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Mozendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,230
Pacific North West
*looks around*

Who else is doing it? Who else are attacking Asians with almost comical levels of violence while everyone just kind of looks around and says "Hey dudes Mortal Kombat is about Asians right? AAPI Month! FLAWLESS VITORY lol right? Right?..... no?"

Why is there no conversation happening about an obvious problem that is happening before our eyes?
I don't know what's more depressing.
The thought that you're so incredibly hurt that you thought your post was rational
or the fact that you spent a significant time on a website that's against bigotry to the point where you have over 10,000 post and are quick to blame the black community.
 
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16bitnova

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,700
Ugh. I feel so fucking sorry for the people who have to deal with this. Fucking fear just walking outside because other people are fucking stupid assholes. I can't even imagine what living like that could feel like. Get. Me. Out. Of. This. Country.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
*looks around*

Who else is doing it? Who else are attacking Asians with almost comical levels of violence while everyone just kind of looks around and says "Hey dudes Mortal Kombat is about Asians right? AAPI Month! FLAWLESS VITORY lol right? Right?..... no?"

Why is there no conversation happening about an obvious problem that is happening before our eyes?

whoa

I KNOW this is how people feel but it's amazing to read

I remember the first story I heard about these hate crimes from last year was a Mexican kid who stabbed a mother and her 6 & two year old children. someone caught a ban for calling the attacker a "Mexican piece of shit" or something like that...

the mass shooting of mostly Asian women by a white guy in Atlanta was a huge deal. White guy killed 8 people and the sheriff or whatever said he had a bad day.

www.resetera.com

Piece of shit suckerpunches elderly Asian woman in SF, ends up in a stretcher

This happened a few miles from my apartment this morning https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/03/17/elderly-asian-woman-beats-up-man-attacking-her-in-san-francisco/ Anyone who attacks the elderly deserve to end up paralyzed as far as I'm concerned. Gofundme set up for her medical...

www.resetera.com

Asian American ( 55 ) was killed, dismembered after giving suspects a ride News

A man who went missing last week and was later found killed after a high-speed chase and crash early Sunday had been dismembered, court records show. Mathew Cramer, 21, and Jacob Carreon-Hamilton, 20, have been arrested in the death and subsequent dismemberment of 55-year-old Shane V. Nguyen...

Did you forget about these attack?

I understand very well how easy it is to scapegoat black people but it's really telling that people choose to skip over all these crazy high profile hate crimes and literally ask "who else is doing it?" as if it's just or primarily black people

I don't think literally ignoring the anti-Asian hate crimes perpetrated by non-black people is the answer
 

oldboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,379
It feels weird seeing some posters try to shift the blame onto white supremacy. Not even a kind word for the victim.

As others have pointed out, black people, just as everybody else, aren't a monolith. Most on here should be smart enough to realize that the actions of a few aren't representative of the community as a whole.

Some of it is surely linked to WS, but trying to take a racist's agency away from them comes off as tribalistic.

That said, poor guy. Must've been doubly horrifying being assaulted with his infant. Lock the attacker away ASAP.

Edit: it's also depressing to see some ignoring all the white on asian hate crimes all of a sudden.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory generalizations, recently returned from 1 month ban
because a handful of individuals doing crimes/terrible actions very quickly turns into a "Problem with the entire Black community" for many people.
This.

I'm not gonna quote as to not dog pile on anyone but yeah, it's the racist line of thinking that takes actions of a few as the face of the whole.
Like, my goodness ... it's amazing to see how willing people are to forget about every case of every other group doing this shit to hyper focus on boosting black cases to make us the face of it. Like a week or so ago, White guy randomly stabs an Asian Man to death in Washington ... a whole family from Puerto Rico IIRC assaulted a girl and killed her cat ... White guy mass murders via targeting AMPs but "Who else but the BLACKS?!?!".


