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Oct 27, 2017
5,364
All the talk about the new generation had me in a Pokemon mood, so I went back to play some games like Pokemon Colosseum, Pokemon Pinball, and Pokemon Conquest (this game is so good and underappreciated). But it got me thinking, other than Detective Pikachu which came out over three and a half years ago, we haven't gotten any Pokemon spin-offs for consoles since then (not including the updates it and Pokken got).

Sure, we got Pokemon Quest for the Switch, but then we have:
  • Pokemon Masters
  • Pokemon Duel
  • Pokemon Rumble Rush
  • And Pokemon GO
All only available to smartphones. While I do think Pokemon Duel is great, it definitely feels like something that would be more fun to enjoy were it a full-fledged title. Rumble Rush is also fun, but it even has more time and exploration constraints than Rumble World's F2P version did. Overall, it's still great that we're getting Pokemon spin-offs, but to be honest, it feels less exciting when it's delivered as a free-to-play service. As someone who really enjoyed the titles I mention in my first sentence, along with the Rangers games, the Mystery Dungeon series, and both Stadium titles, it's unfortunate that games like those aren't being made anymore.

What do you all think about the series taking this direction?
 

tonyh24613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
684
Switch after two years only got a WiiU/arcade port and shared a game with mobile. The only upcoming one is DP sequel. So yes.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
Except the biggest ones like Detective Pikachu and Pokken, yes. The only one that has a chance is Mystery Dungeon.

Rangers is dead and Stadium is irrelevant. Strange experiments like Pokémon Dash or Learn with Pokemon Typing Adventures I do not think they have any place anymore.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
I mean it's harder to make lower budget games to sell at retail these days as people have higher expectations, so year I expect the majority of spin-offs to be on mobile.

Especially as they're still chasing the GO dragon. GO was an anamoly but people continue to think of it as the standard.

So yeah, I'm expecting mobile games to be common for spin-offs in the next few years, but I don't think they'll be as profitable as people think.
 

Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,677
Disappointing much like the rest of Pokemon's direction.

The mobile games are fun but there's no soul behind them for the most part, Masters looks like the most interesting one by far but that's not exactly hard.

I'm sure we will still get full fledged spin offs, but they're gonna be rarer than before. At the very least we know Detective Pikachu should be getting a follow up and I'm hoping Pokken 2 is a thing because that game is a lot fun.

But yeah, gone are the games like Mystery Dungeon 2 and Pokemon Conquest, seems like.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Now? But yeah, they are. If TPC could somehow finesse their way into making multi-plat Pokemon then maybe they'd consider it, but as of now smartphones reach a much wider audience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Feels like the franchise is big enough to warrant licensing it out for various spin offs on switch and mobile so it's weird that outside of Pokken...they don't seem interested?
Perhaps due to also wanting Pokémon to be an anual franchise, dunno.

Endless Ocean devs working on Pokémon snap would make sense
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
It's not as if 3DS had many, really. Apart from Mystery Dungeon, most of the spin-offs have already died many years ago.
 

N75

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,232
TPC hopped onto the F2P/Mobile train well before Nintendo did.

Even though a lot of the titles died off, they haven't stopped trying ever since GO caused their profits to soar. Masters is probably going to make bank too.

I don't expect many console spin-offs besides Detective Pikachu and Pokken and even the latter is dependent on Bamco.
 

Acevil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
315
I mean it's harder to make lower budget games to sell at retail these days as people have higher expectations, so year I expect the majority of spin-offs to be on mobile.

Especially as they're still chasing the GO dragon. GO was an anamoly but people continue to think of it as the standard.

So yeah, I'm expecting mobile games to be common for spin-offs in the next few years, but I don't think they'll be as profitable as people think.

