As the streaming industry booms, Microsoft's Mixer remains dead in the water

[shadowhaxor]

Facebook gaming EXPLODED, goddamn, can any console even stream natively to it?

Can't say I'm surprised of Mixer, I never thought their strategy to buy streamers would win over communities.

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Nope, you still need a 3rd party app to stream to Facebook. But the big difference between Facebook Gaming and Mixer is that FB has been pushing the service at every gaming event they attended. Or, was. When they first showed up at PAX East 2007 and every year after, they went in hard.

 

[dom]

If it wasn't for this pandemic, that would have been negative growth instead of being flat.
The player is the only redeeming quality of mixer. Everything else is subpar. Mixer does have the low latency mode but it needs a unique encoder.

 

[Thorn]

Who knew bribing popular streamers to play on your garbage platform was a losing strategy?

 

[smurfx]

Far better video quality and lower latency for interaction.

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this has never really mattered for mainstream appeal. most people are happy watching youtube videos at 480p. if MS wants more people streaming they need to offer far more money per ads or subs. maybe some of those streamers will hit it big and bring people on board. one or two major streamers ain't gonna do anything for you.

 

[RingRang]

It's kind of tragic to think what kinds of games Microsoft could have funded with that money they paid to Ninja and Shroud.

 

[Amauri14]

Honestly, that's not surprising as when they sing those exclusivities deal with those streamers the only grow that were going to have was that of the people that were already following them. In other words, whatever grow they got probably happened the day those streamers came, and then it just plateau.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

It's kind of tragic to think what kinds of games Microsoft could have funded with that money they paid to Ninja and Shroud.

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I have no idea on the structure of Microsoft but I doubt XBOX and Mixer share budgets and funding.

 

[Remark]

You can watch YouTube/Twitch/Facebook streams on most smart TVs. Mixer app? Nope.

They've really half-assed everything about their Mixer push.

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I wouldn't say half-assed everything. I think the platform itself is perfectly fine and they are trying but that doesn't excuse the lack of availability on other platforms.

Not compatible with Fire TV/Sticks, Apple TV, Android TV, Smart TV's (LG, Samsung etc.), and even like PS4. Literally the only way to access is via mobile, PC and Xbox One. They kinda fucked themselves from the beginning with that tbh.

 

[Cactuar]

Mixer is not available on PS4. I know I (and perhaps some 100 million or so others) heavily use my PS4 to watch streaming apps.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Oof at those growth numbers. Insane how big Facebook gaming is.




It's not a bad strategy on paper. Facebook has done it too.

Maybe the need to make an account is too much of a barrier vs Facebook where most people already have one.




It looks like in terms of hours watched they're behind too. Unless you mean a different metric?

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Its blurry but they look like commas, so I'm reading that as 37,000 vs 461.

 

[shadowhaxor]

Who knew bribing popular streamers to play on your garbage platform was a losing strategy?

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I dunno if I'd call it bribing. I don't see the difference here vs signing an athlete to a team. Sure, you want to win the championship, but there's zero guarantees that's going to happen. It's just signing those streamers seems to be the only thing they did. Everything else stopped, and then they laid off a bunch of people.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

I dunno if I'd call it bribing. I don't see the difference here vs signing an athlete to a team. Sure, you want to win the championship, but there's zero guarantees that's going to happen. It's just signing those streamers seems to be the only thing they did. Everything else stopped, and then they laid off a bunch of people.

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It's more like the transformation of an open arena into a more closed off one. Like signing players is normal in some fields of sport, but not everything in society is like that, so people won't necessarily be happy about something that wasn't like that slowly becoming something that is.

 

[Mirage]

It's more like the transformation of an open arena into a more closed off one. Like signing players is normal in some fields of sport, but not everything in society is like that, so people won't necessarily be happy about something that wasn't like that slowly becoming something that is.

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Well part of the deal for partnered twitch streamers is that they aren't allowed to stream on other places.

 

[MrTired]

I have no idea on the structure of Microsoft but I doubt XBOX and Mixer share budgets and funding.

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Pretty sure, they do. Not sure if it was Matt or Mike Ybarra that confirmed this previously.

Edit found it

I mean, Mixer does take resources to operate and fund, and those resources come from the Xbox division at MS. If they were not used on Mixer, they probably would, in fact, be used elsewhere on MS's gaming efforts.