And no, I'm not going to act like there isn't some wariness/ divide between the communities. Black people aren't fucking stupid, we know how strong and deep Anti-Blackness runs in Asian communities be them overseas or in NA. This isn't something I had to be told, just growing up in Chicago made it clear that "many Asians really hate Black people/ are racist af" so I understand how that can result in the apathy I see for these attacks in most of my circles.

But these attacks HAVE prompted me to look into the history of these groups and the true enemy is White Supremacy.
Man what's with black people fucking up on this. I don't see how you could be black and wanna do that to someone else knowing the shit we went through. That's fucking backwards fam. Awful and he out here thinking he tough for beating up on someone with a kid.
... This is silly.
That's like saying "I don't know how you can be black and bring down another black person for having fewer Eurocentric features than you knowing the shit we all go through".

Being black doesn't make you immune to White Supremacy ideas/ hate or anything, and it sure doesn't make you an automatic honorable guardian angel for every PoC.
 
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Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,840
I'm getting pretty tired of posters who are taking, anti-Asian attackers who happens to be black, and turning it into, black people attacking Asians.

There is far more nuance that needs to be discussed when speaking to the issues and barriers between these communities, but trying to use stories such as these to define the issues is not only ignorant, but incredibly harmful, and only serves to perpetuate the notion that these communities are against each other.

Trying to simplify such a complex problem only serves to promote division.

We can do better, and we should do better.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,648
Earth
Man what's with black people fucking up on this. I don't see how you could be black and wanna do that to someone else knowing the shit we went through. That's fucking backwards fam. Awful and he out here thinking he tough for beating up on someone with a kid.

Black people are not monolith, same with Asian people.

Please don't equal one person action with whole group.

There are black supporter of Trump, just like there are Asian supporter of Trump too.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
*looks around*

Who else is doing it? Who else are attacking Asians with almost comical levels of violence while everyone just kind of looks around and says "Hey dudes Mortal Kombat is about Asians right? AAPI Month! FLAWLESS VITORY lol right? Right?..... no?"

Why is there no conversation happening about an obvious problem that is happening before our eyes?

Your link uses Tariq Nasheed of all people for a quote. Maybe try again.

The basic premise may be justified, but that doesn't change the fact that, in most of these videos, the perpetrators of most of these violent attacks on Asian Americans or people they think are Asian Americans are visibly from a certain demographic. So even if actual statistics tell a different story it's hard to make abstract numbers beat out something you can actually see if your eyes.

And no, I'm not going to act like there isn't some wariness/divide between the communities. Black people aren't fucking stupid, we know how strong and deep Anti-Blackness runs in Asian communities be them overseas or in NA. This isn't something I had to be told, just growing up in Chicago made it clear that "many Asians really hate Black people/ are racist af" so I understand how that can result in the apathy I see for these attacks in most of my circles.

You guys sure picked a hill to die on, yikes.

It feels weird seeing some posters try to shift the blame onto white supremacy. Not even a kind word for the victim.

As others have pointed out, black people, just as everybody else, aren't a monolith. Most on here should be smart enough to realize that the actions of a few aren't representative of the community as a whole.

Some of it is surely linked to WS, but trying to take a racist's agency away from them comes off as tribalistic.

That said, poor guy. Must've been doubly horrifying being assaulted with his infant. Lock the attacker away ASAP.

Edit: it's also depressing to see some ignoring all the white on asian hate crimes all of a sudden.

We all feel bad for the victim.
 
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Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,821
And no, I'm not going to act like there isn't some wariness/ divide between the communities. Black people aren't fucking stupid, we know how strong and deep Anti-Blackness runs in Asian communities be them overseas or in NA. This isn't something I had to be told, just growing up in Chicago made it clear that "many Asians really hate Black people/ are racist af" so I understand how that can result in the apathy I see for these attacks in most of my circles.

I agree with the things you said before this but this right here is just stupid. Flip the Asian and black people in what you just said and see how you feel. Black people aren't stupid so they know how racist we are? You learned this through experience by growing up in Chicago that many of us are racist asf? you can understand the apathy? Wtf.
 

