If they aren't declared basic utilities they won't have the same regulations. Doesn't matter whether i have faith or not. You can't just have judges rule on laws that don't exist.
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Apple will terminate all Epic Games dev accounts and tool access on August 28th, Epic filing to halt the termination
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
And I'm sure if more people actually realized that and put their hatred for Epic aside, they would be all for this movement because of the fact Steam wants it done.
Edit: Also, let me get this straight, is there not a Steam app on iOS to where you can purchase and install your games remotely from? I don't have an Apple device but I use the Steam app on my Android pretty frequently to purchase and install games when I am not at home.
Supreme Court it is, since it's about anti-trust in business.
The interpretation of this will need to require Supreme Court.
Valve has no real horse in this race, until they decide to start selling mobile games.
They already operate on an "open" platform. Epic's rhetorical crusade to "lower the standard cut" could have negative financial repercussions for valve.
I'd say they're the most indifferent ones out of all the digital platform holders
This does not look a little old Billionaire fight, this looks to be a proper Trillionaire fight and Tim Sweeny's nothing but a pawn.
Unless Apple bleeds epic dry this is going to the Supreme Court.
So i read some pages of the thread and then just came here and honestly its so fucking unfortunate that 3rd party and indie devs suffer due to Epic and Tim Epic's stunt..all for more revenue and not giving away more share to each other. I don't believe in Epic's narrative and in their honesty about it as they've always used underhanded ways to achieve an objective.
Tim shitting on closed systems and on microsoft before coming with EGS and involving epic in anti-competitive practices like moneyhats and now has started his rhetoric how epic is fighting for all the devs and for their cuts! Apple might be the big bad here but Epic's approach to going about their way to confront apple is so underhanded, shitty and scummy that even people who want to support them in doing something like take down a closed walled garden despite knowing epic houses such a walled garden themselves, can't still support them! Weaponizing young teens and 18 yo's and above peeps on a public slandering campaign against Apple is such a stupid way of doing things that a company like apple that is super conscious about its brand and image in the world had to take such steps against Epic, which honestly is a gotdamn shame because Epic surely won't suffer the most here but the devs....I can't believe that this wasn't within Epic's calculations..they might've even known about this and STILL went through taking such actions against a juggernaut like Apple. So, while obviously Apple takes the blame for going in hard which makes the devs suffer, Epic is also responsible for all of this and then need to be ashamed of themselves. Should've gone through in an another way and not inviting such actions from Apple. Fuck Apple. Fuck Epic. :(
Tim shitting on closed systems and on microsoft before coming with EGS and involving epic in anti-competitive practices like moneyhats and now has started his rhetoric how epic is fighting for all the devs and for their cuts! Apple might be the big bad here but Epic's approach to going about their way to confront apple is so underhanded, shitty and scummy that even people who want to support them in doing something like take down a closed walled garden despite knowing epic houses such a walled garden themselves, can't still support them! Weaponizing young teens and 18 yo's and above peeps on a public slandering campaign against Apple is such a stupid way of doing things that a company like apple that is super conscious about its brand and image in the world had to take such steps against Epic, which honestly is a gotdamn shame because Epic surely won't suffer the most here but the devs....I can't believe that this wasn't within Epic's calculations..they might've even known about this and STILL went through taking such actions against a juggernaut like Apple. So, while obviously Apple takes the blame for going in hard which makes the devs suffer, Epic is also responsible for all of this and then need to be ashamed of themselves. Should've gone through in an another way and not inviting such actions from Apple. Fuck Apple. Fuck Epic. :(
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This is looking incredibly bad for Apple. At this point Apple serves to lose so much more than Epic does to gain, but the inevitable antitrust investigation that will be fed into regardless of what the outcome is has the potential to change the internet, period.
I have no idea how going nuclear helps Apple in that case. This is pretty much exactly what the House Committee criticized them for, and the initial removal of Fortnite was the same. Sticking it to Epic cannot be worth destroying their whole walled garden, so I can't figure what Apple's angle is here aside from jumping in front of legislative crosshairs.
