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Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
I finished the Demon's Souls Remake yesterday. I never played the original, and played all other Souls games as well as BB and Sekiro. I was kind of expecting DeS to be less well designed than its successors, but in the end I was kind of surprised how few bosses I actually liked and how many I disliked.

Let's go through them.

Phalanx
This one was just a bit annoying. I was never in danger of losing the fight, but because of the shields the fight dragged on longer than it needed.

Tower Knight
I enjoyed this fight. I felt actually threatened, and chipping away at the legs of this giant to bring him down was a cool idea.

Penetrator
This might have been my favorite, the boss left me little wriggle room and I had to get used to his rythm and dodge accordingly, keeping the long range of his weapon in mind.

King Allant
He had cool moves, but was quickly predictable. He also sometimes kept spamming AOE attacks so I just would have to wait outside range.

Armor Spider
The spider was alright. It's oil attack and shooting webs took me by surprise, but I got quickly used to it and the wait after its oil/fire attack got a bit tiring.

Flamelurker
He was fine. Not a big moveset, he mostly just annoyed me with the little damage he took from an Uchigatana, until I just switched to an enchanted Falchion.

Dragon God
This boss is bad. It's a gimmick boss, and not a fun one. Playing hide and seek until you get oneshotted or reach a ballista is just not fun.

Fools Idol
Also kind of a gimmick boss, but a bit more challenging one. The green magic circles seemed kind of eh as you wouldnt be able to see all of them before they turn invisible anyway, even if you could remember their placements. Also yes, I had to defeat this one twice. Meeeeh.

Maneater
Two enemies in this case just means a big mess, hugging the big fire in the middle and chipping away at them. Also they fly around a lot wasting time not doing anything.

Old Monk
This motherfucker. The run to him is bad (two Mind Flayers). Fighting an NPC who can just decide to parry and oneshot you is bad. Online people are assholes, like waiting in front of the fog gate to cast fire AOE spells.

In the end there was this guy I lost against four times. I decided fuck it, put down the controller, wait for him to disconnect and try the NPC again. After ten minutes not disconnecting he sends me a friend request. I go into the boss room, and he shows me his back and lets me win. Sigh.

Adjudicator
His gimmick is that he's only vulnerable for melee characters on one spot on his belly, oh no! Lots of circling around and hitting said spot until he falls. Yay?

Old Hero
He's ok. No bullshit, but not a very interesting fight either. Many of his attacks couldnt hit me standing right under him.

Storm King
Another gimmick boss. Not annoying and bad like the Dragon God, but also not very challenging. I guess it was nice to look at from an atmosphere standpoint and the sword had a good oomph to it. But not what I would consider a good boss.

Leechmonger and Dirty Colossus
I'm putting these two together because they annoyed me the same way and I defeated them the same way. One shoots leeches at me, sucking health and regenerating, which was simply frustrating, the other annoys me with swarms of bugs.

Solution? Black Pine Resin and burst damage these assholes into oblivion.

Maiden Astraea
Another NPC who parried and oneshotted me. Then I went back and parried him two or three times. Done. Lame.

So in the end the first world and second world were mostly fine, but Dragon God and most of world 3, 4 and 5? Mediocre or bad.

What say you Era?
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,271
As someone who just played through the game for the first time on PS5 I sort of agree. Maybe not bad, but definitely gimmicky. I think they were just going for something different than the difficult skill-based boss challenges in the later Souls games. I certainly had an easier time chipping through Demons Souls than any other Soulsborne game.
 
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Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
As someone who just played through the game for the first time on PS5 I sort of agree. Maybe not bad, but definitely gimmicky. I think they were just going for something different than the difficult skill-based boss challenges in the later Souls games. I certainly had an easier time chipping through Demons Souls than any other Soulsborne game.
It definitely surprised me how many of the bosses relied on gimmicks. Not many I consider really really bad, but a lot of gimmicks and some bosses that are just meh.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
The only boss I dislike is Dirty Colossus. All of the others I appreciate for trying something different or being scrappy; I wouldn't want them to all be "fight fairly nimble roughly human sized opponents with a large set of moves". Those may be a high point in the singular, like, say, Penetrator, but I'd not want that to be the entire game. Dragon God and Adjudicator, for instance, I'm a big fan of, but so too do I appreciate Old Monk and Flamelurker. Sure, some of the bosses aren't necessarily spectacular, but they do at least mix things up.