KayonXaikyre

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,984
Black people are not monolith, same with Asian people.

Please don't equal one person action with whole group.

There are black supporter of Trump, just like there are Asian supporter of Trump too.

This.
... This is silly.
That's like saying "I don't know how you can be black and bring down another black person for having fewer Eurocentric features than you knowing the shit we all go through".

Being black doesn't make you immune to White Supremacy ideas/ hate or anything, and it sure doesn't make you an automatic honorable guardian angel for every PoC.

I'm sorry for a poor reaction. It's just more of a hating to see it situation more so because I've been the receiving end of injustice before and my own experience made me react strongly. I don't equate one persons actions to it nor do I actually think every black person behaves like this, but I just know the energy that goes out into the world when stuff like this happens. I'll edit my post to better explain my intentions and remember not post so quickly without more clearly thinking it through.
 

S-Wind

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,175
And no, I'm not going to act like there isn't some wariness/ divide between the communities. Black people aren't fucking stupid, we know how strong and deep Anti-Blackness runs in Asian communities be them overseas or in NA. This isn't something I had to be told, just growing up in Chicago made it clear that "many Asians really hate Black people/ are racist af" so I understand how that can result in the apathy I see for these attacks in most of my circles.

So are the mods gonna come down on this anti-Asian shit as quickly as they come down on anti-Blackness?
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
It feels weird seeing some posters try to shift the blame onto white supremacy.
---------
---------
Some of it is surely linked to WS, but trying to take a racist's agency away from them comes off as tribalistic.

Pointing out the root cause of something doesn't take agency away from them. Anyone who does this type of shit is in the wrong, but there is a clear root to Anti-Asian hate in the US.


So are the mods gonna come down on this anti-Asian shit as quickly as they come down on anti-Blackness?
How is pointing out that Black people recognize anti-blackness in the Asian community "Anti-Asian"?
 
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Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
This.

I'm not gonna quote as to not dog pile on anyone but yeah, it's the racist line of thinking that takes actions of a few as the face of the whole.
Like, my goodness ... it's amazing to see how willing people are to forget about every case of every other group doing this shit to hyper focus on boosting black cases to make us the face of it. Like a week or so ago, White guy randomly stabs an Asian Man to death in Washington ... a whole family from Puerto Rico IIRC assaulted a girl and killed her cat ... White guy mass murders via targeting AMPs but "Who else but the BLACKS?!?!".


And no, I'm not going to act like there isn't some wariness/ divide between the communities. Black people aren't fucking stupid, we know how strong and deep Anti-Blackness runs in Asian communities be them overseas or in NA. This isn't something I had to be told, just growing up in Chicago made it clear that "many Asians really hate Black people/ are racist af" so I understand how that can result in the apathy I see for these attacks in most of my circles.

But these attacks HAVE prompted me to look into the history of these groups and the true enemy is White Supremacy.

... This is silly.
That's like saying "I don't know how you can be black and bring down another black person for having fewer Eurocentric features than you knowing the shit we all go through".

Being black doesn't make you immune to White Supremacy ideas/ hate or anything, and it sure doesn't make you an automatic honorable guardian angel for every PoC.
I have to agree with Waffle that this post comes across as quite callous and victim blaming.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
I agree with the things you said before this but this right here is just stupid. Flip the Asian and black people in what you just said and see how you feel. Black people aren't stupid so they know how racist we are? You learned this through experience by growing up in Chicago that many of us are racist asf? you can understand the apathy? Wtf.
I have to agree with Waffle that this post comes across as quite callous and victim blaming.

I did not say any of this to victim blame as no one deserves to be a victim of hate crimes.

I was trying to point out the divide between these 2 groups as to show how no one is immune to doing this fuckery. There is no excuse to do anything like this and I recognize these groups are not unified and have tensions which can lead to a level of apathy with in some. (And by "apathy" I'm simply referring to not seeing Anti-Asian attacks boosted as much in general compared to things happening to other group in my circles. )

Perhaps I didn't word that well enough and people took that as me excusing the crimes (No excuse for them) instead of pointing out the levels of discussion I see for these crimes in my own social circles. It is 2 completely different thoughts/ topics, so I'm sorry if that's the case.
 
