Are There Any Truly Independent Gaming Websites? | OR | E3 Press Coverage Sure is Boring this Year.

[thebishop]

I've been listening to most of the gaming podcast's E3 Prediction shows, and I've noticed a theme: Most of them have signed NDAs and can't say shit.

Gaming "journalism" (or more accurately 'the enthusiast press') is so tied up with access that they can't help but act as amplifiers for a corporate PR strategy. To some extent this has always been the case, but I think there was maybe a 10 year period when "the blogs" were still actually blogs, before they got bought by Conde Nast and Vice, etc. Today there aren't many outlets who can really piss off the publishers and still keep an audience. There are some personalities like Jim Sterling who can act as lightning rods, but I find this ridiculously sad and self-aggrandizing.

Is it really impossible to have a high quality site that:

- doesn't get its games paid for in advance
- covers conventions and public events as regular attendees
- maintains an adversarial approach to publishers and platform holders while still cultivating sources in both

???

It's inevitable that such a site wouldn't get early preview access to high profile games, but I have two responses to that:

1. When an announcement is really massive, these big companies don't go to the enthusiast press anyway, they go to Wired or Ellen or something truly mainstream
2. What difference does it make TO ME if Jeff Gerstmann and Greg Miller know everything at E3 in advance if they can't talk about it?

We have like 5-10 websites right now that basically post identical coverage from the same publisher-sanctioned press events, and we probably have another 100 sites that just repost takes from that reporting. There's major diminishing returns to sites like this, and the timeliness of scoops and early reviews seems less important.

Why can't we have 1 or 2 sites that report based on anything they can confirm, rather than what the publishers will allow them to say?

Another case in point: It's surprising that we've basically had no information on Stadia since GDC despite Google saying that they've had thousands of Google employees beta testing it for a year. Really nobody in the gaming press could find 2 people in the test willing to speak off the record? Nobody in the bay area had friends at Google willing to talk? I find it hard to believe.

 

[Sou Da]

Really nobody in the gaming press could find 2 people in the test willing to speak off the record?

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They could have just had nothing new to say.

 

[ILikeFeet]

covering conventions cost money, especially if you do some in multiple countries
being adversarial works, just look at Jim Sterling, but he built up an audience

it's not impossible, but it's difficult, especially when you hear how established, corporate owned sites are struggling

 

[TayNixster]

The #GAMERNation Podcast - https://anchor.fm/gamernation-podcast

 

[thebishop]

covering conventions cost money, especially if you do some in multiple countries
being adversarial works, just look at Jim Sterling, but he built up an audience

it's not impossible, but it's difficult, especially when you hear how established, corporate owned sites are struggling

Click to shrink...

Are they really struggling though, or do they just have a vampiric corporate board taking a ridiculously outsized portion of the profit?

 

[jschreier]

https://kotaku.com/

 

[It’s Time To Go]

As a journalist that is against mainstream media and the corruption it causes. I am a co host of. A podcast. Called the #GAMERNation Pod where I express my thoughts on what's going on in the industry.

Here's a link to the show feel free to The your friends I've been a journalist for 10+ years.

The #GAMERNation Podcast - https://anchor.fm/gamernation-podcast

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Not allowed to promote your own stuff.

 

[Deleted member 4482]

kotaku is what you're looking for

 

[Blackage]

Kotaku leaks everything they get their hands on much to the dismay of the publishers.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Are they really struggling though, or do they just have a vampiric corporate board taking a ridiculously outsized portion of the profit?

Click to shrink...

most likely the latter. but at the same time, it gives them exposure. without a name, going off on your own doesn't exactly work. so if the place they make a name for themselves game stick around, that'll be a problem

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

It all comes down to money.

 

[jschreier]

Kotaku leaks everything they get their hands on much to the dismay of the publishers.

Click to shrink...

Not everything. But you certainly won't hear us talk about NDAs we've signed on our E3 predictions podcast.

