Are you willing to boycott ActiBlizzard after the recent actions taken against those who support Hong Kong?

[TRU]

Maybe you could stop trying to alternately downplay (one esports player...) and upplay (boycott all of China...) the thing people are talking about. I think it's safe to say I won't agree with any attempt you make to reframe the debate because, over the course of a series of posts, you've already demonstrated you are not engaging with the topic fairly.

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My opinion or thought has not wavered at all in this discussion. My points are as follows for clarity:

-It is pointless to boycott one company, when there are 100's and 1000's of other businesses that profit from this communist regime.
-It is ridiculous that the NBA and Activision have stirred up a "movement" for a week or so that no one cared at all about prior.
-An individual violated his terms of employment to make a stand, (a lot of people who make political stands usually come with a sacrifice of some sort, see Tiananmen Square when someone gave their lives for the movement vs a paycheck to play video games) and now has been penalized for costing the company who employs him money. (something that most people would have happen to them by their employers)
-By spending $1000's of dollars a year on products made in China, but boycotting Activision will not make anyone notice in that country.

The best analogy on how I feel about this protest is this:

-"I really am upset about how the farmers treat their animals so I am going to stop eating McDonald's hamburgers. BUT I am still going to eat hamburgers at Wendy's, Burger King, White Castle, etc."

 

[Razgriz417]

I had no Idea, I thought the entire China was "oppressive", so it was only Hong kong with the oppressive rule?
damn, now I look stupid, thanks for the explanation.

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HK gets to keep a pseudo demacracy for a few yrs before it reverts to complete PRC rule. The thing that makes it more complicated is that on its own, HK is dependent on mainland China for a lot of things

 

[Deleted member 18944]

I had no Idea, I thought the entire China was "oppressive", so it was only Hong kong with the oppressive rule?
damn, now I look stupid, thanks for the explanation.

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Hong Kong was the only Chinese territory that enjoyed basic freedoms and human rights that most enjoy in the west. Mainland China is attempting to suppress those values before the agreed upon reintegration year of 2055, where Hong Kong is no longer considered by China a separate state but part of mainland China.

Also you're not stupid. Not everyone is expected to be knowledgeable on things that happen on the other side of the planet.

 

[Homura]

No because I play Hearthstone with my friends

 

[ldcommando]

Easiest boycott ever, blizzard is trash

 

[Richiek]

It'll be interesting to see if sales for the Switch version of Overwatch will suffer because of the China controversy.

 

[EtaMari]

They crossed the line. I'm boycotting them. Bye Bye Overwatch.

 

[rras1994]

I had no Idea, I thought the entire China was "oppressive", so it was only Hong kong with the oppressive rule?
damn, now I look stupid, thanks for the explanation.

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How did you get China not being oppressive from that??? Yes, China is oppressive, they imprison anyone who protests against them, they have a genocide against Uighurs going on right now, and there's evidence they are raping, forced abortions, harvesting people for their organs etc. The Hong Kong issue is specifically that they were an overseas terriority of the UK til the 90's were they then were given to China as the deal which gave Hong Kong to UK ended then - as part of China getting Hong Kong they agreed to Hong Kong having their own governance and laws which aren't available in China, now China is going againsty that and Hong Kong people, who kind liked having free speach and other protections, are pissed and have been protesting, which China has then been clamping down on. There's also stories of China kidnapping important protestors to Mainland China. China is now flexing their power on people protesting for Hong Kong in other countries, which leds to a situation like this.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

The best analogy on how I feel about this protest is this:

-"I really am upset about how the farmers treat their animals so I am going to stop eating McDonald's hamburgers. BUT I am still going to eat hamburgers at Wendy's, Burger King, White Castle, etc."

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what a dog shit analogy that doesn't encapsulate this discussion at all.

 

[Concelhaut]

Blizzard was dead to me this decade anyway.

 

[voOsh]

No. My consumption of entertainment to me is worth more then the suffrage of any one or multiple peoples.