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KayMote

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,326
This is simply terrible and I just can't begin to understand how a nation can tolerate such systemic attacks.
So what is the American Government actively doing against it (apart from speaking out on Twitter lol...)? What is going on in the executive background?

I would regard people who just randomly attack people on the street not for personal but for racist reasons as terrorists who should be locked up for several years. Those are a real danger for society.
 
Discussion guidelines

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Official Staff Communication
There have been unfortunate tensions in this thread and others about the fact that some perpetrators of recent anti-Asian violence have been black or other POC, and some folks have been interested in stoking division between these communities and pitting them against each other. That's not okay.

It's fine to discuss the background of these attackers, but when we do that it should be done holistically. For example, in this case and many others, the attacker has a history of violent crime and there is a discussion to be had about whether the justice system and attempts at rehabilitation are working. There's a discussion to be had about whether the DAs and police in these cities are doing their jobs properly and making them safe for all residents.

What's not okay is fixating solely on the race of the perpetrators and making inflammatory generalizations based on a handful of cases. It is not okay to suggest that a few violent, repeat criminals are representative of the black community. It is also not okay to suggest that these attacks were somehow provoked by anti-black attitudes in the Asian community. All of this ignores that some of the worst recent incidents were carried out by white men.

Don't make inflammatory generalizations period. Members that appear more interested in stoking divisions between marginalized groups than in having a constructive discussion will be banned.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,670
Just incredible...the anti-asian racism on the supposedly "liberal" era really knows no bound. And people are wondering why the fuck this is happening in this country.

at least that dude got banned but still, just wow.
 

Deleted member 4179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
518
User banned (1 Month): Dismissing concerns around racism. Prior ban for modwhining
Can Era just compile all their pre-approved world views and opinions in one place so I don't accidentally get banned, thank you. It seems to change depending on whatever we're mad about that month so if we could keep it constantly updated too that would be great
 

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,805
And this piece of shit no doubt thinks he's some kinda tough guy for doing that. Lowest of the low.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,648
Earth
Can Era just compile all their pre-approved world views and opinions in one place so I don't accidentally get banned, thank you. It seems to change depending on whatever we're mad about that month so if we could keep it constantly updated too that would be great

Dont be raciat, sexist amd other similiar viewpoint that is easy to know is mpt good?
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
13,894
Trump ginned up anti-Asian sentiment for months and his own party refused to say anything to stop it. Trump wasn't speaking to black people, he was speaking to all people. In a recent Pew poll 81% of Asian respondents said they felt fear of violence against them. That's more than double any other group. Asians rightfully feel threatened by everyone.
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
Can Era just compile all their pre-approved world views and opinions in one place so I don't accidentally get banned, thank you. It seems to change depending on whatever we're mad about that month so if we could keep it constantly updated too that would be great
Is it really that hard to not generalize a group of people?

The mods even state why the members got banned, what is exactly confusing about the last couple bans so far in this thread.
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,063
www.npr.org

Screams And Silence : Code Switch

Asian American organizers and influencers have been trying to sound the alarm over a dramatic spike in reports of anti-Asian racism over the last year, and have been frustrated by the lack of media and public attention paid to their worries. Then came last week, when a deadly shooting spree in...

DEMBY: OK. So real quick, 'cause now I'm curious, like, what do we know about who was carrying out these attacks on Asian people?

PERRY: So I talked to a researcher from University of Michigan. Her and her team have been tracking all incidents of anti-Asian racism and violence that were reported in the news during all of 2020. I just want to back up and say that these numbers are spotty because a lot of these incidents don't get reported.
So what the team did find out is that white people accounted for 90% of anti-Asian incidents in 2020, but only 5% of perpetrators were Black.
 

