I agree it's stupid to say, but I think they were trying to make a joke out of it, is my point. Bad timing no contest.
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Apex Legends developers spark outrage after calling gamers “dicks”, “ass-hats”and “freeloaders”
- Thread starter lush
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I agree it's stupid to say, but I think they were trying to make a joke out of it, is my point. Bad timing no contest.
The thing is for awhile now we have been getting told that it's not EA and the various EA devs continually say that EA is hands off and lets them do what they want. So which is it? If the Dev heads keep telling us EA doesn't make these demands then attacking EA makes no sense. I don't believe this of course and I think this is ALL EA but who am I to challenge what Dice, Bioware and Respawn have said themselves and that is that they pilot the ship not EA.
You need to accept that these videogame companies are trying to make money. It doesn't matter how big or small they are.
The same EA that has a reputation as "killing" companies that aren't making money for them? The same EA that had a flop with Anthem and BFV with little getting hyped lately?
So to get the top event item (the heirloom) you need to spend £130 minimum (buying the most efficient coin packs).
Nuts for a single event.
I was fine dumping money into Apex (and had done) for awhile yet but this really sours it, especially after you can spend £350 getting the last one. These transactions aren't micro. It's absolutely ok to criticise this pricing despite the game being free, especially if you're engaging with it.
Nuts for a single event.
I was fine dumping money into Apex (and had done) for awhile yet but this really sours it, especially after you can spend £350 getting the last one. These transactions aren't micro. It's absolutely ok to criticise this pricing despite the game being free, especially if you're engaging with it.
you know how it goes—when a smaller studio is owned by EA, they never have to make money again. that's why all these big studios keep buying small studios and then keeping them alive forever without budget cuts or layoffs.
These skins don't affect gameplay at all, correct? They're just cosmetic items for personalization, right?
I think the subsequent parenthesis pretty much solidifies it as a non-joke, to be honest.
But eh, it never looks good when a developer tries to guilt trip their players--where a significant margin consists of children--into paying up just because they're playing a game that is free. He could definitely use a better word there, no matter his intentions.
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This comment is representative of the exact sort of shit heel people they're talking about. Go away with those nonsense.
First of all thanks for that! Sorry if I came across as snarky.
To me these people always existed though, ever since the idawnof the internet. If these people just got put on ignore by the devs they woudn't get any ammo though. They are not obliged to communicate with toxic people. What it comes across as to me these days is the devs engaging with these people to paint the entire argument being made as toxic, and it's working looking at this thread. You have people in here that defended their monetization model in other threads using this to deligitimize the other sides argument
Again the Blizzcon guy in resepect to the mobile Diablo game was the perfect example of this in every way, except even him being toxic is debatable.
I can agree with that, the job of a PR person in gaming is getting harder and harder. But what does stooping to their level do? As you said, some of these assholes just wait for a reaction like that. If ignoring doesn't work, they should at least make a distinction between these assholes and people voicing their concerns in a normal manner. But that's not really happening. In this case, they didn't just call the assholes freeloaders. The whole situation is really dumb anyway because they already backtracked on the model and now call people who criticized said model names again. Like...why. Just makes their original apology ring hollow.
Negativity is always louder than positivity, and that's even more apparent in a job like this. I'm just not sure if this mixing up of assholes with everone else is just a genuine human defensive reflex or by design to silence criticism.
Agreed. I edited my earlier post where I said the inevitable assholes popping up is a problem in itself that needs adressing. I just don't agree with bringing it up every single time it occurs, or even sometimes making a mountain out of a molehill, because it's always leading to the original point being lost.
See this is what I don't get. When someone says "the developers fucked up", it's not an attack on an individual. Almost never individuals get called out outside of legit harassment campaigns we saw with Gamergate. If I was a dev I would just not engage in this nonsense, PR people are there for a reason. I get the problem with Indie devs who don't have people relegated just to community issues, but at least when it comes to pricing models indie devs rarely have problems anyway. Especially when the criticism is directed at a genernal thing like monetization (and let's face it, that's the topic more often than not these days), it's unlikely most devs had a say in it outside the higher ups.
