Diminishing returns is when games actually start looking close enough to CGI movies imo. We're nowhere near that yet.
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Are we hitting diminishing returns with graphics?
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I don't know what that post has to do with fanboyism. Sony is the only publisher currently we know that will have next gen exclusive games at the launch and so first real look at the capabilities of the new gen.
There is no question the pace of improvements is slowing. We're essentially going to be at the point with these next gen consoles where you can make things look photorealistic if you have the money and manpower to do it.
But making things look more and more impressive just becomes increasingly more and more expensive, which is why I've been arguing on this forum for months now that we are going to see 60fps so much more next gen. It doesn't cost anything to use that extra power on farme rate.
But making things look more and more impressive just becomes increasingly more and more expensive, which is why I've been arguing on this forum for months now that we are going to see 60fps so much more next gen. It doesn't cost anything to use that extra power on farme rate.
I can't even tell when RT is On or OffIf this doesn't wow you I don't know what will.
This is what a 2009 PS3 game looked like:If this doesn't wow you I don't know what will.
This is what an early PS4 game looks like:
Yeah.. If the biggest difference is in reflections and lighting, you're gonna see a lot of disappointed folks. We're hitting the diminishing returns like never before.
Not yet. And I don't think the MS event was a good basis for speculating on this, as it was mostly indie games/cross gen. Even then, some of the smaller games like The Ascent still look pretty darn impressive for what they were.
This isn't like the irony of old PS1/N64 era musings like "WOW! Can it get much better than this?"
We actually are hitting the peak of how far facial animation can go with things like Hellblade II. We've entered the bells and whistles stage of the game where we're going to argue about how many branches a tree has or how many birds are on screen or the sun shining off of a puddle. The home console market moving forward will end up being about rendering speed and better AI or whatever. The next big focus will be high quality VR.
Nintendo is still going to Nintendo and chug along and do their own thing.
I'd argue that Video in general is hitting than point of diminishing returns too. Doubt you'll get much value out of that 8K panel unless you plan on having a 200 inch tv in your house.
We actually are hitting the peak of how far facial animation can go with things like Hellblade II. We've entered the bells and whistles stage of the game where we're going to argue about how many branches a tree has or how many birds are on screen or the sun shining off of a puddle. The home console market moving forward will end up being about rendering speed and better AI or whatever. The next big focus will be high quality VR.
Nintendo is still going to Nintendo and chug along and do their own thing.
I'd argue that Video in general is hitting than point of diminishing returns too. Doubt you'll get much value out of that 8K panel unless you plan on having a 200 inch tv in your house.
Fuck no. I just booted up my PS3 to play Nier right after playing FF7 and RE3 remake on ps4....... its a fucking joke how terrible Nier looks.
With that said, I have no idea what the ps4-ps5 jump is expected to be.
With that said, I have no idea what the ps4-ps5 jump is expected to be.
For the average person probably
For people who are really good at spotting high end graphics not at all
For people who are really good at spotting high end graphics not at all
We've been hitting diminishing returns since the first pixel was rendered. It's just that most people have no clue what diminishing returns are.
Yes. I struggle to think of the last game that made stop and think that it's a quantum leap in graphics. It's probably Crysis. Graphics have continually improved, but it all feels like small gradual steps rather than the giant leaps we had during the '90s/early-00s. The improvements are slower and require greater and greater amounts of resources to realise.
Yes, and it doesn't impress me that much. Nicer reflections and different lighting, but nothing that makes me say "wow". Hell, the games that have seemingly benefited the most are ones with simple environments, but in those cases the way it's been used gives me some feelings of '00s nostalgia (godrays, godrays everywhere, and don't forget about the bloom).
Yes, and it doesn't impress me that much. Nicer reflections and different lighting, but nothing that makes me say "wow". Hell, the games that have seemingly benefited the most are ones with simple environments, but in those cases the way it's been used gives me some feelings of '00s nostalgia (godrays, godrays everywhere, and don't forget about the bloom).
Like what? We literally got Shadowfall gameplay in the unveiling and a good idea of what the console was capable off. Same with infamous second son.
Yes we are, the fact that you need someone to explain ray tracing and point it out for you, its a clear sign of that, a game like last of us in PS3 shouldn't look all that different to last of us 2 to the average joe and while in motion, now if you put it side by side and specifically point out the differences, then yeah it is noticeable.
