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Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,921
The Netherlands
It's a legitimate medical procedure and it has benefitted a lot of people greatly. It has saved lives.

Losing all your gut flora has seriously harmful effects, and this is a good way to get it back.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/acg/48172

Stop comparing this to snake oil bullshit.

Also, the way our intestines work is getting more and more researched. There are strong signals that 'mental' issues like depression can be strongly influenced by your gut flora. Some researchers call your gut the body's "second brain". It's because it's just a less sexy topic compared to neurology or things like that, but signs point that we still have a lot to learn on this front and that it greatly influence or even cure many known diseases.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Also, the way our intestines work is getting more and more researched. There are strong signals that 'mental' issues like depression can be strongly influenced by your gut flora. Some researchers call your gut the body's "second brain". It's because it's just a less sexy topic compared to neurology or things like that, but signs point that we still have a lot to learn on this front and that it greatly influence or even cure many known diseases.

Yup, the intestine interacts with gut bacteria using chemical transmitters. Beyond the bacteria eating your food before it even gets absorbed by your body, different strains release different transmitters that your body and immune system absorb that can even dictate your nervous system and metabolism. Theory is developing that people's health is directly influenced by the gut flora they have, the dominant strains, and the ones you inherit from your family
 
May 18, 2018
298
Shame on you people laughing, this person probably suffered a insurmountable amount of pain before dying, as a husband to a wife with problems that may require her to do something like this I find this pretty offensive.
 

Septy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 29, 2017
4,082
United States
Poop is supposed to leave the body for a reason. Now if you're transplanting stomach microbes? That's a better idea, but there are better ways to reinvigorate your gut bacteria.

Edit* I guess these peeps needed this procedure done quickly so I guess it makes more sense.
Obviously you know better than all these doctors and scientists
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,451
gotta say, I consider myself pretty dumb and even I know what a fecal transplant is

some of these posts are mega extra dumb
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
There's a lot of stuff in your gut. There's a lot of (expensive) testing you can do. If you get it from open biome, you the patient don't get to choose the donor. That leads to obvious blind spots, like the donors diet. Plus, the donation will be old.

The donor I had was selected from a bank. It stopped my cdiff and rampant weight loss, but I might have picked something else up. I needed additional work, but the transplant saved my life. Comes with the territory.
 

djinn

Member
Nov 16, 2017
15,766
It's not that hard to screen for ESBL. What the hell happened here?

Also the poo jokes need to stop. Someone died, you degenerates.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
some really ignorant takes here, FMT is a real and helpful procedure. Your gut flora has a huge impact on the machinations of your body.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,274
x8Lyfex.gif
Warned for posting a medically accurate comic, I see you Jay
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
I thought this was some psuedo science comestic stuff so sure while the joke may have been in bad taste and wrong I'm not sure while why I'm the only one being warned. I was wrong and ignorant on the subject so I take responsibility.
Whining about getting a warning isnt really taking responsibility though is it. Just accept it was in bad taste and move on.

That being said the source article is not very professional in its title or its content, the fact they use poop in the title and use the word "mucky" when several other words would have worked better is honestly pretty pathetic

Sad news about the guy, but I suppose stuff like this can happen with experimental procedures, hopefully they will be more careful in future
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,430
Whining about getting a warning isnt really taking responsibility though is it. Just accept it was in bad taste and move on.

That being said the source article is not very professional in its title or its content, the fact they use poop in the title and use the word "mucky" when several other words would have worked better is honestly pretty pathetic

Sad news about the guy, but I suppose stuff like this can happen with experimental procedures, hopefully they will be more careful in future
Again, I wasnt complaining about the warning but that I was the only poster warned. Thats not the case anymore but seems like the mods went too far with the warnings.
 
Staff post.

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
Official Staff Communication
It shouldn't have to be said but a thread about someone dying isn't the place to make poop jokes. Don't use this thread to complain about your warnings. Stay on topic.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,968
I've heard of a bunch of cases with this procedure having long term negative side effects. Nothing this bad of course but it seems like they still have a ways to go to perfect the process.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
I didn't know this is a thing, crazy what the potential may be for people. Terrible way to go or get sick, though they do know it is experimental I guess.