I have no idea how going nuclear helps Apple in that case. This is pretty much exactly what the House Committee criticized them for, and the initial removal of Fortnite was the same. Sticking it to Epic cannot be worth destroying their whole walled garden, so I can't figure what Apple's angle is here aside from jumping in front of legislative crosshairs.
First off a smartphone is not a necessity, second of all Apple has always been a closed garden and to be perfectly honest that is what many enjoy about it.
I'm assuming this could lead to greater impacts down the road for Apple. Ask yourself, what has changed ever since Epic tried to go after Valve/Steam and create a utopia for developers to pay less percentage. All we got out of all of that are some free games and everyone staying with Steam.
My sense is that if they don't go nuclear then they create a precedent. Others will see an opening and start to bypass Apple rules.
Apple is stuck between a rock and hard place. Either enforce their rules fully and risk putting the case in front of the courts, or do nothing and expect a lot more developers to start treating their rules as suggestions.
I think saying all we got out of it was free games and everyone staying with steam is a bit shallow. It isn't like everyone was going to just get rid of their Steam libraries altogether and never use them again. No one in their right mind would be dumb enough for that, but allowing people to have options in places to purchase and play their games has never hurt anyone, but Apple doesn't want to give people options.
You can play on Android, you can play on PC, and you can play the game on consoles. I totally agree it's a shitshow and they are all about control but how is this any different than the console makers who also control content? The point is Apple has created a platform people want to migrate to and they will do what is best for the company to secure that. It is no different than Sony not allowing EA Access or console crossplay or Microsoft Windows games to play with Steam users.
Epic sent all their Fortnite players after Apple to get them to back down. Now Apple's essentially sent every developer who depends on Unreal Engine after Epic to get them to back down.
I want to sell my custom made skin in the Fortnite store. What do you think Epic?
"but Apple doesn't want to give options" you say, as Epic moneyhats games with the sole directive to not put that game on Steam for a year. Both companies are shit when it comes to options.
The Steam app's the same on iOS. Valve doesn't sell mobile games so this doesn't affect them.
Incidentally, Apple's lawyers might request Epic to show their books, and we will find out just how profitable the 12% EGS cut really is. If part of Epic's argument is that Apple's 30% cut is part of their "unreasonable" efforts to maintain a monopoly (presenting EGS as a sole "successful" exception, Apple can totally demand that Epic produce the receipts for those claims.
if Epic wins the case, I don't really expect much to change to be honest. An overwhelmingly majority of consumers are still going to use the App Store and are still going to use Apple's In-App purchasing methods. They are just easier and more convenient. I also don't expect people to side load App Stores as we saw how ineffective that was on Android.
Still, I guess for the sake of competition It's worth the litigation. I just wouldn't expect any real impact.
Still, I guess for the sake of competition It's worth the litigation. I just wouldn't expect any real impact.
Companies don't have to be declared "utilities" for an antitrust review to take the monopoly's impact on the population into account.
And also, I think current US law will back Apple up. I've entirely been arguing that the situation is inherently different between the iPhone vs. a game console, and can't be compared 1:1.
To participate fully in society? Of course it is.
Pretty sure you don't need to be a literal monopoly in order to violate antitrust laws. Afaik this is the case both in the US and EU.
We've had recent examples where you could argue that Apple has used their store to give them unfair advantage over competitors in different fields. I don't know how it'll go in court, but it seems unadvisable for anyone to be speaking in certainties right now.
Yes they are. There are government assistance programs in the US that affords low income houses smart phones because of how vital access to the internet is today.
Epic is like the regular sized giant that keeps slapping the big giant in the back of the head and then puts on the pikachu face when the big giant turns around and gives him the hardest slap in the universe.
Exactly, and haven't we even seen developers come out and state that them getting that exclusive deal with Epic has covered them to basically come out even, even before sales are taken into consideration? If a developer is able to guarantee not come out on a loss on a game due to them signing an exclusive deal, then that is a win. You might hate it as the consumer because you have to use a different store to play it on your same device, but at least your potential dev isn't going to go out of business for it.
