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Apple has said that it will not let Epic Games re-apply to the Apple Developer Program for at least one year.
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
UE is maintained by a separate account that was protected by the court. Apple can't touch it unless it has its own violation.
Pretty much. Almost every post feels like the poster is trying to think about all the potential negatives for Epic and isn't stopping at all to consider why they might've let these things happen. If that dev account was so important to them, they would've used the grace period to fix it.
Epic is willing to tank this because it strengthens their case. Part of their point is that Apple shouldn't really be able to do this.
What has Apple done wrong regarding the whole Epic issue? You may not like Apple for other unrelated things (and I'm the same) but for this case they're completely in the right.
The fact that this is currently allowed/in the right is what Epic is challenging. They're arguing it breaks antitrust.
That's also why they're sitting and taking everything. They believe moves like this are further proof Apple has too much power.
What they were thinking was probably this (this is according to numbers I found, link at the end)
On average, Fortnite makes ~33 million on mobile per month with the App Store probably making most of that. (Worth noting here is that Fortnite's mobile income spiked in December, probably a lot of kids spending their Christmas money on it). So the mobile market is a very profitable one but Fortnite made ~1,8 billion in 2019, so it's still "only 22%" (again, we are talking about roughly 400-500 million here so that's still a lot).
We also know that only around 12% of Fortnite's userbase is on iOS/Android but as far as I can tell that has been growing.
So, what I THINK probably happened is that Epic sees iOS still as a somewhat untapped market - or at least a market with growth potential. Right now Epic can eat up the losses it takes from not getting any revenue (tho if you have Fortnite installed, can you still buy things the regular way? I don't know) with the hopes that that will come back if (and that's a big if) they win the lawsuit or get a deal from Apple (which doesn't seem realistic now seeing how ferocious Apple has reacted).
So what might have happened - and this is all complete speculation - is that Epic underestimated how hard Apple would go for them and was probably hoping to have some sort of resolution within a couple of months. Keep in mind that if Epic got a sweetheart deal or wins this they could easily make up the lost money in the coming months and years (because this would obviously also apply to other Epic games on mobile)
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Fortnite’s overall revenue slipped in 2019, but it was still the biggest earner of the year
From $2.4 billion to $1.8 billion
www.theverge.com
Fortnite Mobile Revenue Hits $1 Billion in Two Years
Fortnite generated $44.3 million on mobile in April 2020, its best month since February 2019, Sensor Tower data shows.
This is just me blabbing btw, I don't have any insider knowledge or anything. I'm just trying to make sense of this, like everybody else.
Epic obviously had to know that this would hur their revenue in the short run, they aren't stupid. The question is whether they under/overestimated Apple and their chances to win this.
You still have 0 to gain from Apple winning this
Epic winning would have much wider implications
This is false unless epic lied to the court which i doubt
iOS alone is almost 1/3 of fortnites userbase
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Read Epic’s new, full argument why a court should force Apple to reinstate Fortnite
We’ll see if the judge is swayed on September 28th
www.theverge.com
Oh, that makes this situation even more hilarious.Around a third of the total player base according to Epic, so yeah it would seem to be the biggest.
Read Epic’s new, full argument why a court should force Apple to reinstate Fortnite
We’ll see if the judge is swayed on September 28th
There is a difference between how big the userbase is and how much money they made out of it. I think 12.5% was more or less how much money they made out of iOS (as said by Apple), while 1/3 is the userbase that plays in iOS (and 60% of it exclusively there).This is false unless epic lied to the court which i doubt
iOS alone is almost 1/3 of fortnites userbase
Read Epic’s new, full argument why a court should force Apple to reinstate Fortnite
We’ll see if the judge is swayed on September 28th
Both companies are despicable.
Epic just played this in one of the stupidest ways imaginable and We are seeing the hilarious corporate spanking for such consequences.
He said 12% is the iOS/Android userbase which is not true. I never argued any revenue numbers but if the analyst numbers are correct iOS makes 20-22% revenue of fortnite.
For what I understand they could do that, but they are not allowed to even mention the existence of that site in the app as that also goes against Apple's Terms of Service if the price there is also lower. So that would basically be equal to the move they pulled that got them into this mess, but again, that is if they mention it anywhere in the app, otherwise they could actually do it.
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Yeah but Apple is going to prove in court that people switch from Apple to Android all the time. I'm one of them.
Should have made it a ban for a year and two weeks.