Yes, nothing against making money. But their business tactics are disgusting. Especially since they tried to market Apex as 'PapEA going easy with the monetization and letting Respawn do whatever they want'.
+1. At some point when you done everything to appease I think it's fine if some humanity is shown despite having a position where professionality is so important.
Unprofessional, perhaps, but where's the lie? I'm glad they told it like it is. Gamer entitlement and toxicity are at an all-time high. Call a spade a spade.
I read the freeloader remark before this outrage happened and didn't think anything of it, as the dev is clearly being humorous in the post, but I could see how it could be taken as an insult. The rest of the comments aren't a great look for either side though.
I've grown tired of the exploitation that's grown more common in games though, be it alternate currencies to psychologically mask how much money you're spending, rotating store items to give your purchase urgency, or lootboxes that feed gambling addictions (Apex has all three sadly), all just feel so scummy to me at this point, even if they are commonplace now.
I get that it helps devs work and improve games with a consistent source of income instead of the cyclical $60 game launch every 2-4 years, and I'm all for additional ways of gaining revenue, I just wish it could be done ethically and without trying to exploit basic human psychology, particularly in the case of children, but that's more of an issue with mobile games than Apex specifically.
I've grown tired of the exploitation that's grown more common in games though, be it alternate currencies to psychologically mask how much money you're spending, rotating store items to give your purchase urgency, or lootboxes that feed gambling addictions (Apex has all three sadly), all just feel so scummy to me at this point, even if they are commonplace now.
I get that it helps devs work and improve games with a consistent source of income instead of the cyclical $60 game launch every 2-4 years, and I'm all for additional ways of gaining revenue, I just wish it could be done ethically and without trying to exploit basic human psychology, particularly in the case of children, but that's more of an issue with mobile games than Apex specifically.
While personal attacks are too far on an individual, do you guys think "Fuck EA" and "Fuck Respawn" are too far too?
Don't worry, come September and they will make that money many times over with FIFA 20
Punching up is not the same as punching down.
The apologism for devs calling the player base, that they hire psychologists to better make gambling addicts out of, freeloaders is fucking frightening.
It's like the scene from Breaking Bad where Jesse unloads at the self help group.
"You know what - why I'm here in the first place? Is to sell you meth. You're nothing to me but customers."
You know who aren't freeloaders to these devs?
Seriously, fuck this entire predatory industry and their entitlement to people's money via addiction. They aren't creators, they're fucking parasites.
It's like the scene from Breaking Bad where Jesse unloads at the self help group.
"You know what - why I'm here in the first place? Is to sell you meth. You're nothing to me but customers."
You know who aren't freeloaders to these devs?
- Kids who run up their parents credit cards without their knowledge.
- Kids who have been manipulated to beg their parents for V-bucks.
- Kids who are ostracized at school because they can't afford a fancy skin in this digital slot machine.
Seriously, fuck this entire predatory industry and their entitlement to people's money via addiction. They aren't creators, they're fucking parasites.
AAA greed and predatory monetization is at an all time high. Call a spade a spade.
Unprofessional, but they are right. The gaming community is so toxic. Be it Reddit, Twitter, Era, etc.
I would imagine the official forums with the most dedicated fans can get bad when they don't like what you're doing.
No.
I would imagine the official forums with the most dedicated fans can get bad when they don't like what you're doing.
No.
>Makes a F2P game
>People play the game for free
>People don't buy $18 skins
>People don't take part in cosmetic events that cost $200
>YOU'RE A BUNCH OF FREELOADERS (BUT WE LOVE YOUUUUUUUU)
>People play the game for free
>People don't buy $18 skins
>People don't take part in cosmetic events that cost $200
>YOU'RE A BUNCH OF FREELOADERS (BUT WE LOVE YOUUUUUUUU)
I mean it's backlash to the ongoing microtransactions exploitation that's been getting completely out of hand in the industry.
