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SixtyFourBlades

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,864
Dismissing the skills of controller players because of aim assist is just them being bitter and immature.

That said, close encounters are really fucking important in Apex. And controller players having an advantage there is significant.
I agree that it's significant for sure, don't get me wrong, but M&K players practically have the advantage in every other situation don't you agree?

Long range/Sniping? M&K players.
Mid range? M&K players.
Looting/Quick swapping? M&K players.
Movement? M&K players (although some controller players can move really good as well, but still not to the level of a pro M&K player).

They have the advantage in basically every facet of the game except for close encounters and outside of some really cracked controller players, which there really aren't a lot of. I just find it funny that they're complaining about aim assist which only provides the advantage in close encounters when they have the advantage in literally everything else the game has to offer lol.
 

Dylan Dogood

Member
Aug 13, 2019
80
Sweden
I agree that it's significant for sure, don't get me wrong, but M&K players practically have the advantage in every other situation don't you agree?

Long range/Sniping? M&K players.
Mid range? M&K players.
Looting/Quick swapping? M&K players.
Movement? M&K players (although some controller players can move really good as well, but still not to the level of a pro M&K player).

They have the advantage in basically every facet of the game except for close encounters and outside of some really cracked controller players, which there really aren't a lot of. I just find it funny that they're complaining about aim assist which only provides the advantage in close encounters when they have the advantage in literally everything else the game has to offer lol.

Sure. I obviously don't want Respawn to remove aim assist either. But I can see the logic behind this being a somewhat unnecessary change that mostly reduces the fun for M&K players, with very little gain for the vast majority of players.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
Lot of people in here get some weird satisfaction out of changes that upset people who are good at the game, which they worked to get good at. Kinda gross imo, disdain for people who put the time in.

As for controller vs. Mnk, sure mnk holds the advantage in a lot of situations, but the disparity isn't that crazy, and close range is how the majority of fights are actually decided, where controller does have the upper hand.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,120
Movement doesn't matter much at the highest level, imo. Snipedown moves like a truck, but he's probably the best, most consistent, controller player out there. Aiming and gamesense is king. So I can somewhat understand the M&K pros frustration right now.

My understanding is that movement does matter when you consider that a well balanced shooter shouldn't have unpredictable movement patterns the way tap strafing does. It's the reason why they didn't include the wall running and double jumping from Titanfall in Apex — it became too erratic and players got frustrated hitting enemies who were double jumping backwards onto ledges and wall running away.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
My understanding is that movement does matter when you consider that a well balanced shooter shouldn't have unpredictable movement patterns the way tap strafing does. It's the reason why they didn't include the wall running and double jumping from Titanfall in Apex — it became too erratic and players got frustrated hitting enemies who were double jumping backwards onto ledges and wall running away.
I think most people considered the removal of wall running and double jumps a negative? At least those who played the Titanfall games, which most didn't
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,120
I think most people considered the removal of wall running and double jumps a negative? At least those who played the Titanfall games, which most didn't

I wouldn't want them in Apex, honestly. The third partying would be insane with players wall running and bunny hopping across the map in 2 seconds.
 

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,893
OR
I think most people considered the removal of wall running and double jumps a negative? At least those who played the Titanfall games, which most didn't
Longtime TF1 and TF2 player, and while it stung at first, it quickly became apparent that the lack of double-jump and wallrunning was a good thing for the health of the playerbase.
 

SixtyFourBlades

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,864
Lot of people in here get some weird satisfaction out of changes that upset people who are good at the game, which they worked to get good at. Kinda gross imo, disdain for people who put the time in.

As for controller vs. Mnk, sure mnk holds the advantage in a lot of situations, but the disparity isn't that crazy, and close range is how the majority of fights are actually decided, where controller does have the upper hand.
I don't get 'satisfaction' from it. I was just pointing out that I found it funny how they were reacting to it because at the of the day tap strafing really isn't something practiced by a lot of players or something that a lot of players encounter so it really doesn't have any effect on the grand scheme of things. The MnK pros are clearly having an overreaction to the announcement. One guy even said he's quitting Apex. Like really?

I was in a PC lobby and died to a guy who tap strafed. I didn't think it was disgusting or anything like how some controller players react to it. I thought it was pretty cool actually. With all that said, it cannot be denied that it's a mechanic that Respawn clearly did not intend to be in the game. Shroud said it himself the first time he saw it. It was going to get removed because it is exactly what Respawn called it: an exploit that you are not able to counter.