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holy shit lmao

 

[RayFoxII]

I spend about $300 a year on Hearthstone, $40-50 on Blizzcon's Virtual ticket, own every WoW Xpac and usually subscribe for half a year or so. This is just my annual stuff, I own every other Blizzard game they've ever launched on PC.

But Hearthstone has been kinda falling off lately and I've been enjoying the free Autochess games that are out. There's nothing much from Blizzcon's Virtual ticket that I can't just get from other sources/news sites anyway. And WoW's been going downhill for a while now so all those things combined with this kind of make it easy for me to just back out and say "Fuck off Blizzard".

 

[Deleted member 4976]

what a dog shit analogy that doesn't encapsulate this discussion at all.

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100% put better than what I was going to respond with.

 

[WGMBY]

Yeah, I'm pretty done with Blizz after this. I recently started playing OW again and was thinking of jumping back into WoW, but this has made me balk at spending my time and money on these games, especially when there are plenty of other things to play. I'm glad Destiny is out of ActiBlizz's hands now, since that was the last title that they had that I was really interested in.

 

[the32BitPlayers]

How did you get China not being oppressive from that??? Yes, China is oppressive, they imprison anyone who protests against them, they have a genocide against Uighurs going on right now, and there's evidence they are raping, forced abortions, harvesting people for their organs etc. The Hong Kong issue is specifically that they were an overseas terriority of the UK til the 90's were they then were given to China as the deal which gave Hong Kong to UK ended then - as part of China getting Hong Kong they agreed to Hong Kong having their own governance and laws which aren't available in China, now China is going againsty that and Hong Kong people, who kind liked having free speach and other protections, are pissed and have been protesting, which China has then been clamping down on. There's also stories of China kidnapping important protestors to Mainland China. China is now flexing their power on people protesting for Hong Kong in other countries, which leds to a situation like this.

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This is fucked up.

 

[TRU]

what a dog shit analogy that doesn't encapsulate this discussion at all.

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Sure it does. The idea of this protest is take a stand by only boycotting one product who does business with China, but no others.

 

[TSM]

Basically the people who want to conflate them just really want everyone to stop talking about the annoying real world thing

ActiBlizz is a US company.

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Yes, and boycotting them for not pushing back on the Chinese government is for most people asking them to do what they won't.

 

[Scuffed]

I think I am. Now to be honest I have been going cold on them for awhile now but that is how most things go, there is always a straw that breaks the camel's back. This won't be a large sacrifice because I already stopped buying into HS recently and only have a sub for Classic WoW. I could stop playing Classic and retail is just a mount farming simulator so ya I can cut ties np.

 

[Nome]

Hong Kong was the only Chinese territory that enjoyed basic freedoms and human rights that most enjoy in the west. Mainland China is attempting to suppress those values before the agreed upon reintegration year of 2055, where Hong Kong is no longer considered by China a separate state but part of mainland China.

Also you're not stupid. Not everyone is expected to be knowledgeable on things that happen on the other side of the planet.

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Macau enjoys similar rights (they still do AFAIK) and was handed over back to China the same year Hong Kong was.

 

[Zen]

Yes, and boycotting them for not pushing back on the Chinese government is for most people asking them to do what they won't.

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They have more influence and resources than most individual people do when it comes to making a statement. They aren't the same at all.

Like really, trying to point the finger at people using arbitrary metrics of what you consider sufficient and appropriate activism is pretty ridiculous.

 

[FairFight]

Unfortunately this is the world we live in. Corporate interests and the shareholders they're beholden to will always take precedent over what is right. This is the monster we've created. It's depressing as hell.

 

[Windows-PC]

No.

 

[scabobbs]

I haven't supported blizzard financially since blizzcon and don't intend on doing so again. They've lost their way, this is simply one more example among dozens now.

 

[SoundLad]

They've been a scum company and now all of a sudden now people are boycotting them because of this China issue when they should've been boycotted since they started becoming a company who doesn't care about the games they make they only care about how much profit they make. Along with other companies like EA, Ubisoft, Take Two, Bethesda.

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Because a company that "doesn't care about the games they make" in someone's opinion is not comparable to what happened to that HS player and those casters.