Until government intervention happens outrage and harassment is basically the only tool the exploited have to try and fight back against it. Just ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away by not buying it or quitting the game, the sickness will only continue to spread that way.
This isn't backlash over something like females being an option or other cases like that where the backlash crowd deserves vitriol, its capitalist exploitation. The devs if they stand up to defend it deserve the vitriol that comes their way in that case and need to take it because the exploitation is not ok. It should never have been ok.
Until government intervention happens outrage and harassment is basically the only tool the exploited have to try and fight back against it. Just ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away by not buying it or quitting the game, the sickness will only continue to spread that way.
This isn't backlash over something like females being an option or other cases like that where the backlash crowd deserves vitriol, its capitalist exploitation. The devs if they stand up to defend it deserve the vitriol that comes their way in that case and need to take it because the exploitation is not ok. It should never have been ok.
Holy shit
I said God damn. This is the sort of witty criticism that we should be employing against these companies, not childish insults or outright threats.
Nah, fuck "professionalism", go off King. I fully support developers dragging shit-fuck entitled gamers. I mean look, we agree that loot boxes suck, etc. But I havn't felt the need to buy shit in Apex, and it's still one of the best games of the year. /shrug
Said he remembered when players weren't asshats to developers.
I remember when color swaps and skins weren't $20 bucks a piece.
I remember when color swaps and skins weren't $20 bucks a piece.
fans are not upset about the existence of expensive skins. No one is against Respawn profiting off their game. Fans say "$18 is too much, but at least I can buy it straight up". They are asking for better quality at $18, but the major backlash isnt about this.
They are upset about lootboxes. There are posts by former addicts on the sub begging these companies to stop exploiting people. The reason why the discussion has lost civility is because this is one of many attempts by EA companies to normalize lootbox addiction.
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It was also a time where full blown 60 dollar games weren't offered for free. The play with f2p is that not everyone pays, but those who do can cover a lot of the income(whales)
Holy shit
For all the "it's just cosmetics" crowd here, do yourself a favor and watch this video. Probably Jim's best video on the matter, with testimonies of people affected by "harmless cosmetics MTX"
They knew the monetization would be received this way. "We have psychologists" blah blah just proves that they knew exactly what they were doing and figured there was a 50/50 chance that this would either go unnoticed because of built-up goodwill or explode, and the gamble would be worth it either way because $
I have many issues with all of this. Respawn deserve a lot of the criticism they have received recently for their terrible monetisation "strategy" and the ridiculously hostile guy that couldn't spell needs to learn some manners and tips on how to talk like a rational, normal human being. It's easy to tar all people with the same "gamers are entitled and toxic" brush and lately that would appear to be the case but it's more representative of our society today and how the internet has gotten completely out of control rather than anything specifically isolated to gamers themselves.
You look at any "fandom" and see how the conversation goes. You have that insane youtube/instagram influencer culture where people are regularly going nuts over the slightest bit of drama, telling people to kill themselves and the whole <insert random person here> is CANCELLED etc etc. Kids at school are targeted for bullying and harassment far more than they were before the internet gave people the tools to completely infiltrate someones entire life.
It's basically shitty all around, none of this is exclusive to gamers. Then on the other side of the track we have developers and publishers using every greedy, horrible psychological trick in the book to pray on people's weaknesses and extract as much cash as possible from people. To that developer who remembered the "good old times"? Yeah, we remember too, when games were released as a whole package, didn't need constant day 1 patches to make things playable, didn't charge for cheat codes, didn't make you pay stupidly large amounts of money for cosmetic nonsense, the list goes on. In this respect Respawn can respectfully fuck right off. They released a game using the "whale" model where they themselves admit that they get the most revenue from exploiting whales and deliberately pushing out skin events that go way over the top hoping people don't kick up too much of a fuss that they have to "walk it back" after some "soul searching". If you release a game like that you don't get to sit on some sort of high horse, you're part of the problem.