With ALL that said, I still find it funny that Respawn is removing tap strafing talking about it's not readable or it has no counter but this is the same company that released Seer the way they did lol.
 

DantesLink

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,979
I wouldn't want them in Apex, honestly. The third partying would be insane with players wall running and bunny hopping across the map in 2 seconds.
Agreed, was big into TF2 and would drop Apex in a heartbeat if TF3 ever dropped. While not having them was a bitter pill to swallow at launch, I absolutely understand and agreed why those were taken out.

I don't get 'satisfaction' from it. I was just pointing out that I found it funny how they were reacting to it because at the of the day tap strafing really isn't something practiced by a lot of players or something that a lot of players encounter so it really doesn't have any effect on the grand scheme of things. The MnK pros are clearly having an overreaction to the announcement. One guy even said he's quitting Apex. Like really?
Also agreed. There's definitely a discussion about it that I'm willing to have, but that shouldn't stop me from pointing and laughing at these temper tantrums. People are acting like they removed something as fundamental as slide-hopping and are also using the opportunity to throw controller players under the bus yet again.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
I don't get 'satisfaction' from it. I was just pointing out that I found it funny how they were reacting to it because at the of the day tap strafing really isn't something practiced by a lot of players or something that a lot of players encounter so it really doesn't have any effect on the grand scheme of things. The MnK pros are clearly having an overreaction to the announcement. One guy even said he's quitting Apex. Like really?

I was in a PC lobby and died to a guy who tap strafed. I didn't think it was disgusting or anything like how some controller players react to it. I thought it was pretty cool actually. With all that said, it cannot be denied that it's a mechanic that Respawn clearly did not intend to be in the game. Shroud said it himself the first time he saw it. It was going to get removed because it is exactly what Respawn called it: an exploit that you are not able to counter.

With ALL that said, I still find it funny that Respawn is removing tap strafing talking about it's not readable or it has no counter but this is the same company that released Seer the way they did lol.
I wasn't saying you specifically where deriving satisfaction from it, but others in here were for sure.

People play games for plenty of reasons, people quit for plenty or reasons, it's not really up to me or anyone else to decide what that is for someone.

I am not someone who really cares for the intention of the developer, they are far from perfect and all knowing, as I'm sure you'll agree. Also Shroud barely plays the game.

The counter is just shoot them lol. They don't wraith phase and become intangible
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,725
momwife.club
I think respawn has lost the trust and respect of the apex player base and if they want to win people back they need to give fuse a catboy skin
 

btkadams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,317
I think most people considered the removal of wall running and double jumps a negative? At least those who played the Titanfall games, which most didn't
I loved Titanfall but yeah I'm with the others saying Apex doesn't necessarily need the wall running. There's a different flow to Apex and I think it works very well. Double jumps are also sort of in the game with jump pads. Maybe we could see specific surfaces in the new map that people can wall run on or something, who knows. I don't think the game needs it though.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,120
Longtime TF1 and TF2 player, and while it stung at first, it quickly became apparent that the lack of double-jump and wallrunning was a good thing for the health of the playerbase.

Also, the wall running and double jumping was a design choice so you could evade Titans shooting at you. It was genius for Titanfall but yeah, in Apex it just has no space or reasoning for it.
 

Sunnz

Member
Apr 16, 2019
1,251
Why is it so hard for people to NOT shoot as soon as they see someone...
Like why are you shooting at a full enemy squad with your r 99 120 meter away when we are not close to you even...

Certain characters always just charging
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Lot of people in here get some weird satisfaction out of changes that upset people who are good at the game, which they worked to get good at. Kinda gross imo, disdain for people who put the time in.

As for controller vs. Mnk, sure mnk holds the advantage in a lot of situations, but the disparity isn't that crazy, and close range is how the majority of fights are actually decided, where controller does have the upper hand.

I do find funny that top streamers get upset at changes. They are the minority of the playerbase and can't expect the game to always appeal to their specific needs and tastes. If they are good at the game, this shouldn't break it.

