my report finger is getting a workout tonight! (Instead of wasting my time arguing against people who are lying and obscuring their motives, I simply write a nice little message explaining the report to the mods. Much more satisfying.)
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As an anime fan, its unsettling/disturbing how many people defend lolicon
- Thread starter DragonSJG
- Start date
This is why the dub of Hensuki is pretty good, it takes the "seriousness" of the original and makes it into a joke, and thus tolerable. There's a line in an episode where a character says "wow, I didn't know you were into lolicon" in the original, but this was changed to "yikes, didn't know you was into reading pedo stuff" in the dub.
Like, pretty much all of them??
LMAO, it's kinda ridiculous to think about it, but that's almost literally how it is for so many little sister anime.
EDIT: I'll be fair, not all of them look like they're seven years old. But they're young enough.
That show is absolute fucking trash so good for you for telling him like it is.
Yeah lol. I don't really watch anime that much anymore, or for the last 5 years or so, but I started to watch that show on Netflix on a whim and holy shit I had to stop.
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing and Dismissing Concerns on the Sexualized Depiction of Minors
I like Loli's and I find that they are often cute, but would that count as setting myself up for a ban?
Some peeps really can't stand the fact, it's everywhere in terms of anime.
I wouldn't say it's 1:1 with pedophilia, at the slightest.
Some peeps really can't stand the fact, it's everywhere in terms of anime.
I wouldn't say it's 1:1 with pedophilia, at the slightest.
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OP
OP
MHA is not lolicon though, that's another topic about fanservice in general
I'd say the root cause of the issue in a lot of cultures is commoditization of youth and the fact that a lot of people were raised around people who believed anything animated was for children which then lets a medium go unchecked and cater to a very particular subset of people. Once these people are used to it they don't want to be told what they like is bad, the same way people who vote for certain things don't like to be told their choices aren't great and double down on them.
The problem at the moment is the permeation of this into other forms of media and the general acceptance of this growing - as if we didn't have enough trouble with predators already.
Commoditization of youth probably needs to end at this point when we live such long lives - the 10-20 period of your life isn't the greatest and the fact that we try to accentuate that by setting stories that primarily focus on that age group is part of the problem. You will see this problem in a medium where 28 is pretty much an old fart which is ironic in a country where 1 out of 5 people are over 70. Not saying that you shouldn't have stories that feature young people but it does need to move on from that as the key focus. Generally speaking, it does need to move on from that in most medium, but anime is probably more skewed than others.
The problem at the moment is the permeation of this into other forms of media and the general acceptance of this growing - as if we didn't have enough trouble with predators already.
Commoditization of youth probably needs to end at this point when we live such long lives - the 10-20 period of your life isn't the greatest and the fact that we try to accentuate that by setting stories that primarily focus on that age group is part of the problem. You will see this problem in a medium where 28 is pretty much an old fart which is ironic in a country where 1 out of 5 people are over 70. Not saying that you shouldn't have stories that feature young people but it does need to move on from that as the key focus. Generally speaking, it does need to move on from that in most medium, but anime is probably more skewed than others.
I don't think it's really seen as all that normal in Japan, and it's easy to get a skewed perspective looking in from the outside.
The Japanese economy has been in a recession since the 90's. This has been a factor in a downward shift of the average consumer's purchasing habits as people just become naturally more inclined to tighten their budgets. The otaku demographic is a glaring exception to this rule, whose entire lifestyle revolves around the consumption of media and merchandise. This has caused a feedback loop where it is seen as much more profitable to pander exclusively to the otaku demographic and their particular tastes rather than going for mass market appeal. And you get the inevitable flanderization of tropes alongside this which explains why this kind of shit has gotten more and more normalized in the medium.
User warned: backseat moderating
What's the angle here? If everyone who doesn't agree or questions OP's thesis gets banned, so it's just an echochamber thread with just a couple of people riding the line between not fully agreeing with OP while knowing what to not say to avoid a ban. If everyone agrees (and everyone who doesn't deserves a ban) then this should be locked after 3-5 pages as everything that could have been said has probably been said.
EDIT: Grammar
EDIT: Grammar
Yeah...like I watch a few anime YouTubers and it's weird how like when this stuff comes up they just go "yeah that's how it is..." or joke about it. Weird incest elements too. Like it's not vehement defense of it, but just a begrudging acceptance.
It goes to real life too. I was taking to a girl about how I felt uncomfortable watching Ranma because of underage nudity (though it's not as sexually suggestive as modern loli stuff) and she surprised me by just going "it's anime titties so who cares".
I guess there's kind of a point there but shows that go out of their way to sexualize little girls are weird.
It goes to real life too. I was taking to a girl about how I felt uncomfortable watching Ranma because of underage nudity (though it's not as sexually suggestive as modern loli stuff) and she surprised me by just going "it's anime titties so who cares".
I guess there's kind of a point there but shows that go out of their way to sexualize little girls are weird.
