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airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,644
Charleston, SC
1. A$AP Rocky and his crew harbor abusers/rapists, I don't have any sympathy for him being in jail
2. The videos I saw, had these dudes following them around and Rocky asking them to back up and they didn't want to fight
3. No one deserves to get beaten like that, they 100% went overboard on these weird guys stalking them
4. Fuck A$AP Rocky and every male artist (Justin Bieber) screaming "free A$AP" but remained silent on shit like Ke$ha's abuse, etc.
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,437
God, I hope he goes to jail and Sweden doesn't bow to international pressure. Shit like this is disgusting.

Given that the judiciary is completely independent, there is no international pressure. I'm sure the judge couldn't give two fucks about what people on Reddit are writing, what Trump tweets, or if Tyler is ever gonna return for another concert.

Rocky is gonna get his punishment if he deserves one, and then we can go back to what the law says and argue whether it was justified or not based on the evidence presented.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,943
Belgium
Burglars will be armed regardless.
That's actually not true - most burglars (at least here in Belgium) are unarmed. Someone getting harmed in a burglary is so rare it makes the news.

Don't forget that it's a lot harder (and more expensive) to get guns here, and getting caught with them gives you longer jailtime then burglary (up to five years for carrying guns vs only 1-5 months for non violent burglary).
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,247
The culture clash between American Celebrity culture and the Swedish justice system is kind of amazing to see unfold.

All the posts of "he had it coming". I wonder why the US murder rate is so high. Most posters have no idea how far they can go when acting in self-defense, even in their own country. We have a lawyer in this thread debunking the claim that you can act like this in self-defense even in the US.

But fuck listening, I have to get in my machismo hot take first. Grow the fuck up.
 

siteseer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
not defending asap but is this stalking thing a grift? you stalk a famous person, preferably with macho bodyguards and entourage, wait to get beat up, let the law find them guilty of assault, then sue for damages?
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,564
AFAIK: people (especially African American) don't like calling the police, and you can't blame them... just read the news and you see what CAN happen, spoiler: you just might end up dead.

(I'm not American)
That might be so in the US, but e.g. in Germany, a country of over 80 million people, the police fired 75 shots in 2017, 14 of them deadly. So if you visit another country, maybe check beforehand what shit's okay or not and if you can trust the police or not.
The culture clash between American Celebrity culture and the Swedish justice system is kind of amazing to see unfold.

All the posts of "he had it coming". I wonder why the US murder rate is so high. Most posters have no idea how far they can go when acting in self-defense, even in their own country. We have a lawyer in this thread debunking the claim that you can act like this in self-defense even in the US.

But fuck listening, I have to get in my machismo hot take first. Grow the fuck up.
To add to this, seems like victim blaming is now an okay thing to do? Or is it when the perpetrator is a celeb?
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,943
Belgium
not defending asap but is this stalking thing a grift? you stalk a famous person, preferably with macho bodyguards and entourage, wait to get beat up, let the law find them guilty of assault, then sue for damages?
- You can't sue for damages in the same way as in the US
- The guys who did it were probably/possibly on drugs, that's why they acted weird.
 

strudelkuchen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,079
That might be so in the US, but e.g. in Germany, a country of over 80 million people, the police fired 75 shots in 2017, 14 of them deadly. So if you visit another country, maybe check beforehand what shit's okay or not and if you can trust the police or not.

[...]
yeah, I did edit my post that this is of course not the case in sweden
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,437
like how much though? a couple thousand? as fucked as it is i'm sure some down on their luck people would take a couple thousand in exchange for a light beating.


Assault and robbery of a little coarser type, SEK 10,000 - 15,000
Example: Larger violence against the face or hard kicks. Violence against you when you lie down. Violent violence can justify even higher demands. Robbery with dangerous weapons.

So say max 1500 USD, but it would require a process where the assailant is convicted.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,796
Given that the judiciary is completely independent, there is no international pressure. I'm sure the judge couldn't give two fucks about what people on Reddit are writing, what Trump tweets, or if Tyler is ever gonna return for another concert.

Rocky is gonna get his punishment if he deserves one, and then we can go back to what the law says and argue whether it was justified or not based on the evidence presented.

Looking at the pictures that's not gonna be much of an argument ...
 

ThaNotoriousSOD

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
802
If you watch the video with him following the body guards, the guys are saying in Farsi something like, "that's the guy who took my stuff" and "that's he guy who hit me". I think there's a lot more going on than what ASAP put out there on an IG video lol.