Zaphod

Member
Aug 21, 2019
1,101
Can Era just compile all their pre-approved world views and opinions in one place so I don't accidentally get banned, thank you. It seems to change depending on whatever we're mad about that month so if we could keep it constantly updated too that would be great

I don't know what to tell you if you need an official list to avoid accidentally blaming the black community for anti-Asian violence.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Piece of shit went for an easy target, one who wouldn't fight back. You can even see him flexing in the clip.

Official Staff Communication
There have been unfortunate tensions in this thread and others about the fact that some perpetrators of recent anti-Asian violence have been black or other POC, and some folks have been interested in stoking division between these communities and pitting them against each other. That's not okay.

It's fine to discuss the background of these attackers, but when we do that it should be done holistically. For example, in this case and many others, the attacker has a history of violent crime and there is a discussion to be had about whether the justice system and attempts at rehabilitation are working. There's a discussion to be had about whether the DAs and police in these cities are doing their jobs properly and making them safe for all residents.

What's not okay is fixating solely on the race of the perpetrators and making inflammatory generalizations based on a handful of cases. It is not okay to suggest that a few violent, repeat criminals are representative of the black community. It is also not okay to suggest that these attacks were somehow provoked by anti-black attitudes in the Asian community. All of this ignores that some of the worst recent incidents were carried out by white men.

Don't make inflammatory generalizations period. Members that appear more interested in stoking divisions between marginalized groups than in having a constructive discussion will be banned.
Unless I'm missing something the info atm says that he was arrested for robbery the previous month, doesnt say anything about a history of violent crime?
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,840
Piece of shit went for an easy target, one who wouldn't fight back. You can even see him flexing in the clip.

Unless I'm missing something the info atm says that he was arrested for robbery the previous month, doesnt say anything about a history of violent crime?
His previous attack was robbing a market, then shoving someone onto the MUNI track, and in the same location.

news.yahoo.com

Asian American Father Walking With 1-Year-Old Son in Stroller Repeatedly Punched in SF

An Asian American father was waiting to cross the street with his 1-year-old child when a man approached and hit him from behind in San Francisco on Friday. What happened: Bruce, 36, was outside of Gus’s Community Market by the intersection of 4th and Channel streets around 2 p.m. in Mission...

The 26-year-old was arrested one month prior at the same location for a separate assault and theft after allegedly stealing from Gus's Community Market, shoving a man onto the MUNI train tracks and hurt someone's knee, Lim shared on Twitter.
 
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Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
His previous attack was robbing a market, then shoving them onto the MUNI track, and in the same location.

news.yahoo.com

Asian American Father Walking With 1-Year-Old Son in Stroller Repeatedly Punched in SF

An Asian American father was waiting to cross the street with his 1-year-old child when a man approached and hit him from behind in San Francisco on Friday. What happened: Bruce, 36, was outside of Gus’s Community Market by the intersection of 4th and Channel streets around 2 p.m. in Mission...
I stand entirely corrected then. I was going off what was posted in the thread so far.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,648
Earth
I'm sorry for a poor reaction. It's just more of a hating to see it situation more so because I've been the receiving end of injustice before and my own experience made me react strongly. I don't equate one persons actions to it nor do I actually think every black person behaves like this, but I just know the energy that goes out into the world when stuff like this happens. I'll edit my post to better explain my intentions and remember not post so quickly without more clearly thinking it through.

Unfortunate is that alot of the attack is not report in news, and alot of the one reporting are not good news source like daily mail and similiar news source in English and they seem to seek out news where the attacker is black to make it seem all are
 

Forgrim

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
371
Living in NYC, I follow more of the NYC asian attacks, and the most publicized ones was the mother killer convict stomping out the elderly phillipino lady near times square, and the beatdown of chinese elder guy in the bronx by the homeless guy, saying it was retribution (no evidence of what this retribution was for).

I think people have to realize its gotten bad. Asian American, born and raised in America for 30+ years, and this is the only year i've ever walked out in the streets of NYC and i'm sizing up everyone. I've been accosted by both black and white people this year (3 total incidents since COVID) and i've said it before in other threads, my mother is absolutely petrified and it really doesn't help with her old world beliefs of America.
 