Dirty Colossus just blows though. Super easy, few moves, nothing new in style or execution or anything. At least Leechmonger had the question of how to navigate the arena.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
It's not Dark Souls 3 tier bosses, but I enjoy this brochette of villainy a lot. Penetrator rules.
 

brenobnfm

Member
Sep 28, 2019
1,673
No, they not as replayable but much more memorable than the 50 Artorias clones (and i don't mean Abyss Watchers here) from Rolling Simulator 3
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,483
Yes, it wasn't until Dark Souls that the bosses truly began to shine.

Demon's was more about people getting their first taste of the Souls format. The bosses were there as part of that format rather than the stars of it.
 

ZeroRay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
362
I liked the Bosses in DeS for the most part since all the battles have appropriately designed environments for whatever gimmick they're running rather than 30 enclosed circular (or rectangular!) arenas.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
I feel like other Souls games also did the Fool's Idol format... Crystal Sage in DSIII comes to mind. Anyway doesn't help that Bluepoint kept the jankiness of some boss fights e.g. Maneater.

I think From got bosses right in Dark Souls DLC. Dark Souls base has great bosses like O&S but they're also overall meh, reskins, and just garbage. DSII bosses are overall meh but good in the DLC.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Yes, Demon's Souls is full of gimmick bosses but I like that. They are all at least unique fights. Later Dark Souls boss design kind of boils down to just dodge fests.
 

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
Most of them are cool as a concept or lore wise, but the fight themselves are very bad. Like, Leechmonger is a nice idea, a being made of leeches that heals constantly because of them, and feels appropriate for the place you fight it. But the fight is very easy, and you basically don't care about its healing, you just dodge the big attacks and do damage.

In general, I feel only King Allant and Flamelurker are fights that I liked, to a lesser extend Tower Knight and Penetrator, but they're basically just average if you compare them with the rest of the DS games.
 

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,079
May sound nitpicky, but I'm not a fan of King Allant having an attack that effectively de-levels you.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,539
Switzerland
Personally i miss these gimmick bosses! They tried to bring back some of them in later entries but it was never truly the same! Having to think how to beat the boss with the environnement rather than just figuring out the pattern is pretty cool in my book!
 

Dynedom

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,666
I would take the bosses in DeS over any of the bosses in DkS2, save the DLC. Much more memorable.

That being said, Bloodborne and DkS3 are stellar in that regard.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
I'd be curious to know from folks which of the Soulsborne games have the best variety of bosses. I wanna say...DS3?
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
They're mostly gimmick fights, yeah. I expect some people who played the other games but are new to this to be underwhelmed to some extent.

I think the gimmicky/puzzle-like nature of the fights give Demon's Souls more of a different identity compared to Miyazaki's later games, which is nice. The way some fights tie into the lore like Maiden Astraea is simply brilliant. While the aforementioned fight isn't difficult, it delivers a real gut punch.

I'm glad they've been left as they are, but I still really don't like the Dragon God fight. : p
 

Vic20

Member
Nov 10, 2019
3,270
Honestly enjoyed them more than any of the dark souls ones, the demon's souls universe is just more interesting than dark souls imo.
 
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Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
The only boss I dislike is Dirty Colossus. All of the others I appreciate for trying something different or being scrappy; I wouldn't want them to all be "fight fairly nimble roughly human sized opponents with a large set of moves". Those may be a high point in the singular, like, say, Penetrator, but I'd not want that to be the entire game. Dragon God and Adjudicator, for instance, I'm a big fan of, but so too do I appreciate Old Monk and Flamelurker. Sure, some of the bosses aren't necessarily spectacular, but they do at least mix things up.