Totally agree with you, they try releasing spinoff on the switch that remotely looks less, they will get huge backlash right away and the ROI will not be as great for them to be worth trying to deal with the PR annoyances. Pokemon Masters will be the true test for them, and I think it will pay off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
mean it's harder to make lower budget games to sell at retail these days as people have higher expectations, so year I expect the majority of spin-offs to be on mobile.
The solution would be to give these games a bigger budget?
It's not like they're fighting for resources from one team, niantic, DeNA, and Tencent dont generally work on console games.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
The solution would be to give these games a bigger budget?
It's not like they're fighting for resources from one team, niantic, DeNA, and Tencent dont generally work on console games.
Doesn't matter if they have a bigger budget. Pokémon spin-off games aren't exactly big sellers. Like Acevil said, it's all about return of investment

Detective Pikachu didn't break 1 million from what I can tell
Pokkén did break 1 million...twice

The best selling was Dungeon games at ~5 million.

Most don't break 1 million units.
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,098
Yes, because Nintendo no longer has a dedicated low-powered handheld. Making games for Switch is hard and users have high expectations.

It's just a natural result of handheld disappearing. It not only affects Pokémon.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
Pokemon Rangers 2 and 3 were made by Creatures. Now they are busy with Detective Pikachu so here we talk about substitution. Pokken is like Pokemon Conquest, a crossover with an ip of a third party.

Actually the only important absence is Spike Chunsoft with Mystery Dungeon. The rest is just the disappearance of strange experiments like Dash
 

aLoneWalker

Attempted to create multiple alt accounts
Banned
Jul 16, 2019
158
Game Freak has clearly become more and more tired of doing Pokémon, they can't even do a mainline game properly, as if they could do a spin-off like Explorers of Time now.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
Game Freak has clearly become more and more tired of doing Pokémon, they can't even do a mainline game properly, as if they could do a spin-off like Explorers of Time now.
Stop it. That is not even remotely true.

Especially as, aside from Pokémon Quest, Game Freak do not do spin-offs.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,805
Seems to be the case. Detective Pikachu on the Switch is an outlier caused by the movie, probably.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
It's just so much easier to get and keep a dedicated base on mobile, the ceiling for money to be made is just absurdly higher compared to games on systems/handhelds
 

Zeroneo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
666
I wish they'd make a Ranger for smartphones then. Though I'm not entirely sure how it'd be possible to turn that into a profitable game. Pokémons themselves couldn't be gacha so they'd have to sell capturing aids.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Pokémon Pinball would actually work really well on mobile with the vertical screen.
 

Slamtastic

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,485
A new single player TCG RPG, another attempt at a tactical RPG by different devs, Snap 2...

The world had its chance and we proved we don't deserve these.

The worst part is if you look at Witcher/Zelda, a card game sidequest and a camera mode could just be in regular main games if Game Freak just made them better and did more.
 

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
I just want stuff like another Mystery Dungeon game. Or a Conquest sequel. You know, fully-fledged spin-offs that bring Pokemon to other suitable genres. I don't exactly get that from the mobile efforts.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
I see a mixture of mobile and Switch games but an increase of mobile games was always going to happen after Go. Also the fact that HD development takes time and might not always be worth the investment for spin-offs that don't sell as well as mainline games.
 

aLoneWalker

Attempted to create multiple alt accounts
Banned
Jul 16, 2019
158
User banned (1 day): lazy dev rhetoric; hostility towards other users
Stop it. That is not even remotely true.

Especially as, aside from Pokémon Quest, Game Freak do not do spin-offs.
Still, the quality of the mainline has massively decreased and they became more and more lazy, Town being a proof they want to do something else.

The fact GF didn't make those spin offs doesn't change the fact there won't be any anymore also the one Mystery Dungeon for 3DS sucked.
 
OP
OP
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
Doesn't matter if they have a bigger budget. Pokémon spin-off games aren't exactly big sellers. Like Acevil said, it's all about return of investment

Detective Pikachu didn't break 1 million from what I can tell
Pokkén did break 1 million...twice

The best selling was Dungeon games at ~5 million.

Most don't break 1 million units.

The Mystery Dungeon games are pretty great in their own right, but it's kind of interesting to see how they sort of allowed for original and other collaboration Mystery Dungeon games to be released as well.