In Battlefield V, for example, the original game was very attrition based. Low count of ammo, a balanced TTK, everything making a very tense combat system. The "ambassadors", streamers and top players, got frustrated that they always ran out of ammo and couldn't keep their kill streaks which wasn't fun for them. After the beta, DICE changed it. The game began losing their vision, and, well, then started a series of good and bad decisions trying to please everyone. Streamers and top players are an important part of the playerbase for different reasons, but you can't always do things in their favor. If a change actually levels the player field, then it's a good change.
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
I made it to Plat the other day and immediately stopped playing ranked. It's too stressful, I hate the entry cost idea, it completely ruins plat and above imo. It does nothing to deter the idiots from hot dropping and only serves to penalize me as a solo player.
 

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
I made it to Plat the other day and immediately stopped playing ranked. It's too stressful, I hate the entry cost idea, it completely ruins plat and above imo. It does nothing to deter the idiots from hot dropping and only serves to penalize me as a solo player.

It's not worth it unless you have a party, and that in itself is garbage. Should really be splitting solo players and parties into their own games, with a toggle if you want to play in either group if you're solo.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,120
I made it to Plat the other day and immediately stopped playing ranked. It's too stressful, I hate the entry cost idea, it completely ruins plat and above imo. It does nothing to deter the idiots from hot dropping and only serves to penalize me as a solo player.

Try not to focus on the RP once you hit plat. You can't get de-ranked to Gold once you're there so you might as well play aggressively and try to get as many kills as possible. The long road through plat is to rat it out and it's no fun. I used to advise against it but just drop hot and try to get 2-3 kills fast. If you happen to make it out of the first drop you'll get a lot of RP by the time you hit 8 squads left.

In short - it's impossible to solo rat to Diamond so play aggressive.
 

Avik-G

alt account
Banned
Jul 27, 2021
849
Why is it so hard for people to NOT shoot as soon as they see someone...
Like why are you shooting at a full enemy squad with your r 99 120 meter away when we are not close to you even...

Certain characters always just charging

Playing Plat soloq. 2 of us die. We ask the third guy to rat and try to get banners. Guy hides for 10 seconds. Sees someone Harvester crafting and empties a clip of Volt from the respawn beacon on hill. Hits for 20. Gets chased and dies.

There is no other game that makes me hate my random team mates like Apex does. LOL.
 

BloodHound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,007
I made it to Plat the other day and immediately stopped playing ranked. It's too stressful, I hate the entry cost idea, it completely ruins plat and above imo. It does nothing to deter the idiots from hot dropping and only serves to penalize me as a solo player.
I've solo q'd to Diamond 3 before the split. I know people here who have solo q'd to masters. The tip is, once you get to platinum you have to play aggressive while keeping your survivability high. Your teammates are going to do w/e they do, its just important that you get kills and know how to disengage and survive when you are losing an encounter.

I haven't played in a couple of months and I'm now in Plat 3, still making my way up slowly.
 

hordak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,540
Anaheim, CA
Why is it so hard for people to NOT shoot as soon as they see someone...
Like why are you shooting at a full enemy squad with your r 99 120 meter away when we are not close to you even...
Certain characters always just charging

There is no other game that makes me hate my random team mates like Apex does. LOL.
So we had a fierce fight near bunker and the Bloodhound on my team gets massacred so i spawn them. And then another team comes up from the distance and instead of running into the Bunker to heal and get into the ring, the Bloodhound runs out by themself and then get massacred yet again and then logs off.

This happens quite a lot, usually with Wraith, Octane and Bangalore. Also i always get teammates that refuse to scan the survey beacon, refuse to replicate, and sometimes get a Loba that refuses to open a black market.

People just fucking suck.
 

Selbran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,570
I played a match last night where one of my teammates was AFK, and the other dropped on a spot with a full team and then raged when I wasn't willing to risk the RP loss to same him. The AFK teammate eventually came back 8 minutes later and said he didn't know he qued up for another game, but I was pretty pissy at him because you literally have to click the button to ready up.

Somehow ended up winning regardless because the final circle was a 1v1v1 scenario.
 

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
The only tip to worry about plat is not to put yourself through it unless you cheese it with a squad.
 

El Toporo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,122
I like Plat, but solo bad days can cost you dearly. Had one day where I felt like I was in a grinder recently. Just trash match after trash match.
I never found my footing that day.
 

Cyborg009

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,242
Is anyone noticing lag/frame issues during team fights? This is going so damn frustrating for me now on PC.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
I do find funny that top streamers get upset at changes. They are the minority of the playerbase and can't expect the game to always appeal to their specific needs and tastes. If they are good at the game, this shouldn't break it.