GFP_RYU

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,257
User banned (1 month): inflammatory false equivalence surrounding bigotry
Just incredible...the anti-asian racism on the supposedly "liberal" era really knows no bound. And people are wondering why the fuck this is happening in this country.

at least that dude got banned but still, just wow.

This forum sadly allows anti-Asian or Anti -Christ Anti God beliefs and it's really sad.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,383
Seoul
It pains my heart to see black people involved in doing this shit.
Yeah that's the most frustrating part about it for me. I dont really know how to say it, but I think nothing is gonna get better if people who are usually the victims of violence and things are now doing those same things to other people. Its awful
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
If you were in "Does GOD exists topics", you will see the evidence.

I will not go further in this topic as it is not related though. Good day
So you just do a vague drive by statement and then peace out when asked?

I don't get why you posted that then.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,840
If you were in "Does GOD exists topics", you will see the evidence.

I will not go further in this topic as it is not related though. Good day
I just replied to the other user's comment. Where is the drive by anyway when I clearly posted on my first sentence on where to look for evidence?

You can have the last word
If it wasn't related to this topic, then why bring it up?

It's pretty clear that you're posting in bad faith, as you conflated anti-Asian violence, to Atheist beliefs.

Feels more like you just wanted to complain about that aspect of the forum rather than engage in the actual discussion, and have show no sign of actually caring about the topic of anti-Asian violence, as you're more willing to leave the discussion because you've been called out, rather than explaining why you feel it was pertinent to this discussion.

Making statements like, "You can have the last word", just makes you pedantic and shallow.
 

DarthWoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,658
If you were in "Does GOD exists topics", you will see the evidence.

I will not go further in this topic as it is not related. Good day
Conflating bigotry against an entire people who we can be quite certain exist with a disbelief in the mythical figures of a single religion seems wildly worse than just "unrelated."
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,383
Seoul
Conflating bigotry against an entire people who we can be quite certain exist with a disbelief in the mythical figures of a single religion seems wildly worse than just "unrelated."
He's always randomly showing up in random threads talking about people being "anti-god" and it never makes any sense.
 

josaka

Member
Dec 20, 2017
90
I just found out that my first intern got attacked recently. She's a 20-year-old college student of Mongolian descent.

I'm going to go take a long walk before I hop a plane to San Francisco and do something stupid.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
I've had this conversation many times, and I think "white supremacy" is fine as an academic answer and analysis.

But ultimately it doesn't mitigate or resolve any actions taken. What is it people are thinking? Where are they learning it today? From whom? How is it spreading?

Those are more salient questions. Because the issue is this - we've gone over everything that probably won't help. We've covered the "original sin."

But we don't really have a direct response or solution to the problem. Regardless of what the race of the perpetrator is. And I can imagine that's unsatisfying to most people, but especially to Asians in these threads.

I personally don't know anyone of any race who would attack a random person. What do you all think the attackers are thinking?
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
I've had this conversation many times, and I think "white supremacy" is fine as an academic answer and analysis.

But ultimately it doesn't mitigate or resolve any actions taken. What is it people are thinking? Where are they learning it today? From whom? How is it spreading?

Those are more salient questions. Because the issue is this - we've gone over everything that probably won't help. We've covered the "original sin."

But we don't really have a direct response or solution to the problem. Regardless of what the race of the perpetrator is. And I can imagine that's unsatisfying to most people, but especially to Asians in these threads.

I personally don't know anyone of any race who would attack a random person. What do you all think the attackers are thinking?

Right? Everyone is sorta sidestepping the offender. You know how the news jumps over hoops to tell us the offender life story and motivation when it's usually a white person? I would like more focus on the offenders who are minorities. (Tho obviously that is ripe for further issues like casting it as a minority vs minority) I really want someone to ask the offenders, why?

Otherwise we are just not really getting to the root of the problem. Oh we can guess but still, it would beneficial.