 

[robot]

E3 is a giant advertisement. I'm not sure why the hypothetical site you are describing would have any interest in it at all.

 

[The_R3medy]

https://kotaku.com/

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Yep, Kotaku is the type of coverage you want. Hell, they're hated by a few publishers, including Bethesda who apparently won't even reply to their emails.

 

[Neil98]

If you know Spanish, I'll do some publicity of the website I work for. It's called PureGaming and we'll be covering all the conferences. We're really small, so please give us a chance! Www.puregaming.es
Our youtube channel is also named PureGaming, we'll be livestreaming from Sunday onwards!

 

[Vagabond]

I miss the days of sites like andriasang and a few others that I cant think of that just report the news as it comes in chronologically, and little fluff. I can't stand Kotaku, and they're the best of the sites that are left unfortunately.

 

[FinalDasa]

Kotaku leaks everything they get their hands on much to the dismay of the publishers.

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Sort of. Kotaku gets sources. Leaking would be agreeing to see a publishers game then reporting on it before the agreed upon release schedule.
For sure someone from Kotaku either attended Judges Week and saw most of the E3 games or knows about it.

Honestly this is how a lot of press, especially around entertainment, works. The press want to cover a game, the publisher would like to promote that game, they work together to trade access with coverage.

This would be a problem if that coverage was influenced by access. Meaning if a member of the press assumed that access meant they have to review or speak about a game positively or else.

However just trading access and coverage isn't really an issue. Do these major sites hold back when a game isn't good just because a big publisher said so? Did Fallout 76 get nothing but praise or did it receive plenty of criticism? Was Red Dead 2 universally loved or did some people not like the more animation focus nature of the game?

If you want outsider gaming perspectives, that exists on some small Youtube channels I'm sure. However if you expect gaming press to get access to games while leaking information left and right, you'll quickly have a site that has no access and no friends within the industry.

 

[Tohsaka]

I miss the days of sites like andriasang and a few others that I cant think of that just report the news as it comes in chronologically, and little fluff. I can't stand Kotaku, and they're the best of the sites that are left unfortunately.

Click to shrink...

Gematsu is the best for that. Just news and no opinion pieces or clickbait. Siliconera is pretty good, too.

 

[thebishop]

To people saying Kotaku: I do read it, and they have done some impressive, seemingly unsanctioned reporting around this E3. They might be the best right now.

However... having been a regular listener of their podcast, I've found that coverage to be incredibly deferential to MS and the Epic Games Store. At least for me, there is an appearance of conflict of interest, so maybe the crucial question regarding independence is: Independence from who?

 

[jschreier]

For sure someone from Kotaku either attended Judges Week and saw most of the E3 games or knows about it.

Click to shrink...

Nope. We don't participate in Judge's Week for several reasons, one of which being that we don't want to see a bunch of games and then have to hide them from our readers for a month because we're tied to a publisher's embargo.

 

[JeffGubb]

The existence of that embargoed coverage doesn't really negate the other coverage that you seem to want.

Nope. We don't participate in Judge's Week for several reasons, one of which being that we don't want to see a bunch of games and then have to hide them from our readers for a month because we're tied to a publisher's embargo.

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And honestly, more people are going to start doing this if Judge's Week keeps going in the direction it is. There are multiple demos that people played and can NEVER talk about because they are for judging only. That's something that we wouldn't have agreed to had we known ahead of time.

 

[FinalDasa]

Nope. We don't participate in Judge's Week for several reasons, one of which being that we don't want to see a bunch of games and then have to hide them from our readers for a month because we're tied to a publisher's embargo.

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I didn't know that! I imagine it only really helps when making appointments, but then again it's sometimes pretty easy to guess what's what.

Thanks for letting me know :D

 

[Aaronrules380]

Are people here really this desperate for leaks? Embargoed content serves a purpose for both publishers and press and honestly as long as it doesn't affect the tone of the coverage (and I don't think it does in most Cassie's nowadays) who cares?

