Are many bosses in Demon's Souls kind of bad?

[Jonathan Lanza]

Not every boss has to be about anime dodging telegraphed attacks and I personally think Dark Souls III can be boring since almost every boss is like that.

The raw combat of these games is very simple. So it's best when bosses incorporate many different facets of the game instead of just reducing everything down to "roll at the right time". I personally think that's the LEAST interesting part of these game.

 

[Morrigan]

I personally think Dark Souls III can be boring since almost every boss is like that.

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IDK, it has its share of gimmick bosses compared to, say, Bloodborne. Crystal Sage, Curse-rotted Greatwood, Deacons, Wolnir, Yhorm, Ancient Wyvern, Spears of the Church...
...Then again, outside of the last one they're kinda mediocre and the best bosses are the "classic" style ones lol

 

[Karlinel]

I was so disappointed on DeS that sold it the day I platinumed it. It has the ancestor's value but it has been hugely surpassed.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

They're enjoyable enough and their presentation is fantastic. I do like the concept of gimmick bosses as well. DS3 had its fair share, that game remains unrivaled when it comes to boss fights, though Sekiro and Bloodborne with DLC come close.
As a game though, I much prefer Demon's over Dark.

 

[pappacone]

I think at the time the Zelda influence was bigger, which led to bosses being something similar to puzzles

 

[Papercuts]

I always felt like Demon's Souls was surpassed in pretty much every area, but the bosses are the biggest change. I don't mind them being more experimental overall but there's a lot of duds. It was so funny to finally fight Dragon God after seeing it plastered in all the marketing just for...whatever the hell that fight is.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Sekiro wins in boss variety as well.

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Ok I love Sekiro but it repeats the same mini bosses and bosses 3839292 times

(please note that I never got far in any Souls game to make an actual comparison, I just want to say that Sekiro does a lot of repeats)

 

[Colfari]

This is it.

The stages are the "hard" part. The bosses aren't really meant to frustrate you with difficulty. All of them have some sort of trick you can learn to trivialize them.

Some are just more obvious than others.

Biorr will take out Penetrator pretty much by himself, provided you found him.

The maneaters just melt against fire. If you found Yuria and have firestorm you can one shot them. If not the lava bow makes very quick work of them.

Old Hero is blind, and the stage itself goads you to use the thiefs ring every chance it can as a huge hint.

Armor spider is laughably weak to magic, and his only real offensive attack is fire based. By the time you reach him there's at least one shield that blocks fire at 70% and one at 80% which trivializes the encounter.

Flameluker is the exact same situation as above, only the game gives you yet another shield that's 70% to fire in 2-2 to ensure you got the point.

Astrea and Garl arent the big threats as the boss of world 5, the plague swamp is. You can avoid the issue entirely by sniping Astrea safely out of the reach of the plague babies on the left or the right.

Fool's idol is meant to teach you to fully explore the stage, not just rush the boss. This happens earlier in the stage as well- you can try to rush the ballista and get to the end of the stage the hard way after a couple of deaths, or you can pick up the key, backtrack and walk around the ballista from the back. Amusingly the ballista is shaped exactly like fool's idol- it is a giant blinking neon sign to NOT rush this boss head on.

Similarly if you fully explore the stage, fool's idol's "gimmick" becomes obvious and you'll only have to fight her once. Her second trick (making copies) becomes easy to figure out- her worshippers will point you right to the real one.

Ajuducator can be shot at range from the
Upper level. There's even a trophy for it.

Old Monk is the only truly "random" boss, but the run to him is very easy if you remember the Graverobbers ring makes it very difficult for black phantoms to see you, and a decent bow will obliterate them while keeping you out of range of their attacks.

The stages themselves are meant to test you and grind you down. The bosses (outside of one or two) are puzzles to see how well you were paying attention during the stage. MANY stages have a theme, and the boss shares a weakness to what's in the stage prior.

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The MVP in this thread, very well said.

 

[EndlessNever]

I genuinely think Dragon God is worse than Bed of Chaos.

