As the Planet Cooks, Climate Stalls as a Political Issue

[Jaymageck]

Sorry but this is irresponsible. Most people in this country will not be living in The apocalypse. To tell people to not plan for their future is simply irresponsible.

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I live in Toronto, Canada for what it's worth. I also still put some money away. But I'm increasingly convinced that putting it away is sheer stupidity.

People who think they're in safe areas are living in delusion.

As millions upon millions of climate refugees flee inhospitable areas, the knock-on effect will impact every country, every livable city on earth. Everywhere will have to deal with a massive influx of population.

Our current societal structures surviving that will be nothing short of miraculous.

That is the future we're going to see unfold in our lifetime.

 

[PennyStonks]

Literally violence? Stop.

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Hello Crypto Nut.

Violence: An unpleasant or destructive natural force

 

[Deleted member 43]

Fuck. Joe. Manchin. If Democrats manage to pick up two Senate seats, if I were Chuck Schumer I'd tell him to fuck off and kick him out of the caucus. He's going to lose in 2024 anyways to some WV Super MAGAt anyways, even if he does switch parties. We only need him now because of federal judges

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Manchin is actually popular with republicans in WV. There's a reason why he's been elected statewide multiple times in super red WV as a democrat.

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Yep. He's actually one of the most popular senators in the country.

 

[Warhawk4Ever]

Hello Crypto Nut.

Violence: An unpleasant or destructive natural force

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Hello Crypto Nut.

Violence: An unpleasant or destructive natural force

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Perhaps you should give up your electronics, and stop posting on forums since that is using energy and resources. Stop taking part in violence.

 

[PennyStonks]

Perhaps you should give up your electronics, and stop posting on forums since that is using energy and resources. Stop taking part in violence.

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I'm deeply troubled by the harm I do to the life on this planet. Because I'm not a greedy scammer

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Yep. He's actually one of the most popular senators in the country.

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It doesn't really matter as he has a 90+% chance of losing in 2024 regardless.

 

[Warhawk4Ever]

I'm deeply troubled by the harm I do to the life on this planet. Because I'm not a greedy scammer

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Apparently not enough to stop doing it.

 

[PennyStonks]

Apparently not enough to stop doing it.

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You are telling me to kill myself. I am telling you to stop actively harming shit

 

[B-Dubs]

How about both of you shut up?

 

[Deleted member 43]

It doesn't really matter as he has a 90+% chance of losing in 2024 regardless.

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Based on…?

 

[Deleted member 5865]

Sorry but this is irresponsible. Most people in this country will not be living in The apocalypse. To tell people to not plan for their future is simply irresponsible.

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Most people in this country are neither wealthy nor do they live in states with solid weather. Is there a good reason to think that the places that suck now won't *really* suck next year, and the years after?

 

[Idde]

Not to downplay this, but the problem isn't just the US. The way the world economy/society operates is just wholly unsustainable as it currently is, and even though the EU does better than most, the world at large continues to drag its feet because short-term profit for individuals and shareholders is consistently put before all else.

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No, I know. And as someone living in the Netherlands, a first world country, I'm well aware we're screwing other countries over as well. But I can donate to Dutch charities all I want to sue Shell to change their ways. I can donate all I want to organizations that plant trees. I can vote for the greenest party my country has time and time and time and time and...

But because there's an asshole (well, more assholes, of course Manchin isn't the only one) on the other side of the world who decides him lining his pockets is more important than the literal fate of the planet, I'm now seriously reconsidering having kids. And though that's just the reality, and the Netherlands are far from innocent in doing this...it's still very much fucked up.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Guess I'll drown, fry, and die. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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That's called boiling

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Based on…?

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He won by 3 points in an incredible Dem environment in 2018 and West Virginia will likely move even further to the right between 2018 and 2024?

 

[Deleted member 43]

He won by 3 points in an incredible Dem environment in 2018 and West Virginia will likely move even further to the right between 2018 and 2024?

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That doesn't seem like nearly enough evidence to put him at a 90% chance of losing two years out. As of now, he's in about as good a place as he could possibly be.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

If there were money to be lobbied to our politicians or their lives actually hinged on doing the right thing, we would've hit our carbon goals tomorrow.