Well first off, the term "loli" is in and of itself sexual and gross, and I hate how ubiquitously it's used in describing every young girl in anime or manga. If you're calling a character a "loli," you're sexualizing them.
It's one thing to enjoy series about kids being hilarious or adorable, like Yotsubato, Barakamon, or Sweetness and Lightning. It's quite another thing to say you "like lolis."
As someone who regularly reads and watches MHA I can assure you that it is not. It's not even close actually.
I know you're banned already, but how far does "it's just a drawing" go?
Because iirc there was a case with a hentai artist getting C&D' because he was drawing X-23 from Logan.
Would you say it's a drawing as well? What's the limit?
The sad truth is the popularity of lolicon means even otherwise "safe" anime series tend to include a character that skirts dangerously close to the archetype.
It's been awhile since I read MHA but I can't think of any character that goes for that audience. I mean technically they're all underage but the main girl with the sex appeal (Momo?) at the very least acts mature and looks mature which is better than making the sex appeal character specifically physically and mentally immature.
It's actually why whenever I played the Person games I'd always go for the "class rep" type character when it came to dating because that feels the least creepy to me.
It's been awhile since I read MHA but I can't think of any character that goes for that audience. I mean technically they're all underage but the main girl with the sex appeal (Momo?) at the very least acts mature and looks mature which is better than making the sex appeal character specifically physically and mentally immature.
It's actually why whenever I played the Person games I'd always go for the "class rep" type character when it came to dating because that feels the least creepy to me.
It's sexualisation of a child, of course it's paedophilia. Do you know its banned in many countries because of this? This is what you get if you search loli in a Germany.
Has anyone here seen the Cannibal Cop documentary? It's a really great look at that sometimes hazy line between "taboo" fetish and real crime. It was about a guy who was into cannibal porn and he started to seemingly "plan" to kill and cook women, including doing actual research on their schedules and things like that. But he never actually directly acted on any of it and claimed it was still in the realm of sexual fantasy. I'm not convinced that the subject of that doc himself even really knew which side he fell on.
I don't think that everyone looking at incest porn wants to fuck their mom. Likewise, I'm totally able to believe that many/most people reading lolicon are not interested in real kids, and more focused on the taboo. But I also bet you that for many others that fixate on it, that line becomes blurry until they're looking at real CP. I get why people who fall into the former category might get really defensive, but they aren't recognizing the latter because they're mostly looking at themselves.
There's a pretty messy discussion to be had there. I think there's some truth to both sides of the argument, but the side that involves real kids being victimized seems to have more weight than the side that just wants to jerk off.
I don't think that everyone looking at incest porn wants to fuck their mom. Likewise, I'm totally able to believe that many/most people reading lolicon are not interested in real kids, and more focused on the taboo. But I also bet you that for many others that fixate on it, that line becomes blurry until they're looking at real CP. I get why people who fall into the former category might get really defensive, but they aren't recognizing the latter because they're mostly looking at themselves.
There's a pretty messy discussion to be had there. I think there's some truth to both sides of the argument, but the side that involves real kids being victimized seems to have more weight than the side that just wants to jerk off.
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The first step is to stop using terms like 'loli' and 'lolicon'. Call a spade a spade. 'Young girl' and literally 'young girl lover' a.k.a a pedo.
Honestly, there are people who basically think 'lolicon' isn't bad simply cos it's a "cuter" word. Call them what they are and they might twice promoting/defending it.
(and honestly I just find the use of the word 'loli' to describe young female character off putting)
Honestly, there are people who basically think 'lolicon' isn't bad simply cos it's a "cuter" word. Call them what they are and they might twice promoting/defending it.
(and honestly I just find the use of the word 'loli' to describe young female character off putting)
I ask the same thing whenever people start praising Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Character designs. Like, really dude? If a Western developer did this shit they would be canceled in five seconds.
Loli generally specifically refers to sexualised children, not just cute children, so I'm assuming you just think it means something it doesn't.
It's sexualisation of a child, of course it's paedophilia. Do you know its banned in many countries because of this? This is what you get if you search loli in a Germany.
This is what I get as the first result:
It is so creepy and can easily just kill any excitement/enjoyment I get from watching a show depending how bad it gets. I barely watch any anime nowadays.
Have to agree with all of this. It's hard to break such a feedback loop, especially if it's very profitable for the creators.
I hope the shift to streaming in general will change that dynamic because it allows for more diverse funding.
Why you even trying to justify it? Might not be 1:1 but it is pretty dam close.
Not really? Loli characters themselves dont mean they're specifically sexualized and I've seen a good lot of them be referred to in that sense. Sexualisation of lolis and lolicons being played off in anime as jokes and fanservice is the real problem, not liking loli characters in and of themselves.
Like for index, which has genuinely awful loli fanservice but there isnt any warning of that plastered on before giving a recommendation.