Dirty Colossus just blows though. Super easy, few moves, nothing new in style or execution or anything. At least Leechmonger had the question of how to navigate the arena.
Dont get me wrong, I also dont want to fight human sized bosses only and appreciate some mix up, but not the Dragon God kind. I take a more normal boss with a difficult moveset over that. Things like Storm King or Fools Idol are fine for mixing it up, but still not great. Hard to pick really good gimmick fights in the whole series honestly.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,614
Even by normal, non-from game standards, DeS bosses are kind of meh to bad. Compared to From's later entries in Bloodborne, DS3, and especially sekiro, it's downright laughable the disparity.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,384
Gimmick =/= bad, which seems to mostly be where you're at. As a whole, the bosses of DeS are still exemplary / memorable as fuck.
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,556
Edit: Wrong thread post.

On topic.
I was actually surprised how easy most of the bosses were in this game. I felt like the Tower Knight was one of the best bosses in the game because of the layers of strategies that comes along with fighting him (taking out the archers/ trying to get behind his shield to attack his legs/ attack his head when he falls down). I felt like the other bosses haven't really had that same kind of quality thought the game.
 
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SoulsHunt

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
3,622
Demon's Souls is more about the stages than epic bosses. They are not bad tho, and surely unique.
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,039
Honestly enjoyed them more than any of the dark souls ones, the demon's souls universe is just more interesting than dark souls imo.

This 100%. The Demon's Souls world is far more enjoyable to me than any Dark Souls game has been. Though, I am loving Bloodborne (and haven't played Sekiro), but Demon's Souls is solid.
 

Tuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,581
Yes. There are some awesome ones like Allant, but the majority are not good. Dark SOuls was a big improvement in this regard.
 

Roubjon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,269
I adore all the bosses. What I love about Demon's Souls is how much of a puzzle it feels like a lot of the time. The game has this arcadey feel Castlevania Rondo of Blood gives me, where initially its super hard but try out different strategies with different tools and it becomes manageable.

So many Souls bosses just become "wait until the sword ia about to be swung and then dodgeroll."
 

Stoze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,588
I feel like demon's souls is all about mastering the stages. The bosses are more like dramatic events
This. Unlike most of the rest of the series Demon's doesn't have checkpoints or multiple bonfires before bosses, you die and you go back to the start (although there's unlockable shortcuts in many levels to mitigate this). If they made the bosses more challenging and involved, people would likely drop it in frustration and/or tedium of having to do the levels so much. Especially because some of these run-backs have virtually unavoidable enemies in them, like in 1-4.

I think they are simpler and more puzzle-like by design to account for the more arduous level completion.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
I feel like demon's souls is all about mastering the stages. The bosses are more like dramatic events

This. I haven't played the remaster but i remember the original feeling so ominous. As if the map itself was trying to kill you.

Sekiro.

Not just the best Souls/Borne bosses, but some of the best bosses of all time.

Replaying this right now and the bosses are exhilarating. Great stuff.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Dragon God, just avoid his gaze and its easy peasy.

Also, this was the first Souls game. Gotta give them a little slack, they made better bosses since, also made many more worse, puzzle and gimmick bosses too.
 

Kaah

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
1,823
Paris
Honestly a lot of them are awful and I really disliked how Bluepoint did not even tried to improve some (most ?) of them, they have the same animations, dumb AI and moveset.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,321
I mean, they aren't supposed to be bad. They are a rough draft that they improve upon each iteration.

I was not shocked how much easier Demon's Souls was in 2020 vs how easy it was back at launch.

It's like when you first start learning a language vs when you speak that language fluently.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
I feel like demon's souls is all about mastering the stages. The bosses are more like dramatic events

This is it.

The stages are the "hard" part. The bosses aren't really meant to frustrate you with difficulty. All of them have some sort of trick you can learn to trivialize them.

Some are just more obvious than others.

Biorr will take out Penetrator pretty much by himself, provided you found him.

The maneaters just melt against fire. If you found Yuria and have firestorm you can one shot them. If not the lava bow makes very quick work of them.