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I think the idea that our politicians are bought off is somewhat overstated, and that it makes us complacent. The worse problem is that politicians like Joe Manchin actually believe in fossil fuels, and the voting public feels no great urgency. If it was so easy to buy a Manchin or Sinema, the money is out there, and solving the problem would be easier. Convincing the public that this matters more than their pocketbook issues is the heaviest lift.

 

[Fallout-NL]

The stupid thing is those fuckers could keep making money if they saved the planet first.

As someone who doesn't even live in the fucking US, thanks Joe Manchin.

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.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I really don't think anything is gonna happen until a big part of our nation floods and even then it's going to be a bunch of "this is just a cycle BRO"

 

[Cudpug]

Anecdotally, I see the following sort of responses:

- people not believing this heat is anything to do with climate change

- people accepting it is evidence of climate change but denying humans have any part to play

- people making no connection whatsoever between climate change and the issues we are seeing around the world, and instead just thinking this stuff is happening...just 'cause

- folks in the UK saying "bring on climate change if it means we can get a tan and a BBQ"

Honestly I think until this shit is staring people in the face in a really obvious way (mass flooding on their doorstep, food shortages, water shortages etc.) most people are going to ignore what's going on - after all, all these earthquakes and wildfires and such are happening halfway across the world, so why should we worry? 🙄

 

[Bold One]

And another fun tidbit I just saw

Our empty oceans: Scots team’s research reveals loss of plankton in equatorial Atlantic provoking fears of potentially catastrophic loss of life

An Edinburgh-based research team fears plankton, the tiny organisms that sustain life in our seas, has all but been wiped out after spending two years collecting water samples from the Atlantic.

www.sundaypost.com

The very foundation of the marine food chain is nearly gone, but clearly everything is fine.

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Aren't those the plankton that make most of our oxygen? 🙃

 

[Hey Please]

I always felt like there would be great opportunities for work/careers doing things that help our planet (conservation, planting things, etc.).

We can't just keep doing things for their dollar value...we're all going to die if we keep chasing coin.

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Interesting you mention this as I am currently in a program that, alongside its current applications, may be useful in the aftermath of sea level rise and all that entails. It may sound cynical but I find it to be more realistic given how slowly things are progressing in politics (when they are "progressing") versus the rapid change in global climate.

 

[Idde]

The stupid thing is those fuckers could keep making money if they saved the planet first.



.

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I'd hope Rutte gets the use of a healthy planet to make money. But seeing how his government literally has to be sued into doing the right thing, I'm not really too sure.

Perhaps we could send Jesse Klaver over to talk to Manchin?

 

[Nola]

The sad irony is that with the economy and fuel prices the way they are, there almost couldn't be a more perfect storm for people to recognize the danger of our current ways and drastically invest to change course, instead, we are doing the exact opposite and frighteningly doubling down.

 

[Chrome Hyena]

people lose their minds over higher gas prices (even on ERA), let alone doing all the shit we need to do to mitigate the looming climate crisis.

future generations gonna find out though.

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Future generations will look back at our time like we were barbaric fools who knew we were dying but did nothing.

There will be entire libraries written about why their ancestors didn't rise up once they realized the truth, why were they so braindead etc .

 

[Jaychrome91]

As someone living in Florida: Guess I'll fry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Yeah, we frying in Florida right now lol.

 

[Greenpaint]

Aren't those the plankton that make most of our oxygen? 🙃

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We have satellites and shit that can reliably detect these things. If there is a dramatic change believe me it will not go unnoticed.

Timing of ocean plankton blooms to shift with global warming

Global warming is directly impacting the ocean's net primary production (NPP) at the base of the food web as well as the seasonal timing of plankton blooms, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change.

phys.org

Here are some blooming imaged from earlier this spring:

Springtime phytoplankton bloom in the Atlantic Ocean

Today's Image of the Day from NASA Earth Observatory features a phytoplankton bloom off the mid-Atlantic coast

www.earth.com

Brilliant Color in the Black Sea

As spring 2022 turned the page to summer, phytoplankton turned the seawater from dark to vivid.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

In fact, here is some data of OVERGROWTH causing some issues:

https://www.eumetsat.int/deoxygenation-impacts-marine-life-benguela

Effects we are having on plankton are not fully known and such we DO need to be worried about them and keep a very close eye. But it's not time for a red alert quite yet.

