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Are you cheap if you don’t tip? (American tipping culture)
- Thread starter DongBeetle
- Start date
Sorry, I guess my scarcasm didn't come through on my original post. I totally agree with you.
My post was in response to someone who said that if you're not going to tip at least 20% then don't eat out. To me that doesn't help anyone.
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory Commentary and Trolling; Numerous Prior Bans for Inflammatory Behavior Including a Severe Ban for Racism
Yes, you're a cheap cunt and you deserve to die in a car crash on the way home from the restaurant.
Ah! Lol, thought that was a drastic hill to plant your flag on!
It absolutely is a responsibility as its directly paying for the waitstaff's wages. They work explicitly on commission. The cost of food in the US is about 10-20% under where it would be if tipping wasn't a thing because there's a virtual labor budget built into the pricing. You can dislike the way in which its structured in the US, but if you're stiffing on tips you're just being an asshole.
And the waitstaff like it that way. The idea that employers are "cheating" their employees is a pov that doesn't recognize the ways in which this arrangement explicitly benefits that class of employees . Because generally they make more money that way once you get to the middle to high end restaurants than they would if they were just salaried or hourly employees. Which is why you see businesses experiment with the change only to revert it when they start having turnover issues.
Everyone on this site always talks about how the workers are exploited and make poverty wages and we need to end tipping. What do wait staff want?
That's not how responsibility works. The customer is not the employer of the service staff. Nor do they hold any kind of regular authority over said staff to ensure their well being. It's a cultural norm.
It can in fact help the server. Servers typically only get asmall number of tables that makeup their "section" of the restaurant each night. If you take up a table and don't tip well, there's an opportunity cost to them. It could be better if you stayed home and let them serve a better tipping customer instead.
We had a restaurant open a couple years ago near me that advertised paying all their employees a livable wage and tips were not expected but could still be given. This was a place that served street tacos of different varieties and they were really good. Had a full bar as well.
Unfortunately within about a year the place closed despite having good business. I went there a couple of times a month to support them. I'd like to believe it was just mismanaged but since it wasn't really an expensive restaurant it could be the profits didn't make it sustainable.
Unfortunately within about a year the place closed despite having good business. I went there a couple of times a month to support them. I'd like to believe it was just mismanaged but since it wasn't really an expensive restaurant it could be the profits didn't make it sustainable.
Probably the same thing everyone wants, a decent livable wage.
I can't think of many fast food places that ask for tips.
That's because the workers in those cases are seeing their pay drop. I guarantee you if these companies rolled the cost of the tip into the price of food and put all that money to the workers most wouldn't mind.
Of course since any company doing that will see a drop in customers due to increased prices, no one's gonna do that. We need legislation to outlaw the practice.
OP
OP
I wouldn't wait tables for minimum wage. It just wouldn't be worth it
Ok how much is that? When i worked at boston pizza. Min wage was around 6.50 but i was making 18-22 an hour with tips. That was over 20 years ago.
You're describing mandated minimum gratuities. Which yes, would just be the norms turning into hard rules.
Their wages are higher with tipping than they would be without it.
After visiting a countries that didn't allow tipping, the US needs to get its shit together.
Fucking pay these people a normal wage.
Fucking pay these people a normal wage.
There are quite many here in Canada. It's a trend that started maybe, I wanna say, 7-8 years ago? These places often won't accept PayPass so you're forced to use the terminal and blatantly press the "no" button when it asks you if you want to give a tip. Rapidly, Thaï Zone is the one place that comes to my mind.
No? Youre not cheap because you dont tip. Its whatever, tipping culture in America is stupid. I tip because I dont really care to go on a fruitless crusade against tipping conventions but it doesnt necessarily make you cheap. Its not like tipping in America is a reasonably sound process.
No I'm describing raising prices and giving the employees a living wage coupled with banning tipping. The customer sees no real change when all is said and done and the workers get a more consistent paycheck.
Any restaurant that sticks with minimum wage will see high turnover which more competitive restaurants will take advantage of.
Yep, it's rude not to tip given the way things work there, but I 100% prefer other systems.. For example, systems where they actually pay their workers so people don't have to rely on some variable tip.
I will certainly clarify that it shouldn't be your responsibility and the fact that it is demonstrates the perverseness of the system. By saying it is your responsibility I don't mean to say it should be, but rather if you don't fulfill this expectation then your server is simply not paid. In that regard, it is your responsibility to ensure the worker is compensated because otherwise they are not.
