Are sound cards going to make a come back with the big 3D audio push?

SirMossyBloke · May 2, 2020

Pargon said:
Do you have examples of these games which are best on PC but missing multichannel audio support?

PC games supported 3D Audio long before console manufacturers started talking about it.

The frustrating thing is that Microsoft killed DirectSound3D's hardware acceleration support.
But Creative has software (ALchemy) which can translate those calls to OpenAL, and the hardware can be accessed directly in games which use OpenAL.
So it wasn't actually dead, but it seems that most people thought it was and abandoned sound cards en masse.

I keep an X-Fi card in my PC today, because I still play older games with EAX support.
I am frustrated that a recent change in Windows 10 required these old sound devices to have updated drivers, and my Auzen X-Fi (with HDMI audio) no longer works.

The Witcher 3 is better on PC, but there's a bug where it only outputs stereo on most PCs. It's actually the one reason why I stopped playing it on PC. Stereo is awful.

On topic though. I don't see a reason for sound cards really. I plug HDMI into my video card then into my receiver and it sounds great, especially Dolby Atmos.

Midgarian · May 2, 2020

Krejlooc said:
maaaaaan this post makes me feel old

early computers did not have any sort of audio processing capabilities. They had a single piezo beeper. Using your CPU, you could command it to make a beeping noise, and by modulating the beeps you could very crudely produce audio, like so:

This was entirely software driven, the CPU had control over the beeper (it was just a blunt "on" or "off" command) so to modulate the noise to produce that sound, you'd have to run code on your CPU, which tied it up from doing other tasks.

As time went along, dedicated cards you could put into your computer would contain co-processors that could drive special chips with more audio capabilities separately from the CPU. The most well known of these were the sound blaster cards. To "blast" audio is demoscene jargon, it means to directly interface with hardware without the use of an API. These cards used what was known as an OPL chip, which contained various voices (channels) that could be independently controlled. Early sound cards could only produce a certain range of sounds.

Eventually, the processors on these sound cards became complex enough to decode wave forms, which let them produce any sound imaginable, and eventually those processors became embedded cores inside of motherboards. Today, however, those cores are largely gone, and we've gone back to just using the CPU to drive the audio, but because modern CPUs are so ridiculously fast, it's no longer a big problem like it was in the 80's.

First you teach me Ray Tracing, now you teach me how Sound Cards work. Will have to start calling you Professor.

Iron Eddie · May 2, 2020

Sanctuary said:
Still using one of these in each of my PCs:

There's an entire segment who specifically buy external amps and DACs to use with PCs because they care about sound. Then there are other groups who build HTPCs that really do care about sound. And let's ignore all of the competitive players who wear headphones for positional audio too. But sure, most PC users don't care about sound. Really gotta get the best sound possible with data entry!

I still have one of these but I've moved onto a DAC with USB for headphones and powered speakers.

Pargon · May 2, 2020

tokkun said:
Remember when Nvidia made motherboard chipsets that supported realtime AC-3 encoding? Those were the days.

Yeah, also I remember the dispute between Intel and NVIDIA that forced them out of the motherboard chipset business (Intel said their 4 year contract did not include a license to produce chipsets for newer products).
The original Xbox used the same SoundStorm chipset. I believe it may have been funded by Microsoft.

spool said:
Wish you had read my edit, sorry you had to install Mass Effect just to check.

Don't worry about it, it only took a minute to test once it had downloaded.

SirMossyBloke said:
The Witcher 3 is better on PC, but there's a bug where it only outputs stereo on most PCs. It's actually the one reason why I stopped playing it on PC. Stereo is awful.

From a quick search, it seems like the problem is with Dolby Digital Live encoding; i.e. 5.1 over S/PDIF. There shouldn't be any problem with HDMI which uses LPCM.

SirMossyBloke said:
On topic though. I don't see a reason for sound cards really. I plug HDMI into my video card then into my receiver and it sounds great, especially Dolby Atmos.

It's far less necessary today, but a return of sound cards could still be useful for audio processing capabilities.

I use the S/PDIF output from my X-Fi card into an external DAC, so its analog audio hardware doesn't even matter. The reason I still use it today is for its hardware EAX processing for older games, and 3D Audio/5.1 Virtual Surround support.
I do still hope that Creative will release an updated driver so that I can switch back to my Auzen card with HDMI out, as the alternative is analog 7.1 or dolby digital 5.1 compressed audio for surround sound.

