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Are you cheap if you don’t tip? (American tipping culture)
- Thread starter DongBeetle
- Start date
I know...
The whole thing is stupid. Bottom line, employers should pay their staff a reasonable, livable goddamn wage. End of fucking story. If you can't afford to pay your staff, you shouldn't be in business. You're not entitled to be in business, if it means employing indentured servants and paying slave wages.
At the same time, it's not my job as a consumer to fight for workers' rights. My only concern is to get the best bang for my buck, but without being an asshole about it and a total cheapskate. If servers want to get paid more, that's between them and their employers. If they want it, they have to fight for it. They shouldn't have to, but that's just where we are as a society.
Right now, the onus is on the customer, which it shouldn't. The burden and guilt of subsidizing workers shouldn't be on me. If I tip, I'm enabling a shitty system. If I don't, I'm punishing the worker, not the establishment. I'm screwed either way.
Why would I tip? They get paid good amount and the places already take service charge.
Here is a crazy idea, how about paying workers a decent amount so they don't have to live on tips America? Insane I know.
If they're not able to pay for the tip then they're essentially stealing from the staff. And no, I don't think that because you're broke you deserve to get special treatment at a restaurant instead of just making a sandwich at home. If you're planning to eat out, plan to be able to tip the 15-20% or don't go out.
I basically think that people advocating for and perpetuating this system should at least be able to get together and turn them from a complex and contradictory overlapping unwritten system of rules into a consistent and watertight written system of rules so that people not familiar with this system have something to follow.
Until people advocating for this system can agree on what it should actually be, I'm not really sure why anyone not familiar with this system should be shamed about it.
That's a massive yikes from me. I know some truly very poor families irl that are undoubtly poorer than the staff working in the restaurant. Some people deserve special treatment, especially the poorer ones. What the fuck am I reading.
Yes. /thread
Seriously, are we having yet another tipping thread? This should be settled by now and yet everyone seems to want to bring it back up.
Yes, it sucks, but either change the system or tip, you cheap bastards.
Seriously, are we having yet another tipping thread? This should be settled by now and yet everyone seems to want to bring it back up.
Yes, it sucks, but either change the system or tip, you cheap bastards.
I gave you my list/ system. Some of it has to do with region, income and where you go out to eat. America is far too large, vast, nuanced and diverse to have a one size fits all "policy" on this.
Everyone agrees it sucks. But every country has lame ass customs. If I go to Japan, I'm sure I'll have to exercise a bunch of nonsensical bullshit and traditions that I feel are dumb. But I'm in their country and I sure as hell am not gonna change their system.
The best solution is to pay all workers a livable wage. Make tipping 100% discretionary and guilt free at that point.
Here in Québec I have my tips taxed and they assume I always get a minimum of 8% tip.
But I work as a Hotel receptionist that takes care of the small bar, so I might serve like 4 drinks a night, so it's not the end of the world for me, not on a tip salary.
So people making excuses not to tip here are even bigger assholes than other places.
But I work as a Hotel receptionist that takes care of the small bar, so I might serve like 4 drinks a night, so it's not the end of the world for me, not on a tip salary.
So people making excuses not to tip here are even bigger assholes than other places.
Imo...unfortubately if soneone does not have the means to eat at a restaurant and not tip...they prolly shouldnt be spending there in the first place
You know the restaurant industry helped push tipping because of prohibition right? Or how it started in hotel room service to cut costs? Wait staff used to make a decent living before tips. After tipping the burden was simply shifted to the customers from the employers.
Under my system the staff would have a fixed income that'd ultimately make them more. This applies to delivery services too. Instead of making a living wage on some customers they'd make it on all of them.
I'll give it a listen later, thanks.
"Staff Turnover" is shorthand for "Staff are making less and leaving for more lucrative positions elsewhere."
In the US, absolutely.
And I'm sure these people proclaiming loudly and proudly that they don't tip in the US make their intentions known prior to being served, and explain how they are actually on the side of the server they are about to stiff.
And I'm sure these people proclaiming loudly and proudly that they don't tip in the US make their intentions known prior to being served, and explain how they are actually on the side of the server they are about to stiff.
Do you know any servers? Because all the ones I know/knew made way more being tipped than they would have at other jobs of a similar skill level. My brother is a waiter and he made more than I did back when I worked retail.