In Battlefield V, for example, the original game was very attrition based. Low count of ammo, a balanced TTK, everything making a very tense combat system. The "ambassadors", streamers and top players, got frustrated that they always ran out of ammo and couldn't keep their kill streaks which wasn't fun for them. After the beta, DICE changed it. The game began losing their vision, and, well, then started a series of good and bad decisions trying to please everyone. Streamers and top players are an important part of the playerbase for different reasons, but you can't always do things in their favor. If a change actually levels the player field, then it's a good change.
I mean plenty of lower level players also complain about shit, they just have way less perspective on the overall game, and it's not as broadcasted, unless your looking at reddit.

Also they are good at the game, there's really no debate there, the game has just become less fun overall for them, and suddenly not being able to do fun things is a feels bad.

I'm curious on how this will actually level the playing field? Due to sbmm, or whatever version of this they have pub matches should usually be more competitive and people not great at the game won't encounter them, and even without tap strafing they would have never stood a chance. These players are also high ranked so unless they are smurfing it's no big issue there either.

If your idea of leveling the playing field is putting easy to use op weapons in the game (such as pre care pack spitfire) or broken characters ala seer, then I am in total disagreement.

Tap strafing may have been unintentional, but I fail to see why that must be viewed as a negative. The game is evolving overtime, due to the players, and there's a beauty in that.

This is something the devs decided for themselves, there was no major outcry for the removal of tap strafe, low level players weren't cowering in fear of people Matrix dashing at them, they are too busy looting for 10 minutes and dying to ring. That's not a slight, just an example of the difference we are talking here.

Apex has always been the movement BR, above everything else I have ever heard anyone talk about or what I've seen other people say when I seek out others opinions, it's always the movement that has made it stand out. So I can't say I see anything that goes against the team's vision, muddy and vague as that vision is.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
I mean plenty of lower level players also complain about shit, they just have way less perspective on the overall game, and it's not as broadcasted, unless your looking at reddit.

Also they are good at the game, there's really no debate there, the game has just become less fun overall for them, and suddenly not being able to do fun things is a feels bad.

I'm curious on how this will actually level the playing field? Due to sbmm, or whatever version of this they have pub matches should usually be more competitive and people not great at the game won't encounter them, and even without tap strafing they would have never stood a chance. These players are also high ranked so unless they are smurfing it's no big issue there either.

If your idea of leveling the playing field is putting easy to use op weapons in the game (such as pre care pack spitfire) or broken characters ala seer, then I am in total disagreement.

Tap strafing may have been unintentional, but I fail to see why that must be viewed as a negative. The game is evolving overtime, due to the players, and there's a beauty in that.

This is something the devs decided for themselves, there was no major outcry for the removal of tap strafe, low level players weren't cowering in fear of people Matrix dashing at them, they are too busy looting for 10 minutes and dying to ring. That's not a slight, just an example of the difference we are talking here.

Apex has always been the movement BR, above everything else I have ever heard anyone talk about or what I've seen other people say when I seek out others opinions, it's always the movement that has made it stand out So I can't say I see anything that goes against the team's vision, muddy and vague as that vision is.

It is the movement BR, so when you have cross play and a movement that's very high level that can't be pulled off in other platforms, you are leveling the player field by removing it. This is something that only matters in higher levels of play with those a bit below those higher levels of play.

It's not very different than removing an exploit. If they are good at the game, and they are, a change like this shouldn't be a problem. But it is because it affects their streams, montages, etc. The game will still be basically the same for what, 95% of the player base? And for those that are only edged out by these type of things in top level matches, the game will be even more challenging.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
It is the movement BR, so when you have cross play and a movement that's very high level that can't be pulled off in other platforms, you are leveling the player field by removing it. This is something that only matters in higher levels of play with those a bit below those higher levels of play.

It's not very different than removing an exploit. If they are good at the game, and they are, a change like this shouldn't be a problem. But it is because it affects their streams, montages, etc. The game will still be basically the same for what, 95% of the player base? And for those that are only edged out by these type of things in top level matches, the game will be even more challenging.
Console only ever matches with PC if you are queuing with a PC player. PC tap strafing masters playing at 240fps aren't being matched with Bobby on his new switch.

It's not just about being better, it's a fun and cool thing to do. They enjoy it and the people watching enjoy it. I'm a damn console player but damn if that stuff isn't impressive.

If the change is so minor most of the player base won't feel it why then the need to make the change? What is gained by the removal?