Old Hero is blind, and the stage itself goads you to use the thiefs ring every chance it can as a huge hint.

Armor spider is laughably weak to magic, and his only real offensive attack is fire based. By the time you reach him there's at least one shield that blocks fire at 70% and one at 80% which trivializes the encounter.

Flameluker is the exact same situation as above, only the game gives you yet another shield that's 70% to fire in 2-2 to ensure you got the point.

Astrea and Garl arent the big threats as the boss of world 5, the plague swamp is. You can avoid the issue entirely by sniping Astrea safely out of the reach of the plague babies on the left or the right.

Fool's idol is meant to teach you to fully explore the stage, not just rush the boss. This happens earlier in the stage as well- you can try to rush the ballista and get to the end of the stage the hard way after a couple of deaths, or you can pick up the key, backtrack and walk around the ballista from the back. Amusingly the ballista is shaped exactly like fool's idol- it is a giant blinking neon sign to NOT rush this boss head on.

Similarly if you fully explore the stage, fool's idol's "gimmick" becomes obvious and you'll only have to fight her once. Her second trick (making copies) becomes easy to figure out- her worshippers will point you right to the real one.

Ajuducator can be shot at range from the
Upper level. There's even a trophy for it.

Old Monk is the only truly "random" boss, but the run to him is very easy if you remember the Graverobbers ring makes it very difficult for black phantoms to see you, and a decent bow will obliterate them while keeping you out of range of their attacks.

The stages themselves are meant to test you and grind you down. The bosses (outside of one or two) are puzzles to see how well you were paying attention during the stage. MANY stages have a theme, and the boss shares a weakness to what's in the stage prior.
 
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FusionNY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,704
Yeah it's the weakest part of Demon's Souls by far. They've substantially improved their boss design since.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,541
They are fine as thematic/set piece/gimmick bosses.

Not all great bosses have to be action game dodge at the right time reflex bosses.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,095
A lot of them are gimmicks, from has improved with each release, except Dark Souls 2 which is total trash.
 

V has come to

Member
Dec 4, 2019
1,632
the remake was my first experience with the game and while i loved it overall, the boss design left a lot to be desired. there were 4 who went down just as quickly and with as little effort as Pinwheel, and Dragon God gives Bed of Chaos a run for its money as the shittest boss From has ever designed. Penetrator and King Allant were standouts, i liked Tower Knight, Flamelurker, and Old Hero as quality fights, and i do think Storm King is the best spectacle boss in any From game until Divine Dragon in Sekiro. but even Penetrator doesn't hold a candle to DS1's best bosses, let alone the finest from Bloodborne/DS3/Sekiro
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,420
São Paulo, Brazil
On average From did get better at making bosses into more than mere setpieces, but all of their games have their fair share of shit bosses.

Demon's has some really creative bosses, though, even among the shitty ones. It balances out.
 

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,687
I wish From would return to the idea of employing level design in boss encounters, it really made the bosses in Demon's shine -- most have a completely unique and complicated arena that changes how the fight must proceed. You still see some of this in Dark Souls (Taurus Demon, Capra Demon, Moonlight Butterfly, Gwyndolin, Iron Golem) and then it's gone and we mostly just get flat, empty arenas now. Now don't get me wrong, I like a lot of later From bosses, but I do wish we still saw more of this experimentation still. The fact that almost every Demon's boss tries something different should be applauded.
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
Yes. They're one of the weakest aspects of the game, especially on repeat playthroughs.

I wish From would return to the idea of employing level design in boss encounters, it really made the bosses in Demon's shine -- most have a completely unique and complicated arena that changes how the fight must proceed. You still see some of this in Dark Souls (Taurus Demon, Capra Demon, Moonlight Butterfly, Gwyndolin, Iron Golem) and then it's gone and we mostly just get flat, empty arenas now. Now don't get me wrong, I like a lot of later From bosses, but I do wish we still saw more of this experimentation still. The fact that almost every Demon's boss tries something different should be applauded.

This is a good point, though.