That's fine. If service is really poor, don't tip. That sends a message. Some folks are sympathetic and will say, "Oh well maybe they're having a bad day".
Okay, but that's not my problem. I might be having a bad day too, and that meal was the one thing I was looking forward to and you managed to fuck that up. Now you made my day worse. I'm not going to reward bad service.
I know plenty of servers, but if I were to posit to them to forego regular pay and move to a tip-based performance system like the US, I'll bet they'd shoot me down.
If you don't tip in situations where it is warranted, yeah, you are cheap, and probably an a-hole as well. Choosing not to engage in tipping because you disagree with reasons we do it only hurts the employees and doesn't change anything.
I do abstain from tipping in these weird scenarios that companies are trying to force on us though, as there is now a tipping option on just about every transaction even where it traditionally would not be expected. I know tipping is a necessity right now but I'm not going to encourage it to expand into more and more areas.
I do abstain from tipping in these weird scenarios that companies are trying to force on us though, as there is now a tipping option on just about every transaction even where it traditionally would not be expected. I know tipping is a necessity right now but I'm not going to encourage it to expand into more and more areas.
I don't agree with tipping but I do it anyways because I don't want to punish workers for situations out of their control. However, I don't tip anywhere near as much as I've heard that some people do as I think it's just way too much. My standard is 10% for delivery (15% if the weather is trash) and 15% for dine-in.
Ah, I assumed you lived in the US. I can't really attest to wait staff wages compared to wages for similarly skilled jobs outside the US, I just know that here that wait staff that make tips tend to make more than they would working at, say, a fast food establishment or a grocery store.
Their thoughts on it will be ready in about 20 minutes but until then would you like something to drink?
I dont tip of I'm the one picking up the order I made on the phone or online, and I'm not 100% sure part of the tip goes to the cooks.
Outside of that, until the entirety of tipping culture is changed, you tip or you're a cheapass
Outside of that, until the entirety of tipping culture is changed, you tip or you're a cheapass
So that was a read, but I guess I'm failing to see how this supports your statement that the US tip-based system is better than the system used in the rest of the world to the point that all waiters prefer it. It says that some waiters lost money (which could mean a whole slew of things, not in the least the fact they might still have been underpaid) and that 1/3rd of them left their jobs. Even if we accept all of them left because of this change, that's still a far cry from all the waiters preferring the tip-based system.
Step one would be a proper minimum-wage that applies to all service-based jobs, including waiting and retail positions, like is the case in most other countries. Only after this exists, would it be fair to look at what waiting staff would prefer.
Oh, I'm not saying it's better. It's actively worse for the economy as a whole.
It's just better for the waitstaff in general because they get paid more.
But you posited that there was a universal agreement that this was preferred?
Do you realise how classist this is? This is supposed to make you seem like the good guy?
Yeah. The entire rest of the world has a single one size fits all policy on this.
By the waitstaff. Because they will make less money collectively under a different pay structure.
If you don't tip at all the you are not only cheap then you are also an ass in my opinion. These people depend on tips to make a living. You personally disagreeing with "tipping culture" is irrelevent to me. You should tip at least SOMETHING until the problem is resolved. You are doing nothing but hurting the waiters by refusing to tip.
Why is this stated as fact? Why can't they make the same equal amount or more?
They can't because the US fails to deliver any law on this. And because the consumer is made out to be the awful person if they don't tip in the 15 to 20% region.
Again, your article states 1/3rd of the waiters quit (lets negate the fact all of the positions appeared to be filled by new staff), that means 2/3rd of the employees are either willingly taking a huge pay bump, can't find work anywhere else for years now, or -alternatively- are perhaps okay with working for regular wage instead of tips.
Allow me to piggyback on this topic. I'm not American and tipping basically amounts to round up the bill over here (if that even). But I always wondered how tipping is handled with regulars. Are they expected to tip more or less (often) than other customers?
Yes
You class warriors aren't accomplishing shit by staging your one man revolution. If you actually cared about anything other than saving a few bucks you'd support efforts to organize among waitstaff. Stiffing them out of a living wage until your hypothetical glorious tipless future comes is asshole behavior
You class warriors aren't accomplishing shit by staging your one man revolution. If you actually cared about anything other than saving a few bucks you'd support efforts to organize among waitstaff. Stiffing them out of a living wage until your hypothetical glorious tipless future comes is asshole behavior
If you cant afford the service, don't ask for it. Pretty simple. If you went into a gamestore and bought a new XB do you expect a game for free just because you are poor? That's effectively what your advocating for here.