 

[Lobster Roll]

Perhaps you should give up your electronics, and stop posting on forums since that is using energy and resources.

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Good to see you back, homie.

 

[Gr8one]

And another fun tidbit I just saw

Our empty oceans: Scots team’s research reveals loss of plankton in equatorial Atlantic provoking fears of potentially catastrophic loss of life

An Edinburgh-based research team fears plankton, the tiny organisms that sustain life in our seas, has all but been wiped out after spending two years collecting water samples from the Atlantic.

www.sundaypost.com

The very foundation of the marine food chain is nearly gone, but clearly everything is fine.

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We just had a thread closed about this specific article because the study the article is sourcing wasn't peer-reviewed, and the Sunday Post is a tabloid, I believe.

edit: beaten like an egg going into my omlette.

 

[Charpunk]

Gotta love how people continue doing what's only best for them and not actually doing the right thing. Fuck manchin, dude has always been the worst.

 

[Nepenthe]

I think the idea that our politicians are bought off is somewhat overstated, and that it makes us complacent. The worse problem is that politicians like Joe Manchin actually believe in fossil fuels, and the voting public feels no great urgency. If it was so easy to buy a Manchin or Sinema, the money is out there, and solving the problem would be easier. Convincing the public that this matters more than their pocketbook issues is the heaviest lift.

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Manchin directly gets money from the coal lobby though. How much that man genuinely believes in fossil fuels and how much he is putting on a show is impossible to separate, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

 

[Blader]

It's not that corporations have bought the government. There is a lot of political will within govt for significant climate action. The problem is twofold: there are just enough people in the right places to impede it (two, but really 52, senators + 6 justices) and, more problematically, it's just not enough of a motivating issue for voters. Large majorities of Americans believe climate change and believe we should be doing something to mitigate it, but it's not the primary driver for why they vote or who they vote for.

Manchin directly gets money from the coal lobby though. How much that man genuinely believes in fossil fuels and how much he is putting on a show is impossible to separate, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

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It's not just that he gets money from the coal lobby; his family fortune is in coal! Even if you took out the lobbyists, he still has a personal financial motive to promote fossil fuels and stall climate action.

 

[B-Dubs]

It's not that corporations have bought the government. There is a lot of political will within govt for significant climate action. The problem is twofold: there are just enough people in the right places to impede it (two, but really 52, senators + 6 justices) and, more problematically, it's just not enough of a motivating issue for voters. Large majorities of Americans believe climate change and believe we should be doing something to mitigate it, but it's not the primary driver for why they vote or who they vote for.


It's not just that he gets money from the coal lobby; his family fortune is in coal! Even if you took out the lobbyists, he still has a personal financial motive to promote fossil fuels and stall climate action.

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And even beyond that, coal is basically West Virginia's whole economy. AKA, the state who's interests he's supposed to be representing.

You and I might argue it's in their best interests to actually have a planet in 20 years, but unfortunately the people of that state don't really see it our way. So they elect people who push coal and fossil fuels.

 

[mbpm]

I think this planet is about done, we need to flip it over to get the other side

 

[Lobster Roll]

And even beyond that, coal is basically West Virginia's whole economy. AKA, the state who's interests he's supposed to be representing.

You and I might argue it's in their best interests to actually have a planet in 20 years, but unfortunately the people of that state don't really see it our way. So they elect people who push coal and fossil fuels.

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I know the ship has left the port on this topic a long time ago, but it makes me wonder if West Virginia had made efforts decades ago to embrace green energy or nuclear energy that there would still be plenty of work for its people, but in different forms of energy production.

 

[IneptEMP]

Us in Minnesota keep winning. Wonder if our state will have to deal with climate refugees in the future.

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Among the most bizarre posts I've seen on this site

 

[Lobster Roll]

Among the most bizarre posts I've seen on this site

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The Minnesota winning part is weird, but there's a very real possibility that people will be abandoning their houses in areas that are inhospitable (seeing as nobody would a house in that situation) and fleeing north. This could easily lead to housing crises as many people in every municipality treat home ownership as something with expected ROI and consistently vote to ensure that affordable, multi-family housing is not built near them. There could very well be millions of people looking for housing in northern states if it becomes impossible to live in southern states.