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[Windu]

I'm glad they finally allowed you to remove any trace of it from the Xbox dashboard. The only thing I found it good for was using it to share my gameplay to a family member, the low latency made it so voice chat was in sync with it. Nice for someone guiding you through a game configuration menu or something. Mixer's actual content though? Not worth my time.

Isn't MS kinda like Google? They do well on their main thing, but fails on their new things. Apart from the Surface.

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Nah, Microsoft is a very diverse business. Google I think is mainly just advertising. Although that may be beginning to change with their enterprise cloud offerings growing.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Pretty sure, they do. Not sure if it was Matt or Mike Ybarra that confirmed this previously.

Edit found it

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Well that's.............................................................................................................................unfortunate.

 

[Einchy]

Shroud and Ninja must be itching for their contracts to be over so they can go back to Twitch.

My boy Shroud is only pulling 3k right now, meanwhile I'm watching someone eat dinner with their family over at Twitch and they're pulling 5.4k.

On Twitch all of these people are beating him in viewership.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Shroud and Ninja must be itching for their contracts to be over so they can go back to Twitch.

My boy Shroud is only pulling 3k right now, meanwhile I'm watching someone eat dinner with their family over at Twitch and they're pulling 5.4k.

On Twitch all of these people are beating him in viewership.

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There is someone who rebroadcasts his old VODs on Twitch that gets more viewers than he's pulling at Mixer. The one night they were both live at the same time. Shroud barely had 5k and the rebroadcast channel had almost 10k.

 

[Watership]

mixer is atrocious, so i am not surprised.

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What's atrocious about it? Technically, it has been better than Twitch in every way.

 

[Villein]

if they payed ppl to watch it with the money they wasted on Ninja, they'd see bigger growth

 

[Solace]

If they really want success, they shoul rebrand and relaunch that shit.
Mixer is a disaster of a name.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

Facebook Gaming can be set up so that your livestream basically just looks like any other random post on your friends' feeds, right? I feel like that's a huge advantage it's going to have given the huge user base of Facebook... Like, your friends can already sorta be watching without even clicking on anything, and if they find a quick glimpse of something they like about what you're doing, they can click and fully commit to it. I don't think any other services show a live feed of what's happening RIGHT NOW like Facebook can, even though you can post a link and a description about it to try and entice people to click the link.

And maybe the growth is also counted when people just happen to scroll and stop on that stream for just a tiny bit — I wonder if that's counted as a "view."

 

[signal]

They should just get a bunch of bots or fake the metrics some other way for a while 🤷‍♂️

Also it's funny when one of the fake Shroud accounts on Twitch appear and within 2 hours they ave more viewers than like all of Mixer lol

 

[curiouscharles]

I mean, it's not surprising, is it?

Have gamers, as a community, ever responded positively to a new service entering the scene when they're 100% unnecessary?

I have nothing against Mixer but there is zero wrong with Twitch - was there ever any reason for streamers to move there, or viewers at that?

 

[curiouscharles]

*double post :/

 

[Tapiozona]

Mixer will never compete because they don't have an alternative to Twitch Prime subscriptions. The majority of subs on twitch come from there and new streamers won't go to other platforms because they know there's infinitely more people willing to sub for free than use their own money. Viewers also won't go there because they can't sub for free

If they were smart they would offer the same type of thing using gamepass and office 365 subscriptions to give fee subs on Mixer

 

[Sensei]

The people that made the Ninja and Shroud decisions don't understand how streaming works. Its great for Ninja and Shroud to get those checks for making the switch to their platform though.

A huge part of sticking to Twitch has to do with curating your followed channels and swapping over to those when one streamer is done. If you follow a bunch of streamers on Twitch but still like Shroud or Ninja the most... you're probably going to stay on Twitch due to your curated list outnumbering them. Doing anything else is an (admittedly mild) inconvenience.

The way things work today... those little inconveniences do add up. Yeah it's just entering a different website into an address bar, but that's still too much to ask for when you've got a ton of perfectly good entertainment on Twitch.

 

[monketron]

Remember when Microsoft finally gave up on Groove and reluctantly went with the market leader in Spotify? I sense some deja vu coming.

 

[Scottoest]

Who knew bribing popular streamers to play on your garbage platform was a losing strategy?

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"Bribing"? They signed streamers away to the exact same kinds of contracts that Twitch signs streamers to. Do you call free agency in professional sports bribery too?

Mixer isn't a garbage platform. In many ways it's actually superior to Twitch. It's just the Facebook case of Twitch being "good enough" as the established giant, for people not to bother switching, and Mixer not having much actual penetration into places people go to watch gaming, like YouTube, or even any console but the Xbox.