Apharmd said:
Nah. Sound on PC is a mess, a generation or more behind, and largely forgotten. It's a sorry situation.

You're going to have to explain what you mean if you post something like this.

1-D_FE · May 2, 2020

cowbanana said:
I've never not used a dedicated sound card, that RealTek shit they put on most motherboards is unbearable.

With the complete mess they made of the situation, I feel using your GPU is the best option (if you don't have some exotic need that can't be met with your GPU).

LordRuyn · May 2, 2020

cowbanana said:
I've never not used a dedicated sound card, that RealTek shit they put on most motherboards is unbearable.

Some motherboards have ESS DACs on them but they are usually higher-end Aorus boards. Unfortunately, since they are not implemented in the same way that those same chips are in standalone DAC units, they suffer from the ESS IMD hump. So you'd need to get a newer external DAC anyway, since OEMs have now started addressing the problem in newly released units after user complaints about it on older ones. Here's what it looks like:

br0ken_shad0w · May 2, 2020

Sanctuary said:
Still using one of these in each of my PCs:

I still have that as well, but I'll probably ditch it and just go with an external DAC or my PC. I'm so sick of dealing with driver issues and Realtek/Nvidia always trying to take control every time there's an update.

Sanctuary · May 2, 2020

br0ken_shad0w said:
I still have that as well, but I'll probably ditch it and just go with an external DACf or my PC. I'm so sick of dealing with driver issues and Realtek/Nvidia always trying to take control every time there's an update.

For a while, I would infrequently have major high pitched screeching problems with the card when watching certain types of media. The kind that could cause permanent hearing loss after a minute. This would usually happen if I was watching one of the embedded videos on Gamespot, or something on Youtube and would then click my mouse anywhere on the controls, or if I would simply let media continue to play and it would jump from one video to the next. Similarly with watching media off of a hard drive (like blu-ray rips of an entire season of something) and letting them automatically play each episode.

This only happened in those specific scenarios, and after it happening so often I just braced for it potentially happening. I'm not sure if something in a Windows update changed this, but it has not happened once yet (knock on wood) in a year and a half. I have a dedicated headphone amp, and am likely going to get a DAC sometime this year, but for gaming and movies I like more than stereo.

sir_crocodile · May 2, 2020

Roland MT-32 for life

Spark · May 2, 2020

Soundblaster soundcards are still very nice, I have an external one and my headphones sound punchier when using it. Plus other features like legacy EAX support and prioritizing footstep sounds in multiplayer games.

Weltall Zero · May 2, 2020

Krejlooc said:
maaaaaan this post makes me feel old

early computers did not have any sort of audio processing capabilities. They had a single piezo beeper. Using your CPU, you could command it to make a beeping noise, and by modulating the beeps you could very crudely produce audio, like so:

This was entirely software driven, the CPU had control over the beeper (it was just a blunt "on" or "off" command) so to modulate the noise to produce that sound, you'd have to run code on your CPU, which tied it up from doing other tasks.

As time went along, dedicated cards you could put into your computer would contain co-processors that could drive special chips with more audio capabilities separately from the CPU. The most well known of these were the sound blaster cards. To "blast" audio is demoscene jargon, it means to directly interface with hardware without the use of an API. These cards used what was known as an OPL chip, which contained various voices (channels) that could be independently controlled. Early sound cards could only produce a certain range of sounds.

Eventually, the processors on these sound cards became complex enough to decode wave forms, which let them produce any sound imaginable, and eventually those processors became embedded cores inside of motherboards. Today, however, those cores are largely gone, and we've gone back to just using the CPU to drive the audio, but because modern CPUs are so ridiculously fast, it's no longer a big problem like it was in the 80's.

This is an awesome post but it would be even better if you embedded this video too for comparison's sake:

Herne · May 2, 2020

I just gave away my Sound Blaster Z to a friend. Not only could I not hear much of a difference between that and the shitty onboard Realtek chip with my 5.1 speakers, but it caused significant problems with one game in particular - in Mount & Blade Warband, where the audio would randomly "crackle", come back, repeat again and the finally die so I could hear nothing at all. Creative were not interested in finding out what was causing it or offering a solution. Not having a need for it I sent it on to a friend with a Roccat Kave 5.1 headset, which had more cables than your average motherboard's audio ports could handle.

