Are you interested in Chinese culture?

[Lonewolf]

Interesting I'll keep my eye on Water Margin. I hadn't heard of it before! Oh and I actually have started reading Journey to the West though I am just on volume 1. I also have something I have to get off my chest about Journey to the West. Shit is a hard read lol. Mostly because I am unfamiliar to Buddhist teachings and stories outside of a cursory understanding of it. Which makes some parts of the book a damn hard read. Still I want to make one other thing clear. Even though I am struggling with the book and constantly have to read the reference guide in the back of the book to understand stuff. I'm still enjoying the shit out of my read for this classic.

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Ever play any of the Suikoden RPGs by Konami? The basic idea of those games (the 108 stars of Destiny concept, and having a base where you gather all these characters into a sort of rebel army) comes from Water Margin, you can even draw some comparisons between some of the game characters and their respective character in the book in the early games. The basic premise of the novel is there is a corrupt official whose actions cause (either directly or indirectly, depending on the character) the formation of a large bandit camp out in a marsh made up of people who basically hate him and want him dead. The early chapters consist of how these numerous characters came to be outlaws and made their way into the marsh. It's sort of like Robin Hood, if I were to compare it with a western story, only with 108 characters, and more cannibalism and poisoned tea.

The Plum in the Golden Vase is actually based on a couple of minor characters from Water Margin, with their final fate retconned from that story. It's the story of a woman who is married to the brother of one of the bandits who murders the brother so she can marry a prosperous merchant. The merchant has like six wives and concubines, including her, and most of the chapters have explicit sex scenes with the merchant and like 20 different people, including his wives and concubines (which led to it being a banned book for most of it's existence). In Water Margin, the Bandit tracks them down and kills the merchant in broad daylight as revenge for his brothers murder, while at the end of The Plum in the Golden Vase the merchant dies of an overdose of the aphrodisiac given to him by the murderess. Which is why I called it a fanfic. ;) Also, fun fact: Jackie Chan's very first movie role was as a minor character of an adaption of this novel to film.

Yeah the Buddhist influence can trip you up and Journey to the West is probably the hardest for westerners to get into and understand, but compared to Water Margin and Romance of the Three Kingdoms, it has a much more manageable cast of characters to keep track of, and who doesn't like the Monkey King. ;)

 

[Snack12367]

I like aspects Chinese culture and I think it's defiantly worth exploring through media and personal interaction. I would love to go to China one day, but I don't think I can, for the same reason I only like aspects and not the whole. There is a lot of fucked up shit going on in China right now. The Government is pulling shit that I find morally abhorrent and I can't in good mind support that country.

 

[ninnanuam]

I was quite into Chinese history and older culture for a few years.

However mainland modern mainstream (authorised) artistic contributions have been underwhelming in almost all instances.

Also I need my skeletons.

 

[papermoon]

Anti Chinese sentiment is strong here. I'm worried about attitudes towards Chinese and by extension people of Chinese descent in Western countries going forward.

Chinese culture and history especially of the many different Chinese diaspora are definitely a personal passion of mine. I do worry about the current culture of the mainland which feels foreign to me at times.

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Anti Chinese sentiment will probably end up affecting all people of East Asian descent in Western countries. When I criticize the Chinese govt or the deep nationalism that tries to excuse the wrongdoing the Chinese govt perpetrates, I do it with that awareness. If anti-Chinese-government feelings mutate into something more sinister, irrational, then I know - from history and personal experience of being mistaken for or treated as "Chinese" - that non-Chinese Asian Americans like me will be targeted.

But - as of now - it hasn't. If anything, because of Chinese economic power and influence, the fucked up shit China does is muted, ignored, excused. And I've come down the side that - right now - trying to bury legitimate criticism of China by muddling it up as general anti-Chinese prejudice (or even anti-Asian racism) is not going to fly.

Right now, within its borders, China is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. What about those Asians? Certain plans China has in place are going to devastate some of their neighboring countries. That's all whatever, I guess.

