My grampa did and he couldn't go anywhere else cuz they were all paying that much, its pathetic how little they used to pay people
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Are you cheap if you don’t tip? (American tipping culture)
- Thread starter DongBeetle
- Start date
My grampa did and he couldn't go anywhere else cuz they were all paying that much, its pathetic how little they used to pay people
The scenario you're arguing for (people with utterly horrible lives that have enough money to cover the meal but not enough to cover the tip, and for whom the experience of eating out at a restaurant is *needed* to assuage their condition, but for whom ordering the food to go and eating at a park doesn't provide relief) comes off as ridiculous at worst and rare to the point of irrelevance at best.
If you don't tip in the US you aren't just cheap, you are a fucking asshole and should be ashamed of yourself. The system is trash and it needs to change, but stiffing a minimum wage worker isn't helping anyone.
America pretty much takes the stance of this is how it is, it shouldn't be this way but nobody will change it.
This applies to tipping, health care and gun regulations and probably other stuff too.
This applies to tipping, health care and gun regulations and probably other stuff too.
when i visit the U.S i tip because that's how it is in your country but i don't follow all those bullshit rules people said i must, like percentages. i just tip what i feel is right for the service i was offered.
in germany i only tip bartender (specifically places i am frequently at, like my fav metal/rock bars etc), and the friseur. also if something is delivered but the delivery doesn't include "to the door", then I ask the delivery person(s) if they can carry it up for me to my apartment - most people in germany that are < 40 at least do not live in ground floor homes/houses, so things are delivered technically to the kerb, so if it's an apartment building the delivery doesn't mean they take it all the way up or w/e, that's why I ask and if they agree, i tip them, usually 5-10 euros per person. that's usually stuff like TVs or w/e.
i feel like a tip is that for doing work outside of your normal expected work, like the delivery example, or tipping a place I like to support a little extra of the people that work there that are "institutions" like local bars and my friseur. never tip at places like chains, makes no sense.
in germany i only tip bartender (specifically places i am frequently at, like my fav metal/rock bars etc), and the friseur. also if something is delivered but the delivery doesn't include "to the door", then I ask the delivery person(s) if they can carry it up for me to my apartment - most people in germany that are < 40 at least do not live in ground floor homes/houses, so things are delivered technically to the kerb, so if it's an apartment building the delivery doesn't mean they take it all the way up or w/e, that's why I ask and if they agree, i tip them, usually 5-10 euros per person. that's usually stuff like TVs or w/e.
i feel like a tip is that for doing work outside of your normal expected work, like the delivery example, or tipping a place I like to support a little extra of the people that work there that are "institutions" like local bars and my friseur. never tip at places like chains, makes no sense.
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When I worked as a server out of college, oh man let me tell you I was ROLLING IN IT. $2.13 an hour, stupid cheap ass chucklefucks stiffing me 2-3 times a day, and yet as amazing as that sounds I haven't even gotten to the best part - FREE SHIFT MEALS.
Oh yeah, man, I was livin' that high life. Me and Bezos, we were two of a kind. I hope the revolution spares me.
It was pretty consistent only because the number of people stiffing you on the bills remained relatively consistent. There were always outliers, though, with weekends where I'd bring home 50% more or 30% less or something.
It's going against the idea that EVERY person needs to tip or they should stay home. So, no, it's countering that with a realistic and fair scenario.
Your park talk is the silly thing here, imo.
It isn't realistic to say that anybody needs to not tip. There are tipless earing options that are also pleasurable. If the experience of being waited on is so valuable, why wouldn't the waitstaff deserve compensation?
The situation I outlined is realistic but uncommon. If you can afford it, and most can, you should.
Is the standard tip in the US 20%? Cause that's pretty high, unless the food there is considerably cheaper than the rest of the world. And what do you do if the service was good but the food was terrible, bad, etc,.?
This whole process sucks for both the consumers and the waiters who have to rely on tips. If your meal cost 10 dollars, an extra $2 is probably not a big deal, but if its something like a $50 meal, the extra 20% is not negligible for those who don't live comfortably but would like to go out for a decent meal. This also gets tricky if it's in something like a nightclub where the prices are ridiculous and your bill is +$1000, does the waiter then really deserve a +$200 tip?
