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Were you happy with how the story of the White Walkers and the Night King ended?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Nymir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
254
Why? The show goes to great lengths to show you why this time should be different vs others. If an enemy has a weakness and you exploit said weakness that's how they are defeated. The night king practically ignored everyone bc Bran knew how to defeat him. Without knowledge the NK would seem and be unstoppable.

Once again I feel posts like these are just mad their version of the story in your head didn't happen

It's not about my version of the story. The show established this looming threat in the North, so dangerous and unstoppable that they had to build a giant magic wall of ice spawning half a continent to contain, its effects so world altering that they probably reshaped how seasons work in this world. And you're telling me that one dragonglass wound is enough to permanently end it? Why didn't the children do it before then, when the Others went out of control? Why didn't they were killed during the original Long Night? It''s not only anticlimatic, but it doesn't fit with what was established before. Arya can kill the leader of the army, whatever, it can have interesting consequences too, but it shouldn't istantly end a thousand years threat with one hit.
 

Inyourprime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Couldn't care less who killed him. I just wanted more lore on the NK and the white walkers. There's three episodes left, so maybe they will touch on it at some point.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
Obvious satisfying ends, is what I said. Very few of the examples you cited were obvious. Cause and effect are huge parts of the story, I agree, but very often we aren't quite able to nail down the cause until we see the effect. Jon and Dany gathered the greatest army Westeros has ever seen at Winterfell to fight the dead. Without that army Arya wouldn't have survived long enough to be where she needed to be. Cause and effect.

Just not quite the cause and effect most people seem to have wanted to see.

EDIT: I personally liked these surprises. Again, they make sense if you look back through the for the cause.

Especially if that theory about Bran being LoL is accurate.
I feel like you can justify basically anything if you look hard enough. The fact is that Jon could have been down in the crypt and the episode would have been exactly the same. Bran could have been a wicker model painted to cleverly look like Bran, an the episode would have been exactly the same. For two characters for whom defeat of the Night King is their raison d'etre, that's not good enough. And now all that Jon's left with is this story about a) someone he didn't even know he was until 12 hours ago and b) an issue - the throne - he's repeatedly said he doesn't care about.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
It's not about my version of the story. The show established this looming threat in the North, so dangerous and unstoppable that they had to build a giant magic wall of ice spawning half a continent to contain, its effects so world altering that they probably reshaped how seasons work in this world. And you're telling me that one dragonglass wound is enough to permanently end it? Why didn't the children do it before then, when the Others went out of control? Why didn't they were killed during the original Long Night? It''s not only anticlimatic, but it doesn't fit with what was established before. Arya can kill the leader of the army, whatever, it can have interesting consequences too, but it shouldn't istantly end a thousand years threat with one hit.

"The mythical demonic threat that brought our legendary ancestors to their knees and took them decades to merely contain is back, and stronger than ever. This is the Winter that has been promised. The Long Night that threatens to blot out all life on the continent. Everything has led to this, and all petty squabbles throughout our entire known history pale in comparison to what we are facing now. How will we ever hope to counter this biblical threat?"

*five hours later*

 

Sinfamy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,724
I legitimately expected Bran to get out of his wheelchair and walk after literally everyone dies and the Night King approaches, and you find out it was just one of his time travel visions.
 

SupremeWu

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
2,856
I've rewatched it in reaction vids about 50 times and will probably 50 more so yes. Arya makes as much sense as anyone and lets admit it, no matter how he died, it was always going to be a dues ex instant win -- that was the entire way he was presented all along, it was hardly 'out of nowhere' or 'cheap'.

If Jon had killed him in one v one combat, it would have been entirely too predictable. This was surprising and, very fun.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,357
Liked that Arya ended him.

Did not like that we basically got nothing on who or what the Night King is and his motives. And that it was wrapped up in a single episode.
 

ColdDeckEd

Member
Jul 25, 2018
524
Liked that Arya ended him.

Did not like that we basically got nothing on who or what the Night King is and his motives. And that it was wrapped up in a single episode.

They literally showed how he became the night king afew seasons ago.

His motive? Pretty sure he just wants to kill everyone. But thats just conjecture based on what hes done the whole show.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,175
Arya soloing the Night King was what I predicted to my buds.