China hasn't been able to export its contemporary pop culture to the point of gaining a meaningful foothold in the West. But they're exporting other current cultural artifacts too. The rampant and blatant IP theft from non-Chinese businesses - that's culture. Monitoring/tracking members of university organizations deemed anti-Chinese: that practice is peak contemporary Chinese culture. The warped nationalism that rages at the election of a student body president who happens to be Tibetan as anti-Chinese: that is culture.

Whether they know it or not, these are some of the touchstones of current Chinese culture as created by their government and accepted (via force/propaganda) by big swaths of their society. Culture is more than an entertainment product packaged for mass consumption. China's going to flex how its going to flex, but in doing so they reveal their society's current values and practices and that's as much culture as anything.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Wanna hear the opinion of someone who's lived in China BladeoftheImmortal

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It's alright over there. But because of all the guidelines and censorship most entertainment is very samey with little deviation.

 

[Powdered Egg]

I'm not really interested. I'm more interested in Chinese-American history and their fight against White supremacy. Hero:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabel_Ping-Hua_Lee

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Chinese cuisine I'm down with. That's about it.

Hopefully most aspects of their old culture don't get totally lost in time. The Chinese Government seems keen on eradicating stuff they don't like. As someone who's own cultural heritage has been torn apart over the past few decades, I know how easily culture can be removed by Governments and I'd hope China doesn't make the same mistakes as well

 

[Slim]

Jackie Chan and Jet Li are kool.

 

[Deleted member 907]

Anti Chinese sentiment will probably end up affecting all people of East Asian descent in Western countries. When I criticize the Chinese govt or the deep nationalism that tries to excuse the wrongdoing the Chinese govt perpetrates, I do it with that awareness. If anti-Chinese-government feelings mutate into something more sinister, irrational, then I know - from history and personal experience of being mistaken for or treated as "Chinese" - that non-Chinese Asian Americans like me will be targeted.

But - as of now - it hasn't. If anything, because of Chinese economic power and influence, the fucked up shit China does is muted, ignored, excused. And I've come down the side that - right now - trying to bury legitimate criticism of China by muddling it up as general anti-Chinese prejudice (or even anti-Asian racism) is not going to fly.

Right now, within its borders, China is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. What about those Asians? Certain plans China has in place are going to devastate some of their neighboring countries. That's all whatever, I guess.

China hasn't been able to export its contemporary pop culture to the point of gaining a meaningful foothold in the West. But they're exporting other current cultural artifacts too. The rampant and blatant IP theft from non-Chinese businesses - that's culture. Monitoring/tracking members of university organizations deemed anti-Chinese: that practice is peak contemporary Chinese culture. The warped nationalism that rages at the election of a student body president who happens to be Tibetan as anti-Chinese: that is culture.

Whether they know it or not, these are some of the touchstones of current Chinese culture as created by their government and accepted (via force/propaganda) by big swaths of their society. Culture is more than an entertainment product packaged for mass consumption. China's going to flex how its going to flex, but in doing so they reveal their society's current values and practices and that's as much culture as anything.

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The days of the pogroms in Chinatowns might be over, but that just means it's taken other less violent forms. The same rhetoric led to Vincent Chin and violence against countless Asians. If you've been targeted before, what makes you think you won't be targeted again? All that rhetoric is cumulative.

i don't know how you can say that criticism of the Chinese government isn't criticism of it's people in one part of your post and then completely refute that in your closing argument. Maybe a little more introspection is needed here.

If there wasn't an undercurrent of anti-Chinese sentiment, none of us so-called "wumao" and "CCP apologists" would even mention it. You can look at the Vodafone thread for it and see if there are any usual suspects that flock to those types of threads.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

This is getting to be like peak racism at this point

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Which post? Or are you implying that to say you aren't interested in a culture or are against a government is a racist statement?

 

[ethranes]

Which post? Or are you implying that to say you aren't interested in a culture or are against a government is a racist statement?