Very ironic that this call to "free ASAP" is happening though given the horrid shit ASAP has said about our own criminal justice system here in America. All that said, I honestly have no idea if any of this is warranted or not. It's become an international story though and I just don't think they'd be dumb enough to double down like this if it really was bs.
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,564
like how much though? a couple thousand? as fucked as it is i'm sure some down on their luck people would take a couple thousand in exchange for a light beating.
If it's anything like in Germany, probably around $500 that the guy would have to use to pay the lawyer.
yeah, I did edit my post that this is of course not the case in sweden
Yeah saw that. Get where you're coming from but when I visit another country I inform myself beforehand about what is okay.
Never said it was bruh
Didn't imply you did, simply stating this isn't exclusive to Sweden. Did not try to offend you in any way.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
The misconceptions behind self defense are the product of really god damn stupid fake machismo.

"Ya Rocky was right cause I woulda fucked them up too bro that's what's called self defense, you start it, I finish it."

Proud of their ignorance.
Yeah I've been wondering while reading the thread, if that's an US thing or toxic masculinity thing. Could be both of course. It's wild to see nonetheless.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
From what I saw, the young man was thrown to the ground and punched after an extensive stalking campaign.

Not sure how long the fight went on. If what I saw was the whole thing, I expect the lightest possible sentence.
Here is the whole pre-trial protocol (Swedish):


So yeah they cut him with a broken beer bottle.

This is how Sweden justice system work,
552 pages for a small incident.
I assume whoever cut him with the beer bottle will get a longer sentence, however.
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,564
From what I saw, the young man was thrown to the ground and punched after an extensive stalking campaign.

Not sure how long the fight went on. If what I saw was the whole thing, I expect the lightest possible sentence.
You mean the video Rocky himself posted? That's shown to be tampered to make them look the best possible. They tried to destroy evidence and used a smashed bottle to cut the guy open.
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,564
Oh I see. Yes, I believe that is the video I saw. Very interesting.
They got lots of evidence and most of that isn't painting them in the best possible light, like instructing his assistant to film it and saying she already missed the best parts etc. Also that they have multiple witnesses saying their was never any danger to them. Could definitely see him get an, albeit light, prison sentence.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
I honestly think he would have been charged in the US, too. There is no reason to get 4 goons and kick a guy on the ground. (I just saw the vid for the first time)
 

Kalamoj

Member
Oct 28, 2017
532
Europe
As a human, someone shouldn't start shit if they don't want to suffer from the consequences. It's simple as that. Thankfully, in America, we at least have the Castle Doctrine protecting our personal property and self.
Ironically, that is exactly what is happening right now with asap rocky. Looks like he was not ready to suffer the consequences.
 

Spyware

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,455
Sweden
Just so people know, lawyers and other such people in the system predict that the trial will end in a conviction, but since the sentence is expected to be a fine or just a couple of months in prison he will be set free after the trial. This is due to the prison sentence being shortened by the time you spend in jail.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
As a human, someone shouldn't start shit if they don't want to suffer from the consequences. It's simple as that. Thankfully, in America, we at least have the Castle Doctrine protecting our personal property and self.

Castle Doctrine wouldn't apply here. But even in situations where it does, you don't have carte blanche to do whatever you want with someone just for feeling threatened. When they started kicking him on the ground, they crossed the line. If someone broke into your house, you couldn't detain and torture them, even in the most Texas of Texases.
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Castle Doctrine wouldn't apply here. But even in situations where it does, you don't have carte blanche to do whatever you want with someone just for feeling threatened. When they started kicking him on the ground, they crossed the line. If someone broke into your house, you couldn't detain and torture them, even in the most Texas of Texases.

Castle Doctrine allows for the victims to neutralize the threat and obviously torturing someone in a basement is going overboard.
 
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Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
Castle Doctrine always for the victims to neutralize the threat and obviously torturing someone in a basement is going overboard.

Right. I think they crossed the line in the vid, clearly. I'm not sure how much of a threat that guy was at any point, much less when he's on the ground getting pummled by goons. I think Rocky felt just disrespected more than endangered.
 

Aran

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
354
It's frankly disturbing that so many people in this thread think what happened is justified. Self defense does not extend to beating someone bloody when they are already on the ground.
 
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Nivash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
So I've been reading through the pre-trial protocol posted by fanboi and got to the medical records that got turned in as evidence. Apparently, the victim had stitches done the same day for the cuts on his arms at an emergency room. The surgeon also suspected a rib fracture, However, he also visited two other hospitals within a week for pain in his nose and continuing pain in his side. An ENT specialist at one hospital ruled out a nose fracture but the doctor at the other also suspected a rib fracture. Police had an X-ray done (we typically don't x-ray for rib fractures in Sweden in absence of a suspected pneumothorax, which there was no sign of) but the x-ray showed no dislocated fracture. The doctor still made the call that he likely had an undislocated fracture anyway based on symptoms. Those aren't always visible on x-ray.