Disappointing much like the rest of Pokemon's direction.

The mobile games are fun but there's no soul behind them for the most part, Masters looks like the most interesting one by far but that's not exactly hard.

I'm sure we will still get full fledged spin offs, but they're gonna be rarer than before. At the very least we know Detective Pikachu should be getting a follow up and I'm hoping Pokken 2 is a thing because that game is a lot fun.

But yeah, gone are the games like Mystery Dungeon 2 and Pokemon Conquest, seems like.

The bolded part is what really bothers me about the spinoffs too. I am excited for Pokemon Masters, and I do hope they try to get another full fledged spin off on consoles again after S&S releases. Although I think Namco probably is going to be busy with getting the next Tekken out for next-gen consoles so I don't think we'll see Pokken for a while.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
We do not even have a page of the topic that does not even concern Game Freak and we already have post of lazy devs.
 

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
Still, the quality of the mainline has massively decreased and they became more and more lazy, Town being a proof they want to do something else.

The fact GF didn't make those spin offs doesn't change the fact there won't be any anymore also the one Mystery Dungeon for 3DS sucked.

They made two Mystery Dungeon games for 3DS and the second one was a return to form as far as I'm concerned.
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Yes, because Nintendo no longer has a dedicated low-powered handheld. Making games for Switch is hard and users have high expectations.

It's just a natural result of handheld disappearing. It not only affects Pokémon.
I wish more people actually realized this. Is like making high-quality videogames is hard or something.

Especially as they're still chasing the GO dragon. GO was an anamoly but people continue to think of it as the standard.

This urges me so much and sadly is so true. Investors and other money people truly still believe anything Pokemon branded has to sell like hotcakes, when that's not the case, at least not anymore. Some people are hoping Pokemon Sleep to be their next big hit, which I no doubt believe its gonna be massive (whether people like it or not), but no way near the popularity or financial gain of Go. That way of seeing the business needs to go, but money talks at the end of the day.
 
Last edited:

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
We might be getting less spinoffs, but I think the ones we're getting are some of their best yet. I love Pokkén and Detective Pikachu.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Doesn't matter if they have a bigger budget. Pokémon spin-off games aren't exactly big sellers. Like Acevil said, it's all about return of investment

Detective Pikachu didn't break 1 million from what I can tell
Pokkén did break 1 million...twice

The best selling was Dungeon games at ~5 million.

Most don't break 1 million units.
They haven't really made a big one in awhile. Wouldn't call Detective Pikachu and it's weird release (episodic in japan/europe(?) and then full release after Switch launched) big budget.
Pokken sold 2.41M, that's pretty good. Was also an arcade game and was exclusively for like a year IIRC.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
They haven't really made a big one in awhile. Wouldn't call Detective Pikachu and it's weird release (episodic in japan/europe(?) and then full release after Switch launched) big budget.
Pokken sold 2.41M, that's pretty good. Was also an arcade game and was exclusively for like a year IIRC.
I understand that the arcade part did not work very well. Few characters and it was very easy, with little money you could play a lot of time.
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
N64/GB will always be the golden era of Pokémon spinoffs.

Though as a whole, spinoffs are dying off as Nintendo focuses on one piece of hardware. Splatoon is four years old and zero spinoffs.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
Still, the quality of the mainline has massively decreased and they became more and more lazy, Town being a proof they want to do something else.

The fact GF didn't make those spin offs doesn't change the fact there won't be any anymore also the one Mystery Dungeon for 3DS sucked.
Gear Project, of which Town is a part, has existed since 2009/2010 in order to give Game Freak developers a way to not suffer burnout and bring new ideas back to Pokémon. These projects have existed for years. Just because one isn't complete yet doesn't mean it's proof that they want to do something else.