Now, I do feel like the threat could have been more fleshed out, but I do like that Winterfell was not to be fucked with (fully acknowledging the help they got). Feels like the people worth their shit came together to defend the world of men, while the pretenders just sat and waited it out.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,544
I don;t understand why people want more backstory and motives for the Night King. Why would an allegory for climate change have/need those things?
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
Arya killing the Night King via ninja move is fine with me...

I'm not fine with the "long Winter" we've been promised being over in one protracted episode.

I fully expected the NK to win the battle, the human survivors retreating South and players of the game finally put squabbling politics aside to face the threat, but no.

I hope GRRM is taking notes on the backlash and planning a different set of events for the book.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,280
Arya killing the Night King via ninja move is fine with me...

I'm not fine with the "long Winter" we've been promised being over in one protracted episode.

I fully expected the NK to win the battle, the human survivors retreating South and players of the game finally put squabbling politics aside to face the threat, but no.

I hope GRRM is taking notes on the backlash and planning a different set of events for the book.

the night king winning and forcing the survivors to retreat would only necessitate a bigger bullshit pull to defeat him and y'all'd be all "the long winter was supposed to be unstoppable and after all we've seen them do and all the armies they've destroyed all it to stop it was ______? why didn't they just do ______ at winterfell instead of waiting until now?"
 

CJSeven

Member
Oct 30, 2018
779
If you're going to conclude the WW story in one episode, it's not going to be very satisfying narratively, but fine, I know we have to wrap this show up. But if you're going to do that, you better make it great, and for the sole reason that they never had a single character other than Theon at the very end face off vs a WW, the episode is a complete failure.

Think about that, the highlight of the WWs in their final 80min long battle is walking in slow motion and one having their wispy hair moved by a flying Arya.

Take a page from Marvel's playbook and realize that more characters interacting/teaming up to fight the baddest of the bad = AWESOME. Hell, even within GoT itself some of the best moments are when characters from different arcs finally meet/fight.

And if they HAD gone this route of having our heroes fight directly with the white walker generals, had Jon, Brienne, and Jorah fight the NK himself (with the latter dying via him instead of random horde #326), and then had the same final scenes of NK about to kill Bran before Arya swoops in, no one would be saying "it would've been cooler if they had them fight no one and he just walked up slowly to Bran and then had Arya come in from no where to kill him"
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,788
the night king winning and forcing the survivors to retreat would only necessitate a bigger bullshit pull to defeat him and y'all'd be all "the long winter was supposed to be unstoppable and after all we've seen them do and all the armies they've destroyed all it to stop it was ______? why didn't they just do ______ at winterfell instead of waiting until now?"

consider this: the original plan was to enlist Cersei and her army's help in the fight against the dead.
They could've still removed her from the throne one way or another, and take control of her armies for a final stand against the Night King.

Or something something. I'm sure the writers are clever enough to think up different ways it could have gone.

It's not hard to understand why people wanted more than 1 episode to conclude such a long running storyline.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Arya killing the Night King via ninja move is fine with me...

I'm not fine with the "long Winter" we've been promised being over in one protracted episode.

I fully expected the NK to win the battle, the human survivors retreating South and players of the game finally put squabbling politics aside to face the threat, but no.

I hope GRRM is taking notes on the backlash and planning a different set of events for the book.

The story is the story.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,357
They literally showed how he became the night king afew seasons ago.

His motive? Pretty sure he just wants to kill everyone. But thats just conjecture based on what hes done the whole show.
I don;t understand why people want more backstory and motives for the Night King. Why would an allegory for climate change have/need those things?
Who was he? I'd forgotten then.

And there's obviously more to him that just being a force of nature or monstrous force that destroys. Otherwise he and the whitewalkers would have just insta-rushed Bran and killed everyone and not have toyed with him with a stand-off. There's more there...or at least it felt like there was.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
I don;t understand why people want more backstory and motives for the Night King. Why would an allegory for climate change have/need those things?
If you're going to use an allegory for climate change as an excuse for poor writing (they built up a mythic for the NK and directed the audience to have questions about him) why would an allegory for climate change be killable in its first real battle?
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
The Night King's motive has been known for a while. The children of the forest made him to kill all humans, and he took that mission to heart. Even deciding to kill the children of the forest after they made a pact with humans.