But this should of course be legislated out of existence.
If you raise prices 15% and direct that extra 15% directly to the employees, you are just putting the current system into place into stone rules. As it turns out, customers hate that 15% bump in prices, so the auto-gratuity would be the safest method for a restaurant doing this.
In case it wasn't clear, that is how the current system works. The labor budget for the restaurants is that 15% virtual charge It exists, but the management has no control over it. This is a positive to waitstaff, as it causes their wages to be a direct reflection of food and alcohol menu prices instead of something divorced from them, which turns into lower salaries once that direct link is severed. (see: just about every no-tip experiment in the US, salaries in Europe, etc.)
This is bad for business owners (waitstaff end up overpaid, money's diverted from places like the back of house budget), and bad for the economy (talented people will go into this line of work because it's abnormally lucrative) but good for the waitstaff, which is why it endures, as they don't want to see it gone.
I feel a little uncomfortable about the lack of nuance in this tipping discussion, as it seems to overlook those who may not be as able to tip.
I don't tip very much money, but i don't eat expensive either. I don't got that money to give away 🤷
Not just cheap a shitbag. You know damn well these people are being fucked and not tipping isn't helping anyone. And until the situation is change you should.
It's simple then, don't eat at a restaurant where you can't afford to tip.
I have to admit ive never heard this argument against tipping before. Tipping is bad because this allows waiters to make way too much money. Which then causes them to waste their lives by not doing something else for society. Interesting thought
Not quite sure what you mean? If you're talking about not being able to afford the meal and a tip then there are lots of options for pretty much any budget so cut your cloth accordingly and choose one where you'll be able to afford the food and also leave a tip.
I seriously question if you've ever relied on tips to survive. Do you seriously think workers like an inconsistent paycheck vs a consistent one where they are payed a living wage?
Business owners had the idea for tips. If it's so bad for them then why'd they do it? If you've ever been close to upper management you'd know most are itching to slash their payroll costs. Tipping solves that and the restaurant industry in the US as seen a boon from it while workers are payed poverty wages and customers get guilt tripped into filling the gap. It also helps that the cost of the tip is hidden from the customer until after they've eaten.
A system where workers were paid more and prices increased would hurt owners and that's why they push back and implement these half assed no tip rules. It's FUD. If you're a business owner you'd never raise prices to pay your workers more. It makes no since without the legal requirement to. Hence why legislation is needed. It'd help workers and consumers. The only ones who would suffer is the businesses.
Tipping culture in the US is ridiculous. But you have to go along with it because otherwise you're just fucking with working people.
What happens is massive turnover and difficulty hiring the best available wait staff.
Baked into tipping is waitstaff seniority. The senior staff get the best shifts, the busiest shifts where the best tips come from. Junior staff get the slow shifts. Once you remove tipping, the busy shifts with the most customers lose their value.
In addition, you are correct, customers hate it. They hate the price increases and believe it or not, they like to tip. Restaurants that have tried it have struggled to make it work. it tends to work best in high end restaurants where there is less sensitivity to price increases.
Freakonomics radio has done several podcasts on the subject, all excellent. I recommend checking it out.
Some restaurants tried this and everyone hated it. Pretty sure they've all gone back to tipping.
Does no one realize that they'd just increase the price of food? And wait staff would be less happy, service would suffer, etc.?
Yes, tipping sucks, blah blah blah...
Just shut up and do it though. If you're just visiting, who cares? You're here for a week on vacation or whatever, a few extra bucks ain't gonna kill you or break the bank. Don't be cheap. If I visit your country, I'd have to adapt to your dumbass customs too. So there.
Just shut up and do it though. If you're just visiting, who cares? You're here for a week on vacation or whatever, a few extra bucks ain't gonna kill you or break the bank. Don't be cheap. If I visit your country, I'd have to adapt to your dumbass customs too. So there.
No, you're just an asshole if you don't tip, even if it is fucked up.
Tipping culture is obnoxious, inconsistent, discriminatory, and guilt-based...but it's sadly what we have right now. Refusing to participate in it does nothing to correct the situation and everything to punish workers who currently rely on tips. Even if they're actively fighting against fixing it for obvious reasons, they deserve to get paid.
It's a bad system, yes, but one in which you're not justified in refusing to participate at the moment.