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I'm not implying anything, just look at some of the posts here

 

[Deleted member 1635]

I'm not implying anything, just look at some of the posts here

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Again, which post? If there's something you genuinely feel is "peak racism" you should report it. I've seen some ignorant stuff that may be trolling ("karate," "samurai"), but nothing that looks genuinely racist.

 

[Khamsinvera]

General Tso's chicken is the only Chinese culture I'm interested in ... so, no IDGAF

 

[papermoon]

The days of the pogroms in Chinatowns might be over, but that just means it's taken other less violent forms. The same rhetoric led to Vincent Chin and violence against countless Asians. If you've been targeted before, what makes you think you won't be targeted again? All that rhetoric is cumulative.

i don't know how you can say that criticism of the Chinese government isn't criticism of it's people in one part of your post and then completely refute that in your closing argument. Maybe a little more introspection is needed here.

If there wasn't an undercurrent of anti-Chinese sentiment, none of us so-called "wumao" and "CCP apologists" would even mention it. You can look at the Vodafone thread for it and see if there are any usual suspects that flock to those types of threads.

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Racism against Asian Americans is real. Violence against Asian Americans is real. The painful history of it is real. And I understand the protective instinct that can rise from deep sore spots when criticism's levied against someone's ancestral homeland. And the skepticism that greets any criticism related to that country as veiled racism. I understand it, and I validate the historical reasons that naturally give rise to that reaction. But I don't agree with it being it used to dismiss critiques of China today. The humanitarian, environmental, and corporate crimes China perpetrates are too severe and endanger millions and millions of actual Asians today or in the near future. Those criticisms are legitimate.

I didn't say the bolded. Others have said that in this thread, but I didn't. I don't support blaming Chinese nationals wholesale or monolithically. Almost 1.5 billion people. Of course not. But critiquing elements of contemporary Chinese culture? Yes, that's valid. Culture is not just a product - an entity separate from people. Culture is shaped by the government and political systems we live in. People react to those political structures - rejection, acceptance, apathy, a mix of all the above. People are carriers and actors of that culture. Culture is the reality and choices of the people who live it out.

There are international Chinese university students in the West who are tracking and reporting on the activities of fellow students for "anti-Chinese" activity at the behest of their consulate. It's a Chinese gov't activity/policy carried out by human beings. Human beings nurtured in a culture where intrusive government monitoring is the norm and is seen by many as benevolent. All societies and cultures are shaped by government. Gov't monitoring is a cultural norm in contemporary Chinese society. And these international students are - whether the Chinese gov't intends it or not - ambassadors of modern Chinese culture.

Is it problematic to talk about these student's activities as poisonous and unacceptable in a free, democratic society, because recording/reporting on fellow students is an intimate human activity? If only this paranoid political intimidation were carried out solely by some distant, faceless gov't entity, then I suppose it would be acceptable for critique. It's not though. It's carried out by people in the context of a culture that increasingly accepts this kind of political coercion as normal. And I understand this is where things get messy between identifying government vs its people acting on its behalf. But I bristle at Asian Americans and other diaspora Asians being called to cape for this kind of bullshit or else be branded as perhaps out-of-touch or a collaborator or worse with respect to their race and their history. No thank you.

And yes, we could all benefit from a little more introspection.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

While I get the way the topic is titled invites people to come in and say "no", but if you're not interested, why post in this thread at all? Like, oh boy I better let the world know how uninterested I am in Chinese culture? Where's the appeal in that?

 

[Griffith]

There are parts of the Chinese culture that I appreciate. I enjoy the (westernized) Chinese food, I like some of their folklore and legends but it bothers me that they are aggressively trying to destroy other cultures that exist within their territory. The current Dalai Lama might be the last and that's just one of the examples of cultural heritage that is threatened by the Chinese Government.

 

[Akira86]

pre-modern, yeah, of course.

post-modern, 20th century and on China seems just as depressing and sad as the rest of the world.

