OP
OP
There will be Commons-only tourney this weekend prolly Friday evening EST
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Artifact |OT| Development Stopped
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
- Start date
Went from a series of 4-2 Drafts to now 6 straight 1-2s, Ogre 0 multicasts in 9 games, I should stop picking that card
After hustling cards for the last few days I finally made enough for a Drow Ranger. Now I've come to the realization that I have almost no good green cards outside of 1 Emissary RIP
Cheating Death is the dumbest shit ever though. I had 2 but sold them because the idea offended me.
Whoever allowed that to make it to release should play Russian Roulette with 3 bullets.
Cheating Death is the dumbest shit ever though. I had 2 but sold them because the idea offended me.
Whoever allowed that to make it to release should play Russian Roulette with 3 bullets.
How are you hustling cards? Buying them and hoping the price goes up? Or just selling yours?
The first one is very risky especially with valve's 15%. Even if you pick right and a card goes up 20%, you'd only make 5% after valve's cut. On the other hand if the card goes down 20%, you'd lose just under 35%.
if you made $15 doing this, congrats, but it's definitely a risky play.
For the time being I'm only selling my expensive cards I have no intention of using (annihilation and other blue/green cards).
However I think a lot of money can be made speculating on janky rares and hoping an expansion makes them viable.
Currently the only way I've seen to make a ton of money would have been buying a bunch of axe day one when it was $13 and then dumping them when it broke $20. I was considering it but unfortunately didn't pull the trigger and then I would up buying it at $21.
Not really playing the market so much. The best cards I got initially were Cheating Death, Annihilation and a Horn of the Alpha. Combined that's pretty damn good but spells and items kind of tanked early on but improved over time. So on my initial purchase I got back around $10 (I still have Annhiliation). Then I bought a few more packs and got nothing of note except an Emissary which I'm also keeping.
With the transaction fee and the additional Artifact fee, more and more value is being lost over time. Yeah you might high roll on your free cards but there's nothing to really flip anymore. Only way I can see someone coming out ahead over time is being a Draft god and consistently getting packs and selling them. Everyone else might as well load 20 Steam bucks and buy some cards, when they get bored, sell them, buy other cards or buy a game on Steam. Buying packs is a mostly a waste of money.
The luckiest drafts will always float to the top, but players who are really good at drafting can still break even on a bad draft.
Page 1 is a new pack which you pick 2 cards from. Page 2 is what's left from someone else's pack after they picked 2. This continues until all cards are taken. You do this with 5 packs.
Since you are always picking from leftovers, the chances of getting a good card diminish the further you get through a pack.
So tried Artifact out and really enjoyed what I played, turns out I suck at constructed though. Anyone got some decent guides/videos on deck building or anything around the cards I should be looking out for? I know it's still early days but thought I'd ask anyway.
Not sure how useful this'll be, but here's some of what I've worked out:
If you're doing dual-colour (or tri-colour) watch how you weight the number of cards for each colour.
Ordering of Heroes when building decks has more depth than you think. Whilst you can't choose the lanes they drop in, you can decide whether they drop Round 1, 2 or 3. So someone like Treant can save an ally from death in the first round, which has the potential to save you in the second, as it gives some breathing space in the lane.
Don't be afraid to build a big deck and experiment with what works. I'm running an 86 card Green/Blue right now which has a decent win/loss rate (I think. Dammit we need stats, stat!)
Conversely, don't feel the need to have 3 of every card in your deck. I've personally found that 2 is the optimum number for everything except the best cards, with a good variety being more flexible in countering the opponents I've faced.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZR0xHSfjxEzE6IlhSJ1rbnstuhieluhCiW8QskOMBcQ/edit#gid=0
weplay tournament pros' decklists
👌
these are basically the top tier decks atm
There's most likely never going to be a 5th color.
The initial idea for the game where 3 colors based on Dota 2's stats, they said they only added black as a 4th color because 3 colors ended up being too limited.
Not my fault Dota is ripping of League of legends' original ideas.
Just faced my first pure Green deck, and it was packing a Drow Ranger, too.
Still, I won. :D
Did 12 overkill on the tower at the end, just to be sure. Incarnation of Selemene is just crazy good. 9 cost is about right for it. Had initiative, so dropped that, followed by a Divine Intervention (allies immune from all damage for the round), and my opponent was just doomed from that point on.