 

[TSM]

They have more influence and resources than most individual people do when it comes to making a statement. They aren't the same at all.

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That was my point. They aren't the same. Boycotting a US company does nothing to affect the situation in China while buying Chinese goods directly empowers the Chinese government. But boycotting the US company is an easy feel good move.

Like really, trying to point the finger at people using arbitrary metrics of what you consider sufficient and appropriate activism is pretty ridiculous.

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Like I said I have little interest in slactivism and my poor decisions in life pretty much saddled me solidly in the buying cheap Chinese goods income bracket.

 

[Alastor3]

Dunno. Not like anything matters.

Evil will always win as it has always been since the start of time.

Nothing matters.

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nice philosophy, that's exactly how we can change things up /s

 

[CerealKi11a]

My answer was going to be "undecided" since I don't buy or play any Blizzard games, but then I saw that thread where not only they suspended that pro player, but they took his prize money away? Nah screw that. I am now actively against them.

 

[Gestault]

I think broader commercial/business connections are one thing.

When a company directly implements silence/whitewashing policies to hide the existence of protests, and in fact takes active punitive actions against people for daring to mention the idea that Hong Kong should be free from China? That company has earned my hostility. That company deserves the "fruit" of what they're contributing to.

 

[Derktron]

Making shitty games is so different from suppressing democratic free speech in the middle of mass protests by people who want to self govern so that you can make more money from the oppressors. It's not even comparable.

I just want to keep hammering this home.

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It is comparable to many things, like I said they only see the money and that's what China provided them. It's why I said what I said about them. They should've been boycotted from a long time ago.

 

[Dark Knight]

Poeple boycotting games xD you will forget about all this stuff as soon as the next game come out...

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Lol what a feckless mega douche you're making yourself look like.
Clearly the concept of context is lost on you.

 

[Aurica]

No. My consumption of entertainment to me is worth more then the suffrage of any one or multiple peoples.

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I don't think suffrage means what you think it does.

 

[Zen]

That was my point. They aren't the same. Boycotting a US company does nothing to affect the situation in China while buying Chinese goods directly empowers the Chinese government. But boycotting the US company is an easy feel good move.

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It makes a statement and is arguably even more relevant since it's a US company kowtowing to another country's government.

 

[Nome]

That was my point. They aren't the same. Boycotting a US company does nothing to affect the situation in China while buying Chinese goods directly empowers the Chinese government. But boycotting the US company is an easy feel good move.

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I think the idea here is to show these companies that there's a tradeoff to their actions.
China is a big market, but per capita is not worth as much as Western customers. If Western customers actually DID follow through with their protests and actually boycott, these companies would absolutely listen. Although you're right that it's not necessarily going to impact how China behaves (by precedent, they'll probably just become more insular).

 

[Valet Jay]

.

 

[Velezcora]

If Activision-Blizzard was the only company I'd have to boycott to cut any financial ties to China than I would. Unfortunately that's not the case so I'm still going to buy from them and all the other companies that China profits from.

I do fully support educating the world about the atrocities and human rights violations performed by the Chinese government however. Perhaps if we can rally people maybe we can push for real change.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

This is an easy boycott for me, admittedly because I don't play many ActiBlizzard games as it is. Won't miss them one bit.

 

[slothrop]

My opinion or thought has not wavered at all in this discussion. My points are as follows for clarity:

-It is pointless to boycott one company, when there are 100's and 1000's of other businesses that profit from this communist regime.
-It is ridiculous that the NBA and Activision have stirred up a "movement" for a week or so that no one cared at all about prior.
-An individual violated his terms of employment to make a stand, (a lot of people who make political stands usually come with a sacrifice of some sort, see Tiananmen Square when someone gave their lives for the movement vs a paycheck to play video games) and now has been penalized for costing the company who employs him money. (something that most people would have happen to them by their employers)
-By spending $1000's of dollars a year on products made in China, but boycotting Activision will not make anyone notice in that country.

The best analogy on how I feel about this protest is this:

-"I really am upset about how the farmers treat their animals so I am going to stop eating McDonald's hamburgers. BUT I am still going to eat hamburgers at Wendy's, Burger King, White Castle, etc."