It's funny seeing people say they can hear the difference between a dedicated sound card and a cheap Realtek chip and I can't, yet on the media pc hooked up to a receiver I can clearly tell the difference in say, Dolby Digital to TrueHD/Atmos.

I doubt sound cards are coming back to the pc in a big way. Graphics cards already support all the major "HD" audio formats should any game developer choose to use them.

medyej · May 2, 2020

I've always used sound cards to this day, onboard audio just doesn't do it for me and generally doesn't drive my headphones well. I've gone back and forth between external usb dac's and internal sound cards but I'd wager most people these days use external USB dacs that come with their headset.

spool said:
I know that some people care deeply about their stereo experience, but that's where is ends for most PC audio enthusiasts. Have you ever seen someone recommend the superior PC port of a game but also caution that it lacks surround sound support? I haven't.

What are you talking about? Almost every game supports surround sound on PC, even going back to the EAX days. A game that doesn't support surround sound would be an extreme outlier. That is how virtual surround has functioned on PC for years and years now.

leng jai said:
Is 3D audio another thing people are going to think consoles invented just because they only recently started supporting it?

Yes.

Turnabout Sisters · May 2, 2020

I know a lot of people don't really have a choice and must use headphones, but these stereo solutions like Atmos for Headphones and Windows Sonic don't interest me whatsoever. A surround setup really ought to be the standard, the cost of a decent setup is less than the cost of a TV. I keep my PC hooked up to my receiver+5.1.2 system and everything always just works.

I thought it was totally bizarre for Cerny to say nothing about how tempest would work with surround setups when it is supposedly competing with atmos in the first place. It seems like most game/movie audio enthsiasts already have a receiver that supports a 5.1.2 setup with atmos, so it's bold of them to not work with what people already have. Atmos already has momentum in the 4k movie space, I don't see tempest being a good move for sony.

A receiver basically is a sound card and many people already have one.

Deleted member 49611 · May 2, 2020

doubt it but i wouldn't mind. i had a soundcard until i upgraded my motherboard (z390 master) last year. i felt the audio was better so i got rid of the sound card. i'd definitely buy a soundcard again if it offered better than what's on my motherboard.

Deleted member 1722 · May 2, 2020

Most people I game with use external USB DACs and AMPs. Its basically the same as a soundcard, from that pov soundcards are very popular still.

Red · May 2, 2020

I bought a new sound card just a few years ago, since I had no other way to handle coaxial out, and I needed it for my soundbar. Dedicated cards still have their uses.

Pargon · May 2, 2020

Maya Fey said:
I know a lot of people don't really have a choice and must use headphones, but these stereo solutions like Atmos for Headphones and Windows Sonic don't interest me whatsoever. A surround setup really ought to be the standard, the cost of a decent setup is less than the cost of a TV. I keep my PC hooked up to my receiver+5.1.2 system and everything always just works.

The cost is not the biggest problem for most people.
For me, the issue is placement of the center and surround (and now height) channels along with the associated cabling.
Great stereo/2.1 is not a problem for me, but there just isn't an easy way to make 5.1, 7.1, or Atmos work in any of my rooms due to the size, shape, or existing furniture.
And I'd rather have great stereo than use a sound bar.

spool · May 2, 2020

grandwizorb said:
What are you talking about? Almost every game supports surround sound on PC, even going back to the EAX days. A game that doesn't support surround sound would be an extreme outlier. That is how virtual surround has functioned on PC for years and years now.

I've had a lot of issues, but then I mostly play old-ish games so that might be why. Or maybe I just have been that unlucky. I wish I could remember more examples, but I don't keep notes on this. I've certainly wondered at times why I even have surround sound if I'm not going to get any use out of it.

Also, while you didn't address me personally, I don't think Sony is inventing anything brand new here, my worry is whether games will have parity in terms of sound-related features and quality for your average game going into next gen, because it would presumably mean a lot more work this time around and it would be an easy feature to cut since few would miss it. Other people are wondering how exactly it will be accomplished. I don't think "hurr durr PC is behind consoles" is a fair reading of the thread.

Skade · May 2, 2020

Well, they already have with my computer. Not because of 3D sound or something like that. No. It's just because the realtek drivers are crap and lose sound synchronisation on streaming any video longer than 15 minutes.