 

[Thera]

It exist. BuIt what you want is a site which is in the loop (knows everything) but out of the loop (without NDA).

The other really massive question (and the only one that matter) : will you pay for it ? How much ?

 

[Patapuf]

I've been listening to most of the gaming podcast's E3 Prediction shows, and I've noticed a theme: Most of them have signed NDAs and can't say shit.

Gaming "journalism" (or more accurately 'the enthusiast press') is so tied up with access that they can't help but act as amplifiers for a corporate PR strategy. To some extent this has always been the case, but I think there was maybe a 10 year period when "the blogs" were still actually blogs, before they got bought by Conde Nast and Vice, etc. Today there aren't many outlets who can really piss off the publishers and still keep an audience. There are some personalities like Jim Sterling who can act as lightning rods, but I find this ridiculously sad and self-aggrandizing.

Is it really impossible to have a high quality site that:

- doesn't get its games paid for in advance
- covers conventions and public events as regular attendees
- maintains an adversarial approach to publishers and platform holders while still cultivating sources in both

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure what you expect in pre E3 coverage. It's pre E3, what gets talked about is what the companies allow and what leaks. What difference in discource do you expect from a site that doesn't sign NDA's? They don't have any info that the others don't. Their speculations will be similar.

Attending conventions as "regular attendees" also simply means they don't get to cover shit because all they do is stand in lines.


You strangest complaint though, is games being business expenses. You expect anyone doing this professionally to not have a budget for games or what exactly do you think is going on here?

 

[Deleted member 3897]

Nope. We don't participate in Judge's Week for several reasons, one of which being that we don't want to see a bunch of games and then have to hide them from our readers for a month because we're tied to a publisher's embargo.

Click to shrink...

Never heard of Judges Week. What's the reason for it? Certain members of the press can play unannounced games?

 

[Grue]

The existence of that embargoed coverage doesn't really negate the other coverage that you seem to want.

Click to shrink...

This.

Nothing wrong with holding journalism to account, but it's a tightrope walk. To call out journalism as a whole (and to name Jeff Gerstmann of all people) as corporate shills, simply because some of them can respect an NDA, is going too far.

If you want everyone saying everything all the time, nothing would get covered - games, or journalism in general.

 

[JeffGubb]

Never heard of Judges Week. What's the reason for it? Certain members of the press can play unannounced games?

Click to shrink...

It's Geoff Keighley's thing so devs and pubs can show games to the people who vote on the big E3 awards. It never has all of the biggest announcements. It's also mostly previously announced games or smaller stuff.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I never got the feeling Giant Bomb held back or sugar coated things.

 

[thebishop]

This.

Nothing wrong with holding journalism to account, but it's a tightrope walk. To call out journalism as a whole (and to name Jeff Gerstmann of all people) as corporate shills, simply because some of them can respect an NDA, is going too far.

If you want everyone saying everything all the time, nothing would get covered - games, or journalism in general.

Click to shrink...

To be clear: I'm not naming anyone as a shill. Signing an NDA does not make you a shill. But it does control what you can talk about. And the more NDAs a person accumulates, the less she can talk about by definition.

To me shilling is about giving favorable coverage to friendly companies, and unfavorable coverage to others. This takes many forms. It could be a company is a major advertiser on your site. Or it could be a writer aspires to work for one of the companies they cover. Or a company employs people who are friends with a writer.

These are all realities, but I didn't intend to name anyone for those when I was talking about NDAs. I named them because they've both talked about being limited in what "predictions" they can make. That's not the same as shilling.

 

[Rosur]

Giant bomb I tend to think of as pretty independent though are owned by CBS but as sub funded they have quite a lot of freedom for what they cover (so don't have to follow the trends like other gaming sites) and I quite like there coverage (is mostly video based though).