Damn this thread got heavy handed quick with the warnings.
 

PoppaBK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
I hope this comment is supposed to be serious, because they're absolutely supposed to screen donors for abnormal pathogens in the case of fecal transplants.
Either they were taking short cuts or more likely it got contaminated after screening due to poor procedures.
And I know the outcome of this was literally deathly serious, but like any medical procedure involving the butt, you have to expect that there will be jokes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
couldn't they instead create cultures from the patient's same intestines?
If their intestines are in a state of dysbiosis then there's nothing to use. They need fresh, healthy stool. You can't grow that in a petri dish, the donor is the dish. By the time you would need to "save" the sick person stool, they've been sick for a long time.
I've heard of a bunch of cases with this procedure having long term negative side effects. Nothing this bad of course but it seems like they still have a ways to go to perfect the process.
Not doing the procedure keeps you sick. Whatever you read is fud. The people that need them are going to have reactions, pain/discomfort, flu like symptoms no matter what. Crohn's, colitis, ibs suffers etc - mostly anything you do or eat will destroy you on a daily basis. Steriods, immune suppresesants don't help that dysbiosis. Just covers it up, or makes it worse.

Thing is, you need to do MORE than one for the procedure to be the most effective, depending on how sick you actually are.
 

Topper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
93
Feel like I heard about microbes and this procedure in an episode of radio lab, seemed neat but radio lab makes everything cool.
 

Kieli

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,736
Between this, shoving jade eggs up your vagina, and bee venom therapy, I'm starting to wonder if we have too much time on our hands

C'mon dude. Why are you comparing a legitimate medical procedure that has been clinically proven to be beneficial to literal snake oil tinfoil bullshit?
 

Roo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,049
Making fucking poop jokes like you all were 10 years old... nice job guys.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
C'mon dude. Why are you comparing a legitimate medical procedure that has been clinically proven to be beneficial to literal snake oil tinfoil bullshit?
Mainly because the last time I was made aware of this procedure it was being done in the sketchiest method imaginable (basically just gathering a bunch of feces and jamming it up there) but if it's come far enough to be legit then okay.

It actually used to be an irrational fear of mine that I'd go to donate blood and there'd be something secretly horrible in it that would somehow be missed in testing and it'd accidentally kill the people it was used on.
 

Volkama

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,038
As someone with Crohn's disease I'd like to try FMT. Didn't know this procedure could be deadly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
Mainly because the last time I was made aware of this procedure it was being done in the sketchiest method imaginable (basically just gathering a bunch of feces and jamming it up there) but if it's come far enough to be legit then okay.
...thats how it's done, at the last part anyway. The only difference between a doc doing it vs a layman is that they scope you much deeper before dropping the payload. Gravity/proper positioning post procedure is more important, that and keeping your "composure"

The prep/doing your due diligence is the hard part, along with dealing with your own sickness.
As someone with Crohn's disease I'd like to try FMT. Didn't know this procedure could be deadly.
Don't discount it, please I implore you. If you are not finding that anything else is working, that every day is miserable, that you are getting sicker - fmt is probably the most effective option out there.

It can be scary and concerning, especially because getting an official fmt for Crohn's specifically isn't legal. So we're on our own here.

I encourage you to read "The Fecal Transplant Guidebook" by Sky Curtis. Also, "Fecal Transplant" by Diane York, MS - both are on Amazon. These were written by people with a lot of experience in the area. Curtis especially went through hell watching her son waste away before deciding on fmts, but that tale specifically (it's a hard read) is detailed in another book I don't have on me right now.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,645
Puns eh?

I really struggle to get a read on the seemingly random application of Era's posting ethics sometimes.
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,392
Your warnings were not in vain, you all got a small chuckle out of me
Puns eh?

I really struggle to get a read on the seemingly random application of Era's posting ethics sometimes.
I feel like it's generally, "Did X Person Die or was Seriously Injured? No Jokes if so"
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
Damn thats sad. This is actually a pretty safe procedure usually. Someone fucked up somewhere in screening
 

Deleted member 5334

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
Some of these posts...