Some of those kicks he got must have had some force behind them to fracture a rib in an otherwise healthy 19 year old.

I'm frankly a bit surprised that they downgraded the charge to standard degree assault. Rib fractures can hurt like hell for weeks and those cuts on his arms might leave permanent scars.
 
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Staff Post: Misinformation; outdated information

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Official Staff Communication
Please do not post rumors or unreliable or outdated sources regarding a victim's alleged criminal past, or use such information, reliable or not, as justification for condoning violence.
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
So here are the chain of events that started the incident as laid out by the prosecutors, based on security footage from nearby burger shop.

- ASAP and crew are standing outside the shop when the "stalker" and friend show up and walk past several times.
- Stalker appears to be conversing to the group with bodyguard 1 gesticulating in different directions.
- Stalker and friend walk off.
- Stalker and friend return, friend goes into the shop and stalker starts talking to bodyguard 1 again.
- Bodyguard 1 starts pointing away from them and shoves the stalker.
- Stalker turns around and walks back to bodyguard 1 who grabs him and leads him out of shot.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker shortly return to frame and bodyguard 1 shoves stalker again. Stalker stumbles but doesn't fall.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker speak until Bodyguard 1 grabs stalker by both hands and lifts him and shoves him to the ground.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker fight with Bodyguard 1 pushing stalker out of shot.
- Rest of crew follow Bodyguard 1 out of shot.
- Friend of stalker returns from shop.
- ASAP and crew return to frame and start walking in the other direction.
- Stalker and friend proceed to follow ASAP and crew. By this point stalkers headphones are gone.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,314
This thread is the perfect example of why the american justice system is broken.
 

Nivash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
So here are the chain of events that started the incident as laid out by the prosecutors, based on security footage from nearby burger shop.

- ASAP and crew are standing outside the shop when the "stalker" and friend show up and walk past several times.
- Stalker appears to be conversing to the group with bodyguard 1 gesticulating in different directions.
- Stalker and friend walk off.
- Stalker and friend return, friend goes into the shop and stalker starts talking to bodyguard 1 again.
- Bodyguard 1 starts pointing away from them and shoves the stalker.
- Stalker turns around and walks back to bodyguard 1 who grabs him and leads him out of shot.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker shortly return to frame and bodyguard 1 shoves stalker again. Stalker stumbles but doesn't fall.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker speak until Bodyguard 1 grabs stalker by both hands and lifts him and shoves him to the ground.
- Bodyguard 1 and stalker fight with Bodyguard 1 pushing stalker out of shot.
- Rest of crew follow Bodyguard 1 out of shot.
- Friend of stalker returns from shop.
- ASAP and crew return to frame and start walking in the other direction.
- Stalker and friend proceed to follow ASAP and crew. By this point stalkers headphones are gone.

Based on the video from inside the burger place, yes. There's more comments later in the document dealing with what the police are calling "the TMZ video" where you can see Bodyguard 1 and the stalker/victim exchanging blows, leading to a large crunch like something breaking. I think the chain of events they're suggesting is that the headphones got broken during the struggle that Bodyguard 1 - not the stalker/victim - initiated, which fits with the charges against the stalker/victim getting dropped as self-defence.

The pre-trial protocol paints a very different story to what team Rocky is presenting. It suggests that the victim didn't actually initiate physical conflict at any point and followed ASAP and crew because he wanted compensation for his broken headphones.
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
There's more comments later in the document dealing with what the police are calling "the TMZ video" where you can see Bodyguard 1 and the stalker/victim exchanging blows, leading to a large crunch like something breaking. I think the chain of events they're suggesting is that the headphones got broken during the struggle that Bodyguard 1 - not the stalker/victim - initiated, which fits with the charges against the stalker/victim getting dropped as self-defence.
Yeah, the TMZ vid seems to record what happens (with edits) when they go out of shot from the burger place.

But the evidence is clear as day that ASAP's bodyguard started the fight by shoving and grabbing the "stalker" because he was presumably annoying them.

ASAP and crew started the actual fight so there's goes self defense, and for all the people shouting that it was self-defense because the stalker hit the bodyguard with his headphones, surely he had the right to defend himself against a guy shoving and throwing him to the ground?
 