 

[thefreecheese]

My site is just myself and two friends who don't work directly in the industry. We made our predictions show this week and we do new podcast episodes after each conference. We'll be hanging out over at thefreecheese.com over the weekend and through Tuesday.

 

[pixeldreams]

- doesn't get its games paid for in advance
- covers conventions and public events as regular attendees

Click to shrink...

Any site worth a damn doesn't let either of these things influence their opinion on any developer/publisher/company. Not to mention a lot of sites would be covering fewer games and events if they had to pay for everything, and they wouldn't have coverage of a new release until days/weeks later since they wouldn't receive an advanced copy.

 

[DangerMouse]

I miss the days of sites like andriasang and a few others that I cant think of that just report the news as it comes in chronologically, and little fluff. I can't stand Kotaku, and they're the best of the sites that are left unfortunately.

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah, I loved that site.

 

[MadLaughter]

Giant Bomb was literally founded by people that left/got fired for not bowing down to publisher pressure, so...

 

[xxracerxx]

I never got the feeling Giant Bomb held back or sugar coated things.

Click to shrink...

They don't, hence why some people say they are jaded and killjoys.

 

[Zen Hero]

We have resetera I guess. I think we fill the role of not having special access and discussing anything there is information about.

 

[thebishop]

Any site worth a damn doesn't let either of these things influence their opinion on any developer/publisher/company. Not to mention a lot of sites would be covering fewer games and events if they had to pay for everything, and they wouldn't have coverage of a new release until days/weeks later since they wouldn't receive an advanced copy.

Click to shrink...

I mean... I don't believe that.

But either way I'm not saying the access sites shouldn't exist. The kind of site I'm describing probably would cover fewer games and events compared to IGN. Similarly, outlets like Democracy Now or The intercept have quantifiably less coverage than the Washington Post. But the coverage has a different character, it takes different kinds of skills to produce, and it usually goes into richer detail.

 

[thefreecheese]

To the point in the OP, I'll echo the sentiment that a majority of major video game outlets string together a series of backtracking links and roll on for paragraphs to stretch out a headline. I've found that increasingly in the last five years I tend to stick to thread titles here and a few people on Twitter to grab my attention and want to explore it more. Often I find it easier to just comb through press releases myself rather than trudge through clickbait stuff.

Honestly, although I don't post often I think my default is to just always be reading through here in some fashion. It's not the same as watching or listening to a show or podcast but it gets me what I think I'm usually looking for.

 

[CloseTalker]

They don't, hence why some people say they are jaded and killjoys.

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Haha there are definitely days when both things can be true. I love GB, especially East, but some days I need to take a break.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Kotaku leaks everything they get their hands on much to the dismay of the publishers.

Click to shrink...

Jason seems to be hiding Splinter Cell thou 😕

 

[Porky]

Gaming "journalism" (or more accurately 'the enthusiast press') is so tied up with access that they can't help but act as amplifiers for a corporate PR strategy.

Click to shrink...

You're only noticing it this year? The more successful the outlet, the closer it gets to the machine and more in line with traditional/corporate thinking they become. A lot of them also play the incredibly boring line of adopting the same grievances of popular forums/reddits, just echoing the same opinions you read day-to-day. Mainly to appease viewers but also not appear out of line to publishers/developers.

Compare the podcasts/shows at the end of Gametrailers to content Easy Allies produce now. May sound harsh but I think it's true, their content is a lot less edgy and feels less independent despite them being probably the most independent large outlet out there.

Eurogamer and Game Informer are the main outlets I read/watch now that manage to hold on to a matter of unique opinion/critique. Then they just get labeled as click-baiters.

 

[thebishop]

We have resetera I guess. I think we fill the role of not having special access and discussing anything there is information about.

Click to shrink...