Yes, this is absolutely a real thing. In fact, my dad was considering maybe getting this (believe it was suggested by the doctors), because of issues he experienced after dealing with C. Diff and would likely help build up proper bacteria again.

Trust me, I know this absolutely sounds ridiculous, and it does (definitely surprised me it was a thing, not gonna lie), but it's a real thing and it has helped so many people with various problems.

I'll note, the way that article is wording, after looking at it a bit more, is kinda... not great and it feels like it makes light of the situation.

I think what surprised me a bit is how the fecal samples and stuff weren't screened before being transplanted. You'd think that'd be a common process before doing a transplant, considering there is absolutely bad bacteria that can be in there (as mention, E. Coli), along with the good kind. I get there was mention of the E. Coli found in the samples was drug resistant (provided I didn't misread the article), but that's still something you should be careful of.

Could've been even a misstep, but, god damn... That's a really terrible one.

Sorry for the family of the individual, though... Definitely not what you'd expect to happen for a relatively safe procedure.

Just to show you how something simple can go so wrong: We've... experienced a similar scare with a procedure with my father during scoping down his throat. His heart stopped both attempts to to it, with the second time being the worst (the doctor noted the first time could happen in really rare scenarios, but the second time suggested a pattern, and given how bad his heart stopped that time...).

Prompted us having to get a pace maker in him, just to be on the safe side. Man, that whole year was just... something else.

Still, just... Man. Wish the guy's (whoever it was) family the best, and the other person who became serious ill to pull through.
 

davidnolan13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,542
north east uk
I thought I was reading some of the posts wrong about it getting shoved up your arse because I saw a thing about this a while ago and they processed it and put it down a tube in your throat.
 

Ayato_Kanzaki

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,481
I was considering a FMT for weight loss but this article is certainly scary. Still, if this is the first death then it may still be safer than liposuction (My second option)

This article state that there is no obvious benefit of the procedure for weight loss, and the biggest issue with liposuction is that if you regain weight, the fat will go to the fat tissues that weren't removed and it would look worse than before, since removed fat tissues won't grow back.
If you want to lose weight, I think the best way is surgery to remove part of your stomach. I know a girl who did this, and she went from 110+kg to fit in about 18 months. Now you'd never guess she was once overweight.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
I thought I was reading some of the posts wrong about it getting shoved up your arse because I saw a thing about this a while ago and they processed it and put it down a tube in your throat.
Doing it top down - with pills, never heard of the tube method, sounds wack - is actually a very risky/dangerous method. You could get SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth.

The only processing that needs to be done (if at all) is mixing the stool with around .9% saline. The objective is to have the maximum amount of unadulterated donor bacteria attach to as much of the colon as possible.
 

davidnolan13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,542
north east uk
Doing it top down - with pills, never heard of the tube method, sounds wack - is actually a very risky/dangerous method. You could get SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth.

The only processing that needs to be done (if at all) is mixing the stool with around .9% saline. The objective is to have the maximum amount of unadulterated donor bacteria attach to as much of the colon as possible.
it was a nasogastric tube (just had to look it up) but by the look of it it isnt a popular method despite being a simpler method as it can cause other problems.
 

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
It's a fascinating field of research, as bacteria in your gut can have an impact on all aspects of your life, your mood, what you want to eat and when, potentially your sleep... Poop transplant has the potential of solving a huge amount of health issues in a relatively safe and easy way.
However, it's still at a very experimental (even theoretical) stage, and the paragraph in the article about the struggle the FDA faces to regulate all this highlight how difficult this field is.

Let's hope the other patient manages to recover.
90% of your entire health stems directly from your gut bacteria. For those wondering why fecal transplants are a thing or scoff at it. Stop. It's real, many hostipals and medical centers have used it to treat many things and there are active clinical trials using it to treat many digestive disorders.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,589
Tragic for this to happen, for sure.
It is fortunate that they can learn from this and improve the screening and the science so that it won't happen in the future.