Are franchises relying way too much on expanded universe stories to explain things?

[Uzumaki Goku]

For example, Hyrule Historia confirms the Hero's Shade is from another Zelda but it's not explicitly stated in the game.

That's the thing about the expanded materials, you don't NEED or HAVE to know it, but it's there if you want to know.

But with how badly the Star Wars sequels bungled things. It's becoming a trend. Like you have to play this mobile game to understand Kingdom Hearts 3's story. Why Kakashi becomes Hokage isn't explained in the manga, but in a novel.

So yeah, are people going too far?

 

[Chivalry]

Maybe. I know I completely ignore all this nonsense, unless it comes directly from the writer/creator.

 

[imbarkus]

There's something beautiful about a self-contained one-off story with a beginning, middle, and end that provides internally all the elements it needs to execute successfully.

 

[Video Games Are Dumb]

I think the most damaging thing that media has done over the past 20 years is attempt to answer fan questions. It is so much more enjoyable to read or watch or play something and having a series of unresolved or unexplained events that ultimately don't significantly impact the narrative but create a sense of wonder in the audience.

The tragic part of this all is, it has gone on for decades now so fans now expect a series of explanations that they can Lord over other fans and entice them to buy extended material. Frankly I think prequels are poison. We need more mysteries in our fiction.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

Yes.

Though I think the MCU and DC are mostly exempt from this.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Yes.

Though I think the MCU and DC are mostly exempt from this.

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We could argue the MCU might be creeping into this with the Disney Plus shows.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

We could argue the MCU might be creeping into this with the Disney Plus shows.

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Oh. Yeah. I forgot those are coming.

The two big franchises, guilty of this, that come to mind are Harry Potter and Star Wars. We don't need answers to questions no one asked.

 

[Tohsaka]

Yes, I hate it. It's especially bad if you're a fan of niche Japanes franchises and a lot of the extra materials have no translations at all.

 

[Shodan14]

Too many franchises pretend that anyone cares about their story. If it's not story-focused, keep it simple and straightforward.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Oh. Yeah. I forgot those are coming.

The two big franchises, guilty of this, that come to mind are Harry Potter and Star Wars. We don't need answers to questions no one asked.

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Did you know how wizards and witches shit themselves before there were bathrooms?

 

[Syril]

Did you know how wizards and witches shit themselves before there were bathrooms?

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[kurahador]

Yeah...I hate it. Japanese media is guilty of this most of the time. Worst experience I've had with this was some old anime series called Gate Keepers which got an OVA sequel called Gate Keepers 21.

 

[Protoman200X]

From my perspective, it's a tool and a method. The hand that wields it decides its course.

 

[Hogendaz85]

There's something beautiful about a self-contained one-off story with a beginning, middle, and end that provides internally all the elements it needs to execute successfully.

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.

 

[Dary]

This isn't something that's really new - you just notice it more when the story in question is ongoing, especially in the age of the Internet.

I mean, there was a sequel to the Odyssey about the illegitimate son Odysseus had with Circe while she held him captive, ffs.

 

[Deleted member 59109]

I think having to know expanded universe stuff just overcomplicates things, a story should be totally coherent on its own. One of the worst examples of this I can think of is Warriors by Erin Hunter, you have to read a ton of supplemental stuff at this point to understand the main story. That being said, I think you can safely ignore all the Zelda references to other games, and take each game basically as its own thing, with the exception of maybe Majora's Mask.

 

[SageShinigami]

I think the most damaging thing that media has done over the past 20 years is attempt to answer fan questions. It is so much more enjoyable to read or watch or play something and having a series of unresolved or unexplained events that ultimately don't significantly impact the narrative but create a sense of wonder in the audience.

The tragic part of this all is, it has gone on for decades now so fans now expect a series of explanations that they can Lord over other fans and entice them to buy extended material. Frankly I think prequels are poison. We need more mysteries in our fiction.

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No. You do. I don't.

But you raise a good point. These "questions" were around before expanded material was a thing. You just didn't get an answer before.

 

[Video Games Are Dumb]

Yes.

Though I think the MCU and DC are mostly exempt from this.