It made me rage so much with the lockdown that i got an external one just to plug my speakers on and get rid of that stupid problem.

Futaleufu · May 2, 2020

Krejlooc said:
maaaaaan this post makes me feel old

early computers did not have any sort of audio processing capabilities. They had a single piezo beeper. Using your CPU, you could command it to make a beeping noise, and by modulating the beeps you could very crudely produce audio, like so:

This was entirely software driven, the CPU had control over the beeper (it was just a blunt "on" or "off" command) so to modulate the noise to produce that sound, you'd have to run code on your CPU, which tied it up from doing other tasks.

We also had gems like this

score01 · May 2, 2020

I remember installing my first adlib sound card, then progressing onto a soundblaster 32. Good times!

Powerofthecloud · May 2, 2020

poptire said:
I don't miss the days of setting up soundcard IRQ settings and junk for hours and still not getting sound.

Thats been gone for 25 years since Windows 95 had auto assignment for hardware when it came out.

Jonnax · May 2, 2020

It'll be either on the GPU or CPUs will just brute force it with extra power over the next few years.

poptire · May 2, 2020

Powerofthecloud said:
Thats been gone for 25 years since Windows 95 had auto assignment for hardware when it came out.

OK, and I don't miss it.

BlockABoots · May 2, 2020

Still rocking my Sound Blaster X FI Titanium

defaltoption · May 2, 2020

Highly doubt it but I actually wouldn't mind, especially if they figure out how to better shield them from GPU noise. Im tired of having extra crap on my desk and I'd love to be able to get rid of my dac amp.

icecream · May 2, 2020

GhostTrick said:
To the point that you even have freaking visual novels released in 2003 with binaural HRTF 3D Audio.

Which game is this?

low-G · May 2, 2020

Seems to me the future of audio is software, as it has been for a while.

Finaika said:
Wait so next gen consoles will have better sound than PCs?

It will depend on the games. Because it's possible to trivially (performance wise) implement ray traced audio even on a fraction of the CPU overhead a PC will have over next gen consoles...

I just don't think devs will use a fraction of PC nor console audio capabilities... :/

JershJopstin · May 2, 2020

Maya Fey said:
I know a lot of people don't really have a choice and must use headphones, but these stereo solutions like Atmos for Headphones and Windows Sonic don't interest me whatsoever.

I'm curious; are you familiar with how binaural audio works?

Deleted member 56306 · May 2, 2020

Krejlooc said:
maaaaaan this post makes me feel old

early computers did not have any sort of audio processing capabilities. They had a single piezo beeper. Using your CPU, you could command it to make a beeping noise, and by modulating the beeps you could very crudely produce audio, like so:

This was entirely software driven, the CPU had control over the beeper (it was just a blunt "on" or "off" command) so to modulate the noise to produce that sound, you'd have to run code on your CPU, which tied it up from doing other tasks.

As time went along, dedicated cards you could put into your computer would contain co-processors that could drive special chips with more audio capabilities separately from the CPU. The most well known of these were the sound blaster cards. To "blast" audio is demoscene jargon, it means to directly interface with hardware without the use of an API. These cards used what was known as an OPL chip, which contained various voices (channels) that could be independently controlled. Early sound cards could only produce a certain range of sounds.

Eventually, the processors on these sound cards became complex enough to decode wave forms, which let them produce any sound imaginable, and eventually those processors became embedded cores inside of motherboards. Today, however, those cores are largely gone, and we've gone back to just using the CPU to drive the audio, but because modern CPUs are so ridiculously fast, it's no longer a big problem like it was in the 80's.

This is a bop.

Kieli · May 2, 2020

I think my car has the best speakers out of any of the ones I use. For PC games, I stick with on-board sound and $50 BestBuy speakers and call it a day.

GhostTrick · May 2, 2020

icecream said:
Which game is this?

Muv-Luv

icecream · May 2, 2020

GhostTrick said:
Muv-Luv

Never realized this, that's pretty neat.

s_mirage · May 2, 2020

BlockABoots said:
Still rocking my Sound Blaster X FI Titanium

Same. I actually wouldn't have blamed Creative if they hadn't updated its drivers for newer versions of Windows 10. I'd have bought a newer card but I can't find a single compelling reason to, and I can't be alone.