In short: People are dicks, but that's always been the case, the internet just makes that voice that much louder. Publishers are dicks, but that's always been the case, lately they have just taken it so far that the internet is pushing back hard.
You look at any "fandom" and see how the conversation goes. You have that insane youtube/instagram influencer culture where people are regularly going nuts over the slightest bit of drama, telling people to kill themselves and the whole <insert random person here> is CANCELLED etc etc. Kids at school are targeted for bullying and harassment far more than they were before the internet gave people the tools to completely infiltrate someones entire life.
It's basically shitty all around, none of this is exclusive to gamers. Then on the other side of the track we have developers and publishers using every greedy, horrible psychological trick in the book to pray on people's weaknesses and extract as much cash as possible from people. To that developer who remembered the "good old times"? Yeah, we remember too, when games were released as a whole package, didn't need constant day 1 patches to make things playable, didn't charge for cheat codes, didn't make you pay stupidly large amounts of money for cosmetic nonsense, the list goes on. In this respect Respawn can respectfully fuck right off. They released a game using the "whale" model where they themselves admit that they get the most revenue from exploiting whales and deliberately pushing out skin events that go way over the top hoping people don't kick up too much of a fuss that they have to "walk it back" after some "soul searching". If you release a game like that you don't get to sit on some sort of high horse, you're part of the problem.
In short: People are dicks, but that's always been the case, the internet just makes that voice that much louder. Publishers are dicks, but that's always been the case, lately they have just taken it so far that the internet is pushing back hard.
I'm just pointing out that the idea that there is a "not greedy" game company out there is a fantasy. All companies are balancing what amount of money they can get vs. what market is willing to bear. Even for games that you deem ethical, it's because they determined that particular business practice was in their best interest.
That's not to to say that you have to buy microtransactions or support games that have monetization practices that you don't agree with. I think it's just important that people realize that making money is the top priority and no developer or publisher will be handing out or discounting stuff because of the kindness of their hearts.
That's what I meant. It's not like game journos aren't doing the same more often than not when something like this pops up. It's the easiest way to deligitimize the other sides argument, by lumping everyone that disagrees with them together with the toxic parts.
Not only that, there's a real danger in targeting individuals as a small handful of people are just batshit crazy and will use their free time to go a step or two further than insults.
I remember that! Back when people actually bought games instead of getting them for free, right?
Honestly, he is right.
I skimmed to the responses to the apology and some of them are just being dicks.
Respawn can charge whatever they want for skins and players can obviously voice their opinions without name calling or offending anyone. If you can't explain why you don't like something without offending the developers then you should be called on it.
I skimmed to the responses to the apology and some of them are just being dicks.
Respawn can charge whatever they want for skins and players can obviously voice their opinions without name calling or offending anyone. If you can't explain why you don't like something without offending the developers then you should be called on it.
So basically they're furious that shiny hats in a free game are too expensive?
More like AAA gaming has gone to shit with their predatory bullshit and the shittier it got, the more often assholes got a chance to get their toxic waste out behind general legitimate criticism.
Fortnite almost certainly does not have a 70% conversion rate.
I'm assuming you got that information from this article: https://lendedu.com/blog/finances-of-fortnite/
That study is good for pointing out what converters are paying for, but is not an adequate measure of actual conversion rate. This is because 3rd party surveys are almost all done with paid user acquisition campaigns (typically through Facebook), which means that only Facebook users who have posted enough about Fortnite for Facebook to associate them with the game will be targeted by the campaign. Past that, they must self-select into the survey, and the result is you have a hyper-engaged audience who is not representative of the actual playerbase.
For reference, when running similar campaigns for products I've worked out, we saw that respondent conversion rate could be up to 10x what the actual global conversion rate was. I would estimate Fortnite's conversion at a maximum of 25%, which is already extremely high.
Yes.
Respawn has put out a free game and is only charging for skins, but gamers are angry because the skins cost too much, and they want to pay less for their skins.
These skins/etc are purely cosmetic.