Just in case you're an idiot, "loli" doesn't mean girl. There are Japanese words that refer to girls of a young age. "Shoujo" (few female, as in female of few years), "onna no ko" (female child), "josei" (female gender). Some of these map closer than others but you can probably use them without any special implications.
"Loli" is not a native Japanese word. It comes from the title of a book which is written from the perspective of a pedophile that's trying to justify his actions. There is no reason why a normal person would use that to refer to kids.
There's nothing innately offensive about young girls in anime and manga. Young girls watch anime and read manga. They should be able to appear in it without issue. But there is something innately questionable the moment you start framing them as "lolis" instead of as girls.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time Made In Abyss gets discussed... I can overlook the people who say "yeah those parts suck, but if you get past them..." But way too often I get people telling me it's not a real issue, that it's okay the camera leers at naked children, that it's all 100% necessary to tell the story or, my personal favorite, obviously I'm the one with the gross mind. Because it's obviously totally innocent how they tie up the lead girl naked as a punishment in the first episode, or how the camera lingers on her with only her hair covering her chest (and only barely). Or how adults just stick their hands down the pants of kids to see if they are boys or not. If I'm seeing those things as gross, it's because my mind is too unpure!
The rationalizing is awful with that series.
The rationalizing is awful with that series.
No.
Having kids in an anime is fine.
Having Lolis, ie : sexualized little girls, is not.
Kids in anime are not always Lolis. Chihiro in Spirited away is a little girl in an anime but since she is not sexualized, she is not a Loli and therefore it's fine.
There's a difference. And the difference is that Lolis and people defending Lolis are fucking wrong.
Except Ive rather seen it proliferated more as a term for the characterss who are actually teen and above that look like more childlike, which there really isnt another term for, I feel its more the culture around lolis that has led to the word being inherently seen as bad when it works as a term or at least Ive seen the term constantly used in that context
Haaaaa....... I remember when I watched the anime's first couple of episodes, and then wanted to read the manga.
Boy... The author is fucked in the head. Dude, you created an amazing story, but why, WHY do you have to be a fucking pedo? I gave it up and never looked back.
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As someone who was planning on checking out Made in Abyss, Y'all scaring me with these vague descriptions
I've heard positive things about this series and only negative things here, and the only thing I was warned against was
I've heard positive things about this series and only negative things here, and the only thing I was warned against was
Some scene where the heroine gets her arm broken and where some person(?) turns into a monster
That really just tells you what sort of cultures you're hanging out in when girls are being referred to casually as if they're being nicknamed by pedophiles.
Honestly, I sometimes wonder how much of an influence chan culture has had on anime culture. 4chan was originally an anime board, and between its lax rules, its nihilistic bent leading it to belittle serious issues in the name of comedy, and its promotion of memes from hentai, it probably leads to people doing this sort of thing.
I don't know when and why people started to use "loli" to refer to non-sexualized girls but it sucks. It injects a whole ton of creepiness to something that would otherwise be benign. Maybe it comes from people expecting (or wanting) such things.
Made in Arbys author really likes to draw and sexualize girls that look/are under 10.
I hope this is enough info.
Yeah the use of the term to describe characters or animes where it doesn't actually apply is its own separate issue and it sucks. Because then when you try and explain that it's not the case or that the term is being applied incorrectly you can be potentially perceived as someone who is defending lolicon. When in reality you are just trying to make sure the term is used and applied correctly.
We just need to stop using the term entirely. Call it what it is. Pedophilia. It would save alot of time and confusion.
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I mean its just something Ive generally noticed from anime communities, kinda awkward to really call characters who arent really "girls" age wise girls, like say the uhhh pretty awful -loli- teacher aged 34 in index
Saying teacher that looks like a child constantly would sound more awkward, which is the kind of stuff Im referring to and where I see most folk not using it in any sexual sense at all but just because its a convenient word to use for it.
Lolicon is literally pedophilia, "loli" is an inherently sexual term, stop dressing it up as something else
Jesus fucking christ
I understand that it's prevalent throughout anime culture and how people try to use it, but it's still a term with origins that are tied to pedophilia. That is inescapable. Like, take a look at these words:
少女
女性
女の子
娘
ロリ
Notice how they all have a little stick figure that looks vaguely like a person - in one of them it's squeezed onto the left side of the character. Except for the last one. Which one do you think "loli" is?
The reason why the word is different is because the word is different.
Isn't this exactly the root of the problem? A pedophile word/descriptor has literally been normalized into normal anime community vocabulary and we can see the effects of the normalization of sexualizing little girls affecting the entire industry. It's a rotten problem.
Mmmhm, saw that anime highly recommended. Don't think I'm gonna watch any more of it with multiple scenes of literal children being strung up naked as a "gag" or one too many references to the little robot kid's dick. Sucks because the premise of the show is really interesting.
I find it funny that those people that defend loli porn also say stuff like "Boku no Pico is for pedophiles" or "Boku no Pico is disgusting". Not to say that it isn't... It really is. But it's really quite hypocritical, don't you think?