Jhey Cyphre · May 2, 2020

Yeah. I retired my Asus Xonar in my latest build. I didn't install it right away and by the time I remembered about the damn thing I couldn't think of a reason why I would want to install it with the onboard audio being more then fine.

Inugami · May 2, 2020

Krejlooc said:
maaaaaan this post makes me feel old

early computers did not have any sort of audio processing capabilities. They had a single piezo beeper. Using your CPU, you could command it to make a beeping noise, and by modulating the beeps you could very crudely produce audio, like so:

This was entirely software driven, the CPU had control over the beeper (it was just a blunt "on" or "off" command) so to modulate the noise to produce that sound, you'd have to run code on your CPU, which tied it up from doing other tasks.

As time went along, dedicated cards you could put into your computer would contain co-processors that could drive special chips with more audio capabilities separately from the CPU. The most well known of these were the sound blaster cards. To "blast" audio is demoscene jargon, it means to directly interface with hardware without the use of an API. These cards used what was known as an OPL chip, which contained various voices (channels) that could be independently controlled. Early sound cards could only produce a certain range of sounds.

Eventually, the processors on these sound cards became complex enough to decode wave forms, which let them produce any sound imaginable, and eventually those processors became embedded cores inside of motherboards. Today, however, those cores are largely gone, and we've gone back to just using the CPU to drive the audio, but because modern CPUs are so ridiculously fast, it's no longer a big problem like it was in the 80's.

To add too this, early computers could also output to an external midi device like the Roland MT32, or in one case a couple models of Casio keyboards.

dock · May 2, 2020

My first PC had a Gravis Ultrasound soundcard. Juggling RAM allocation for that in autoexec.bat and opting for adlib sound because it gave me 10k back. What a pain.

What's up with Realtek audio? I have some nice headphones but use my computer's realtek sound for everything.

Heynongman! · May 2, 2020

GhostTrick said:
It's like some people truly believe Cerny invented 3D Audio with Tempest engine.

Some people really fall for marketing hype, especially if they're looking for "secret sauce". Headphone 3D solutions on pc have been around forever. I remember shortly after Wrath launched in 08 in WoW they started using a software 3D sound engine for headphones that was pretty dang crazy.

Not to mention the Xbox one has excellent 3D audio with Windows sonic and even better with the Atmos headphone - but only a few games support Atmos. And the ps4 even has the surround sound stereo headset that I've heard is quite good.

I don't doubt next gen will up the sound quality with both consoles beefing up their sound processors, but holy shit some of the posts I've seen regarding this "tempest engine" are hilarious

PurpleMoustache · May 2, 2020

So this is a good as place as any to ask this:
Sound card people, what's the advantage of going with a sound card rather than an external DAC/Amp? I have a Schiit Fulla 2 (and could upgrade to the Magni 2 Uber if I get the USB DAC for it (and a box to make it still pass through my turntable)) and... doesn't this achieve the same goal as a sound card? A dedicated sound device that can process/output sound at a higher quality than motherboard audio? One that doesn't require hardware upgrades and instead just a USB cable?

Pargon · May 2, 2020

PurpleMoustache said:
Sound card people, what's the advantage of going with a sound card rather than an external DAC/Amp?

Sound cards are like a DAC, Amp, ADC, and Processor all in one.
The processing is specifically things like virtual surround for headphones, and other audio enhancements.
Many people prefer that it's internal to the PC and not another external box taking up space.
With its PCIe connection, they are generally able to achieve lower latency compared to a shared bus like USB which also has additional CPU overheads.
And in my case, I'm still using an older X-Fi sound card because those have real EAX 5.0 hardware on-board (environmental audio effects) which still works in older games (2008 and earlier) via Creative's ALchemy software. Newer cards use software emulation (if any) which doesn't play all effects correctly.

The actual audio quality should not be a concern really, and a dedicated headphone amplifier could be better than many sound card outputs which were often fairly high impedance.
If I recall correctly many are around 32–40 ohms or so. That's far better than most AVRs, but a well-designed headphone amplifier will be <1 ohm.

shnitzel · May 2, 2020

Im using the M-Audio Air Hub (USB DAC) for my monitors & headphone. Pretty comfy with seperate audio knobs.

br0ken_shad0w · May 3, 2020

Sanctuary said:
For a while, I would infrequently have major high pitched screeching problems with the card when watching certain types of media. The kind that could cause permanent hearing loss after a minute. This would usually happen if I was watching one of the embedded videos on Gamespot, or something on Youtube and would then click my mouse anywhere on the controls, or if I would simply let media continue to play and it would jump from one video to the next. Similarly with watching media off of a hard drive (like blu-ray rips of an entire season of something) and letting them automatically play each episode.