He's basically a rogue AI.

I feel like you can justify basically anything if you look hard enough. The fact is that Jon could have been down in the crypt and the episode would have been exactly the same. Bran could have been a wicker model painted to cleverly look like Bran, an the episode would have been exactly the same. For two characters for whom defeat of the Night King is their raison d'etre, that's not good enough. And now all that Jon's left with is this story about a) someone he didn't even know he was until 12 hours ago and b) an issue - the throne - he's repeatedly said he doesn't care about.

I mean, maybe you can justify anything if you look hard enough. I'm not denying that. I just think the particular justification they settled on was pretty satisfying.

Bran and Jon served their purposes very well. And hell, it's possible that everything that's happened in this show since the dagger first showed up in season 1 has been Bran orchestrating past events to get that dagger there, get Arya there, and give Arya the necessary training to kill the Night King the only way he knew how. Bran's gone warging but we don't know to where. Maybe he'll talk about it in the next episodes, who knows.

Jon's remaining story is actually pretty compelling, especially as you put it- the throne, something he has repeatedly said he doesn't care about. Yet the entirety of the north wants him on that throne. What will they say if he just steps aside? It's a pretty compelling situation at the moment. It's new for Jon. How does he cope in a world where he's accomplished his most major goal? What more does he want to do? What does he strive for? Why is he still alive, even? Those are all very interesting developments.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,896
Didn't this show get popular by defying expectations?
Seems like the last episode did its job then.

This simple fact of doing something people don't expect doesn't make something good it just makes it random. Quality writers can subvert while still being satisfying. Breaking Bad and The Wire did this very well. Plenty of wtf moments but they were amazing. Dexter did it poorly. Subverting expectations is just a meme it's not a defense for bad writing. Hell any show that goes to shit subverted an expectation in some way are they now good shows because of that? Expectation subversion has become the real plot armor.

The reality is that a larger undead march involving multiple battles would have blown up the budget with all the cgi and make up and was most likely expedited for logistical reasons nothing more.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,879
the night king winning and forcing the survivors to retreat would only necessitate a bigger bullshit pull to defeat him and y'all'd be all "the long winter was supposed to be unstoppable and after all we've seen them do and all the armies they've destroyed all it to stop it was ______? why didn't they just do ______ at winterfell instead of waiting until now?"

Exactly. Hell, just them being able to escape to begin with would be dumb
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,436
The reaction has not been "majority positive". It hasn't been "majority negative", sure, but it also hasn't been "majority positive".

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6027912/?ref_=ttep_ep3
urnSESC.png


https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s08/e03
dZwV5An.png



So far I cannot find anything that proves you right. He seems to be completely accurate when it comes to actual metrics. Majority positive, especially with audiences. Have any citations or data that proves otherwise?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6027912/?ref_=ttep_ep3
urnSESC.png


https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s08/e03
dZwV5An.png



So far I cannot find anything that proves you right. He seems to be completely accurate when it comes to actual metrics. Majority positive. Have any citations or data that proves otherwise?
As I pointed out, even one of the most criticized Game of Thrones episodes (Beyond the Wall) has a 9.2 on IMDB.

I have several critics reviews backing me up.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
Bran and Jon served their purposes very well. And hell, it's possible that everything that's happened in this show since the dagger first showed up in season 1 has been Bran orchestrating past events to get that dagger there, get Arya there, and give Arya the necessary training to kill the Night King the only way he knew how. Bran's gone warging but we don't know to where. Maybe he'll talk about it in the next episodes, who knows.
.

The problem is it didn't need to be that dagger and it didn't need to be Arya. Any of the millions of dragonglass tipped arrows they made could have killed the NK and no one would have needed to sneak through a crowd of zombies to do it.
 

Tabs2002

Member
Feb 1, 2018
1,514
I was underwhelmed. Since day one, we've been told winter is coming. I was not expecting everything to get wrapped up so quickly
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Yes. I never thought them to be an interesting adversary and I'm glad that they have been dealt with. In terms of drama and direction I don't think the episode could've been much better. Maybe if one or two more important characters would've been killed but it's not a big deal for me. All in all, one of the most intense battle scenes ever filmed and a historic moment for episodic TV.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
The problem is it didn't need to be that dagger and it didn't need to be Arya. Any of the millions of dragonglass tipped arrows they made could have killed the NK and no one would have needed to sneak through a crowd of zombies to do it.