Breakdown of what evidence will be used in court
Oct 27, 2017
2,432
"According to the indictment, the charges brought will be supported by the following evidence, further presented in the preliminary enquiry report (https://docdro.id/z0hv0yQ, https://docdro.id/OwIo3xB):


  • Interrogations of

  1. The victim (according to the prosecution)
  2. A$AP
  3. A$AP's friend #1
  4. A$AP's friend #2
  5. Friend of the victim (previously classified as a second victim)
  6. Witness #1
  7. Witness #2

  • Technical evidence (pages refer to the preliminary enquiry report)

  1. Video recordings (mobile phones + surveillance)
  2. Police report. (p.4-15)
  3. Map of the area. (p.21)
  4. Map showing the location of the fight, broken glass bottles and traces of blood. (p.22)
  5. Image taken by the police, at the scene. (p.23)
  6. A PM on what can be seen in the above images. (p.24-26)
  7. Images from surveillance cams at Grand Hotel, showing A$AP and his entourage. (p.29-44)
  8. A PM on, and stills showing, the initial altercation recorded by surveillance cameras at the burger joint (MAX). (p.45-75)
  9. A PM on the video uploaded to A$AP's Instagram account. (p.76-85)
  10. A transcription on what can be heard in the Instagram video. (p.86-91)
  11. A PM on the video published at TMZ showing parts of the end of the confrontation. (p.92-104)
  12. Text messages extracted from the phone of A$AP's bodyguard. There it is stated that they got into a fight with the victim, that they have their own video recording of the event, that there are different versions of the video, and that he (the bodyguard) grabbed and lifted the victim by the neck. This will be used to disprove the self-defense claim of A$AP & co. (p.184-214)
  13. Text messages extracted from the phone of an assistant of A$AP, showing conversations stating that someone struck the victim with a glass bottle, she was encouraged to record with her phone, someone said she missed the good parts, the video was edited before it was uploaded to Instagram and that she's hoping A$AP has deleted everything from his phone. This will be used to disprove the self-defense claim of A$AP & co. (p.215-251)
  14. PM on the video obtained from one of the witnesses, together with stills from the video showing parts of the confrontation. This will be used to prove the lack of wounds on the victim, prior to being thrown to the ground. (p.252-285)
  15. Medical records and images detailing the injuries of the victim. (p.105-156, p.163-183)
  16. Image comparison of the broken glass bottle encountered at the scene, and the glass bottle carried by A$AP in the Instagram video. (p.86)
  17. Photographs of the bottle neck found at the scene (p.491-492)
  18. Technical analysis of the bottle neck (analyzing the potential presence of DNA, finger prints). (p.158-162)
  19. Photographs of the victim's headphones. (p.495-496)




The court proceedings are expected to take 3 days, and will take place next week."
 

Nivash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
Here's another warning to watch what you write on social media: they pulled the bodyguard's iMessage. Quoting and translating from the protocol:

iMessege group conversation between Timothy Williams and Boom daddys lil girl, Boom yanna, Boom mama (probably Williams family)

Those are some awesome nicknames btw. No, really, not being sarcastic here.

Williams sends the instagram video Mayer's posted on instagram. Boom daddy's lil girl writes that he should have broken his neck. Williams writes that he could have twisted his head off. Williams continues to write that he lifted the guy by the neck until he was off the ground and threw him.

These being stuff that they deliberately edited out of the instagram video.

EDIT: oh, there's more. From the assistant Abigail Hercule's iMessage:

The conversation with Gabby occurs while Hercules is on a walk in Stockholm with Corniel, Mayers, Rispers and Williams. Hercules writes that it's not normal to talk about women's asses and point them out to the extent that they are. Hercules writes that she's lost all hope in humanity. She writes that she's walking far behind them and have plugged her earbuds in so as not to hear them. Hercules writes that men are trash and that the way they talk about women disgusts her.

Not entirely to do with the case besides naming the people in Rocky's crew, but yikes. Oh, she also writes that she's going to be a feminist after the trip. Gabby calls praise be but also writes that rappers are probably 5 times worse than normal men. Hercules counters that she tried to ask them if they haven't got anything else to talk about (than women's asses) but one of the "boys" just answered "was I talking to you". Abby and Gabby agree that it would be better if they were lesbians. Double yikes.
 