This only happened in those specific scenarios, and after it happening so often I just braced for it potentially happening. I'm not sure if something in a Windows update changed this, but it has not happened once yet (knock on wood) in a year and a half. I have a dedicated headphone amp, and am likely going to get a DAC sometime this year, but for gaming and movies I like more than stereo.

I had that screeching problem too and it also went away on my end around the same time. I got the STX primarily to avoid less clutter on my desk area. My dedicated amp already takes up quite a bit of space, but the drivers problems just are too annoying to deal with. I'll probably replace it with the same DAC leng jai has, since we both have the same headphones and use similar amps.

CthulhuSars · May 3, 2020

sir_crocodile said:
Roland MT-32 for life

This was the first expensive thing I bought as a kid. I mowed the fuck out of lawns and did so many chores and I had this before I had a NES.

It really is crazy that people think the PS5 is going to have some next level space age sound that PC's just don't have access to.

medyej · May 3, 2020

spool said:
I've had a lot of issues, but then I mostly play old-ish games so that might be why. Or maybe I just have been that unlucky. I wish I could remember more examples, but I don't keep notes on this. I've certainly wondered at times why I even have surround sound if I'm not going to get any use out of it.

Also, while you didn't address me personally, I don't think Sony is inventing anything brand new here, my worry is whether games will have parity in terms of sound-related features and quality for your average game going into next gen, because it would presumably mean a lot more work this time around and it would be an easy feature to cut since few would miss it. Other people are wondering how exactly it will be accomplished. I don't think "hurr durr PC is behind consoles" is a fair reading of the thread.

I think at the very minimum we'll get the same thing we have had since Gen 7 games, which is standard surround sound (except on Nintendo stuff for whatever reason) for 5.1/7.1 that can be well translated into virtual surround by whatever tech one prefers. Adding onto that though is we'll probably see more games with tech like Dolby Atmos baked in.

PurpleMoustache said:
So this is a good as place as any to ask this:
Sound card people, what's the advantage of going with a sound card rather than an external DAC/Amp? I have a Schiit Fulla 2 (and could upgrade to the Magni 2 Uber if I get the USB DAC for it (and a box to make it still pass through my turntable)) and... doesn't this achieve the same goal as a sound card? A dedicated sound device that can process/output sound at a higher quality than motherboard audio? One that doesn't require hardware upgrades and instead just a USB cable?

I use an internal card mainly because of the features on it that I use like noise cancelling on my mic input and SBX for virtual surround. The one I use also has a pretty good amp built in so I could finally retire the external amp I was using that was taking up desk space and using another power connector. I could use an external sound card that does all that but I'd rather just not have another thing cluttering up my desk. There are issues you can have with interference and noise with an internal card in my case I've avoided that.

RankFTW · May 3, 2020

I've never not had a sound card in my PC and I'm currently using a Sound Blaster Z. I run a 3.5 mm jack to my Logitech sound system as well as an optical cable to my Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless headphones. Both of these can be used simultaneously if needed or separately and swapping between them is a case of turning the volume down on my speakers and just popping the headphones on. I find that using the onboard sound from a motherboard is inferior to this.

Finaika · May 3, 2020

RankFTW said:
I've never not had a sound card in my PC and I'm currently using a Sound Blaster Z. I run a 3.5 mm jack to my Logitech sound system as well as an optical cable to my Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless headphones. Both of these can be used simultaneously if needed or separately and swapping between them is a case of turning the volume down on my speakers and just popping the headphones on. I find that using the onboard sound from a motherboard is inferior to this.

I have the same sound card, hooked up to my 5.1 speakers via optical.

It's a beast!

vivftp · May 3, 2020

Sigh, this thread just makes me realize I miss my old Philips Acoustic Edge

RIP old friend.

Madjoki · May 3, 2020

I had forgotten, in old days you had to run cable from cd drive to audio card.

Timu · May 3, 2020

Maybe, but I'm still using a sound card!

Are sound cards going to make a come back with the big 3D audio push?

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