Still, I won. :D
Did 12 overkill on the tower at the end, just to be sure. Incarnation of Selemene is just crazy good. 9 cost is about right for it. Had initiative, so dropped that, followed by a Divine Intervention (allies immune from all damage for the round), and my opponent was just doomed from that point on.
Ooh really, the collection UI had me thinking they left just enough space for a fifth colour. Thanks for clearing it up though!
Can someone explain how initiative works? We open a lane and I go first, if I play a card I lose initiative in the next lane... but if I pass I gain initiative?
whoever passes first gets initiative
if you play a card that says 'get initiative' you can immediately hit pass to get it OR you can play another card and lose it
Basically the last person who played a card DOESN'T have initiative. If you already have initiative and you don't play a card you should keep initiative, unless your opponent plays an initiative card which gives them initiative.
After coming in negative and trying out the game for the first hour or two I was pleasantly surprised. But the more I play the more negative I'm feeling on this. The whole payment model is just pretty gross, it feels incredibly 'pay to get a giant advantage' in constructed. It just feels frustrating knowing without being great at the game I can't earn any cards - it's super anti-casual friendly. As someone who dips in and out of digital card games, it's just pushing me away completely. There's almost no element of progression by slowly building up your collection and decks as a casual player.
That and the length of the matches make losing even more frustrating. Once you get to 7+ mana the amount of monumental game shifting cards that appear seem almost ridiculous - once you hit that late game folks with strong cards can wipe out huge amounts or completely change the match around.
That frustrating element makes it feel way less addictive than the competition and almost has the opposite effect - it feels like a waste of time. The game is so slow, and so punishing, I'd be surprised if it was able to hook in casual players over time.
That and the length of the matches make losing even more frustrating. Once you get to 7+ mana the amount of monumental game shifting cards that appear seem almost ridiculous - once you hit that late game folks with strong cards can wipe out huge amounts or completely change the match around.
That frustrating element makes it feel way less addictive than the competition and almost has the opposite effect - it feels like a waste of time. The game is so slow, and so punishing, I'd be surprised if it was able to hook in casual players over time.
I can't really say much to the pay aspect because I feel like that's up in the air player to player. It's been shown as the cheapest to compete of card games, but the paid competitive mode isn't for everyone so that can be annoying too. I would definitely say it's not really the best casual friendly game.
But as for the length of play or feeling frustration at game swings, I feel the exact opposite. Coming from attempting to play Hearthstone I feel like there were always meta decks that would basically refute even playing the game. Like an example being the deck that was big like a year ago where one card recast all battlecry's twice or something like that. As soon as it got to that card it was basically game over no matter what. Your only real counter to it was hoping you could win fast enough to not get to that point. Every time I've attempted to get into Hearthstone and spending money one it with expansions I would start playing and eventually just start hitting whatever is meta at the time and just feel dejected with not much to be done about it.
So far with Artifact I don't think I've every either watched or played a match where it got the point of there being nothing you could have done. Whether it's condemning improvements, or preventing a specific spell to be cast with imitative, or giving damage immunity when you know it's coming, it feels like there is always something you can or could have done.
7-8+ mana are supposed to be game shifting, they're the most mana and take up basically the whole turn and mana pool.
I agree Hearthstone does have those cheap metas that are often very tough to counter, but Blizz would often nerf them into the ground shortly after. As a casual player it certainly feels like there's already been multiple times I couldn't really have done anything. Sure if I'd have known my opponent's deck was building up towards a big spell / play I could have tried to predict / counter it, but that takes a fairly large amount of experience to know those kind of plays and on-going metas.
Here it's like I'll spend 20 minutes thinking "I'm doing okay" only to suddenly get my entire lane demolished in one spell and be basically out of the match. If it's a 5/10 min game like Hearthstone it's like screw it, surrender and queue up again. But in Artifact due to the slow nature of the game it just feels utterly demoralising, as if I just wasted 20-25 minutes of my life with absolutely nothing to show for it. It doesn't make me want to come back for more, it makes me want to spend my limited gaming time on something else.
Don't get me wrong there's some awesome depth there for the real hardcore. But that longer game time coupled with a total lack of progression will do the game no favours with the more casual card player, and I think you're already starting to see that in the player numbers.
The only thing I would say is that you're saying it would take experience to counter it, but then you discount the actual playing as experience and just passing it off as a waste of time.