 

[B-Dubs]

I know the ship has left the port on this topic a long time ago, but it makes me wonder if West Virginia had made efforts decades ago to embrace green energy or nuclear energy that there would still be plenty of work for its people, but in different forms of energy production.

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The big issue is it's literally asking almost everyone in the state to swap jobs with no guarantee they'll get another, especially one that pays as well as theirs's did, when they go looking. You'd pretty much have to guarantee jobs to get it done and it's not really something that can be done short of just turning West Virginia into a state that does nothing but build military vehicles and even if you did that, you'd still have to spend billions on new powerplants to replace all of the old ones.

Even beyond the obvious corruption issues at play here, and they are obvious, it's an issue of it being hard to get people behind substantially disrupting their status quo when you can't promise a positive outcome.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Manchin directly gets money from the coal lobby though. How much that man genuinely believes in fossil fuels and how much he is putting on a show is impossible to separate, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

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I would say that it matters because when we tell ourselves that we only lose because our ostensible allies are taking bribes, it means we aren't addressing the real problem, which is that no one, either in leadership or among voters, actually prioritizes climate change above issues like healthcare, racism, real wage growth, protecting democracy, etc. It's a second-tier priority even for most people on the left. If we mean what we say, then those other issues should become second-tier, and climate should be the number one. But we don't. At best we'll argue that we have to do all of them, which may be true but which undermines the specific urgency on climate change to the median voter.

 

[Lobster Roll]

The big issue is it's literally asking almost everyone in the state to swap jobs with no guarantee they'll get another, especially one that pays as well as theirs's did, when they go looking. You'd pretty much have to guarantee jobs to get it done and it's not really something that can be done short of just turning West Virginia into a state that does nothing but build military vehicles and even if you did that, you'd still have to spend billions on new powerplants to replace all of the old ones.

Even beyond the obvious corruption issues at play here, and they are obvious, it's an issue of it being hard to get people behind substantially disrupting their status quo when you can't promise a positive outcome.

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Yep, pretty much. It's like good luck convincing an entire state of people to roll the dice on not having a roof over their heads.

 

[Nepenthe]

I would say that it matters because when we tell ourselves that we only lose because our ostensible allies are taking bribes, it means we aren't addressing the real problem, which is that no one, either in leadership or among voters, actually prioritizes climate change above issues like healthcare, racism, real wage growth, protecting democracy, etc. It's a second-tier priority even for most people on the left. If we mean what we say, then those other issues should become second-tier. But we don't. At best we'll argue that we have to do all of them, which may be true but which undermines the specific urgency on climate change to the median voter.

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Being a voter who votes on multiple issues doesn't inherently undermine the urgency of any particular issue you are looking for in a candidate. I can fight for Roe v Wade and climate change at the same time.

Although, in general, I will also simultaneously argue that our political institutions and capitalism are simply not equipped to deal with an existential crisis in the first place and that, as with most of these big systemic issues, we are not going to vote ourselves into a merry future.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yep, pretty much. It's like good luck convincing an entire state of people to roll the dice on not having a roof over their heads.

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Keep in mind, it's possible to do over the longer term. You would need the state government to buy in over the course of a few decades though. You can see it kinda happening with the rise in programming jobs in the state, but for that you need an education (which you don't need to make comparable money mining coal) and this makes the inertia that much harder to overcome.

We absolutely need to do it, but anyone saying it's going to be easy is a liar.

 

[Lobster Roll]

Keep in mind, it's possible to do over the longer term. You would need the state government to buy in over the course of a few decades though. You can see it kinda happening with the rise in programming jobs in the state, but for that you need an education (which you don't need to make comparable money mining coal) and this makes the inertia that much harder to overcome.

We absolutely need to do it, but anyone saying it's going to be easy is a liar.