Sure the the competition is now closer between those who couldn't and those who could, because you have now removed a factor that could set players apart. Now I don't know about you but handicapping the competition in the name of fairness doesn't sit right with me.

They don't want the game to be harder, they want to win, who wants to make it harder? That's one reason to learn the technique, because mastering it gives you an advantage, which makes the game easier.

More options means more things to master, thus increasing the skill ceiling, the game is going to be less dynamic now in these situations, a possible escape or outmaneuver is now a sure death scenario, that seems plainly less interesting to me.

You can remove options, and there is still skill to be found, but if you continue to do so eventually you just end up with a game of RPS.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Console only ever matches with PC if you are queuing with a PC player. PC tap strafing masters playing at 240fps aren't being matched with Bobby on his new switch.

It's not just about being better, it's a fun and cool thing to do. They enjoy it and the people watching enjoy it. I'm a damn console player but damn if that stuff isn't impressive.

If the change is so minor most of the player base won't feel it why then the need to make the change? What is gained by the removal?

Sure the the competition is now closer between those who couldn't and those who could, because you have now removed a factor that could set players apart. Now I don't know about you but handicapping the competition in the name of fairness doesn't sit right with me.

They don't want the game to be harder, they want to win, who wants to make it harder? That's one reason to learn the technique, because mastering it gives you an advantage, which makes the game easier.

More options means more things to master, thus increasing the skill ceiling, the game is going to be less dynamic now in these situations, a possible escape or outmaneuver is now a sure death scenario, that seems plainly less interesting to me.

You can remove options, and there is still skill to be found, but if you continue to do so eventually you just end up with a game of RPS.

So removing an exploit in the name of competition wouldn't sit right?

This isn't about low level play. Bobby playing on the Switch has nothing to do with this. Not every top player plays on a PC at 240fps either. Not even all of them with a KBM on PC. They are indeed leveling that player base. They are removing a movement that is disruptive. It is very interesting that you, at the same time, mention that they don't want the game harder, however, that increasing the skill ceiling is a good thing. Increasing the skill ceiling is making the game harder to master. Removing disruptive movements is, on it's own way, modifying the skill ceiling, meaning that you can't win by movement exploits but you have to be good at the game. So if all the complaints they have is about a selfish desire of keeping the game harder for the other minimal playerbase competing at their level, then I really can't care about it.

Remember when they removed the incesant jumping on Path's ultimate? Same freaking complaints.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
So removing an exploit in the name of competition wouldn't sit right?

This isn't about low level play. Bobby playing on the Switch has nothing to do with this. Not every top player plays on a PC at 240fps either. Not even all of them with a KBM on PC. They are indeed leveling that player base. They are removing a movement that is disruptive. It is very interesting that you, at the same time, mention that they don't want the game harder, however, that increasing the skill ceiling is a good thing. Increasing the skill ceiling is making the game harder to master. Removing disruptive movements is, on it's own way, modifying the skill ceiling, meaning that you can't win by movement exploits but you have to be good at the game. So if all the complaints they have is about a selfish desire of keeping the game harder for the other minimal playerbase competing at their level, then I really can't care about it.

Remember when they removed the incesant jumping on Path's ultimate? Same freaking complaints.
The difference here is that I do consider tap strafing to be part of the game, and I'm not drawing any arbitrary lines between about what already exists in the game, plus in my view the game would be lesser without it. Referring to it as an exploit makes it seem like some cheat or glitch that breaks the game.

Should we start capping frame rates as well? maybe PC controller players can only queue with other PC controller players, in the name of leveling the player base as you say.

Tap strafing isn't some miracle technique that guarantees you a win, just another facet of movement that has been getting more attention.

You don't see mastering tap strafing as contributing to a higher skill ceiling but do think the removal would increase it somehow? I suppose if you have a pre-defined definition of what the game is supposed to be, maybe.

So is it that you don't care about the changes, or that you don't care for the people opposed to those changes? Cause you seem to be pretty clearly on one side of this.

Its not about making it harder for others, dunno where that train of thought came from, but your own ability to play and express yourself.

The zipline changes were needed for the funky endgame zipline hopping, those same issues don't apply to tap strafing.
Instead of complaining about tap strafing perhaps they should consider improving their aim lmao
I'm not sure if this is referring to people compaining about the removal of tap strafing or people just complaining about people who tap strafe, cuz honestly it works for both lol.
 

