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Arrested Development returns March 15

G_Shumi

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,138
Cleveland, OH
I think one of the multiple reasons why the Netflix seasons have been so bad is because they keep doing this season-long plot. In the original run, you had season-long plots but they weren't at the front and center of every episode. They were musings that were happening in the background or minor plots that didn't need attention in every single episode. You could watch one episode and be satisfied because there was a beginning, middle, and end (mostly, since there were some two-episode arcs here and there). It's not like that in the Netflix seasons. You need to watch the entire season to feel satisfied because the beginning, middle, and end were stretched out. The payoff for having one big story for the entire season is just not paying off.

One other major reason that season 5 has been bad so far is that they're still trying to wrap up stuff from season 4, even though that was more than 5 years ago at this point. It's time to move on to a new story but they just can't let things go for some reason.
 
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Mr. Doop

Mr. Doop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
113
I genuinely really like season 4, in both the OG and recut versions, but I just thought season 5 felt pointless. I don't remember a thing about it and I'm honestly not sure if I even finished it.
 
Ushojax

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,927
G_Shumi said:
I think one of the multiple reasons why the Netflix seasons have been so bad is because they keep doing this season-long plot. In the original run, you had season-long plots but they weren't at the front and center of every episode. They were musings that were happening in the background or minor plots that didn't need attention in every single episode. You could watch one episode and be satisfied because there was a beginning, middle, and end (mostly, since there were some two-episode arcs here and there). It's not like that in the Netflix seasons. You need to watch the entire season to feel satisfied because the beginning, middle, and end were stretched out. The payoff for having one big story for the entire season is just not paying off.

One other major reason that season 5 has been bad so far is that they're still trying to wrap up stuff from season 4, even though that was more than 5 years ago at this point. It's time to move on to a new story but they just can't let things go for some reason.
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The old seasons also had a much more clear dynamic at the centre of the show, with Michael trying to teach George Michael life lessons in a futile effort to stop him ending up like the other Bluths (compulsively lying, stealing, debauchery etc). Now that George Michael is all grown up and a fully developed Bluth they've had to fill that story hole with convoluted multi-season plots that are both boring and poorly constructed.

S4 worked to a point because it tried to build the destruction of the old family dynamic into the story of the show. S5 was pitched as them all coming back together again but it has not been able to do it in a satisfactory way. I mean, if the only way to get Lindsay into the show was to use green screen, then the show shouldn't happen. Her relationship with the others is too important and Tobias and Lucille in particular feel like utterly pointless characters without her. I don't know how anyone could watch all those shots of Jessica Walter talking to a stand-in without cringing. That is not the show.
 
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jmood88

jmood88

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,467
I genuinely don't remember if I liked the first half or not. I had completely forgotten that they even released half a season until I saw this thread.
 
Porco Rosso

Porco Rosso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,209
Canada
I'm honestly excited for this. Season 4 is underrated and while the beginning of Season 5 was the worst it has ever been, it honestly was fantastic in the final 3 episodes. If it keeps that momentum up this could be a solid season.
 
Kevers

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,538
Syracuse, NY
As much as I love Arrested Development and defend season 4 I just never bothered to even give 5 a shot. Maybe I will now that the entire thing will be out but I'm not sure.
 

Deleted member 13798

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
I honestly don't even care anymore. This show coming back was one of the biggest disappointments considering how it went, and everything about it those in writing and everything behind the scenes just makes me uninterested in watching.
 
Edge

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
People should give season 4 another chance. The original run.
When I watched the full season for the first time last year and not just the first 3 episodes, I realized how good it is in the end. First it was awkward how split up some of the episodes were but after more and more episodes, everything started to connect really well, more and more, from episode to episode like a huge puzzle and it worked so freaking good in the end. Storylines got connected in smart ways, timelines made more and more sense and it had some huge "aha effects" in the later episodes, it was sooooo good. It also has so many iconic scenes and good jokes that we still quote today and after I was done I really thought "damn, I might even like this more than the other seasons".
And I freaking hated 4 when I gave it a try a few years ago for 3 episodes or so.
But watching all was an amazing experience and just worked and was really thought through.


Then I watched the recut after that and it wasn't as good, can't recommend it over the original season 4, it's not a good cut.

Season 5 then was awful and made me appreciate original season 4 even more. It's a joke in comparison, the dirt under the shoes of OG season 4. It's incredible how much worse it is in so many aspects.
 
MisterSnrub

MisterSnrub

Member
Mar 10, 2018
5,901
Someplace Far Away
plagiarize said:
Best? No doubt its Twin Peaks.