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That's kind of what I meant by "the ship left the port" on the topic earlier and that it's something that should've been slowly integrated decades ago. Getting these changes to happen in real time, in a time where we need rapid changes to our ways of life, just might not be possible. It feels like it's too late for West Virginia to make a change that will matter.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Being a voter who votes on multiple issues doesn't inherently undermine the urgency of any particular issue you are looking for in a candidate. I can fight for Roe v Wade and climate change at the same time.

Although, in general, I will also simultaneously argue that our political institutions and capitalism are simply not equipped to deal with an existential crisis in the first place and that, as with most of these big systemic issues, we are not going to vote ourselves into a merry future.

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Maybe the systems we've built will all fail. But assuming you can't succeed because the game is rigged is also a form of defeatism. Arguing that the voters can't be persuaded or that it doesn't matter if they can be (because Manchins will always be bought) sounds more like conceding to the apocalypse than realism to me.

 

[Xando]

People will prioritize what impacts their daily living situation the most. The sad truth is most people won't prioritize climate change until it's too late and they're directly affected by it (sometimes even that isn't enough).

Sucks but that's democracy for you.

 

[Dyle]

I know the ship has left the port on this topic a long time ago, but it makes me wonder if West Virginia had made efforts decades ago to embrace green energy or nuclear energy that there would still be plenty of work for its people, but in different forms of energy production.

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The math doesn't work out here, the amount of jobs in energy production for a low density rural state are nowhere near as large as a major mining industry, not even remotely close. WV's problem is just that on average it's cheaper to do pretty much everything in about 45 other states so there's little reason for capital to be spent there where it would be more effective somewhere else. It's one real, significant comparative advantage is mining and once that's gone there's nothing the state can realistically do to compete with cheaper, more populous, and better positioned states.

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

I fully believe that fire will fall from the sky regularly before the USA does anything about climate change

 

[Nepenthe]

Maybe the systems we've built will all fail. But assuming you can't succeed because the game is rigged is also a form of defeatism. Arguing that the voters can't be persuaded or that it doesn't matter if they can be (because Manchins will always be bought) sounds more like conceding to the apocalypse than realism to me.

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I'm not assuming anything. I'm just wise enough to know that as a Black woman, this country fundamentally wasn't built for me to freely exercise my rights as an American citizen from the ground up, and neither Republicans nor Democrats have been able to get a handle on this legacy of disenfranchisement because, largely, the country in general doesn't want my full participation. The Master's tools can't dismantle the Master's house. I don't vote for Democrats because I'm stupid enough to think that if I do so my life will be perfect. I vote for them to sorta kinda perform harm reduction, maybe, if they aren't completely fucking clueless. But if you think that somehow magically voting Democrats every two years will get our carbon footprint decreased in enough time to avoid the worst of what science has predicted, I mean, it's what it is.

 

[Deleted member 3208]

People will prioritize what impacts their daily living situation the most. The sad truth is most people won't prioritize climate change until it's too late and they're directly affected by it (sometimes even that isn't enough).

Sucks but that's democracy for you.

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After how polarized turned out to just wear face masks because of Covid, I don't have any hope humanity will do the right thing when it comes when temperatures get even more extreme than what is happening right now.

 

[Zorg1000]

It's crazy how many people will acknowledge all these climate events getting worse then turn around and claim climate change is a myth.

I swear I've had multiple conversations with family members and coworkers that went something like this:

"Doesn't it seem like every year there are more wildfires, droughts, heatwaves, hurricanes, blizzards, floods, etc?"

"Yeah, climate change is the real deal and it's only going to get worse."

"Pfft, climate change! You believe in that? It's just a media hoax to try and scare us."

"But you just listed a whole bunch of examples of climate changing."

"Well yeah but it's an ever changing planet, we have nothing to do with it."

"You don't think the massive amount of steel, asphalt & concrete we have put on the earth along with harmful gases in the atmosphere, plastic in the ocean and deforestation has any impact on the climate?"

From there they usually just go on a rant about how the media and politicians want to divide us.

 

[RoKKeR]

After how polarized turned out to just wear face masks because of Covid, I don't have any hope humanity will do the right thing when it comes when temperatures get even more extreme than what is happening right now.

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Yep, agreed. Had the same thought after just a few months of Covid and seeing how much apathy the general public has towards the well-being of others, there's no chance for any meaningful collective climate action.