We don't know that. We know this dagger is ancient, and there were pictures of it in some of the books at the Citadel. I don't remember where I saw it but I read that the dagger was originally dragonglass but then later reforged with a mix of dragonglass and Valerian steel. Maybe this was the same dagger used to animate him in the first place.

Maybe this was literally the only thing that could kill him. Dragon fire sure couldn't.

As for Arya, I went over that before. She's the stealthiest character in the show. Brute force didn't work (Jon got pinned down by wights and a dragon), aerial ranged attacks didn't work (dragon fire), stealth was their best option.

Whatever the case, Bran knew exactly what was going to happen the whole time, that much is clear. He gave Arya that dagger in season 7 exactly where she needed to use it in season 8.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
the night king winning and forcing the survivors to retreat would only necessitate a bigger bullshit pull to defeat him and y'all'd be all "the long winter was supposed to be unstoppable and after all we've seen them do and all the armies they've destroyed all it to stop it was ______? why didn't they just do ______ at winterfell instead of waiting until now?"

I would say that the buildup the whole time has been to a supernatural solution to the problem. Whether it comes across as a deus ex ass-pull is up to the quality of whatever Martin comes up with, but to me "no you just have to stab him in the right spot" is way more out of nowhere and lame than, for example, someone figuring out the actual identity and properties of something like say the horn of winter, how to properly use it, and who must fulfill whatever prophecies to use it, and having that be the way the threat is ended. That's not very robust or all that good because I just came up with it during the two minutes that I've taken to write this post, but even that would be more satisfying to me than "lol just git 'im where there's no armor"

Like, all of the houses have a mythical heroic founder. Maybe there's something that each of those founders created or contributed to that requires a direct descendant to properly use, so that's why you need Theon and a Stark and Dany and Jaime and Gendry etc all together during a last stand. I don't know. Something like that is big and meaningful and utilizes the history and lore of the series. Maybe Euron is the one who finds it or figures it out due to his extensive travels and use of dark magic, and he and Cersei are about to misuse it and make things a lot worse, and everyone has to take them out first. I'm just winging this here but these are things you can do beyond "nah just stab him and its over"
 
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dtcm83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
533
I am satisfied, I can think of other ways the episode/plot arch could have concluded, but they aren't necessarily any better than what we saw play out. Kudos to everyone involved in making a TV show battle as awesome as any movie-quality battle I've ever seen.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,436
As I pointed out, even one of the most criticized Game of Thrones episodes (Beyond the Wall) has a 9.2 on IMDB.

I have several critics reviews backing me up.



You said the reaction to THIS episode, the one we are talking about in this thread; was NOT majority positive. Every piece of data I listed and can find proves that statement wrong. Not sure what bringing up an episode from last season does, but it doesn't make the statement you made any less wrong. If you have data that says otherwise Im open to it. But until then, yes this episode is seen as positive by the majority, both viewer and critic, making the people that found it enjoyable, completely and specifically, not weird.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
You said the reaction to THIS episode, the one we are talking about in this thread; was NOT majority positive. Every piece of data I listed and can find proves that statement wrong. Not sure what bringing up an episode from last season does, but it doesn't make the statement you made any less wrong.
I'm saying the reaction to THIS episode is not majorly positive, because most critics reviews are at best ambivalent to it. You linking to a site where the most criticized episode in the series ALSO scored highly doesn't change that.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,436
I'm saying the reaction to THIS episode is not majorly positive, because most critics reviews are at best ambivalent to it. You linking to a site where the most criticized episode in the series ALSO scored highly doesn't change that.

No, me linking to a critic website where critics rated it:

Episode Reviews: 87

Fresh: 64

Rotten: 23


Does however change that. Because the critics are majority positive on it. Objectively.... Take it up with the data, not me.

Remember when you said

No, since critical and popular reception on this episode is mixed across the board.

And now you are zoning in on critics only? Which is also not supported by the data? Yeah, we all do. Its on this page.
 

Robdraggoo

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,455
I loved this episode more than endgame. And i slso loved endgame. Throwing in that crazy warriors-rockets game. This was the best weekend for entertainment in a long ass time.