Red Dwarf's last season was really strong and that's arguably a revival. MST3K has been good too. I'm sure there are some other good ones.

As for AD, I loved season 4 (prefer the OG cut). I really didn't get on with season 5 part 1. I'm hoping part 2 retroactively makes it funny (because the first few episodes of season 4 on the first watch were tough, but are really funny on a rewatch.

Loved Maeby's plot and enjoyed GOBs, even if the greenscreen stuff REALLY hurt the last episode of that. Like, the suitcase ADR was funny, but that greenscreen stuff... eurgh.
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You just can't count Red Dwarf after the departure of Rob Grant. It went completely off the rails. I think fans are just relieved to find the new seasons more or less watchable after years of hiatus and shitcommy reboots. But they ain't exactly a return to form. Doug Naylor, left to his own tools, just has zero intuition for the show or what makes it work.
 
MisterSnrub

MisterSnrub

Member
Mar 10, 2018
5,901
Someplace Far Away
Shoe said:
Season 4's original cut was fun how it jumped in and around the storyline, but the recut and especially Season 5 are just juuuuuuunk
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Yup. I could enjoy OG S4 as a one-off watch; it's just too slow and the plot structure decisions they made were simply fucking labyrinthine - BUT - it had its funny moments and there was the feeling of the season's structure being a one-off compromise to suit the character's schedules. That didn't turn out, S5 feels as stilted and distant as the last one. The S4 recut actively made things worse and the new season simply isn't funny at all. It's actively depressing. And can somebody please tell them that the more they lean into Ron Howard, the less funny his presence becomes? I mean man we met his real-life family in S5... just the opposite of a good idea.
 
Koozek

Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
Never would've believed I wouldn't be excited for new AD episodes :/ Had to force myself to finish season 5's first half, it was so bad. I literally don't even remember anything about the plot.
 
stillwrapped

stillwrapped

Banned
Aug 15, 2018
994
??
They really blue this by splitting it into two parts. It killed all the momentum by having it abruptly end. I basically have to go back and watch the first part over again.

Edge said:
People should give season 4 another chance. The original run.
When I watched the full season for the first time last year and not just the first 3 episodes, I realized how good it is in the end. First it was awkward how split up some of the episodes were but after more and more episodes, everything started to connect really well, more and more, from episode to episode like a huge puzzle and it worked so freaking good in the end. Storylines got connected in smart ways, timelines made more and more sense and it had some huge "aha effects" in the later episodes, it was sooooo good. It also has so many iconic scenes and good jokes that we still quote today and after I was done I really thought "damn, I might even like this more than the other seasons".
And I freaking hated 4 when I gave it a try a few years ago for 3 episodes or so.
But watching all was an amazing experience and just worked and was really thought through.


Then I watched the recut after that and it wasn't as good, can't recommend it over the original season 4, it's not a good cut.

Season 5 then was awful and made me appreciate original season 4 even more. It's a joke in comparison, the dirt under the shoes of OG season 4. It's incredible how much worse it is in so many aspects.
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You know I gotta disagree a little. I defended Season 4 original cut forever. It doesn't seem like it knows what it's doing at first, but when it all comes together at the end, it really is a work of genius.
Then the new cut came out, and they did a great job on it. I don't know if its necessarily better - because you and I seem to like Season 4 for the same reasons - but the recut is more in line with the original style of the show, and is still very funny. I wouldn't say it's a bad cut by any means.

Original is still better though, you just really have to stick with it, and anyone who hasn't, if you're a fan of the show TRUST US it is worth it.
 
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Barry Sandwich

Barry Sandwich

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
I would not trust that Guardian review tbf.
Arnett is by far the funniest thing in the show yet they single out Shawkat?

Tell me that's nothing to do with the behind the scenes politics the review doesn't shut up about.
 
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Bananastand

Bananastand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,426
Eh, I thought Shawkat was by far the best thing about the first part. Her story with George Michael was the funniest thing. GOB just seemed a bit lost.
 
MMarston

MMarston

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,605
First episode of this half was OK.

Still, the overabundance of editing tricks is really obvious now (there was a digital still cutout of David Cross at one point) and you can tell select actors just aren't into it anymore.

Shawkat and Arnett are still great.
 
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Red Liquorice

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,066
UK
I can't even remember if I've watched the first half of the season. I think I'll just remember it fondly for s1-3 and give it a miss.
 
8byte

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
MMarston said:
First episode of this half was OK.

Still, the overabundance of editing tricks is really obvious now (there was a digital still cutout of Michael Cross at one point) and you can tell select actors just aren't into it anymore.