 

[StrappingYoungLance]

There were only three that I wasn't into - Leechmonger, Dirty Colossus and Dragon God. The first two just felt kind of lame and I beat with little resistance, the third felt like one of the worst realised setpieces I've played in a while. The rest were fun if not regularly just a gimmick, but gimmicks can be fun so 🤷.

I haven't played the other games beyond the first boss or two though so I don't have that measuring stick.

 

[FallenGrace]

I love the Demons Souls bosses. They are so memorable for a lot of reasons. Their design stands out a lot.

The only one I don't like is Dragon God. I find that tedious and inconsistent.

 

[Deleted member 29857]

I've one shotted so many other players as the Old Monk. I feel bad for ya'll. But a Firestorm spell build is just too OP.

Have to agree with OP tho. I've only enjoyed the Storm King fight, but that was because the level was the best in the game, not the fight itself.

 

[.exe]

IDK, it has its share of gimmick bosses compared to, say, Bloodborne. Crystal Sage, Curse-rotted Greatwood, Deacons, Wolnir, Yhorm, Ancient Wyvern, Spears of the Church...
...Then again, outside of the last one they're kinda mediocre and the best bosses are the "classic" style ones lol

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Was the trick with Crystal Sage to hit it until it dies? Because if not, I may have been doing something wrong 😸

 

[Ferrs]

Guys, all the bosses but one are about rolling and attack too in here. Demon's not a turn based rpg or something.

 

[julia crawford]

I love all the bosses really. It's clear that they were just trying stuff out. That's a lot more interesting to me. Use a sword that breaks the wind to kill a flying monster? Hell yes. Fight a man who will give his very life to protect a saintly woman? I mean that's fucked up. That's sad.

A lot of things in Demon's Souls are more about the impression they make on you, by their aesthetics and experience rather than enjoyable mechanics. People who think Souls games are all about gameplay never seem to recognise this.

 

[Gelf]

Though I loved some boss fights they where absolutely one of the weaker aspects of the original for me, I assume that didn't change in the remake which I haven't played. This is something From certainly improved at over the years, DS3, BB and Sekiro are all excellent in that regard.

I also have nothing against puzzle or set piece bosses though but the ones in Demons don't particularly excite me. Dragon God in particular was an anticlimax.

 

[Capra]

I think characterizing DeS bosses as "gimmick" bosses is doing the game a disservice for what it is. The bosses aren't the main event - they're just what marks the end of the stage. Getting through the level itself is enough of a challenge on its own most of the time.

I like Demon's Souls because it's more of an adventure in the vein of Zelda a lot of the time - you have to use your wits to overcome these massive adversaries more often than your actual fighting skills.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I was expecting this kind of reaction to the remake since it was announced. The series has progressed a lot and many of the bosses in DeS are very simple compared to what came after it. I think it still stands up really well in terms of variety of bosses, but certainly some of the encounter types have been bettered in the later games, which you'd hope for right, it is a game from 2 generations back.

 

[Ionic]

Besides King Allant, every end level boss was a disappointment for me. Astraea involved parrying a guy who stood still 4 times in a row to win and I don't care to watch a 30 minute Vaati video about how it was actually really thematic and sad. The Dragon God may as well have been a janky QTE boss and they spent the beginning of the game hyping this thing up. The Old Monk uses the PVP mechanic which I understand was very innovative at the time, but I am not about the jank of fighting some guy 400 milliseconds away. And the Storm King apparently had a whole magic sword gimmick that looks super cool but because the boss was so easy to take down with arrows I didn't even realize any of that was an option. Seriously, Godzilla sized flying manta ray loses a fat slice of health to a single arrow.

I enjoyed the Maneaters and the Flamelurker I suppose. I think I was supposed to enjoy the Penetrator but my compatriot bodied him almost without my assistance. I guess it was kind of fun hitting the Tower Knight and Adjudicator weak points... The two swamp bosses were trivial to the point of not even having to learn their attacks in order to win. I dunno, it's neat that the bosses were "unique" compared to the reaction and pattern based spectacle of the later games, but they really aren't my preference for how the series should work. This likely ties into my love for Sekiro which on a boss design philosophy is on the other side of an axis to Demon's Souls.