This whole process sucks for both the consumers and the waiters who have to rely on tips. If your meal cost 10 dollars, an extra $2 is probably not a big deal, but if its something like a $50 meal, the extra 20% is not negligible for those who don't live comfortably but would like to go out for a decent meal. This also gets tricky if it's in something like a nightclub where the prices are ridiculous and your bill is +$1000, does the waiter then really deserve a +$200 tip?
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Tip culture is weird especially within the bar and food service industry. It's like the system exists to remove responsibility from employers to pay their employees well and places it on the customer. A living wage should be worked out between the staff and their employers. Most people don't tip the service technician that's repairs your car, you know the thing that's responsible for getting you safely back and forth to work every day, but heaven forbid that server that brought you a dinner plate and some drinks not get their 15-20%. Now I'm fine with rewarding someone for a job well done, but the expectation is silly.
I would argue if you can afford a $50 meal, you could also take a slightly cheaper option (like getting tap water instead of a drink) and pay the tip, honestly. That is what I would do, at least.
What I find weird about tipping is that it's percentage based, it's the same work if I order a $1000 bottle of wine or a $10 yet I'm supposed to tip way more?
You to the server but talk to the manager about the food. The tip isn't really meant for the BOH since they get paid at least minimum wage; servers don't.
This is precious since we all know in practice FOH makes way more than BOH in almost any setting, even when taking into account customers who don't tip. With that said, if for whatever reason you do not make it to hourly minimum wage with tips as FOH, your employer has to pay the difference to get your wage to minimum. It's imaginable that many FOH staff might not even know this since it's unlikely they've ever landed at below minimum wage after tips.
People love to bitch and moan about tipping but nobody really gives a shit about how overworked and underpaid BOH is, where best case scenario they get a minuscule share of FOH tips, consistently still putting them well below the pay FOH gets.
The truth is FOH staff work directly with customers and get insanely salty as they take getting stiffed as some kind of personal slight, when in reality you know damn well you're generally making bank for unskilled work, that's why you're working as a server and not a minimum wage job somewhere else.
lol I do still always tip, and I symphathize, I just think the system screws with everyone involved and helps very little compared to places like Japan or countries in EU where they don't tip and have proper wages and social safety nets.
What I mean to say is, that waiters be exploited for $2/hr because of this fucked up system.
What I mean to say is, that waiters be exploited for $2/hr because of this fucked up system.
That sounds illegal (the taking the credit card tips and not paying it out to employees). Is there no law against that? Did you guys split the pot evenly or did you distribute according to the tips left on the tables you waited on(which I would think would be the case even though it means more paperwork)?
Wat lol. Yes anyone that doesn't tip shouldn't be at a restaurant.
although I hate tipping culture it is what it is. Just assume before you decide to go that the food has an 18%+ service charge that you must add yourself but if you are so disgusted by the service you received you may reduce that charge as you wish.
although I hate tipping culture it is what it is. Just assume before you decide to go that the food has an 18%+ service charge that you must add yourself but if you are so disgusted by the service you received you may reduce that charge as you wish.
This is the truth. When the kitchen gets in the weeds, the BOH gets shat on. When the line is running smooth though, BOH never gets the credit.
I will say that the FOH should get more because they are the "face" of the restaurant as the interaction point, but BOH never gets the recognition they deserve.
Naw. And don't feel shamed or pressured. Tipping is part of a broken system. You can choose to partake or not. It doesn't change how decent you are as a person.
It's like when you order takeout: it is the same price even though the cost of the food includes a customer's ass in the chair price.
It's like when you order takeout: it is the same price even though the cost of the food includes a customer's ass in the chair price.
Tipping is part of the cost of the meal. Prices for food are what they are because of tips. I've been to restaurants that tell you in the menu that prices are higher because they got rid of tipping. I'm also a landlord and one of my tenants is a restaurant and the owner has told me that he's had to raise food prices when he increased base wages.
The way I look at it, if you don't tip, you're giving yourself a discount on the meal.
The way I look at it, if you don't tip, you're giving yourself a discount on the meal.
Yes, because a picnic in the park just won't soothe out the rough edges of a live in poverty like forcing another poor person to serve you for free.