But "we" collectively are not journalists. Arguably the moderators make journalistic decisions in protecting the anonymity of people who post unauthorized material here (tho imo that's pretty rare). I don't see how ERA could responsibly cultivate anonymous sources and report unauthorized stories in a way that built credibility over time.

 

[Zen Hero]

But "we" collectively are not journalists. Arguably the moderators make journalistic decisions in protecting the anonymity of people who post unauthorized material here (tho imo that's pretty rare). I don't see how ERA could responsibly cultivate anonymous sources and report unauthorized stories in a way that built credibility over time.

Click to shrink...

That's true, we don't fill that role.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Not allowed to promote your own stuff.

Click to shrink...

What you talking about mate? It's literally in the General Guide that he's allowed to do this.

Do not create threads featuring links to products or services that you have a direct involvement in. Members are instead welcome and encouraged to post in already existing threads about a product or service that they are involved in (including links that are specifically relevant to the thread) so that they may engage with the community. If you are involved in a product or service that you are linking, please disclose that fact upfront.

Click to shrink...

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I think Judges Week seems to kill the hype for some a bit but at least it gives them the opportunity to preview the games they wouldn't get to otherwise due to the ridiculous busyness of E3.

 

[Demacabre]

In big press? Kotaku has a "don't give a fuck about your payola deal with our marketing team, here's what we want to print" attitude, OP.

Plus they have one of the best journalists in the business.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

In big press? Kotaku has "a don't give a fuck about your payola, here's what we want to print" attitude, OP.

Plus they have one of the best journalist's in the business.

Click to shrink...

Correction, they have the THEE best journalists in the business. Only Waypoint is second to them.

There's a stark difference between What Kotaku puts out and what websites such as GameSpot and IGN put out. The latter being practically entertainment websites with some nifty features and the occasional headline grabber, while the former is consistently reporting on actual issues in the industry with a mix of exclusive coverage (like confirming Watch Dogs London exists, etc).

A big reason why I went from being a senior staff writer at MP1st to being a freelance journalist was because the management at the site continuously made sketchy decisions that I wasn't comfortable with and I continued to be blind in the moral harm it was causing. Soon after, I realized the story I was proud of most was one that wasn't a rehash of another site's reporting or some random reddit post that did all the work. And that's honestly shameful.

 

[Grue]

To be clear: I'm not naming anyone as a shill. Signing an NDA does not make you a shill. But it does control what you can talk about. And the more NDAs a person accumulates, the less she can talk about by definition.

To me shilling is about giving favorable coverage to friendly companies, and unfavorable coverage to others. This takes many forms. It could be a company is a major advertiser on your site. Or it could be a writer aspires to work for one of the companies they cover. Or a company employs people who are friends with a writer.

These are all realities, but I didn't intend to name anyone for those when I was talking about NDAs. I named them because they've both talked about being limited in what "predictions" they can make. That's not the same as shilling.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, just felt things were being conflated.

Like I said, tightrope walk. (And it rightly deserves scrutiny now and then).

 

[Demacabre]

Correction, they have the THEE best journalists in the business. Only Waypoint is second to them.

There's a stark difference between What Kotaku puts out and what websites such as GameSpot and IGN put out. The latter being practically entertainment websites with some nifty features and the occasional headline grabber, while the former is consistently reporting on actual issues in the industry with a mix of exclusive coverage (like confirming Watch Dogs London exists, etc).

A big reason why I went from being a senior staff writer at MP1st to being a freelance journalist was because the management at the site continuously made sketchy decisions that I wasn't comfortable with and I continued to be blind in the moral harm it was causing. Soon after, I realized the story I was proud of most was one that wasn't a rehash of another site's reporting or some random reddit post that did all the work. And that's honestly shameful.

Click to shrink...

Completely in agreement with your first points. They have proven to be crucial for raising awareness to major issues in gaming.

On your latter point, I really respect your decision. It isn't the easy choice at all and you stood by your principles. We definitely need more people like you in the journalism sphere (and not just specifically gaming).