Well, it was all very pretty looking at least.

 

[Baloota]

they're some of the best in the entire souls series

 

[Sky87]

Old King Allant is a badly designed bossfight in my eyes because of his Soulsuck mechanic. It wouldn't be as terrible if you had the movement fluidity of Nioh, but being stuck in long animations will get you screwed over in that fight if you don't know what to expect.

Other than that i didn't really dislike any of the bossfights, a few seemed a bit of a waste though (Dragon King).

 

[Deleted member 18823]

It's been years since I last played the game but I really liked how "gimmicky" the bosses are. Also I feel like that the core challenge of the game is the regular levels since there are no bonfires in between bosses - you die and it's back to the last checkpoint (either at the beginning of the stage or boss bonfires). Can't wait to get a PS5 and play the remake.

Though I remember Allant being some bullshit back then because he can suck a level out of you. And that bastard in Tower of Latria who keeps knocking me off the arena (forgot it's name - you fight it in an open area)

 

[Snarfington]

Demon's is my favourite game in the series by far because the bosses feel largely like an extension of the game world and level design and not just "oh well done, you got this far but here's a boss fight". They teach you lessons you need in the game and require knowledge and strategy you pick up from their levels. It's the best structured of all the Souls games I've played because of this. Some of the fights seem like gimmicks but it's because they're intending to teach you about the game, or to require you to use the skills you've learned in a specific way. It's very clever and old-school and unlike almost any game I've played in the last 20 years. I have really disliked how later games in the series' lineage have largely abandoned this idea for constant chip-and-dodge fights.

 

[Shiny Man]

I was there when the game came out and the gimmicky bosses were new and fresh for the time. They all had something unique about them that made them memorable. Now that the series went almost full action with its bosses it's understandable why people who never played Demon's before feel let down with how easy and simple they are in comparison.

But I will agree the game has alot of jank that Bluepoint should have corrected. The Maneater's AI and pathfinding are still garbage, Dragon God is still terrible and many fights get way too easy once you expand your arsenal instead of scaling properly with NG+. It was perfectly understandable for the first game in 2009, with a remake that had the chance to improve on all of this...not so much.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Maybe I'm weird but I don't play Souls games for the combat. I have DMC/Bayonetta etc. for that sort of gameplay. Demon's Souls expects you to pay attention rather than just being mechanically adept in order to figure out the bosses. Dark Souls 3 might genuinely be my least favorite game in the series in spite of having by far the best controls, simply because the bosses are hard in all the wrong ways. I'd much rather pelt Storm King with arrows for an hour without noticing I can just use the special weapon than killed for the twentieth time by delayed attack animations designed to "catch the player rolling".

(All that said, Bed of Chaos is pure shit.)

 

[Tibarn]

The bosses of Demon's Souls are mostly gimmicky, like the entire game tbh. They can be memorable the first time, but when you replay the game after playing the newer entries in the Souls series, all of them feel really basic and simple, knowing how to kill them (their specific gimmick I mean) is 90% of the fight because their limited moveset and poor AI make all of them really easy to exploit.

I feel that Dark Souls I has a far better balance of gimmick bosses and bosses that need to be killed using the player's skill, and while BB/DkS III have a far lesser amount of gimmick bosses, I think it's for the better considering that Souls games are meant to be replayed.

 

[Capra]

Maybe I'm weird but I don't play Souls games for the combat. I have DMC/Bayonetta etc. for that sort of gameplay. Demon's Souls expects you to pay attention rather than just being mechanically adept in order to figure out the bosses. Dark Souls 3 might genuinely be my least favorite game in the series in spite of having by far the best controls, simply because the bosses are hard in all the wrong ways. I'd much rather pelt Storm King with arrows for an hour without noticing I can just use the special weapon than killed for the twentieth time by delayed attack animations designed to "catch the player rolling".

(All that said, Bed of Chaos is pure shit.)