 

[nekkid]

Twitch obviously has the market penetration, and the other two are built of platforms for other stuff with massive traffic that can just redirect and advertise to streams.

Like, if you follow one game dev or publisher on Facebook, it's just going to throw gaming streams into your feed.

Not really much they can to tbh, short of doing the same on LinkedIn.... It's a good platform, but any extra features are pointless - people just want to stream stuff.

 

[Duxxy3]

I wonder if there's a way for Microsoft to get out of those streamer contracts.

 

[PedroRVD]

I like some replies here asking "what did they do wrong" or "what can they do?"

I feel the same. The service is amazing ; low latency is very very impressive ...even though I'm in Ecuador the lag is almost zero and quality is awesome. Also we have the ability to co-stream. Does Twitch have these features? I have not tried twitch in a long time but, in my experience, Mixer is the best streaming service. Of course it also is the least popular :(

What can they do? I don't really now.

Maybe embed to Facebook?

im starting to stream on Facebook because everybody has an account there... it is so easy to access and even on cell data the streams play very good.

but ... if I tell my friends "watch my Mario Kart Tournament on Mixer". When they have to open a new window for that AND make a new user to watch and comment ... they say "naaaaah". I would do the same.

So, forget about Ninja... what did they do wrong?

edit: I just read all the thread ... somebody already mentioned some excellent points.

 

[Smokey_Run]

I wonder if there's a way for Microsoft to get out of those streamer contracts.

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It's not worth it. Terminating contracts because someone didn't hit a target number would burn bridges with that community.

 

[Detective]

Ever since MS introduced streaming on Xbox I used to stream every game I play , several hours, all kind of games without any response or a single person except for people from my friends list who just stops by and say hi. Nothing. One day I tried twitch, and I got lots of views, it was strange for me. People were communicating and engaging. So I tried again and more came, and more and more.

That was almost 5 months ago, Now I have almost 1000 followers, close to 9000 views and not bad subscribers too.

I would have been in better place if I used twitch from the beginning.

 

[opticalmace]

Its blurry but they look like commas, so I'm reading that as 37,000 vs 461.

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They use commas instead of periods in some parts of the world. It's 37 vs 461, see the original source: https://blog.streamelements.com/sta...s-top-the-charts-music-is-having-d503aad6c2e7

 

[TheRed]

I don't watch streams too often but when I've tried mixer on my phone it is really shitty with playback always stopping even when I'm on my home wi do and twitch and everything else works perfectly.

So yeah mobile mixer at least seems like a big downgrade from anything else to me.

 

[ghibli99]

Mixer has always seemed like Google+ to me. It may very well have better or more interesting features (does it?), but everyone is already well-embedded elsewhere (Facebook vs. Google+), so what is the incentive to move when everyone you watch (and everyone you know/hang out with) are already on the existing platforms?

 

[Hidden One]

Microsoft really paid a streamer 20-30 mil thinking it would just make people leave twitch over one game.

 

[Windu]

Remember when Microsoft finally gave up on Groove and reluctantly went with the market leader in Spotify? I sense some deja vu coming.

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idk I suspect they will stick with it. Video Streaming is a crucial part of games marketing these days. Good to have your own solution if you can. Mixer will never be anything big though. I'm sure Microsoft has plenty of unused servers in their datacenters that need to do something. Might as well host video streaming. Not that big of a cost to them.

 

[Deleted member 47654]

That's not really the reason though, since more people watched livestreams on YouTube and Facebook. Granted those are also well known sites with a built in userbase but people are still watching live content on those platforms.

As a new streamer, its actually where I get the most views.

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Just dont get your hopes up, Facebook is VERY arbitrary, they will cut your reach for whatever reason, if you dont pay for ads, thats one reason and its very offensive for them, there is a reddit post explaining it better, i have experienced it myself.
From 600 viewers playing GTAV to 4500 and then down to 120, in the same stream. Next week i struggled with 20 viewers per stream.

Just try to use facebook to farm Twitch followers, thats the best you can do before they cut your reach.
Link to the reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/d6bjif/a_message_to_anyone_thinking_of_streaming_on/

 

[Ukumio]

Just dont get your hopes up, Facebook is VERY arbitrary, they will cut your reach for whatever reason, if you dont pay for ads, thats one reason its very offensive for them, there is a reddit post explaining it, i have experienced it myself.
Just try to use facebook to farm Twitch followers, thats the best you can do.
Link to the reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/d6bjif/a_message_to_anyone_thinking_of_streaming_on/

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I multistream, I started out on Twitch but wasn't seeing growth so I just stream on Twitch, Mixer, Youtube, and Facebook all at once. I see no reason to stop until I get get affiliate or partner (though that's not really my goal and with my current growth don't see it happening anytime soon anyway).