Learning the heroes and their signature spells is honestly the quickest and easiest way to improve. Knowing Earthshaker has Echo Slam at I think 8 mana, knowing Zeus has Thundergod wrath at 7, knowing Luna has eclipse at 6 mana, Phantom Assassin has Coup de Grace at 6. There's just tons of those small things that come with experience and help you curve how you play cards and what you save or when you try to get initiative.
I would just say I wouldn't pass it off as a waste of time. Unless you're just not having a good time and not enjoying it, then by all means don't give it more time. I just wouldn't overlook the experience that can be gained.
win or lose you still learned something. if you feel like you didnt get anything out of the game then id say its not the game for you.
also right now the game doenst have much variety so its not too hard to predict what the oponent can do.
Then you probably cannot read the board, like many other people playing the game early on. There are tons of unwinnable board states so this is just a really weird thing to say. Why do you think it's so common for people to sac lanes?
I don't mean at like a point where you can't win, I was relating it to stuff I saw often in Hearthstone where stuff would just completely go overboard and there was nothing to do.
Of course you get to a point where you can't win, but I more meant that most of those big swings just aren't coming out of nowhere where you never could have done anything or can't afterward.
Like I was specifically relating it to that specific meta deck in hearthstone where basically your only chance was winning fast enough that their big cards didn't come into play. There was really little else that could be done.
There are definitely points where you realize you can't win and either your best hope is to draw, but I was more meaning in a sudden capacity. I'm not seeing a single card come up and instantly thinking "Oh, well there goes that game." unless the game was already widely in their favor already.
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Can someone explain how initiative works? We open a lane and I go first, if I play a card I lose initiative in the next lane... but if I pass I gain /keep initiative?
Exactly - if you pass first and your opponent passes too the lane is switched and you would have the initiative as you passed first.
Are you sure about this? The colors track too well to MTG colors for DOTA to be the only inspiration... and maybe I'm the only one, but only having 6 two-color combinations instead of 10 is already starting to show its monotony.
The economy stuff is really wild
I put in 20, did a keeper and got kanna, now my cards are valued at least 25+ if i decide to sell. If im done with the game or decide i dont care about constructed and just want free draft, im coming out with at least 5 bucks extra (for dbz dlc, whatever).
At the same time valve take a cut off every transaction, including the extra 5 bucks i might use on dlc for another game and i get artifact plus extra stuff from steam.
Jaysus
I put in 20, did a keeper and got kanna, now my cards are valued at least 25+ if i decide to sell. If im done with the game or decide i dont care about constructed and just want free draft, im coming out with at least 5 bucks extra (for dbz dlc, whatever).
At the same time valve take a cut off every transaction, including the extra 5 bucks i might use on dlc for another game and i get artifact plus extra stuff from steam.
Jaysus
Something I have seen lots of people speculating on twitter and reddit is that market prices will crash tomorrow. Tomorrow is 7 days into release so all the people that didn't have steamguard and had to equip it will be able to use the market then and could lead to the market being flooded with cards.
i'm fairly certain that was the explanation given, although i can't find a source right now.
But many people are not able to buy yet either, so it will even out. At least this is what was pointed out to me when I made this exact post a few days ago.
Eh, I think it's overstated. The prices will fluctuate some but I'm sure it will even out with those people also buying.
Imagine one card not being worth more than the game, though...
And Valve needs new intro credits for the company... what are we? in a David Fincher 90's video/film?
And Valve needs new intro credits for the company... what are we? in a David Fincher 90's video/film?
Tons of cards in MTG are worth more than the deck builder's toolkit I buy from time to time.
Going to digital goods, a crap ton of skins in certain steam games are worth more than the game they're for.
And in those games you can trade between players and cash out and get real money in your bank account. In Artifact, you get screwed by steam's crazy tax and all you end up with is virtual steam buck.
Artifact's monetization is predatory and it masks itself as a TCG while denying the ability to trade.
The crazy thing would be that there could possibly NOT be a card worth more than the game...
Not the other way around.
My first expert phantom draft was a success.
My deck was solid. Sniper is #sogood. https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJcMAIH1gvAEHmxO4XYJy3QEMAwQIygQEFgoEBQoBBxAJCDABZgFREyYC
My packs were total garbage though. 😕
My deck was solid. Sniper is #sogood. https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJcMAIH1gvAEHmxO4XYJy3QEMAwQIygQEFgoEBQoBBxAJCDABZgFREyYC
My packs were total garbage though. 😕
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