Avik-G

alt account
Banned
Jul 27, 2021
849
Appreciate the tips on platinum everyone, I might dive in tonight to see how that goes.

Know when to disengage. Not every fight has to be finished, its ok to run away if the odds turn shitty.

If you are solo q'ing, understand you will have to let teammates who make shitty decisions die. I lost so many games because I tried to force with them or went for their banners. Stick with your team as much as you can but play selfishly if they are playin stupidly.

Pick up "poke" weapons. G7, 3030, DMR etc are great for getting opening kills at range so you can force a fight but even more importantly they can get you assists from long range if two teams are fighting.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,120
Know when to disengage. Not every fight has to be finished, its ok to run away if the odds turn shitty.

If you are solo q'ing, understand you will have to let teammates who make shitty decisions die. I lost so many games because I tried to force with them or went for their banners. Stick with your team as much as you can but play selfishly if they are playin stupidly.

Pick up "poke" weapons. G7, 3030, DMR etc are great for getting opening kills at range so you can force a fight but even more importantly they can get you assists from long range if two teams are fighting.

Poke weapons are a great idea for assists. Also good for killing the last enemy standing after a fight.

Playing Caustic has been great for me this season. Lots of accidental knocks and assists from his canisters - especially fragment. You get that one random enemy who's low on health and he runs into one of my traps and down he goes. Also great for the zip line elevator buildings. Put like 4 at the bottom when there's a fight and it's devastating.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
The difference here is that I do consider tap strafing to be part of the game, and I'm not drawing any arbitrary lines between about what already exists in the game, plus in my view the game would be lesser without it. Referring to it as an exploit makes it seem like some cheat or glitch that breaks the game.

Should we start capping frame rates as well? maybe PC controller players can only queue with other PC controller players, in the name of leveling the player base as you say.

Tap strafing isn't some miracle technique that guarantees you a win, just another facet of movement that has been getting more attention.

You don't see mastering tap strafing as contributing to a higher skill ceiling but do think the removal would increase it somehow? I suppose if you have a pre-defined definition of what the game is supposed to be, maybe.

So is it that you don't care about the changes, or that you don't care for the people opposed to those changes? Cause you seem to be pretty clearly on one side of this.

Its not about making it harder for others, dunno where that train of thought came from, but your own ability to play and express yourself.

The zipline changes were needed for the funky endgame zipline hopping, those same issues don't apply to tap strafing.

I'm not sure if this is referring to people compaining about the removal of tap strafing or people just complaining about people who tap strafe, cuz honestly it works for both lol.

You know who have a predefined definition of what the game is supposed to be? The devs. If the game presents a change that can be ultimately be interpreted as a meta change... you adapt and move on, specially if you're supposed to be good at the game.

The removal of the zipline hoping was received in the same way by the streamers and pro players, it even reduced Pathfinder picking rate. But the game is just fine without it.

And yeah, I don't care about both the change - because it only matters in a very specific level of play - or the top players because of what has been said. It's a meta change, it doesn't break the game, it only affects a very small portion of the playerbase, so, just adapt.

And even then, it's hilarious because the game still has stuff that only exists because of them. You know why we don't have a Wattson buff? Because she's good at the top plays. She has not much use in the "average" games but in upper ranks she's well used and a buff may break the game for that userbase. Removing tap strafing is such a small thing, that affects so little people, that I really find hillarious that they complain about it.
 

Wild Card

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
You know who have a predefined definition of what the game is supposed to be? The devs. If the game presents a change that can be ultimately be interpreted as a meta change... you adapt and move on, specially if you're supposed to be good at the game.

The removal of the zipline hoping was received in the same way by the streamers and pro players, it even reduced Pathfinder picking rate. But the game is just fine without it.

And yeah, I don't care about both the change - because it only matters in a very specific level of play - or the top players because of what has been said. It's a meta change, it doesn't break the game, it only affects a very small portion of the playerbase, so, just adapt.

And even then, it's hilarious because the game still has stuff that only exists because of them. You know why we don't have a Wattson buff? Because she's good at the top plays. She has not much use in the "average" games but in upper ranks she's well used and a buff may break the game for that userbase. Removing tap strafing is such a small thing, that affects so little people, that I really find hillarious that they complain about it.
Yeah and I've already said I don't really care for what the devs visions is, nor should anyone else really. Why silently accept a change that you dislike? Make your opinion heard, devs need feedback from their playerbase, otherwise they make stupid isolated decisions, like when they almost buffed caustic a while back, or the entire seer launch. I've heard rumors about a gibby buff to make him more appealing to casuals, the strongest character in the game getting a buff, imagine.