Tipping culture is obnoxious, inconsistent, discriminatory, and guilt-based...but it's sadly what we have right now. Refusing to participate in it does nothing to correct the situation and everything to punish workers who currently rely on tips. Even if they're actively fighting against fixing it for obvious reasons, they deserve to get paid.
It's a bad system, yes, but one in which you're not justified in refusing to participate at the moment.
Can someone please write down these rules so that visitors know who to tip and how much?
Because I've seen huge amounts of conflicting information about this. Some people say that all service workers should be tipped, some say it's just restaurants. Some say it's only certain types of restaurants. Some say deliveries require a tip others say they don't. This complex web of overlapping rules is hard to navigate for outsiders.
If Americans can't even form a consensus on how to tip, how are outsiders supposed to handle this Byzantine system of unwritten social norms?
A system that no other country uses.
I think this thread and pretty much every serious discussion on tipping proves customers do not like to tip.
I have not disputed that a raise in prices would hurt business which is why legislation in necessary. No sane business would go down that path without it.
They're going to back to tipping because they're either raising prices (which makes them uncompetitive which is why legislation is needed) or because they pay their workers minimum wage instead of what they deserve (effectively a paycut resulting in a loss of talent).
Wouldn't you say it's better to eat at that restaurant anyway since providing support to this restaurant means it doesn't go out of business and therefore keeps people's job?
There's also the fact that thinking that people who cannot afford to tip shouldn't enjoy the small pleasure they can afford such as a meal in a restaurant of their linking once per who knows how long of a period of time is just gross.
Yes, they sincerely prefer if when they're making more money with tips, even if it comes at the cost of consistency. (as a poster alluded to earlier, there's a hidden "I get to fudge my taxes" element at play here too that makes an all-on-the-books paycheck also a step down pay-wise because suddenly they're being taxed on the real amount, not the one they report.) This is both an anecdotal thing and something we've seen play out time and time again where restaurants that try and make the switch end up with staff retention issues.
No one was really "responsible" for tips happening, it's a thing (much like the stupid Healthcare system here) that emerged out of circumstances. Tipping doesn't actually eliminate payroll costs, it shifts them onto a virtual budget proportional to food/alcohol revenue that management has no control over.
A system where workers get paid more than they do now would increase prices to a spot above the current price + tip total price. Which yes, would result in less people eating out. What you're not grasping is that with the tip structure, whenever prices go up at a restaurant, it's a virtual raise for the employees as long as business is steady! There's not need for a legal requirement because the structure of tipping makes it so wages are directly tied to menu prices and service volume.
The issue with all these external perspectives is the whole "I don't like having a person's income directly in the palm of my hand and I want to change that" motivation works at cross purposes with the waitstaff's "I want to earn as much money as possible" motivation. The customers who want to change it have good intentions, but are not considering the perspective of the people they're trying to aid.
- Tip for food delivery, bartenders and any sit-down restaurant. I typically pay 10% for delivery (due to deliver fees*) and 15% at a restaurant. I give more if service is exceptional.
- Fast food (McDonald's, KFC, ect), baristas, or pick up, DO NOT TIP.
- Car washes (those who hand dry), valet parking (not parking garages), hotel bell hops, keg delivery, movers, miscellaneous heavy home delivery (mattress or something really big), you "should" tip. A few bucks is fine. Nothing over $5. If you're rich, go nuts.
- Other home professional services like plumbers, electricians, painters, roofers, landscapers, exterminators, DO NOT TIP.
*Some establishments will use delivery fees to pay delivery drivers, some don't. Some disclose this, some don't. I've been burned and preemptively paid a generous tip, only to have my food come late, cold and my order all wrong. I don't always carry cash. So I just said screw it, I'll pay 10% and call it a day. It's better than nothing and I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
This forum is not always a good place to judge mainstream opinion.
Again, please check out this Freakonomics episode. It's very interesting. I found a link.
Yes, you are. Being waited on is a service you need to pay for.
It's a dumb service, I don't think it's worth what I'm paying for it, and I'd rather the wait staff get kicked to the curb and the cooks/dishwashers/whoever get that money. So I avoid being waited on whenever possible. But you don't always have that choice.
It's a dumb service, I don't think it's worth what I'm paying for it, and I'd rather the wait staff get kicked to the curb and the cooks/dishwashers/whoever get that money. So I avoid being waited on whenever possible. But you don't always have that choice.
Multiple aspects of this conflict with other advice I've been given on tipping.