You realise that people aren't expected to pay for employee's wages in the rest of the world, right? Your analogy makes no sense. The equivalent would be tipping the cashier.
But your not "in the rest of the world". And yes, if the cashier wasn't paid normal wage, and you used their service but didn't pay them then it would be the same.
Seriously, its pretty simple. You are getting a service, but not paying for it if you don't tip in America. Can you hire someone to mow your lawn and not pay them? Weed a garden and not pay them? They are giving you a service and they only way they are paid is by you directly. If you don't pay them your rude and a asshole whos not paying for a service you agreed to by going to the restaurant.
I am, though. I'm not American.
I think tipping is a good thing, especially in North America where service workers are paid much less than they should be to get by. But there are also many people who work hard long hours for minimum wage and have many dependents. They don't get tipped. The idea that they shouldn't be allowed something nice, and it's their fault that your system is so broken is insane to me. You're completely placing the blame in the wrong place. You're really going to look down on a black single mother who wanted to get her son a treat on his birthday, for example? Really?
Because with tips = income, the salary budget for the waitstaff is equal to ~15% of the business's revenue. This ends up translating to an amount (especially after creative income tax returns) that's a higher net take home pay than it would be if the job was subject to a traditional hourly or salaried income level. Waiting isn't exactly the most skill intensive job, especially once the salesanship aspect of it is massively diminished with the direct commision aspect removed. When Meyer made those changes, he raised the back of house staff's pay at the same time, which wasn't an accident, the BoH end up with lower salaries in the US as a result as the front of house takes up a disproportionately large part of a restaurant's budget as there's less money to go around overall. This isn't the only place that's experienced this issue. It's a common thread throughout these many, many stories of businesses attempting this change then having to revert it because they started bleeding experienced talent.
And again, here's that discrepancy at play- you are motivated by not wanting to feel like the bad guy if you don't tip, or you don't like the feeling of having that much power in your hands. But your solution to that problem on the consumer end comes at the expense of the waitstaff here, because they'd much rather have a commision based system, and they benefit from it being in place. Your desires end up in opposition to theirs, not aligned.
Until you start considering the tips as revenue diverted directly to the pay of the waitstaff, you and others will continue to make this error. They aren't being tipped to make up for missing wages, the wages are the tips, as menu prices are lower than they would be otherwise because of this.
I am not sure how things are in the US but I can shed some light on how it works where I live (Alberta, Canada).
First of all the minimum wage here is $15. This applies universally to all employees including wait staff. New laws were recently introduced to allow places to pay people under 18 less ($13).
On top of their $15/h base wage tipping culture seems to be pretty similar to the US, 15-20% and it is expected. Some of that tip is paid out to the kitchen. Most servers I know working during busy time end up pocketing at least $30 and hour on average and quite often significantly more. I can not imagine that most restaurants would be willing or even able to pay that much as a base wage. Especially since they would almost certainly have to raise the wages of the kitchen staff as well. Even if they raised everyone's wage to like $25 an hour (which I am not sure would be sustainable) it would still amount to a pay cut for servers.
I'm not sure that's a good analogy. You have already paid for the food, so you have already received your product. Tipping in America, at least, is pretty much making up for what the business is not paying their employees. When you buy a console the game is separate and not apart of the initial purchase. The game is technically is not a required purchase.
Correct.
You tip, because of the fucked up system in the United States. Without your tip, the server/bartender is literally working for well below minimum wage. In order for them to receive half a chance at a living wage, your tip of 15-20% is required. Not tipping because you hate the system is not cool, as the only person you hurt is the one who needs this money. Work on changing laws, or start going to no-tip restaurants who pay their workers a fair wage (eg how the rest of the world does it).
I never tip, I think it is a dumb practice. It's not your problem how much money they're making or whatever.
I think it depends on the circumstance. So many places randomly throw a tip line on the receipt now. Sometimes I'll do it, but I try to not feel bad if I don't. But any place with actual service where you know the people are relying on you to supplement theIr lower base wage..yeah, you're just being cheap.
I agree its not a great analogy but its close enough for the forum we are on.