Wattson is not meta at any level, the devs are just obsessed with statistics and the reason her win rate is so high becuase is she is a defensive character and they only people who still use her are Wattson mains who are both good and play to her strengths. That's the reason she hasn't gotten a buff, apparently they are planning some kind or rework but we'll see how that goes. As for breaking shit for the high level playerbase, I don't think they care much about it, once again considering Seer. Or the Revtane Combo, or Caustic, a Wattson buff in comparison to any of those is very minor

The best players are always going to be the ones discovering things and shaping the meta, that's the natural flow of things. If you're affected it's only natural you might have an opinion on it, hell I am not in any way affected, as far as my own gameplay goes, and I am against it. Is it a regular thing for you that you laugh when people are upset that something has negatively affected them?
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Yeah and I've already said I don't really care for what the devs visions is, nor should anyone else really. Why silently accept a change that you dislike? Make your opinion heard, devs need feedback from their playerbase, otherwise they make stupid isolated decisions, like when they almost buffed caustic a while back, or the entire seer launch. I've heard rumors about a gibby buff to make him more appealing to casuals, the strongest character in the game getting a buff, imagine.

Wattson is not meta at any level, the devs are just obsessed with statistics and the reason her win rate is so high becuase is she is a defensive character and they only people who still use her are Wattson mains who are both good and play to her strengths. That's the reason she hasn't gotten a buff, apparently they are planning some kind or rework but we'll see how that goes. As for breaking shit for the high level playerbase, I don't think they care much about it, once again considering Seer. Or the Revtane Combo, or Caustic, a Wattson buff in comparison to any of those is very minor

The best players are always going to be the ones discovering things and shaping the meta, that's the natural flow of things. If you're affected it's only natural you might have an opinion on it, hell I am not in any way affected, as far as my own gameplay goes, and I am against it. Is it a regular thing for you that you laugh when people are upset that something has negatively affected them?

So I should care about the streamers/pro players vision and dismiss the devs one? Yeah, not gonna happen.

They are free to voice their opinions and I'm free to voice mine. This change largely doesn't change the game for 90+% of the playerbase, but I can see it being a good change for some people in allowing different types of control being more equal, or people with better aim having a better time that people who mastered spamming AD.

This type of change is like when competitive Pokemon started to give the info on the type effectiveness, ammount of turns left of field modifiers and tracking ups and downs of stats. It made it easier to actually focus on what the game is about. People that aren't good at taking notes or with perfect memory are able to go against to players that do. It levels the playerfield, even though for some it "lowered the skill ceiling".

Complaining about this type of stuff is effectively gatekeeping so yeah, It's a regular thing that I'm against gatekeeping attitudes. "Oh no, I'm sorry you never mastered tap strafing, but I'm good at it so either git gud or bust" *sighs*. It's good that devs pay attention to the playerbase, but the playerbase is super diverse and big. Being a streamer/pro player and feeling practically entitled to be heard because of your position and that somehow the game should appeal to them above everything else, yeah, I hope the devs take their feedback with a grain of salt.
 

SixtyFourBlades

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,864
Yeah and I've already said I don't really care for what the devs visions is, nor should anyone else really. Why silently accept a change that you dislike? Make your opinion heard, devs need feedback from their playerbase, otherwise they make stupid isolated decisions, like when they almost buffed caustic a while back, or the entire seer launch. I've heard rumors about a gibby buff to make him more appealing to casuals, the strongest character in the game getting a buff, imagine.
While I agree on a minimal level, this almost sounds like borderline entitlement to me. Not saying that was your intention, but that's how it comes off. Devs definitely need to listen to the feedback of their base sure, but at the end of the day it's still their game, not ours. They can introduce a Legend that has wall running and a Titan tomorrow if they wanted to, and we wouldn't be able to do a thing about it outside of not supporting the game anymore. That is their right to make the changes, and it's also our right to decide if we rock with those changes or not. At the end of the day, it is a small but vocal minority here that really care about tap strafing. The devs have made their choice. They can either stick around or drop it. Either way Apex is gonna thrive because the removal of tap strafing isn't something that even affects the rest of the 95% of the player base.