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Yeah, the thing about Dark Souls 3 is that like, for as mechanically tight and challenging as the bosses are, they basically boil down to the same repetitive cycle of "dodge this long attack combo flawlessly and then get in a few hits before the next combo." Ostensibly it should be a good thing that the series got more focused on challenging the player to master its core mechanics, but after replaying them back to back I feel like it devolved over time. DS3 in my mind just congeals into this flavorless mass of endless rolling and waiting for an opening.

 

[eXistor]

Considering it's their first venture into the series (though there are very obvious influences from their earlier games like King's Field) I think it's something that's easily overlooked, but yes, the bosses become much more of a big deal in later games. It's a bit like saying the boss battles in SMB are pretty bad compared to Super Mario World.

 

[Forgiven Empathy]

I can get they are meant to be gimmicks mostly, that's fine. Most of them just aren't very interesting gimmicks however, and their AI isn't very good, though that goes for most enemies in the game.

Arena's were kind of cool at least, and the music was nice.

 

[Mars People]

Demon's Souls is all about the shitty gimmick boss.
Thankfully From more or less got away from that in the following games.

I still think Demon's Souls is the weakest game in the series. Even compared to DS2.

 

[behOemoth]

It actually made me realize that the gimmicky ones are pretty great to mixup the flow of the game and should be included in future games.

However, the sound design battling the storm king was superb.

 

[Deleted member 8852]

It's the birth of a genre, and in the end that does show.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Tbh a lot of demons souls remake feels very much like a 2009 video game that discovered something really cool but hadn't really polished any of it yet. It's neat as a historical artifact but it's completely outclassed by later entries.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Haven't played it in years, but they're fine even if they're on the lower end of the From spectrum of boss fights.
I actually kinda like how varied they can be in execution, with later games like DS3 feeling like 80% aggressive dodge brawling it's actually kinda nice to have something a bit more reigned in if I'm honest, and I beat all those nutters in 3 and its DLC!

Generally I prefer my From boss lineup to have a mix, I think Dark 1 and Bloodborne mostly get this balance of novelties and sweaty palmed rucks (y'know, ignoring that say Bed of Chaos is one of those "novelties")

 

[Sande]

I wouldn't say bad. Demon's Souls had a pretty different approach to bosses. They were less a final hurdle and more a victory lap for beating the level. I think it was on purpose considering how much longer and more difficult the run back tends to be in that game.

 

[Knight in Shining Armani]

They're either piss easy or gimmicky. I think the only one that I didn't kill first try in the remake was Flamelurker. The Penetrator was begging for a health bar refill and more aggressive second phase.

 

[pixeldreams]

As characters they are some of the best in the series, as actual fights...not so much. Most are gimmicky and fortunately have a weakness that can be easily exploited. Getting to the bosses is the real challenge of the game, it's about the journey, not the destination.

 

[BrunOz]

Yeah they're all easy / gimmicky but each one will have a memorable or distinct aspect tied to them.

Mind you that Demon's Souls was the first From Software take on their now established formula. Those bosses were a lot more scary when the game first released on the PS3 and everything was fresh.

Players experience with the Souls series and their expectations evolved with time, so obviously From raised the bar with the boss difficulty with each sequel, when you try to finish Bloodborne again, try to think about Demon's Souls bosses while you do it.

Demon's Souls was released in 2009, and it was the first Souls game, it's just prettier on your PS5 in 2020, but it's still a debut and a kinda experimental title (in a few aspects) from 2009 at it's core.

 

[Deleted member 87246]

A bit off topic but I'm really really really struggling difficulty wise with this game which is strange as I've beaten DS, DSIII and BB a few years ago.

Can anyone recommend the perfect "easy mode" starting class, item and build. Many thanks.

 

[Roven]

They're also mostly cheesable with a bow

 

[Jimnymebob]

I really like the boss desigs for the most part, even if most of them aree super easy, and I wish they kept them more in this style in later games.
The gimmicks can be hit and miss, but it's more engaging than either standing under a large bosses legs and stabbing it in the ass or circle strafing/dodging to the right against a humanoid sword/melee weapon user with up to 3 health bars.

 

[Manmademan]

A bit off topic but I'm really really really struggling difficulty wise with this game which is strange as I've beaten DS, DSIII and BB a few years ago.