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This is true but that's been comic book since the beginning

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Yeah it's mostly uninspired fluff, like I just want a story in an interesting setting but I don't wanna read some nerd bible to understand it

 

[808s & Villainy]

The Hero's Shade's idenitity and what's been going on with Star Wars is nothing alike. The former isn't really necessary to know, as Zelda games almost always operated completely independently (aside from the few direct sequels, and even still) while not knowing extra details in Star Wars has let to plotting/narrative issues and things not making much sense

 

[KamenSenshi]

Yes they do nowadays but they know there are enough people out there that will buy it to keep it happening. Why tell a good story from beginning to end when you could piecemeal it out and explain why the secondary character only likes a certain drink a certain way.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Yes. If you need to pull out the "yeah but you need to watch the animated side series to really get the story" card ... the story has fucked up.

 

[Sunster]

It is illegal to make a new movie or show that is not based on an existing IP.

 

[Mona]

Absolutely

 

[Rodney McKay]

Halo 4's story was bad because of this, and 5 was weird too with what little I played of it.

There were some extended universe stuff between Halo 1+2, but nothing really vital (like how Sarge survived), but everything is explained pretty well in Halo 1,2,3,ODST,and Reach.

But then 4 is like "here's the Didact!", "here's an angel lady give MC some weird "chosen one" powers!"
And 5 starts off with an ODST character (Buck) suddenly being a full Spartan, and also introducing a bunch of other Spartans that if you hadn't read the books you had no idea they were around.

 

[Deleted member 18021]

If whatever burning question you want to answer can't fit into the story you're telling, it's probably not all that important.

 

[Protoman200X]

It is illegal to make a new movie or show that is not based on an existing IP.

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No, but logistics dictate that a previous IP that had some presence in popular culture (or a degree of success) would be the go-to's for revamps. Remember, for every indie darling, there's a need of the "Nuke 'em Until They Glow" Summer Spectacular's.

 

[bionic77]

There's something beautiful about a self-contained one-off story with a beginning, middle, and end that provides internally all the elements it needs to execute successfully.

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For the fans I agree. I would much rather see new shit that is self contained. If you can do it in less time then do it.

But for the shareholders it is far more compelling to release endless sequels and making a lot of money along the way.

 

[El Bombastico]

Barring the massive exception that is the MCU, it really does seem that the fanboys taking control on the franchises they loved was the worst thing that ever happened for precisely this and a dozen other reasons.

 

[Sacrilicious]

I'm all for expanded universes but I think they should mainly help in world building, not storytelling.

Unless there is a very good reason, the actual story should be as self-contained as possible. The expanded universe is there to add richness and a deeper understanding of the world. I think it's best treated as an appendix, somewhere you can for go for details that are interesting but not required to follow the story being told.

 

[BasilZero]

I dont think they are doing enough. Gimme the deets!

 

[Deleted member 25606]

My rule on expanded universes and side content is "do you need to know this to understand the main text?" If the answer is no I like it at times. A good example on my mind is MHA. The vigilantes book and the movies are fun times, expand both the universe and characters, and is great for origin stuff. For instance if you want to know how Stain became the hero killer stain vigilantes has that answer.

However none of it is mandatory, not engaging with any of it will not lessen your experience with MHA manga or anime, it just gives you more of what you already like.

But when the answer is yes it's usually trash and is usually a result of A. A shit story (new Star Wars, kingdom hearts) that's either convoluted or the side stuff meant to plug holes in the work but it usually causes more, or B. reaching to remain relevant (Harry Potter).

So yeah my golden rule is you should never have to do side stuff and why I supported MCU not acknowledging the shows and think disney may be making a mistake.

 

[Servbot24]

To tell good stories, yeah. A good story doesn't need pointless lore.

 

[Halbrand]

This was more of a problem with the Star Wars prequels

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

It kinda sucks, if people are not interested in that medium.

For .hack//G.U. the whole prequel story to understand the motivations of the main characters is told in a prequel anime.

In Danganronpa, the (second) anime between 2 and 3 actually is kinda necessary to understand what happens in 3....
Then for Danganronpa Danganronpa Zero, a light novel, is actually needed to know the full Danganronpa story.
Also the spinoff game is actually needed to understand, along with the light novel, what the big event that started all of this actually was...