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Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
1. A$AP Rocky and his crew harbor abusers/rapists, I don't have any sympathy for him being in jail
2. The videos I saw, had these dudes following them around and Rocky asking them to back up and they didn't want to fight
3. No one deserves to get beaten like that, they 100% went overboard on these weird guys stalking them
4. Fuck A$AP Rocky and every male artist (Justin Bieber) screaming "free A$AP" but remained silent on shit like Ke$ha's abuse, etc.
1. If you're talking about ASAP Bari, Rocky and basically everyone in the ASAP group have outted him, and he plead guilty for it. ASAP Rocky specifically doesn't even communicate with Bari anymore I'm prettys ure.
2/3. To be fair they also threw their headphones right at their bodyguard and then continued to follow him for what seems like hours around sweden.
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,564
1. If you're talking about ASAP Bari, Rocky and basically everyone in the ASAP group have outted him, and he plead guilty for it. ASAP Rocky specifically doesn't even communicate with Bari anymore I'm prettys ure.
2/3. To be fair they also threw their headphones right at their bodyguard and then continued to follow him for what seems like hours around sweden.
Look at the posts above yours. This has seemingly been debunked by the police and it was actually Rockys group that started the conflict. They followed them because they got violent and the headphones broke in an act of self-defence. Would have taken you two minutes to just read in this very thread.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,056
oh, there's more. From the assistant Abigail Hercule's iMessage:



Not entirely to do with the case besides naming the people in Rocky's crew, but yikes. Oh, she also writes that she's going to be a feminist after the trip. Gabby calls praise be but also writes that rappers are probably 5 times worse than normal men. Hercules counters that she tried to ask them if they haven't got anything else to talk about (than women's asses) but one of the "boys" just answered "was I talking to you". Abby and Gabby agree that it would be better if they were lesbians. Double yikes.

She also wrote in the other, previously posted messages, claiming that "His (I'm assuming Rockys) latest thing" was that she had to do 10 push ups every time she "fucked up?"

Sounds charming if that is the case.
 

Nivash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
I figured this might be of interest: the first interrogation protocol with the victim. I'll translate the first section before the police follows up with questions. I'll call the guy V for victim because I don't like outing people.

V is at MAX hamburgers at Hötorget. V's friend walks away to a few African guys. This took place outside MAX. V's friend was going to ask the African guys something, but V didn't know what. After a while, V couldn't find his friend and walked over to the African guys to ask where his friend went. The guys spoke English. A large, fat guy pushed him away. V asked again where his friend went and the large, fat guy grabbed him by the neck and pulled him from the ground, He then pushed V. When he pulled V up, he also grabbed the headphones V had around his neck and crushed them so they broke and threw hem away. The headphones probably ended up on a roof or something like that, V couldn't see them anymore. Maybe they ended up on the roof of MAX.

The guys walked away after this, and V followed in order to get his headphones back. [V shows the interrogator the route they took]. When V describes the events at Apelbegsgatan, behind the Adidas store, V says that he asked for his headphones back in English, the fat one answered "Don ́t follow me".There was a girl too, who was filming. V thinks she was filming live.They were 4-5-6 people in total. 2 of the guys were holding glass bottles. V repeatedly said "I am not a bad guy, I am a good guy!". V got assaulted behind the Adidas store. V describes that it went incredibly quickly. He ended up on the ground, 5 people were assaulting him. They hit him with glass, the kicked him, he curled up into a ball. V held his face with his arms and lay on his stomach.p on the ground. V says there were 3-4 girls who witnessed the event, V asked the girls to call the police after they broke his headphones outside MAX. V says they did call the police after he got assaulted. The girls apparently knew these guys, they said they were famous, singers and artists. They said a name but V doesn't remember which. After the police and ambulance arrived, V went to the hospital. V says he'd been at MAX the previous day and thought he recognized one of the guys. He'd told the police but they'd answered that it wasn't the same guy.


It's obviously not a neutral account. We know V didn't get the headphones tossed on the roof of MAX and he's not forthcoming about hitting back . But I think it's really interesting that he wanted the police called. And really, really interesting that he apparently claims he didn't know who ASAP Rocky was. Which sounds totally plausible, based on how he describes things above.
 
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Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,571
Posters in this thread serve as another reminder why I'm glad my grandparents didnt emigrate to the US.

Some very strange notions of street justice being preached in here. Some of you posters are showing your arses caping for a guy who deserves jail time.
 

airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,644
Charleston, SC
1. If you're talking about ASAP Bari, Rocky and basically everyone in the ASAP group have outted him, and he plead guilty for it. ASAP Rocky specifically doesn't even communicate with Bari anymore I'm prettys ure.
2/3. To be fair they also threw their headphones right at their bodyguard and then continued to follow him for what seems like hours around sweden.

Ian Connor though....
 

zon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,425
So many posters showing their asses in this thread. 🚮

I wonder if it's a result of being indoctrinated with American exceptionalism, if it's celeb worship, a mix of both or something entirely different.