To an extent. But I do think there's room to push a lot further if a developer opted for it. Sadly I kind of expect next gen to largely be made up games that look kinda similar to this gen, but with raytracing enabled. That's the vibe I got from the Xbox game thing recently. I'm sure there will be games that make us all go "wow" though, but when you're pushing for 4k, 60fps and RT...it doesn't leave a lot of processing budget for much else.
Top tier path-tracing would be a game changer.
But with fucking Minecraft making high-end GPUs struggle at 1080p somehow I don't think we'll be seeing much of that shit in the upcoming generation though. Just enjoy your barely-noticeable improved shadows and reflections.
Do you mean the PS3 reveal? As far as I remember the PS4 games they showed looked just as good when they launched.
If you think graphics have hit diminishing returns, you have to ask yourselves why movie studios spend tens of millions of dollars on servers and spend hours per frame rendering scenes when they can just plug in a single $300 PS4.
What exactly do you think diminishing returns means? Because it doesn't mean graphics aren't getting better
Thats not what people are talking about when they say diminishing returns.
Its the amount of change compared to prior gens.
There does definitely appear to be diminishing returns, but I mean thats true in all of computing (phones, tablets, desktops, etc). If you are into this shit you are going to keep upgrading even if its not a PS1 to PS2 change in visuals.
Ask me again when we see AAA games developed from the ground up with next-gen consoles in mind.
If this doesn't wow you I don't know what will.
This highlights what I posted above, most people probably would not be able to identify which of these technically has better graphics thanks to ray tracing. At best you'll get people who say "hey flashlights in games work better now" without really understanding how difficult ray tracing is to actually do.
right. if you just look at the simple silicon advancement per gen, we are slowing way down with pure capability on a % level year on year. These specs dont lie and the proof is in the image jumps we are seeing.
You literally described diminishing returns. The cost (in multiple senses of the term) to notably improve real-time rendering is exponential compared to previous generations.
Well at least between the ps3 to ps4 transition, i'd dispute that notion. I don't think a resolution bump would help cut the gap very much, at least in the case of Nier. Maybe MGS4 and TloU are better comparisons. I'm just making an actual observation based on my recent encounter with a ps3 game.... shit looks rough.
Ps4 to ps5 it may very well be the case of even worse diminishing returns
Yes, and each generational leap required a greater investment of manpower and computational power than the last. This is literally what diminishing returns is, and get the impression that some people don't seem to understand this.
we got this complaint every start of the gen. Just wait for 1st party stuffs, would ya? Many early gen games will be a crossed gen so they won't look very impressive. It takes time for dev to push the hardware limit. Just look at games like FF7R or RDR2 compared to many games that came out in 2013.
After just playing the last 2 chapters in ff7 remake and finishing it I would say no. What developers have been able to push out this gen on consoles even till this day have the chance of wowing me and I don't see why it will change with first party games next gen. Still so many areas they can improve on besides main character models. Interactive backgrounds,NPCs, texture work, physics, hair quality, frame rates. I mean hell not all major games are reaching the 4k resolution without sacrifice. Now we have RT which I'm not expecting to be fully utilized right out the gate but slowly over the course of the next few years.
We might not see the improvements everywhere equally right from the start but I expect all the major players to take things to the next level like they always have and we know who they are. Honestly I'm ready and excited.
We might not see the improvements everywhere equally right from the start but I expect all the major players to take things to the next level like they always have and we know who they are. Honestly I'm ready and excited.
I was just poking fun! That's a good point, though - I hadn't considered who will actually have next-gen exclusives at launch.
Stills vs motion are two very different experiences when it comes to RT. Though I'd be pretty disappointed if people really can't tell which of these two pictures features far superior reflections.
From my personal experience with this gen, there is very little difference between early PS4 and late PS4. It's completely different from early PS3 to late PS3, which saw a world's worth of changes. I do think graphical progress is slowing down, but I think ray-tracing and graphics in general may have some cool advancements this coming gen.
Yeah, but it's not about if graphics still look better in subsequent gens. The question is, do you think the jump from an average looking PS2 game to an average looking PS3 game is bigger or small than the jump from an average looking PS3 game to an average looking PS4 game? Depending on you answer you either fall into the diminishing returns camp or not. You can't really make an assessment looking only between 2 generations. You can't assess the rate of improvements that way
Yeah, but the question is whether featuring superior reflections is a bigger jump from not featuring reflections at all to featuring rudimentary/highly situational ones