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Artifact |OT| Development Stopped

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RepairmanJack

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,096
TheYanger said:
You act like Garfield designed the game in a vacuum and Valve had nothing to do with it.

Who do you think more likely designed things like the progression system and pricing systems? The card game designer or the actual developers at valve.
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I mean, one has a history of monetization and creating a revenue cycle out of a game, and the other was talking up how much they were against it in pre interviews. There has to be some kind of coloration.

Would be much weirder for Valve to suddenly want to not be Valve for one specific game.
 
TheYanger

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,133
RepairmanJack said:
I mean, one has a history of monetization and creating a revenue cycle out of a game, and the other was talking up how much they were against it in pre interviews. There has to be some kind of coloration.

Would be much weirder for Valve to suddenly want to not be Valve for one specific game.
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They were pretty "valve" with this game, by digging their hands into every transaction that happens on the marketplace and providing you with no way to earn this stuff for free. They WANT you to think the marketplace is significantly better than the no trading adopted by their competitors because they get a cut of every single 'trade' (sale/buy) you make.
 
Heavenraiser

Heavenraiser

Member
Oct 27, 2017
45
TheYanger said:
They were pretty "valve" with this game, by digging their hands into every transaction that happens on the marketplace and providing you with no way to earn this stuff for free. They WANT you to think the marketplace is significantly better than the no trading adopted by their competitors because they get a cut of every single 'trade' (sale/buy) you make.
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At least it was cheaper, even in December/January, to get the full set compared to Hearthstone. I did some rough calculations/estimates back then and it was like 50% of the cost of the same amount of Hearthstone cards, the possibility to buy individual cards helped the game a lot in this aspect. Even though you would have some variance considering the popularity of the game and some other factors.
 
Tim

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
441
Yeah, I think the ticket system came from Valve. But the no f2p or progression definitely came from RG. Along with some of his other philosophies like no balance changes.
 

LatscherGnu

Member
Apr 23, 2018
197
TheYanger said:
They were pretty "valve" with this game, by digging their hands into every transaction that happens on the marketplace and providing you with no way to earn this stuff for free. They WANT you to think the marketplace is significantly better than the no trading adopted by their competitors because they get a cut of every single 'trade' (sale/buy) you make.
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I'm not saying the system was good, on the contrary, but "no way to earn this stuff for free" is just wrong. After covering the initial purchase of the game i added another 60€ to my steam wallet during the ~120h i played artifact by selling cards i earned in draft (first just duplicates and later everything that would sell when it was clear the ship was sinking) and i have more than 50 tickets sitting in my inventory still that i got from recycling the worthless 1c duplicates.

I bought other games with that money but i could've also invested in working towards a complete collection.

Just to clarify, that was money others had to spend so it was more like winning in poker than collecting cards like you do in other ccgs, horrible system, but it was very much possible.
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
So, whilst my deck isn't perfect, the dwindling player-base means I can't perfect it, or strategies related to it, as finding games is now actually taking too long for me, and staring at "Searching for a game" message isn't exactly interesting. At 414 hours in, I think I'm going to quit playing until there's more activity. Which is to say, when Valve refresh/reboot it, I'll be there Day 1, but for now... Eh.

Edit: My current (and for the next while final) main deck: https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJ...uIDEgVGVzdCAxIC0gQmxhY2svR3JlZW4gNDQgQ2FyZA__
 
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fertygo

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,554
Its the opposite for me, I always get angry at card games lately but auto battler game humbled me greatly.
 
Won

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,424
I thought we long established people love their RNG bullshit. Makes everyone a potential winner and no one ever gets truly outsmarted.

And then they get mad at RNG anyway.
 
ZeroX

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I'm sure there's some psychology behind it, like the arrows and OG Cheating Death feels like an unavoidable screw you (when in reality it isn't) while gacha/reroll has that one more chance I'm still in this kind of feel (but it's just as RNG based)

I also found Artifact significantly more enjoyable than Underlords. Haven't been able to find a game to replace it. Checked out of Gwent just before the last expansion.
 
Tim

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
441
It's funny because in Underlords people don't really have a problem with unit rng, but when it came to player matching it drove them nuts to go against the same player multiple times in a row. Would love to know why.

I like both games a lot, but they are very different. Underlords is a casual game while Artifact is big brain serious. And the fact is most card game fans are casuals who just want to go face while watching Twitch on another screen. If there is a hardcore market out there, Valve did not manage to find them in large enough numbers to matter.
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
ZeroX said:
I'm sure there's some psychology behind it, like the arrows and OG Cheating Death feels like an unavoidable screw you (when in reality it isn't) while gacha/reroll has that one more chance I'm still in this kind of feel (but it's just as RNG based)
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I mean, it's the difference between poker and one-armed bandits. And not just in the fact that one is (mostly) skilled with some elements of chance whilst the other is random, but in how the purely random plays upon people's hopes of being a winner next time. There's always a next time I'll win, because if the game isn't skill-based, everyone will win big at some stage, right?
 
Lyng

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
So my wife and me and a couple we are close friends with have begun playing Artifact together. Its actually a ton of fun to do draft tournaments together. Its like cubedrafting magic, except we can do it online and only had to pay the cost of Artifact. Highly recommend it.
 