 

[Deleted member 59109]

This was more of a problem with the Star Wars prequels

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I think it's a pretty big problem now, with all the Rebels/Clone Wars characters tying into other films.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I think it's a pretty big problem now, with all the Rebels/Clone Wars characters tying into other films.

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Agree.

 

[Stooge]

Halo 5 had this in spades. You need to read a shitload of books and videos to know who the characters or plot is

 

[Spork4000]

Depends on the franchise, but hell yes at Star wars, but that might be them trying to retroactively explain a bad movie.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

With Star Wars the expanded stuff(Rebels, Clone Wars, Lost Stars) is usually better than any of the main stuff imo.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I'm all for expanded universes but I think they should mainly help in world building, not storytelling.

Unless there is a very good reason, the actual story should be as self-contained as possible. The expanded universe is there to add richness and a deeper understanding of the world. I think it's best treated as an appendix, somewhere you can for go for details that are interesting but not required to follow the story being told.

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Yeah, I think it's fine if the side content stays on the side, so those who want to dive deeper can, while the main narrative is self-contained. Knowing the extra stuff can then pay off with, like, Easter eggs and B/C-plot threads.

I actually think Harry Potter and Star Wars handle this pretty well. You don't have to know any of the extra stuff to get the main story. In Star Wars' case, the side stuff adds to the richness, and in HP, well, it doesn't, but that's okay.

Meanwhile, you have things like Kingdom Hearts, where if you go straight from 2 to 3, you know jack shit about what's going on. The argument is that all the in-between games aren't side content, but they sure are labeled as if they are

 

[SaintBowWow]

The only things that come to mind that really for this to be are overly convoluted JRPGs like Kingdom Hearts or FFXV. Most other examples of this are entirely optional expanded universe fluff that hardcore fans think is required reading. Hell, even like half of the MCU isn't required for understanding the main Infinity plot.

 

[molnizzle]

Halo really bungled this up starting with 4. I wish 343 would just reboot it at this point.

 

[Ryan.]

I really don't see the big deal. I also think if you're limiting yourself to "mainline" stories then it's at the fault of the viewer/reader.

 

[nullref]

I feel kind of the opposite, that it's less that the storytellers are too reliant on this extratextual material, but instead that a certain segment of the fanbases are so interested in lore and explanations that it undermines their ability to just appreciate story, character, and themes, and tolerate some mystery. And then the media properties look to cater to that demand—because it's profitable to do so. That's of course not to say that every story is well-executed in a stand-alone way—I just think it's misguided to ever look to additional lore or explanations or backstory as a fix. If a story doesn't work, there's usually something faulty in it's dramatic construction that no amount of extra information will address.

But I ultimately can't help but feel like these settings, worlds, and backstories would usually be better left as the backdrop they were designed to be, because endlessly mining them for more material just ruins their illusion, robs them of their mystery. It becomes like endlessly regurgitating the re-consuming the same meal. The impulse to strip-mine the stories they love in this way is, for me, one of the least appealing things about fan culture. But to each their own I guess; I can and largely do just ignore it.

But sure, if you're talking about a case where I need to have read some shitty interstitial novel to even understand the plot of the sequel to some videogame I liked—then yeah, that's going too far.

 

[Halbrand]

I think it's a pretty big problem now, with all the Rebels/Clone Wars characters tying into other films.

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It was definitely a problem in Solo. Rogue One works perfectly fine without knowing who Saw Gerrara is though.

Halo 5 had this in spades. You need to read a shitload of books and videos to know who the characters or plot is

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I'm playing it through the first time and I have no idea what's going on

 

[Stooge]

I'm playing it through the first time and I have no idea what's going on

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I read wiki articles and was like.... Why can't my space Marine just fight the religious zealots and leave the backstory and mystery forerunners a mystery

 

[FreshYoungDoggo]

When everything has to have some "lore" to it you lose out on the ability to tell stories and details through subtext and interpretation.

 

[Punchline]

star wars is the worst offender with this, holy shit.

 

[Harken Raiser]

Yes, but it's not really new. We've been getting expanded universe explanations for decades at this point.