 

[Deleted member 16908]

The West's reluctance on accepting anything other than English is such a huge barrier to Chinese culture catching on here. I mean Japan has anime and anime is huge but ultimately Japanese culture is but a very very small thing in the west, Korea had K-pop and K-pop culture could be argued is just black culture but in Korean, and Korean culture as a whole isn't taking off here either, BTS is making great inroads and obviously there's Kia and Hyundai, and Korean electronics but most ppl in the west probably wouldn't be able to tell you that they're Korean in particular.



Don't be so sure on that lol, they may not be able to overtake say MS, Google, Apple but they can and are well on their way to having major influence in software lol

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K-pop is just black culture but in Korean? What?

I can see why you would say that since there are a lot of K-pop groups that take inspiration from rap and hip-hop but I still don't think it's accurate to say that K-pop as a whole is just black culture in their language.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

While I get the way the topic is titled invites people to come in and say "no", but if you're not interested, why post in this thread at all? Like, oh boy I better let the world know how uninterested I am in Chinese culture? Where's the appeal in that?

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This would be a legitimate criticism if the OP was phrased as something like, "What do you think about Chinese culture?"

 

[Dyle]

While I get the way the topic is titled invites people to come in and say "no", but if you're not interested, why post in this thread at all? Like, oh boy I better let the world know how uninterested I am in Chinese culture? Where's the appeal in that?

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For me it's about discussing why you can't get into it and how those barriers prevent you from getting involved in a potentially rich and interesting set of experiences. It's not that I don't want to be involved in Chinese culture, but that it's pretty inaccessible for me, between language barriers, the challenges of finding and consuming it, and the potential moral hangups of consumption of that culture due to the government's policies about that culture. The read I get from it is that most posters here want to learn more but can't or choose to follow the path of least resistance by learning more about other cultures with fewer challenges.

It's why the comparisons to Japanese culture are totally valid, because Japanese culture has been sold and distributed widely throughout the Western world, but Chinese culture has never gotten a foothold in the same way. People here are largely more interested in Japan because it's easier to find Japanese cultural content that they can consume and enjoy. It's an example of what the OP is talking about in regards to soft power and China's difficulty in effectively marketing their ideas and culture as a major influence in western countries.

 

[Limit]

Definitely. I want to learn about modern china, more than anything. The way they are using technology to enhance their authoritarian powers, and how the populace is dealing with it externally and internally, is all super interesting to me.

 

[Phendrana]

I have absolutely no interest in Chinese culture, or in visiting the country.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Those saying they have no interests in Chinese culture, better not be eating Chinese food. That's part of culture, even if it's Chinese American food.

It's okay to like food even if you have no interests in exploring the rest of the culture.

 

[Deleted member 19218]

My girlfriend is Chinese, I would love to go because I can seperate the government from the people. However the government still scares me and puts me off somewhat.

I would love to go to 四川 province which is famous for its spicy food and panda zoo. I love both.

 

[Deleted member 46493]

Mao Zedong killed most interesting aspects of Chinese culture outside of the food.

 

[Deleted member 32561]

Not really. I don't even know about any of their pop culture. As for their traditional culture, I really only care enough as I do for most European nations - in other words, it's cool to learn about, but very low on my list to take time to experience it in that country itself. Maybe Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Taiwan sometime but otherwise... Eh. Seeing some of the landmarks in other areas of China would be cool but idk if spending a day's worth time to check out the Temple of Heaven or a section of the Great Wall for an hour is in my interest.

 

[peyrin]

some responses in here are giving me strong white people wishing each other gung hay fat choy vibes

 

[Keasar]

Yeah I could learn a bit.
Mostly the parts that the Chinese government doesn't want me to learn about. China is a GIANT country and from what I've gathered it's really not that homogeneous despite the CCP's efforts. Would be quite fun to look more into the fringe cultures around China.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I like the food and their cheap cellphones.

 

[Zelas]

Nope. To much racism and importance placed on superficial bullshit.