HylianSeven

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,008
Lyng said:
So my wife and me and a couple we are close friends with have begun playing Artifact together. Its actually a ton of fun to do draft tournaments together. Its like cubedrafting magic, except we can do it online and only had to pay the cost of Artifact. Highly recommend it.
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That's cool to hear. I miss this game and wish the matchmaking was active enough.

I was also slightly disappointed to see this thread bumped and not have it be the reworked version they were working on.
 
Lyng

Lyng

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Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
HylianSeven said:
That's cool to hear. I miss this game and wish the matchmaking was active enough.

I was also slightly disappointed to see this thread bumped and not have it be the reworked version they were working on.
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Ah yeah sorry about that. I did consider if this would disappoint some people, but we have been enjoying the game this way so much that I really wanted to share it with fellow Artifact lovers.
 
Hektor

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
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Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
Randdalf said:
I'm kinda tempted to buy all the cards given you can get them all for around ~£30 now.
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Has there been any new news (Oh, I just saw the new date above)? I played the game like crazy for the first three weeks and never touched it again. If Valve are really going to reset and go again, grab the cards. If this looks like too little to late, stay away.
 
Tim

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
441
I reinstalled this recently too. Found myself missing it. Really, the queue times aren't as long as I expected. At least for phantom draft.
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Yeah, I've been playing it a lot recently, too. I know I should play something from my backlog, but it's just so damn satisfying. Wait times aren't horrible in Constructed, either, though I end up playing against the same person more and more often.
 
ZeroX

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I dip in every once and a while, I'm impatient though, I'll usually just face the AI.

Like I said, if anything happens with this game, I don't expect it to be this year.
 
Almeister

Almeister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
962
ZeroX said:
I dip in every once and a while, I'm impatient though, I'll usually just face the AI.

Like I said, if anything happens with this game, I don't expect it to be this year.
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Did you end up having any fun with the lockdown / all improvements decks I shared before the player base imploded?

I still miss this game being active and playing silly decks against the AI just isn't the same :(
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Lock is the clearest signal ever that a) the base set wasn't playtested thoroughly, with Garfield breaking the "Don't have any mechanic that can't be overcome" (unwritten) rule of CCGs/board-games, and b) that Valve had no idea what they were doing at least some of the time. Partly because of a), partly because of the previously noted Valve staff in awe of Garfield,. and partly because they didn't just drop the expansion (which presumably fights Lock in various ways) straight away.

ZeroX said:
I did make the lock deck! Didn't get to play against many human players and get the rage I wanted though. You don't get the satisfaction against AI.
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Take heart in knowing that just reading about a lock deck makes me rage. :p
 
Luminish

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Lock is one of those mechanics that should never be able to go above 30% winrates.

I like being annoying too, but it's only fair for it to come with the cost of annoying yourself too.
 
Lyng

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
Pixieking said:
Lock is the clearest signal ever that a) the base set wasn't playtested thoroughly, with Garfield breaking the "Don't have any mechanic that can't be overcome" (unwritten) rule of CCGs/board-games, and b) that Valve had no idea what they were doing at least some of the time. Partly because of a), partly because of the previously noted Valve staff in awe of Garfield,. and partly because they didn't just drop the expansion (which presumably fights Lock in various ways) straight away.



Take heart in knowing that just reading about a lock deck makes me rage. :p
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Lock is simply a variance on Counter / disgard mechanics. If anything I find it far less rage inducing since you dont loose your cards entirely.
 
RepairmanJack

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,096
I still feel like this game could have found an eventual audience and could have grown, if they just gave people more of a reason to keep playing. Any kind of progression at all I feel would have gone a long way.

I still find myself wanting to play all the time, but after I do a random game I just find myself backing out because there isn't really any reason to keep playing.
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Lyng said:
Lock is simply a variance on Counter / disgard mechanics. If anything I find it far less rage inducing since you dont loose your cards entirely.
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Sure, but when you have a hand of locked cards - literally an entire hand locked for 2 and 3 rounds like I had a few days ago - with no way to remove, it may as well be "Discard hand". :/
 
Randdalf

Randdalf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,167
RepairmanJack said:
I still feel like this game could have found an eventual audience and could have grown, if they just gave people more of a reason to keep playing. Any kind of progression at all I feel would have gone a long way.

I still find myself wanting to play all the time, but after I do a random game I just find myself backing out because there isn't really any reason to keep playing.
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Since when was having fun not a reason to keep playing 😟

I have to admit the reason I usually stopped playing after a game or two was because it's quite mentally draining. It's like playing chess.
 
RepairmanJack

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,096
Randdalf said:
Since when was having fun not a reason to keep playing 😟

I have to admit the reason I usually stopped playing after a game or two was because it's quite mentally draining. It's like playing chess.
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I feel like that is a possibility, if there was enough variety. But in the base game there just wasn't enough variety. I can enjoy playing but be tired of basically the same few win conditions. Without variety I feel like it needed to be supplemented with reasons to play. For some that came from draft, which I think was the best aspect of the game, but even that loses it's appeal after a while when you continue to go for the same cards over and over.

Like the same thing is happening with Underlords right now. People are tired of the same builds and the same meta and most have completed their battle pass so player count is just going down and down. Variety in gameplay can be supplemented by reasons to play.
 
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