Click to shrink...

The anti China censorship and pro Hong Kong movement is not new. Google and other western companies have been dealing with it for a while. Google has actually given up on their Chinese censorship market due to enough pressure. ( Look up Dragonfly).It will keep coming and we have to keep resisting. I personally have cared about this issue for a while, sorry if you don't believe me.

I understand you point that the manufacturing profits in fact fuel the internal censorship by proxy. I disagree that this means we still shouldnt pressure companies in our own nations to not censor in these other markets.

Freedom of speech/democracy and economic dependence for manufacturing of goods in China are interrelated sure, but I think it's reasonable to say they are different enough that different tactics are feasible to put pressure on different adpects, and that we may have more direct leverage over one side of the issue than the other. Manufacturing is much more complex due to how broader it is embedded by now. To completely give up if you're imperfect is giving up leverage you have unnecessarily. These things also can snowball over time.

Furthermore freedom of speech for democracy are uniquely uniting in the US in particular, and they are a great starting point in practice to get the pressure on. If you can get the left and right in agreement on a starting point, this has great tactical value imo. Nobody says end it here.

Also the Hong Kong protests are only a few months old. This is a developing and active movement that is still very tense and could collapse at any moment. Our support for the Hong Kong people now in particular is of greater value than ever.

 

[TSM]

I think the idea here is to show these companies that there's a tradeoff to their actions.
China is a big market, but per capita is not worth as much as Western customers. If Western customers actually DID follow through with their protests and actually boycott, these companies would absolutely listen.

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I never said people shouldn't do it, but they also shouldn't pat themselves on the back for it either as it's literally the least they could do.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

I only play Classic WoW with a sub paid by farming gold in modern WoW last year so I haven't spent any money on Blizzard in a long time. I don't play their modern games, but I'd love to try Diablo 4. Guess not until this passes.

 

[Taco_Human]

Can't boycott if you never supported them in the first place. I'll just not buy any of their products.

 

[Weltall Zero]

The employees will be fine. Good lord

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I think his point is that some people have an easier time boycotting than others, due to their job. He's a games journalist; boycotting Blizzard has more repercussions for him than simply not playing their games.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Man, that last southpark episode was so on point regarding West entertainment companies being grabbed by the balls by China. Wonder if anything will change...

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, although I'm not really a big fan of theirs anyway. Never liked Diablo or warmed to Warcraft. I did love the hell out of Overwatch but I've been done with that for about a year now anyway. But yeah, fuck them.

 

[Hellsing321]

Yep was planning to get Overwatch on Switch but not anymore.

 

[TRU]

I support anyone's right to boycott Activision on this topic. And it is great that video game enthusiasts want to do their part.

But if you want to make a true impact and statement to assist the people of Hong Kong, then everyone who supports this boycott should boycott purchasing all next gen consoles that are made in China. Then you can get all of the game companies who do business with China in one punch.

You hit the the console makers first, and then you are cutting the cord to making revenue for all publishers including Activision who do business in China. That my friends is a TRUE Boycott.

 

[NHarmonic.]

No. My consumption of entertainment to me is worth more then the suffrage of any one or multiple peoples.

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This is one of the saddest posts i've ever read. Basically gamers in a nutshell, for a variety of topics.

Trash.

 

[GrimJawz]

I don't think suffrage means what you think it does.

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Ops meant to write suffering.

 

[TSM]

Man, that last southpark episode was so on point regarding West entertainment companies being grabbed by the balls by China. Wonder if anything will change...

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We already know what works in terms of encouraging governmental changes, but I highly doubt the world has the will for economic sanctions.

 

[DoradoWinston]

They don't really make games that interest me so even if I wanted to buy something from them there isn't anything to buy for me lol

Last games I got from them was the recent humble bundle and before that I was gifted Overwatch but other than that eh. If they have another game on humble bundle and it's a good deal I'll probably jump on it.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Yeah, fuck the practices they are doing. If human rights mean less to you than profit, then you are scum.