Can anyone recommend the perfect "easy mode" starting class, item and build. Many thanks.

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Its much easier starting as a royal since most things in the game have a magic weakness.

That won't make the game "easy mode" but it will help a lot in the first few stages.

The game isn't that hard, but hanging out in the OT those struggling with the game (that didn't in dark souls etc) tend to make the same few mistakes, usually trying to go "sword and board" with very heavy armor.

The "fat roll" in this game when you are wearing heavy armor isn't a viable build, the game is telling you that you are too heavy and need to drop weight.

You don't HAVE to go mage/hybrid with a bunch of spells but the game is built for it and you should have at least a couple of basic spells or miracles.

Pay close attention to enemy weaknesses. A lot of people have trouble with the skeletons in world 4 because they don't realize those things are weak to blunt weapons and fire weapons. You have a weapon that's both, world 4 isn't a problem. The same is true for the enemies in world 2, except switch "blunt and fire" for "magic and piercing"

Don't rush straight into 1-2 after you beat the phalanx. Take some time to explore 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, and 5-1. All of them have special weapons and gear found early in the stage that make the game much easier.

Picking up a bow to "pull" enemies toward you to break up mobs or snipe from range is also recommended.

 

[Jimnymebob]

A bit off topic but I'm really really really struggling difficulty wise with this game which is strange as I've beaten DS, DSIII and BB a few years ago.

Can anyone recommend the perfect "easy mode" starting class, item and build. Many thanks.

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Royal, or just any class and dump points into magic is OP. With Demon's, if you find yourself fat or medium rolling, make sure to equip like the heaviest/best defense armour possible for that tier. like, if you're fat rolling, don't be doing so because you have mediumweight armour but your boots are heavy: just go full Brushwood or something. Fat roll isn't ideal, but I wouldn't say it's unviable as long as you have super high defense armour, a lot of HP, and a good shield.

 

[DarkFlame92]

DeS is the least refined Souls game,since it was the first. I disagree though that it has that many bad bosses,most of them were ok or good. Yes the gimmick bosses suck,but they always had a number of gimmick bosses on every soulsborne

 

[spman2099]

I understand why some people have a problem with the Demon's Souls bosses, but I think they tend to be pretty fun and varied. Do they match up with the bosses from Bloodborne or Sekiro? Absolutely not. But those games set a pretty impossibly high bar.

 

[Ailanthium]

I enjoy the levels well enough but the bosses well and truly blow. The best of them are neat in concept and meh in execution, at least compared to every other game FromSoft has made since. Dragon God is the epitome of terrible gimmick bosses that have nothing to do with what the game's taught you.

 

[janusff]

the remake was my first experience with the game and while i loved it overall, the boss design left a lot to be desired. there were 4 who went down just as quickly and with as little effort as Pinwheel, and Dragon God gives Bed of Chaos a run for its money as the shittest boss From has ever designed. Penetrator and King Allant were standouts, i liked Tower Knight, Flamelurker, and Old Hero as quality fights, and i do think Storm King is the best spectacle boss in any From game until Divine Dragon in Sekiro. but even Penetrator doesn't hold a candle to DS1's best bosses, let alone the finest from Bloodborne/DS3/Sekiro

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yep. this is where i'm at. good take

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Honestly, yeah, kind of. It's a relic of the fact DeS is the first "Souls" game - From was still figuring out how bosses should even function. There are a few good ones, though.

That said, I DO NOT MIND bosses being designed to be fought normally who also have well-scripted weak points that make the fights massively easier if you choose to use them. From has really moved away from bosses having exploitable weaknesses in recent games and I actually find that a lot less fun.

Mechanical perfection isn't fun for me. I don't like being forced into "dodge god" territory just to progress. Let me cheese bosses if I want to.

 

[jett]

They're pretty poor in comparison to From's newer efforts. From has made huge strides since.

 

[Astral]

I'm kind of curious about what people expected out of Dragon God. Like, have you seen that dude? He's a giant jacked up dragon. He's fucking huge. How do you fight something so big in a straight up duel? I'm fine with the gimmick honestly. It only killed me in the original but in the remake I never died because I'm cool.