Wouldn't that make access to the Internet a necessity?
Why a smartphone? Why not a tablet or a netbook?
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If neither of the devices has special regulations they're 100% comparable as antitrust violations remain anti trust violations.
You should make clear that this is your opinion and in no shape or form a fact.
This is exactly my thoughts, if Apple doesn't push back hard on this, then they have much less of a case to prevent others doing the same in the future.
As much as I don't like Epic or Tim Sweeney, gotta side with them on this case. It doesn't matter if they purposefully violated ToS, since the whole point Epic is trying to make is that - along with being unethical - the section of Apple's ToS they violated should be completely unenforceable.
And while I don't like how they targetted kids, making a public spectacle of court filings to prove a point isn't new. Like, a decent amount of the cases that are taught about growing up - Scopes trial, Plessy v Ferguson, Brown v BoE, etc. - were carefully-engineered public spectacles designed to test legal waters and put public pressure on either the defendant or plaintiff (and yes, I shouldn't have to say it but obviously civil rights and this aren't as comparable, but don't act like Epic is doing something out-of-the-ordinary by making this a circus).
And while I don't like how they targetted kids, making a public spectacle of court filings to prove a point isn't new. Like, a decent amount of the cases that are taught about growing up - Scopes trial, Plessy v Ferguson, Brown v BoE, etc. - were carefully-engineered public spectacles designed to test legal waters and put public pressure on either the defendant or plaintiff (and yes, I shouldn't have to say it but obviously civil rights and this aren't as comparable, but don't act like Epic is doing something out-of-the-ordinary by making this a circus).
I'm literally the last person who would side with Apple in any matter, but in this case I can't help but sympathize with them.
Also, Epic is punching way out of its league. Not only they are a fly in the wall compared to Apple, almost their entire business is at stake here, while it's just shits and giggles for Apple and what they do.
Also, Epic is punching way out of its league. Not only they are a fly in the wall compared to Apple, almost their entire business is at stake here, while it's just shits and giggles for Apple and what they do.
Why do you think that Valve has no interest in selling mobile games, exactly? Ponder it over for a bit.
Dota underlords is on iOS. And I'm pretty sure you can spend money for the battle pass through the ap.
I guess that is where we are today, trying to pay our bills and feed our kids versus sending each other e motes and watching YouTube all day. You're right, never thought of it that way. I'm so grateful now that participation in society means talking on our smartphones in movie theaters and holding it up during concerts.
Why no explanation to how Apple is any different than console makers who are all about walled gardens? There is a reason why people prefer Apple over Android and Windows.
lots of smartphones that undercut the price of a tablet or netbook. Either way you're not receiving calls on those without paying for a phone number from someone even if it's a web solution like skype.
You can't access the internet from a netbook if you can't afford broadband at your home.
EDIT: These programs give you a device and a data plan.
Ah, I see Apple finally decided it's done fucking around.
Have fun, Tim! You deserve every bit of this.
Have fun, Tim! You deserve every bit of this.
I think Epic overestimated the value of Fortnite in Apple's eyes. They believed it would make them immune to the TOS and bring Apple to the negotiating table.
Well, A, of course it's my opinion, I'm the one saying it, and B of course it's a necessity to fully participate in society.
...what? You think smartphones are necessary becuse of "e motes" and YouTube? And who said anything about theaters?
Smartphones are now our society's primary way of accessing information, communicating, and (soon) engaging in commerce. They are a required part of engaging fully with modern society.
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Fortnite is on so many other devices that Apple may well feel themselves able to stand their ground and refuse to budge. I don't think Epic will get anywhere with the legal battle - they just whacked a wasp nest repeatedly.
Necessity in terms of daily living and communications, but for playing games? Nope.
According to whom? You? Sorry but your opinion doesn't hold up in you court.
There is no legally binding law or regulations giving smartphones regulations like water or electricity