1984 is a year, and two weeks is a fortnight. :P
What no apple not no in the right. this is like antitrust lawsuit 101.
this kind of retaliation kind of proves epic's point that apple has too much power in their monopoly
I don't play fortnite, I don't have an iPhone, I don't even have an epic store account, yet I'm always morbidly curious about the new developments is this situation.
Like, it absolutely is not. Epic has barely outlined anything in their lawsuit for why Apple falls under the Sherman act outside of a simple matter of fact statement as if stating something by itself is an argument.
I'd say it's actually a relief, most developers that get banned from the apple system are not allowed back at all.
Apple charges a 30% fee which is the same as Google Play/Steam/Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo. Do you want the 30% cut to be lower on everything or just Apple?
I know but suspect they will take it up in EU also at one point?
Everything of course.
The shitty thing in all of this like most billionaires who squabble, the regular Joe Shmoe out there is just collateral damage. Now Fortnite fans won't be able to play on IOS devices?
I feel as though people in this thread could use a wider perspective on this whole situation. This is no longer just Epic vs. Apple. Apple's fighting this battle on many, many fronts, which is probably why you see them being as protective of their 30% cut as they are.
Here's a really quick recap of what's happened over the last couple of months:
• Congress investigating App Store as potential monopoly (along with Amazon, FB, and Google)
• Epic vs. Apple over 30% platform cut
• Facebook, Microsoft, Spotify, Amazon being vocal about the same
• Russia looking to reduce platform cut to 20% (I don't believe this has been discussed here before)
• Japan anti-trust regulators investigating App Store policies after dev community complaints (ditto)
Regardless of what your stance on Apple is, and whether you love or hate them, Epic's war against the company has caused a lot of other developers and communities to speak out as well. Again, the implications of this go far beyond just Fortnite, and I get the feeling Epic knows it, which is why they're persisting—because they're one of the very few companies that can afford to take the financial hit and not be "bullied" into backing down.
Here's a really quick recap of what's happened over the last couple of months:
• Congress investigating App Store as potential monopoly (along with Amazon, FB, and Google)
• Epic vs. Apple over 30% platform cut
• Facebook, Microsoft, Spotify, Amazon being vocal about the same
• Russia looking to reduce platform cut to 20% (I don't believe this has been discussed here before)
• Japan anti-trust regulators investigating App Store policies after dev community complaints (ditto)
Regardless of what your stance on Apple is, and whether you love or hate them, Epic's war against the company has caused a lot of other developers and communities to speak out as well. Again, the implications of this go far beyond just Fortnite, and I get the feeling Epic knows it, which is why they're persisting—because they're one of the very few companies that can afford to take the financial hit and not be "bullied" into backing down.
I too am disappointed by a lot of the juvenile and naive takes I see here.
And quite frankly, Apple's behavior here, and this demonstration of their power to the detriment of said hostages is just one of MANY examples that clearly illustrate the dangers they (or any other in their position) pose to a free and open market.
Edit: Someone pointed out that I misread the title. The above is incorrect. Apologies.
Apple is out of control and they need to be spanked until they fucking quit it! The whole deal with capitalism is it's great for growth but then you have to spank the ones that get big and powerful because they almost inevitably start swinging their gorilla dicks around, pissing all over the small people and shitting all over democracy and justice. Controlled growth is what we want. We do not want neutered or captive government agencies like we have now. Hi FCC. Hi EPA.
Capitalism must be muzzled and brought to fucking heel. THAT is the take from all this.
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Every person I see argue in favor of Epic seems to disregard any evidence of wrong doing and then makes a statement how this multi billion dollar company could be them or the little guy developer. You can't argue Epic is for the little guy when there's been articles out there about the mentally harmful perpetual crunch their Fortnite developers have been going through. Not to mention Tim Sweeney's questionable opinions on the banning of Alex Jones from twitter and interacting with alt-right leaning youtube channels like thequartering.
I've yet to see a real argument for why Epic should have intentionally breached their contract. Just, variations of "they're too big to fail", "Apple is the bad guy", "think of the smaller devs", "30% is too much for what amounts to a credit card transaction" (reducing a service with an industry standard cut), etc.
I've yet to see a real argument for why Epic should have intentionally breached their contract. Just, variations of "they're too big to fail", "Apple is the bad guy", "think of the smaller devs", "30% is too much for what amounts to a credit card transaction" (reducing a service with an industry standard cut), etc.