 

[Parenegade]

Mixer is a platform with a terrible name and a bunch of issues that it shouldn't have. You should have working clips, VODs, and cool features you can't get on Twitch. Instead it has none of that and it looks worse. It's a worse Twitch.

 

[Deleted member 47654]

I multistream, I started out on Twitch but wasn't seeing growth so I just stream on Twitch, Mixer, Youtube, and Facebook all at once. I see no reason to stop until I get get affiliate or partner (though that's not really my goal).

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Thats good, as i said, Facebook is best if used to farm twitch followers, you can make easy money on facebook (i earned like 600 dlls in my first 2 months there) but if facebook notices that you are doing good without paying for ads... well, you can say your business goodbye, as i did, lol.

 

[Ukumio]

Mixer is a platform with a terrible name and a bunch of issues that it shouldn't have. You should have working clips, VODs, and cool features you can't get on Twitch. Instead it has none of that and it looks worse. It's a worse Twitch.

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It has both clips and VODs (though I think Clips is in beta and currently partner only until it exits beta). As for cool features it has almost no delay (if using the right software), though Twitch has caught up somewhat (Mixer is still faster in my experience), Mixer also allows streamers to get paid via viewer interactions without having to reach certain milestones like on Twitch or Youtube. There's also actual viewer interaction (which sadly mostly gets used for soundboards or chat commands but can be used for much more).

I understand why Mixer isn't doing as well as the other three (Twitch was "first" and went for ages with no real competition, Youtube and Facebook had an established brand and userbase before jumping into streaming), but let's not act like Mixer isn't as feature rich as the other three.

Microsoft hasn't really been taking advantage of the fact that they have and make games. They demoed viewers being able to impact a streamers Minecraft games, but besides a handful of games like the Darwin Project taking advantage of it, we haven't really being seeing any first party's do anything with audience interaction, probably as a result of Microsoft's hands-off style with first party studios.

Still, imagine if you had a Mixer mode in Gears 5 which allowed viewers to switch your weapons for Sparks (Mixer's free currency) or have the audience dictate what season it was in Forza Horizon 4. There's a lot that could be done with this feature that's not really being done. And I'm sure the developers at XGS could think of much better ideas.

I do think that a major reason its so hard for viewers to adopt Mixer, besides the fact that they have to go to a different site/app, is the fact that they don't have a native app on all the platforms that Twitch or even Youtube do. Now, why is there no Mixer app on PS4? Seems like it'd be logical for Microsoft to want Mixer on all platforms where gamers are.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Ninja robbed these fuckers blind.

 

[bloodyroarx]

Ninja, Shroud and Gothalion set them and their kids up for life with the deals they signed but yeah viewership isn't there.

Shorud and Goth were my go-to's on twitch when they were on and now I barely know they exist.

 

[ApeEscaper]

Wait what? Facebook gaming? That's a thing?

People streaming on Facebook and those stats seem good? Whaaat

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Mixer simply came into the market too late. The market was already in total lockdown with Twitch and Youtube emerging as the two dominant forces. There is no room for a third.

There's nothing MS can do now to unseat the two giants. It's too late. Exactly the same problem that Windows Phone had.

First Mover Advantage is almost impossible to defeat; but when you're third, fourth, or even fifth!? Forget it.

Disruption is your only hope at that point.

 

[ElBoxy]

4. They don't advertise as much as they should. In a sea of Twitch, YouTube, and even Facebook, they could be doing more. But they aren't. The fact that a number of you are saying all they have is Ninja and Shroud is proof. There's a number of high-quality streamers on there, but outside of those two, you wouldn't know it.

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I don't think there's much a difference between Mixer's community and other stream communities to advertise why it's unique. I guess you could say it's a more healthy and nicer community but sadly that doesn't move the needle. And neither does the better stream quality.

It's kind of tragic to think what kinds of games Microsoft could have funded with that money they paid to Ninja and Shroud.

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Everyone likes to imagine this when it would have more than likely gone towards more Xbox controllers.

 

[Riversands]

If i were microsoft, i would rebrand the name. The name literally doesnt sell. I dont associate the name mixer with game streaming, it is not tongue friendly