I eat out, very often in fact, and I often leave generous tips. Luckily I don't live in a country where tipping is morally mandatory because this way I can tip when it's in any way deserved. I tip at restaurants, takeaways, pizza guys, sometimes even at bars. Making me feel like shit for not doing it sometimes because the guy working there isn't getting paid enough... well, it's not my job. I work as an internal IT at a company. It's not like I get 5-10 Euros whenever I restart someone's computer or change their toner because I am already paid for my job, and it's not other people's job to pay me for doing my job in hours I am already being paid for.
Your entire argument falls apart when you realize that you the person you keep saying "did his paid job" ignores the fact it is YOUR responsibility to pay him for the job he did. All those other examples you gave have the person being paid for the work by the employer. That's not the case with waiters/waitress'/bartenders. You took their service, and didn't pay for it. Yes you can make the argument that the system is stupid and complicated if your not accustomed to it, but that's the current system. If you agree to participate in it (by going to a restaurant) you agree to pay via the system in place. If you don't tip then you have not fully paid for the service, and are doing nothing but screwing over the waiter/waitress. You voluntarily agreed to accept a service and not pay for it. You can argue against the way you pay for it all you want, but you flat out did NOT pay for the service you were given. Justify it all you want, but that's what it comes down to. If you knowingly do this, you're an asshole (general "you") and screwing over the people that bring you your food.
In America, absolutely. Not tipping doesn't "fix" the broken systems of the service industry, it only hurts the servers. If you're adamant on fixing the system, VOTE TO FIX THE SYSTEM y increasing minimum wage across the board (even for workers in the service industry).
Not tipping is not cool.
Not tipping is not cool.
"You don't have to pay for people doing a job for you if your too poor"
"Im too poor, mow my yard for free. Im too poor, weed my garden for free. Im too poor, clean my house for free, it will be an escape from my stressful life" etc etc. That's what your advocating for.
Let's be accurate to your scenario -- it should read: "Go eat in the park if you're too poor to afford a tip, but rich enough to afford the food, and if your existence is utterly horrible, and if restaurant food is the only thing that would soothe out the rough edges of your existence."
I've explained my piece, as someone who worked for a decent time in that industry and was directly affected by this I consider it fair.
It was always clear when people could not afford much, I've even turned down tips from people who were counting pennies who had ordered cheap meals and water.
It works both ways.
Or you could have a polite conversation about it like an adult?
Literally never ran into a person like you in this situation, lol.
Notice how it's the paying customer who's an 'asshole', whereas people who knowingly work a job that fucks the paying customer and allows them to evade their taxes are somehow the 'working class' (always assuming the customer is 'upper class'). I call this 'class treason' for a variety of reasons.
I've accepted the fact it's another awfully and solely American stupid thing (like guns) but the amount of people from the states defending it just because 'it's the system man', is staggering.
I've accepted the fact it's another awfully and solely American stupid thing (like guns) but the amount of people from the states defending it just because 'it's the system man', is staggering.
Which is very kind of you and very thoughtful. But you should never EXPECT someone to do that, and you should never FORCE someone to do something nice. Maybe that server was also having a shitty day or barely able to pay the bills... you let the server make that choice.
You've worked in the service industry in a different country with a different cultural norm for tipping. It is not the same as the culture we have here in the US. I see that you are using your history as a vocal point to emphasize that tipping isn't mandatory. Let's just be clear that your experience working service industry in the UK is not closely the same.
That's what you get for going to pizza hut right after rolling out of bed
Because the customer KNOWS they are obligated to tip as they know that's how that person gets paid.
Does it really matter if:
Your total bill is $24 when tips aren't a thing and the server is paid directly from the business
vs
Your "Bill" is $20 with the expectation of a roughly $4 tip
Your still paying $24. Skipping the tip is just stiffing the server.
These threads are so funny. I always see people assume that all waitstaff are barely getting by and don't have a "livable wage." Of course this depends on the area you're in, but you can say that about any profession. Here in NYC, go ask a server if they'd prefer to be salaried or tipped. You'd be surprised to hear that a lot of them prefer the latter. Why? Because many actually end up making quite a bit of money. Not everyone is barely getting by just because they rely on tips. They're probably better off than you, and I say this as someone who relied on tips and worked in hospitality for years.
Should you tip? Yeah. But I'm way past the idea of guilt tripping people who don't.
Should you tip? Yeah. But I'm way past the idea of guilt tripping people who don't.
Meant nyc, not New York state. But your input is very helpful to the greater discussion here.