.
Very cool thread.
If you could define game development in fases which fases would they be maybe with some explanation of those fases and for a typical AAA game how much percentage wise roughly would those fases be of the total development.
For teams working on first-person shooters:
Why isn't bumper jumper the default scheme? It feels so weird to map jumps to a face button, since it means letting go of the right stick which you need for aiming.
Thanks for the answer. Forza Horizon is a pretty good example of your mp photo mode point.
How do you feel about the hardware and your future games? Is there anything you're really excited to push as we move forward with new gen?
Thanks again for answering my last question. This one's a bit more straightforward.
What kind of costs are there when it comes to releasing and patching console games? Renting dev kits, cost to release on their platform, cost to patch on their platform? I've heard it can cost $10,000 to release one patch on a Playstation title?
An incredibly specific question. I've played games all my life and off the top of my head only 1 game has had this feature.
So in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories (Gameboy Advance). For whatever season if you save in say slot 4 > save later > it will default to slot 4 to save again.
It completely eliminates mashing the button and oversaving by accident. It's kinda incredible this design hasn't been mass adopted. Is there a specific reason in the GUI games can't auto point to which slot you loaded from/last saved?
These are more specifically questions about your time working on WD:L, as I'm assuming you weren't working at Ubi Toronto but either the Kyiv or Bucharest office...
How was responsibility over different parts of the game split across remote studios that weren't Toronto to ensure everyone was able to work effectively?
How was communication and task delegation between teams that were remote from each other handled, particularly for unplanned tasks or day-to-day info (e.g. "This particular feature doesn't work the way I expected, someone in another office is responsible for it and I don't know exactly who")?
Were there dependencies on other teams that were remote from you, and if so how did you deal with them? What sort of problems did you face?
You say you're in the mobile space now. What do you think about the recent furore with Diablo Immortal's monetisation model, and is there ever a point when you're designing a F2P mobile game when ethical considerations are seriously discussed? I'm thinking of a video that was posted in one of the Diablo threads where a designer outlined ways to squeeze as much money from consumers as possible, using all sorts of psychological tricks.
I don't want to imply that you are working on a game like that, or to call into question your integrity or ethics, but I am curious if that side of things is ever considered during the development of games, and what impact it might have on how it is designed.
It depends on the game.Very interesting. But could you also define a typical timing for these phases? I have, for example, read somewhere that pre-production can be an even longer phase than production itself. Is this true?
Now that next-gen is already available, what challenges you face when developing a game for a newer machine?
How do you guys go about not having the player break the game and being stuck to the point where they have to start the whole game over?
For example:
A survival horror game like Resident evil where items are scarce. What if I use up all my ammo, health, etc. Will this trigger the engine to drop more items or temporarily make the enemies weaker to balance things out until you gain a certain amount of items back?
Have you even been involved in a escort quest where the NPC walks slower than your characters minimum speeds.
If so, why did you do it >:(
Imagine you're playing a game like Assassin's Creed or Hitman where you can walk up behind NPCs to stealth kill them (something that happens in many games). This means for proper flow your walk speed has to be faster than NPC walk speed, so that's how it gets implemented.
And then you might get a situation where you have to follow an NPC while talking, well making speed adjustments for that essentially becomes a totally different feature on its own that's unrelated to the needs of core gameplay and it might not always get prioritized over other things.
A very minor question but I always wondered how developers test or decide on the size/type of fonts in the UI of games. My working assumption is that there's probably some set of established design standards about the ideal ratios relative to screen space. But I'd be curious to know if this actually changes very much during development and play-testing or if its just tweaked a little here and there.
A lot of games nowadays tend to provide more accessibility options in terms of being able to scale or modify the default values, but I find they tend to be more 'all or nothing' in terms of being global settings. As I get older it's getting a bit more frustrating when only a few individual elements of the HUD or menus are too small but I can't make them readable without blowing up everything else too.
You're right, I wrote that question in much less time than it deserved.
The main thing that's been bugging me for a while is the stopping power of extrinsic motivators. They have a tendency to kill someone's interest in continuing to do something once the extrinsic reward is received, even if they weren't originally in it for the reward. I've experienced it myself, as I'm sure many have. Based on this, you'd think that when a game needs to keep its players around, it would steer toward intrinsic motivators and away from the extrinsic.
So I'm a little bit puzzled by the modern design standards for playerbase retention, which usually seem to revolve around giving players a constant stream of new extrinsic motivators so that they don't stop playing due to the fulfillment of the previous extrinsic motivators, and so on and so on. It strikes me as a high-effort solution that perpetuates the very problem it solves.
So that's what I'm wondering about. Is there some pressing need to do things this way? Older games were able to sustain communities without these methods. Is that not viable anymore for some reason?
I feel like any question that comes to my mind would basically turn into a rant about some popular, recurring feature in modern game design that I don't like.
Minimaps/omniscient GPS navigators, unlimited/unrestricted fast travel available at any point anywhere, excessive amount of loot littering the game world at every two steps... That sort of thing.
I guess a way to summarize it in the most generalized form could be "Why system designers can't accept that not everything that is immediately convenient for the player is necessarily an improvement to the game experience?
Is this stuff even discussed/debated internally or everyone just accepts that the "typical triple A" template set by the usual big franchises is simply the way to go?