• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,592
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/...ights/75-01edbf18-2c32-4d4e-8f07-2ae8e6820a5a

5d7f9a84d8d9f.image.jpg


PHOENIX —

Arizona's Supreme Court could issue a landmark decision Monday morning.

Does a six-year-old City of Phoenix ordinance barring discrimination against people in the LGBT community trample on a business owner's right to refuse service based on the owner's religious beliefs?

The high court will reveal its decision at 10 a.m. Monday in Brush & Nib Studio v City of Phoenix. It comes eight months after the court heard the case, an unusually long wait for a ruling.

The decision could break new ground. The U.S. Supreme Court has yet to directly address whether LGBT civil rights laws should allow a carve-out for a business owner's religious beliefs.

In 2013, the Phoenix City Council passed the civil rights ordinance protecting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender resident from discrimination.

The ordinance spawned an ugly debate at a City Council meeting that was moved to the Orpheum Theater.

Opponents, led by the Center for Arizona Policy's Cathi Herrod, derisively dubbed the ordinance the "bathroom bill," stoking fears that predators would stalk women's bathroom under the cover of being transgender women.

Non of the fears have come to pass. There have been few, if any, complaints filed under the ordinance.

The owners of the Brush & Nib studio in Phoenix, Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski, sell custom and off-the-shelf stationery and other paper goods for weddings and other special occasions.

They argue that the ordinance violates their religious and artistic freedom by forcing them to create wedding invitations for same-sex couples.

Briefs filed in the case revealed the business owners sued the City of Phoenix without ever having been the target of a complaint under the city's LGBT rights ordinance.


Testimony by Duka showed that Alliance Defending Freedom, the Scottsdale-based advocates for religious freedom representing Brush & Nib, wrote the company's operating agreement before filing the lawsuit against Phoenix.

The seven-page agreement declared that Brush & Nib "is owned solely by Christian artists who operate this entity as an extension of and in accordance with their artistic and religious beliefs." The agreement goes on to elaborate on Duka and Koski's religious beliefs.

The Arizona Court of Appeals rejected the Brush & Nib owners' claim that the Phoenix ordinance violates their religious freedom. The court ruled that ordinance regulates their conduct, not their beliefs.

Something is about to break coming from Arizona very soon and could be very messy. It should also be worrisome to tell you that the State's Governor, Doug Ducey, just stacked the courts to be very conservative
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
See, this is why you need federal laws for this sort of thing. Basic human rights are not something states should be allowed to just pretend don't exist.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
I wonder if any of the geniuses holding those signs of "let artists create freely" realize how ironic it is.
 

VISION

Member
Oct 25, 2017
988
Is it also okay to refuse Christians because religious beliefs?

What about like Catholics, specifically?
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Take this shit to its logical conclusion:

Bigots glom onto some long-dead belief to circumvent federal laws regulating Public Accommodations, and then whine and scream when not-shit people tell them to get the fuck outta their restaurant/ theater/ salon etc.
 

Thac0

Member
Nov 15, 2017
235
"Ah fuck, don't let me down, Arizona."
Was my original post and then I scrolled up 2 posts and was, in fact, let down.
 

moomoo14

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
441
Are they creating a general stationary without text, or do they also produce the text for the invitations? Because if its the latter, then this is the same thing as the gay wedding cake thing, where it'd violate their freedom of speech to be forced to produce a product with certain language used.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Religious freedoms more important than basic human rights?
So religious people are a higher class of being right?
Wonderful.

I fucking hate this planet.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Are they creating a general stationary without text, or do they also produce the text for the invitations? Because if its the latter, then this is the same thing as the gay wedding cake thing, where it'd violate their freedom of speech to be forced to produce a product with certain language used.
It's not their speech though, it's the free speech of whoever is commissioning their service. Or is that less important than their free speech?
 

C.Mongler

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,889
Washington, DC
I already got married, but I'll buy a pack of wedding invites from the first AZ shop to announce under this new ruling that they will no longer pander to Christian conservative shitheels as an exercise of their religious freedoms.
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I mean, the only right move would be to create a new religion that prevents people from working with people who don't respect LGBT people, and then make if you find out a person is homophobic, you're allowed to not hire them or not serve them because of your religious freedom.

That'd be tiring, but what could they do.

Also, can you also declare "being LGBT is a religion", and thus firing someone for being LGBT is religious discrimination?
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,239
If your religion is telling you to be racist then it's a religion not worth respect and shouldn't be protected by the law.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,679
Religious freedoms more important than basic human rights?
So religious people are a higher class of being right?
Wonderful.

I fucking hate this planet.
And down to its core, it's not even "Religious Freedom" more than it's "American Christian Right to be a Bigot". They don't give a damn about other religions, they just care they get a free pass to be an asshole because "I'ma Christian, and the Bible says I could be an asshole, so don't say I can't because you are against muh 'LIGOUS FREEDUMS!"
 

moomoo14

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
441
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory false equivalence concerning bigotry. Previously banned for defense of bigotry.
It's not their speech though, it's the free speech of whoever is commissioning their service. Or is that less important than their free speech?
That doesn't really make sense to me. This would be like saying that a Jewish family creating stationary for a customer wanting ironic nazi slogans on it should be forced to do it since they aren't the ones doing the speech, but the customer. It may be the customer's words, but the family is the one producing it in their product.

Refusing to provide stationary without words on it would be a violation of discrimination laws, as far as I know. But when you get words involved, then it gets more complicated. Because its going from a general product to one that has content within.
 

Maven

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,076
Earth
I just don't get how baking a cake for a gay couple you go apeshit over it.

I just don't get it
 

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Businesses don't have religious rights and never should be allowed to have them.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Pretty sure people back during Jim Crow days cited Muh Bible as a source for perpetuating segregation. In fact, quite recently there was a case about the owner/operator of a marriage-hall cited that her religious beliefs prevented her from hosting interracial marriage.

So... this is more proof that religious zealotry utter fuckery and those stand by their faith in order to discriminate should be.....
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
where in the bible does it say you can't do business with gay people?

evven sodom and gamorrah, the go-to for discrimination, doesn't seem to apply
 
Last edited:

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,832
Man what about the parts of Christianity where God and Jesus are like "love your fellow man and don't be a douche because you're all sinners in some way, leave the judgment to us."

I guess it's less sexy and fun to pay attention to those bits rather than using your religion as a weapon to spread hate and discrimination.