Shawkat and Arnett are still great.
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Who is Michael Cross?
 
NealMcCauley

NealMcCauley

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,499
The complaints about editing and actors doing the bare minimum actually make me want to watch the eps even more.
 
Curufinwe

Curufinwe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,924
DE
MMarston said:
lol David I mean

No idea where Michael came from
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It's easy to get Tobias and Michael mixed up.

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Barry Sandwich

Barry Sandwich

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
PhilosopherDirtBike said:
Popular opinion about the first half of the season was that Shawkat's storyline was the only good one, which I agree with
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It was half a season and the storyline's aren't finished, and I disagree.

Season 5 is a ton better than Season 4, which was itself pretty decent in both cuts. But the court of public opinion has turned.

If Arrested Development Season 1-3 was released today the internet would never give it a chance.
 
PhilosopherDirtBike

PhilosopherDirtBike

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,201
Barry Sandwich said:
It was half a season and the storyline's aren't finished, and I disagree.

Season 5 is a ton better than Season 4, which was itself pretty decent in both cuts. But the court of public opinion has turned.

If Arrested Development Season 1-3 was released today the internet would never give it a chance.
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If you think seasons 4-5 are at all comparable to the first 3 seasons, I don't know what to tell you. I was super hyped for season 5 and ready to love it and I think I laughed twice? The first three seasons are clean, sharp writing packed with jokes. Season 5 is an exhausted Ron Howard trying to explain the absolute mess the plot has become while the show occasionally pauses to try and make a joke, usually in the form of a low-effort callback. The difference is night and day.
 
HustleBun

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,075
Season 4 was unacceptable. A lot of great concepts and dreadful execution. The new characters were bad and Michael's character assassination removed the final bit of heart that the show still had. The first half of Season 5 tried to correct this but it didn't do enough to keep me.

I'm still hoping the second half of Season 5 is good. The trailer posted above gave me hope.
 
Porco Rosso

Porco Rosso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,209
Canada
Honestly I'm really enjoying this so far. It's leagues better than part 1 if season 5 to the point where I imagine it would be jarring to watch all at once
 
Tukarrs

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
There's like a 2 minute recap in the middle of episode 514. It's got weird pacing, but so far slightly better than the first half of Season 5.
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,136
The cop part and "You Will Pay" got me good actually. Lol. On episode 13 at the moment, so far certainly funnier than Part 1. The progression isn't as enjoyable as it has been, but I have some more to go though.
 
Barry Sandwich

Barry Sandwich

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
Finished. I enjoyed it and it's sad it's the end, but... no more. There are clearly too many problems behind the scenes to produce this to the standard it deserves.

Didn't Hurwitz originally state he'd outlined a plot for seasons 4-6? That outline has been cut short, because episode 16 rushed through a ton of plot and tied everything up, but I'm happy it at least reached a conclusion. I liked the murder mystery plotline but it was too heavy to stretch multiple seasons and it was also pretty dark. Kinda weird how:

Michael and George Michael just disappear. No send off. And less notably, Tobias' family just written out off-screen.

I don't think 4 & 5 are as bad as the reaction they've received. But part of the problem is in the edit and pacing. I guess when the show was being pushed to 22 minutes for networks they had to really squeeze the plot and humour in a way that benefited the show. The balance is off in the Netflix series, so you have episodes that are pretty much straight jokes, and then episodes that are all plot, with no self-contained stories. And they're constantly revisiting scenes in a way that is heavily laboured and bogged down compared to the earlier run. Perhaps binge watching doesn't help with the humour as part of what made the original call backs work was that they were being viewed weeks apart - when you're watching 7 episodes back-to-back, referencing an earlier scene doesn't spark an "oh shit that's a callback to..." moment, because the audience has literally just watched that scene an hour earlier.
 
War Peaceman

War Peaceman

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,441
Barry Sandwich said:
Finished. I enjoyed it and it's sad it's the end, but... no more. There are clearly too many problems behind the scenes to produce this to the standard it deserves.

Didn't Hurwitz originally state he'd outlined a plot for seasons 4-6? That outline has been cut short, because episode 16 rushed through a ton of plot and tied everything up, but I'm happy it at least reached a conclusion. I liked the murder mystery plotline but it was too heavy to stretch multiple seasons and it was also pretty dark. Kinda weird how:

Michael and George Michael just disappear. No send off. And less notably, Tobias' family just written out off-screen.
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That felt like they ran out of time filming a scene with Jason Bateman and Michael Cera, but it was a fitting end. Mirroring the original 'ending'.
 
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