Also, I disagree the quality has massively decreased or that they are "more lazy". Also there were two Mystery Dungeon games on 3DS
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
This urges me so much and sadly is so true. Investors and other money people truly still believe anything Pokemon branded has to sell like hotcakes, when that's not the case, at least not anymore. Some people are hoping Pokemon Sleep to be their next big hit, which I no doubt believe its gonna be massive (whether people like it or not), but no way near the popularity or financial gain of Go. That way of seeing the business needs to go, but money talks at the end of the day.
It has never been the case, that's the thing that people keep missing. It's the main games that do well. Games don't just do well because it's Pokémon. Most spin-off games don't break 1m units and the ones that do don't typically do that much better
 

aLoneWalker

Attempted to create multiple alt accounts
Banned
Jul 16, 2019
158
Also there were two Mystery Dungeon games on 3DS
Thanks for repeating for the second time what others have stated before you, I was mainly referring to the Super Mystery Dungeon.
Also, I disagree the quality has massively decreased or that they are "more lazy".
Of course you disagree, you do this for your living, it's impossible you'd have any gripes about pokémon games.

Thread ignored.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
Of course you disagree, you do this for your living, it's impossible you'd have any gripes about pokémon games.
Someone clearly doesn't follow me.

I gripe constantly about mobile games and Mystery Dungeon games. I even shared my disagreement with the dex cull (despite understanding how development works and that it was inevitable).
 
Feb 26, 2019
4,273
Tijuana
It's a shame, because I feel like those are the games they could focus on when they say they want their development teams to focus on other things so they can go back to Pokémon with fresh ideas. I know it sounds ironic that they would move from Pokémon main games to spin offs, like, I suppose the point of it all is moving away from Pokémon altogether, but I think even if it was still Pokémon themed, they could take the chance to explore all kinds of new gameplays and styles and graphics and whatnot.

I always felt like those spin-offs were the games that could totally stay away from the main game formula, that could totally and understandably have a cut roster, introduce all kinds of stories and characters, and mechanics and items and whatever they needed.

I still play Pokémon Shuffle to this day, every day, and I play Pokémon Go, they're fun, they're simple, they're addictive, but they feel incomplete to me. They don't feel like real games, mainly because graphically they're very simple, for more updates that they get, a mobile game will never feel as complete as a console game.

Detective Pikachu was a strange choice and I still don't understand the idea behind it or how it came about, and I think I didn't even finish it, because it was very boring, to me. But I appreciated the effort of trying to do something unprecedented in the Pokémon franchise, and you know, bring a whole new experience. Pokken was a nice attempt too (I would've preferred something more like Smash or like an actual Tekken game, but again, the idea is appreciated).

I just think it's such a waste of potential.

I love platform games, or however you call all those games like Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Crash Bandicoot, etc. My dream would be to have a platform Pokémon game, with several worlds and levels and bosses. You could use obviously Pikachu and maybe a selection of Pokémon you would befriend along the way. Maybe have some power-ups, I don't know. I think Pokémon needs something like that. Mystery Dungeon was amazing in the sense that you could be any Pokémon (in the latest game that was done) but the gameplay is what prevents it from being more popular, I think. I'm convinced they need a spin-off that is so much more fast paced, with more action, that you can actually move the Pokémon around like you do in Super Smash. Whenever I play the classic mode in Smash with a Pokémon character, when I reach that part where you have to destroy the boxes and run for your life in that maze-like platform level, I'm always like, damn, I wish this was a full game, with other Pokémon acting as enemies and whatnot.


But yeah, each time I lose more hopes that they explore that route, and I think from now on we'll only get mobile games, and maybe just some adaptations like Quest (which was really boring and ugly looking, but hey, they tried).
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
I'm still bummed that Pokken wasn't a Tekken clone with only fighting-types like it was rumoured and was instead a weird and janky mix of anime arena fighter, Smash and Tekken
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,518
Spain
I'm still bummed that Pokken wasn't a Tekken clone with only fighting-types like it was rumoured and was instead a weird and janky mix of anime arena fighter, Smash and Tekken
I can understand about the gameplay, but a Pokken with only fighting type Pokémon would be terrible a terrible roster.